JustInFudge Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Nothing about his Tampa Bay days? He made that team that Jon Gruden won a championship with. He popularized the Tampa 2. I doubt that he's overrated when you can see the impact that he's left on the game. They were 9-7 in TB, then went 12-4 and won the Super the season he left under Gruden. Pretty sure that Monte Kiffin was the brains behind that D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Like a Who-rE? You can picture me however you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 All this talk about not hiring a "defensive coach" is just nonsense. We need the best candidate who will have a clear vision/plan for the ENTIRE team. I don't care what side of the ball he comes from. This is where Rex really dropped the ball. With his years of experience in trying to destroy offenses he should have been able to "reverse engineer" that knowledge into a plan to help his offense. For instance: - The things that he had trouble game planning against should have been in our offense - He should have crafted a playbook for his QB's with tips on how to beat blitzes Unfortunately they were - the Wildcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 They were 9-7 in TB, then went 12-4 and won the Super the season he left under Gruden. Pretty sure the Monte Kiffin was the brains behind that D. That, and hall of fame players. Sort of like the Ravens used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Unfortunately they were - the Wildcat So true. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 This is precisely why I would prefer a 4-3 defense such as a Tampa 2. You dont have to be super beefy. Demario Davis chased down Vincent Jackson to save the game week 1 last year. That lets me know that if he has to drop back into coverage and play that 3rd cover in a tampa 2 he could do it. You dont really need big and slow, you need fast and a sure tackler to play the Tampa 2 defense. Demario Davis is a fast MLB and I dont see him missing tackles. Not well versed on the Tampa 2 as it applies to the MLB position, so I'll take your word for it. I do know that speed and athleticism is very important in the scheme. We have VERY athletic DLmen and Davis is fast. Defenitely would need a legit FS to fly around the field in addition to quality CB's. Hopefully Milliner gets healthy and improves and McDougle comes in ready to play after a full TC. Revis return would be awesome!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 That, and hall of fame players. Sort of like the Ravens used to be. 2 of which were already on the team before Dungy arrived. (Sapp and Brooks). Though I'll give Dungy credit for finding some strong DB's in the draft during his time in TB. He found both Ronde Barber and Donnie Abraham in the 3rd rounds. Ronde obviously had a tremendous career while Donnie was a good player. Although, at the same time, he cut Al Harris who went on to have a solid career as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I think thats the point, in 1 year, Gruden did what Dungy couldnt. Dungy need how many years with Manning to get just 1? And then the year after he retired Jim Caldwell took the Colts to the SB. OVERRATED!!!!!! Which is unfortunate because I remember Gruden destroyed that team afterwards going 7-9 then 5-11 the following years. To say that in 1 year Gruden did what Dungy couldn't is a bit misleading because I think that if Dungy was the coach of that team that year they would have still won the Super Bowl. They were the best team in the league bar none. Dungy built that team up from scratch. He took over a team that was a laughing stock in 1996 and built it from scratch through the draft. Tony Dungy coached for 13 years and had only 1 losing season. In 13 years of coaching he's missed the playoffs only twice. He has 6 division championships. And mind you, these accolades are spread around both organizations that he coached for, this isn't like Peyton Manning Padded this guy. He created a team from nothing in Tampa. To call him overrated is an extreme overstatement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronx Jet Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I'd be thrilled with Bowles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Just means he's more likely to take the job. Jets are not an attractive job for any HC right now. Crappy owner who meddles, media hates the team, no qb, holes galore. I disagree wholeheartedly. This is a great job for a HC , analogous to Parcells coming in. High draft pick, tons of cap sapce and literally nowhere to go but up. Man you think Woody meddles , I'd hate to see what you think of Jerry Jones. I do agree QB can be an issue , but let's see how the new GM/scouting/HC address that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I want us to hire Bowles... just think of the enema jokes if he sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 They never would have won that championship with Dungy. That was the whole point of firing Dungy. He had zero killer instinct. Gruden got Gruden a championship. Dungy just happened to be the "head coach" when actual head coach Peyton Manning got his ring. To say never is to say that you know, and you dont. They fired him and gave Gruden a Superbowl caliber team and he happened to win it. Thats not like that was some awesome performance on Gruden's behalf. People like Gruden because he's a character like Rex, however, what was Gruden's record the following years with Tampa? F'ing horrible. He was tanking while Dungy was flourishing in Indy and eventually won his title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Which is unfortunate because I remember Gruden destroyed that team afterwards going 7-9 then 5-11 the following