New York Mick Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 all free agent QBs are garbage So are Winston and Mariota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrace the Suck Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 the Jets were #2 in rushing. they don't need a first round OL. all free agent QBs are garbage How was the pass blocking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long suffering jets fan Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 the Jets were #2 in rushing. they don't need a first round OL. all free agent QBs are garbage Our QBs were the 7th most sacked in the NFL. You can't expect a rookie QB to come in here and be good the first year unless you have a heck of a team around them. We're going to need a stop gap, unless you're sold on Geno being the starter again next year. I don't want to relive for the umpteenth time the Jets ruining a rookie QB because we rush him out there too soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Agreed Sheriff is the pick at 6, Round 2 discussion is needed Nah yo. You can only take Defensive Ends or Quarterbacks with a top 10 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Our QBs were the 7th most sacked in the NFL. You can't expect a rookie QB to come in here and be good the first year unless you have a heck of a team around them. We're going to need a stop gap, unless you're sold on Geno being the starter again next year. I don't want to relive for the umpteenth time the Jets ruining a rookie QB because we rush him out there too soon. We need 2 Guards. Willie Colon was a big reason we had the #2 ranked rushing offense and he's one foot out the door. I'm tired of crappy DB's or OLB's in round 1 I want someone who comes in right away and makes a positive impact. Scherff is that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long suffering jets fan Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 We need 2 Guards. Willie Colon was a big reason we had the #2 ranked rushing offense and he's one foot out the door. I'm tired of crappy DB's or OLB's in round 1 I want someone who comes in right away and makes a positive impact. Scherff is that guy. I'm down with Scherff, but we also need OLB, CB and QB in free agency. Can we do all that and Iupati too? Colon is also one of the reasons we had the worst passing offense (along with Geno and Vick of course). Also he stalled so many drives because of his penalties. However when we did get the blocking look how much better our better our sh*tty QBs looked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long suffering jets fan Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Why not just take Cam Erving in the second? Dude was awesome in the games I watched. If we go QB, or OLB in round 1 I'm fine with that. Let's just get at least OL in here in the early rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangrene Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Scherff is probably best suited as a RT in the NFL in my opinion, but he could succeed at any position at any OL position outside of C. He does have issues with speed rushers at times, which is where the questions about LT come in. He is an absolute mauler in the run game. Best I've seen at Iowa, and we have put some OL in the NFL over the last 15 years. He is a physical freak. He will destroy the combine and his stock will likely rise. He is about as strong as any NFL lineman out there. We are talking 443 lb hang clean. That's Suh territory. He's also very agile. He played QB in HS for what it's worth. I agree with KRL that s big positive is his mean streak. He kills people. And he does it to the whistle. Every play. Iowa OL come from an NFL zone scheme and are ready to play from day 1. He does have a bit of an injury history. Broken leg one year. Knee scope this year(didn't miss a game though). Kind of always seems to be dinged. That's my biggest concern with him. Wouldn't be a sexy pick, but he's got value at 6. After The Jets drafting of two different cornerbacks with a college injury history (Milliner and McDougle), I'm not sure that I want to roll the dice on one more talented college player with an injury history. Plus a big man with a history of having his knee scoped, that mean's missing knee cartilage -that's 315lbs of bone on bone with missing shock absorbing cartilage. For a lighter player it may not be as big an issue but for a big lineman it gets tricky. The Jets took a risk of a big man with a history of cartilage damage before, Dwayne Robinson. Javedon Clooney has similar issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I understand the crux of this argument. If he's a Guard, #6 is too high. If he's a LT, #6 is fine. So let me fix this up; he's a LT. He's been a LT for the last three years, and was considered a first round OT prospect LAST year before he decided to return to school for his senior year. All he did since then was win the Outland Trophy (for college's best interior lineman). The driving force behind supporting him is the idea that if he didn't work out at LT, we still have a potentially dominant player for the next ten years. It would be disappointing to have spent such a high draft pick on an interior player, or a RT even. But he wouldn't just crap out. If we swing for the fences (so to speak) on a QB, WR, or DE/OLB and they don't pan out there is no backup plan. They would just "develop" on the bench. Scherff gets to develop on the field, making immediate contributions. OK, fair enough. I have little doubt you're more familiar with the player than I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Yes to drafting Cameron Erving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 No one wants to believe it....but Geno didnt suck in December. Not that this is great shakes, but Geno's going to break out next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sg3 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Not that this is great shakes, but Geno's going to break out next year. And Aaron Hernandez is going to break out in 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Not that this is great shakes, but Geno's going to break out next year. acne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 How was the pass blocking? Our QBs were the 7th most sacked in the NFL. the pass blocking was well above average. In fact Geno SMith had 4 seconds to throw (2nd in the league) through half a season. The passes weren't coming out quick enough. http://www.buccaneers.com/news/article-smith/Football-Geekery-Quicker-Passes-Needed/81de1b9e-dd24-4581-80b2-1e58c53a5680 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I really hate stats because they never tell the whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 the pass blocking was well above average. In fact Geno SMith had 4 seconds to throw (2nd in the league) through half a season. The passes weren't coming out quick enough. http://www.buccaneers.com/news/article-smith/Football-Geekery-Quicker-Passes-Needed/81de1b9e-dd24-4581-80b2-1e58c53a5680 The pass blocking wasn't well above average. It was crap. Geno being crap doesn't make the line not crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The pass blocking