years. To say that in 1 year Gruden did what Dungy couldn't is a bit misleading because I think that if Dungy was the coach of that team that year they would have still won the Super Bowl. They were the best team in the league bar none. Dungy built that team up from scratch. He took over a team that was a laughing stock in 1996 and built it from scratch through the draft. Tony Dungy coached for 13 years and had only 1 losing season. In 13 years of coaching he's missed the playoffs only twice. He has 6 division championships. And mind you, these accolades are spread around both organizations that he coached for, this isn't like Peyton Manning Padded this guy. He created a team from nothing in Tampa. To call him overrated is an extreme overstatement. He did not build that team from scratch. lol. The entire nucleus of the defense which is why there were successful was intact when Dungy arrived (minus Barber). He inherited to HOF players in Sapp and Brooks. John Lynch and Hardy Nickerson were already on the team. They went from 9-7 getting bounced in the Wild Card game to 12-4 and won the Super Bowl. What changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Which is unfortunate because I remember Gruden destroyed that team afterwards going 7-9 then 5-11 the following years. To say that in 1 year Gruden did what Dungy couldn't is a bit misleading because I think that if Dungy was the coach of that team that year they would have still won the Super Bowl. They were the best team in the league bar none. Dungy built that team up from scratch. He took over a team that was a laughing stock in 1996 and built it from scratch through the draft. Tony Dungy coached for 13 years and had only 1 losing season. In 13 years of coaching he's missed the playoffs only twice. He has 6 division championships. And mind you, these accolades are spread around both organizations that he coached for, this isn't like Peyton Manning Padded this guy. He created a team from nothing in Tampa. To call him overrated is an extreme overstatement. What Dungy did in Tampa was impressive. I'll certainly give him that. But replacing him with Gruden was absolutely the right call. Those Bucs offenses were absolutely anemic. As for Indy, he just rode the coattails of Peyton Manning. For all the defensive brilliance Dungy may have showed in Tampa, he showed none of it in Indy. Peyton would have more than just the one ring if Tony could have fielded a competent D. He's one of the most over-rated coaches of all time because some people actually put him in the HOF discussion. He did great by turning around a franchise that had sucked for 20 years, but was never able to get over the hump. Then, in his next job, he was a bystander that was made to look good by having the greatest QB of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 They were 9-7 in TB, then went 12-4 and won the Super the season he left under Gruden. Pretty sure that Monte Kiffin was the brains behind that D. Im not looking at one year. The talent on that team was Superbowl talent. Look at Gruden's body of work during his time there. He was their coach for 7 years and only 2 seasons he had 10 or more wins and 3 of those seasons he had losing records. You can say what you want about Dungy but Dungy had that team when they weren't what Gruden had and he had just 1 losing season in his 6 years with the team and thats was his first year, and they made the playoffs 4 out of 6 years. The owner fired a coach that made the team relevant, then gave it to a guy who won a title with the team the prior guy built yet proceeded to run it into the ground and they have yet to recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rillo Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Makes too much sense...Woody won't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Im not looking at one year. The talent on that team was Superbowl talent. Look at Gruden's body of work during his time there. He was their coach for 7 years and only 2 seasons he had 10 or more wins and 3 of those seasons he had losing records. You can say what you want about Dungy but Dungy had that team when they weren't what Gruden had and he had just 1 losing season in his 6 years with the team and thats was his first year, and they made the playoffs 4 out of 6 years. The owner fired a coach that made the team relevant, then gave it to a guy who won a title with the team the prior guy built yet proceeded to run it into the ground and they have yet to recover. Umm, you kind of answered your own query. By the time of Gruden's second season, the nucleus of that team had been together for eight years. Shame on Gruden for not stopping time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Not well versed on the Tampa 2 as it applies to the MLB position, so I'll take your word for it. I do know that speed and athleticism is very important in the scheme. We have VERY athletic DLmen and Davis is fast. Defenitely would need a legit FS to fly around the field in addition to quality CB's. Hopefully Milliner gets healthy and improves and McDougle comes in ready to play after a full TC. Revis return would be awesome!! The Tampa 2 pretty much requires that your MLB be a beast. If not then the scheme simply wont work. He must be fast and he must be a sure tackler. Reason being is that the MLB job is to be the "cover 3" whenever he reads that the offense is passing. Davis has that speed and our linemen have the speed as well to reach the QB in order to indirectly support the passing defense (Richardson, Coples, IK) we have the all around assassin (Wilkerson) and we have the run stuffer (Harrison). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 To say never is to say that you know, and you dont. They fired him and gave Gruden a Superbowl caliber team and he happened to win it. Thats not like that was some awesome performance on Gruden's behalf. People like Gruden because he's a character like Rex, however, what was Gruden's record the following years with Tampa? F'ing horrible. He was tanking while Dungy was flourishing in Indy and eventually won his title. You're forgetting that Gruden got a career year out of Brad Johnson who was pretty terrible the year before with Dungy. Johnson had another good year but it didnt equate to winning the following season....SB hangover? Idk. The D regressed with age and losing Sapp. But they had QB problems after that but Gruden somehow managed to get that team to 11 wins with Chris Simms and Brian Griese after that 5 win season. They had another bad one and then had back to back 9-7 seasons before he retired with Garcia. He got them back to the playoffs twice. That's far from horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 What Dungy did in Tampa was impressive. I'll certainly give him that. But replacing him with Gruden was absolutely the right call. Those Bucs offenses were absolutely anemic. As for Indy, he just rode the coattails of Peyton Manning. For all the defensive brilliance Dungy may have showed in Tampa, he showed none of it in Indy. Peyton would have more than just the one ring if Tony could have fielded a competent D. He's one of the most over-rated coaches of all time because some people actually put him in the HOF discussion. He did great by turning around a franchise that had sucked for 20 years, but was never able to get over the hump. Then, in his next job, he was a bystander that was made to look good by having the greatest QB of all time. Im not saying that it wasnt the right call. I think that Rex Ryan given the right personnel is a pretty good head coach, but firing him on Monday was absolutely the right call. As the saying goes: "Men lie, Women lie, Numbers don't". He's stats are impressive and most of all they've been consistent. He's won a Super Bowl with a HOF QB and he built from scratch a Superbowl Caliber team that didnt have a HOF QB. That imo is what we need because we dont have the QB right now and these guys also need the discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Im not saying that it wasnt the right call. I think that Rex Ryan given the right personnel is a pretty good head coach, but firing him on Monday was absolutely the right call. As the saying goes: "Men lie, Women lie, Numbers don't". He's stats are impressive and most of all they've been consistent. He's won a Super Bowl with a HOF QB and he built from scratch a Superbowl Caliber team that didnt have a HOF QB. That imo is what we need because we dont have the QB right now and these guys also need the discipline. He inherited Sapp, Brooks, and Lynch from the previous regime. The three best players on that team. Tell me again how he built them from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I disagree wholeheartedly. This is a great job for a HC , analogous to Parcells coming in. High draft pick, tons of cap sapce and literally nowhere to go but up. Man you think Woody meddles , I'd hate to see what you think of Jerry Jones. I do agree QB can be an issue , but let's see how the new GM/scouting/HC address that. I disagree wholeheartedly. This is a great job for a HC , analogous to Parcells coming in. High draft pick, tons of cap sapce and literally nowhere to go but up. Man you think Woody meddles , I'd hate to see what you think of Jerry Jones. I do agree QB can be an issue , but let's see how the new GM/scouting/HC address that. Atlanta and San Fran are way more attractive job postings than the Jets. Chicago would be too if Cutler wasnt such a b_tch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Im not looking at one year. The talent on that team was Superbowl talent. Look at Gruden's body of work during his time there. He was their coach for 7 years and only 2 seasons he had 10 or more wins and 3 of those seasons he had losing records. You can say what you want about Dungy but Dungy had that team when they weren't what Gruden had and he had just 1 losing season in his 6 years with the team and thats was his first year, and they made the playoffs 4 out of 6 years. The owner fired a coach that made the team relevant, then gave it to a guy who won a title with the team the prior guy built yet proceeded to run it into the ground and they have yet to recover. Ok, what about the work Gruden did in Oakland? He turned that team around too. Played his old team in the Super Bowl that year. Dungy did make a terrible team relevant but he did it with the ground work, believe it or not, that Sam Wyche put in building that team with Sapp, Brooks, Nickerson and Lynch the nucleus of those dominate D's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 He inherited Sapp, Brooks, and Lynch from the previous regime. The three best players on that team. Tell me again how he built them from scratch. He didn't build the team but somebody had to coach it. I'm not saying I want Dungy he's just a better version of Herm but to say he sucked as a coach is ridiculous. With or without the Super Bowl he had a good career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 He did not build that team from scratch. lol. The entire nucleus of the defense which is why there were successful was intact when Dungy arrived (minus Barber). He inherited to HOF players in Sapp and Brooks. John Lynch and Hardy Nickerson were already on the team. They went from 9-7 getting bounced in the Wild Card game to 12-4 and won the Super Bowl. What changed? Your answer is Tony Dungy. You say that team wasnt built by Dungy because the nucleus was there? Here's a link. Tell me how that Nucleus was doing before Dungy arrived. The nucleus is also on this football team, we need someone to build it up however, Thats what I mean by building the team from scratch. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/tam/ Tony Dungy can make something out of that draft that people think Idzik busted on. I dont think he did, I just think he needs the right people to get the most out of these guys. I think Dungy can because he's proven that he can consistently. Thats not not overrated, thats the truth. Jon Gruden took a team with a built nucleus and won a championship, then proceed to implode and eventually got a job on TV where fans who can't see what happened give him the praise as if this guy was some sort of coach Guru (Not saying you, but in general). Tony Dungy deserves more respect than that is all I'm saying. He's not overrated at all, he's simply the Scottie Pippen of the coaching world. What he does simply doesnt garner the attention but he's more valuable than given credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Atlanta and San Fran are way more attractive job postings than the Jets. Chicago would be too if Cutler wasnt such a b_tch. Atlanta maybe, but with SF a HC will be expected to win immediately. If the new Jets HC comes in and wins 7-8-9 games its would be viewed as a step in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlife33 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Bowles or Quinn sound good to me. At the same time this franchise is offensively starved. Any news on Gase? Kubiak is an offensive guy but im just not sold on him personally. I'd pass on McDaniels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Umm, you kind of answered your own query. By the time of Gruden's second season, the nucleus of that team had been together for eight years. Shame on Gruden for not stopping time. Bullsh*t, They went from a 12 win Super Bowl team to a 7 win team to a 5 win slap di_k team. Gruden didnt do anything but win with a team he didnt build and proceeded to let what was already built for him crash to his f'ing feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 He didn't build the team but somebody had to coach it. I'm not saying I want Dungy he's just a better version of Herm but to say he sucked as a coach is ridiculous. With or without the Super Bowl he had a good career. Never said he sucked. Not in Tampa, at least. He was mediocre at best in Indy. One of the more over-rated coaches in history because he was merely a pretty good coach, yet he's revered as if he was a HOF caliber coach. Of the three big talking head former coaches, Dungy is certainly well below Cowher and Gruden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Atlanta and San Fran are way more attractive job postings than the Jets. Chicago would be too if Cutler wasnt such a b_tch. I'll give you SF, but from a Defensive standpoint and nearly $40 mil in cap space, all it would take would be an Offensive minded coach who can get something from this Offense and I think we're in pretty good shape. Chicago and Atlanta have terrible defenses. SF is the most balanced team by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 You're forgetting that Gruden got a career year out of Brad Johnson who was pretty terrible the year before with Dungy. Johnson had another good year but it didnt equate to winning the following season....SB hangover? Idk. The D regressed with age and losing Sapp. But they had QB problems after that but Gruden somehow managed to get that team to 11 wins with Chris Simms and Brian Griese after that 5 win season. They had another bad one and then had back to back 9-7 seasons before he retired with Garcia. He got them back to the playoffs twice. That's far from horrible. Im not forgetting anything, I'm looking at the overall records on a yearly basis and in 11 years Gruden has only 4 years of 10 or more wins in a season. This is the guy who won a Super Bowl and suddenly its Dungy, the guy who built that team, who is the overrated one here. ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Schroy Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 What about Tony Dungy? I like Dungy. But I think he's done with coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 All this talk about not hiring a "defensive coach" is just nonsense. We need the best candidate who will have a clear vision/plan for the ENTIRE team. I don't care what side of the ball he comes from. This is where Rex really dropped the ball. With his years of experience in trying to destroy offenses he should have been able to "reverse engineer" that knowledge into a plan to help his offense. For instance: - The things that he had trouble game planning against should have been in our offense - He should have crafted a playbook for his QB's with tips on how to beat blitzes This is true. I know for me I am kind of hoping that the best coach is an offensive guy. But if they go with a defensive minded guy I don't care, as long as he can fix this offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Bullsh*t, They went from a 12 win Super Bowl team to a 7 win team to a 5 win slap di_k team. Gruden didnt do anything but win with a team he didnt build and proceeded to let what was already built for him crash to his f'ing feet. You're right. Simeon Rice and Warren Sapp had long productive careers post SB win. The team got old. Period. And Gruden did a hell of a job in Tampa getting a few playoff berths out of some not so talented teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlife33 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I like Dungy. But I think he's done with coaching. Agreed. He seems to have moved on and enjoys his gig on Sunday nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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