wasn't well above average. It was crap. Geno being crap doesn't make the line not crap. 2.5 to 3 seconds is the industry standard. Geno was getting 4. That's above average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 2.5 to 3 seconds is the industry standard. Geno was getting 4. That's above average. I don't think he was getting 4 when it counted seems like opposing teams could dial it up whenever they needed too to ruin a drive. Of course Geno the nerf ball slinger Smith was no help to the OL granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I don't think he was getting 4 when it counted seems like opposing teams could dial it up whenever they needed too to ruin a drive. what you are seeing is teams blitzing a player who couldn't beat a blitz. WHen there's 6 rushers and 5 blockers, that's on the QB to get it out, simple as that. If you look at how teams defend against good Qbs, they usually don't blitz as much, cause those guys know where to throw the ball and how much time they have. adding more highly paid offensive linemen doesn't solve that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 2.5 to 3 seconds is the industry standard. Geno was getting 4. That's above average. Throwing a number on it doesn't mean you're doing anything more than your usual pointing and grunting. I don't see why this is an especially useful measure of pass protection generally or even as a quick and dirty means of differencing out the effect of the quarterback on the line's performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long suffering jets fan Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 the pass blocking was well above average. In fact Geno SMith had 4 seconds to throw (2nd in the league) through half a season. The passes weren't coming out quick enough. http://www.buccaneers.com/news/article-smith/Football-Geekery-Quicker-Passes-Needed/81de1b9e-dd24-4581-80b2-1e58c53a5680 Interesting stat. That changes my perception a little regarding the OL, but I think we still need to invest there, for other reasons. Brick takes the biggest chunk of our salary cap next year and will need to be replaced at some point, Mangold may not be far behind and is #2 on the salary cap. Let's at least start the process now. Also in order to win the big one its a different set of rules than when you play during the regular season. If you want to win you need to be rock solid in the trenches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 what you are seeing is teams blitzing a player who couldn't beat a blitz. WHen there's 6 rushers and 5 blockers, that's on the QB to get it out, simple as that. If you look at how teams defend against good Qbs, they usually don't blitz as much, cause those guys know where to throw the ball and how much time they have. adding more highly paid offensive linemen doesn't solve that problem. not necessarily I have seen plenty of times where a lineman misses assignment esp Breno, Winters, and Oday. I have seen (as we all have) the line getting beat by 4 man rush, We have seen drive killing penalties by Colon and Breno, etc... I think you over simplified here - the Line is good at rushing because the assignments are little more clear and they dont have to hold position for long but they suck as pass protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Yes to drafting Cameron Erving. Yeah, I'm okay with this too. My newest draft-dream is to trade with the Browns for their second, first round pick (#19 overall), and pick up their second round pick (#43 overall). This lets them get a player at #6, and at #12. #19 is probably too low for Brandon Scherff, but getting Erving at that spot sounds doable (at least at this point in the process). Picking up an additional top-50 pick would make losing out on Scherff worthwhile, especially if a versatile player like Erving is still on the board, that kid can play either OT spot, or move inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The12th Man Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Drafting a guard at #6 is the equivalent of signing a free agent guard for $12M/year. It's a piss poor allocation of resources. How? With CBA, we get that same quality at a bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 How? With CBA, we get that same quality at a bargain. I invite you to read the rest of the thread if you already haven't. Sperm takes the time out to explain it better than I will right now. Bottom line, a guard is a terrible value at #6 overall. Great guards can be (and always are) found later in the draft. A franchise left tackle? Yes. But unless they're willing to move on from Brick, there's no reason to draft their LT of the future. Be a different story if Brick could play anywhere else on the OL, but he can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 not necessarily I have seen plenty of times where a lineman misses assignment esp Breno, Winters, and Oday. I have seen (as we all have) the line getting beat by 4 man rush, We have seen drive killing penalties by Colon and Breno, etc... I think you over simplified here - the Line is good at rushing because the assignments are little more clear and they dont have to hold position for long but they suck as pass protection. actually agree with that. It's true the guards and RT would break down (Mario Williams owned Breno for example) but you don't need to use a top 6 pick to replace Breno, Winters or Oday. It's not a problem requiring a top pick to solve. The QB situation on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Throwing a number on it doesn't mean you're doing anything more than your usual pointing and grunting. Pointing? Sure. Grunting? Maybe. But at least I'm not throwing feces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBadAss Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 wasnt Chance Warmack a guard??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Pointing? Sure. Grunting? Maybe. But at least I'm not throwing feces How about throwing money towards the bet you lost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The poster boy as to the reason to take a guard in this thread zac martin got abused pretty good a few times last night. Forget online in the 1st, take Cam Erving in the 2nd instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Pointing? Sure. Grunting? Maybe. But at least I'm not throwing feces Discourse: elevated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 but you don't need to use a top 6 pick to replace Breno, Winters or Oday. It's not a problem requiring a top pick to solve. The QB situation on the other hand... No I would not use a top 6 for that either , but I would use the top 6 in Breno spot at RT until dBrick is done and then move the top 6 over to LT and find a new RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 How about throwing money towards the bet you lost? oh lord which bet do i owe money on now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 oh lord which bet do i owe money on now. Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Seriously? yes seriously my brains are shot because I'm a Jets fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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