DaBallhawk Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 No one has ever called him a bust that I've seen, in the history of JN. Let alone be multiple people with any type of frequency in recent discussions. Does it really matter what "tag" you put on him to tell people how bad you think he is? Read the Brick thread from a couple weeks ago when certain clowns referred to him as a "turnstile", that he's awful. You can't use the term "bust" with somebody who every single year either makes the Pro Bowl or is among the alternates so of course you don't hear it with Brick often. But what you do hear is that some people that don't know much about football think he's awful, over the hill, can't block anybody, gets beat all the time...but somehow they really can't come up with any examples of course to show you how bad Brick is and how DE's abuse him on a weekly basis. Because it just doesn't happen. So whether you call him a bust or you say he flat out stinks, and sucked for a couple of years now...it really makes no difference. Either is not the case and couldn't be further from the "truth". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Does it really matter what "tag" you put on him to tell people how bad you think he is? Read the Brick thread from a couple weeks ago when certain clowns referred to him as a "turnstile", that he's awful. You can't use the term "bust" with somebody who every single year either makes the Pro Bowl or is among the alternates so of course you don't hear it with Brick often. But what you do hear is that some people that don't know much about football think he's awful, over the hill, can't block anybody, gets beat all the time...but somehow they really can't come up with any examples of course to show you how bad Brick is and how DE's abuse him on a weekly basis. Because it just doesn't happen. So whether you call him a bust or you say he flat out stinks, and sucked for a couple of years now...it really makes no difference. Either is not the case and couldn't be further from the "truth". He did get beat a lot the past 2 years. That doesn't make him a bust. There's no connection. A player can be very good and then be not as good. I missed some games is year early on, but I saw more than enough to see he's not been top player he was. While in his prime he was never really more than ok/adequate in run blocking, he's now particularly bad. Behind Brick is the one direction we noticeably run poorest as a team. Pass blocking I wouldn't call him a turnstile, but there have been several plays I've seen him look like just that. Hat isn't a QB holding the ball too long; that's a QB who gets hit or pressured too quickly regardless of ability. What I remember most with Geno holding too long is when pressure comes from up the gut and he runs straight backwards like a mindless fool having a panic attack. But I disagree 100% that a player is believed to be a bust by anyone here, and it's a fabrication to marginalize dissent (i.e. straw man argument). I saw that thread and probably posted in it. The criticism is he's very inconsistent now, not that he has below average ability (at least as a pass blocker). As run blocker he has sucked compared to others around the league and even compared to other lesser players on this team. The same below-average guards have played next to Mangold this year and he's been arguably the best center in the game. It's an excuse. Ferguson has also played behind poor pass blockers before and played at a very high (if not elite) level. Evn Faneca wasn't exactly God's gift to pass blocking while he was here. I recall him being the worst pass blocking guard in the NFL which is why we let him go for absolutely nothing even though he still had another $5M guaranteed coming his way (which we paid him after we cut him).That didn't make Faneca a bust of a draft pick because he was once great and later was a liability. But regardless, a player can be well above average on balance for several years and then be average or worse after that, without that player being a bust. Say it's sunny for 8 straight months. If it's then cloudy the next 2, people can say the weather has been crappy for 2 years without it meaning it's never been nice outside for the past 10 years. Saying Brick is not worthy of his percentage of the team's pay to him is not synonymous with being a bust. No one has made the claim he was a bust. It's a made-up stance to marginalize those who don't agree he's still an above average player worthy of a $12 million cap number without noticeably and markedly improved play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Again, why is it so hard for people to just point out a few games this season where he really struggled? Give us a few examples, a few plays. Shouldn't be that hard. I can easily show you how bad Geno Smith was in some games, or Breno, Winters, Pace, Landry, whatever. It's not hard. However I don't remember Brick or Mangold struggling, I just haven't seen it. I couldn't point out any games. The one play I remember is the one where Chandler Jones beat him for a sack in week 16. He didn't look bad there, he didn't struggle, he just lost that battle, it happens. Especially with an elite pass rusher like Chandler. He got the best of him on that one play. He does that to every tackle, I don't care what your name is or how good you are. He'd be doing the same to Joe Thomas (a guy who couldn't even block Barnes) or any other Pro Bowl type guy. Anyway, a week later Brick mopped the floor with a combination of Wake/Vernon when we played the Dolphins. He shut down 2 of the best pass rushers in the league, they recorded 2 big goose eggs. Yet we rather talk about something that nobody really remembers seeing. Brick struggling. Maybe I missed it, I don't know. Point it out to us. I'm subscribed to Gamepass with the Coaches Film and all that, I'll be happy to look over those games and if I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it. Where/When did he struggle this season? Give me a couple of games/situations and I'll check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32GreenIsGod Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Speaks to the Jets lack of depth. Does everyone think playing every play automatically means you are good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Speaks to the Jets lack of depth. Does everyone think playing every play automatically means you are good? What does one have to do with the other? Do you understand the difference between toughness/reliability and skill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Mad respect for brick. OLine is a luxury for most. We are fortunate to have him alongside Nick. Needs a little help every where else fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Does it really matter what "tag" you put on him to tell people how bad you think he is? Read the Brick thread from a couple weeks ago when certain clowns referred to him as a "turnstile", that he's awful. You can't use the term "bust" with somebody who every single year either makes the Pro Bowl or is among the alternates so of course you don't hear it with Brick often. But what you do hear is that some people that don't know much about football think he's awful, over the hill, can't block anybody, gets beat all the time...but somehow they really can't come up with any examples of course to show you how bad Brick is and how DE's abuse him on a weekly basis. Because it just doesn't happen. So whether you call him a bust or you say he flat out stinks, and sucked for a couple of years now...it really makes no difference. Either is not the case and couldn't be further from the "truth". Jan 23, 2011 Heinz Field AFCCG: The play that ended it all. Forty-two years up in smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Jan 23, 2011 Heinz Field AFCCG: The play that ended it all. Forty-two years up in smoke. yeah...you are right. One play determined that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 yeah...you are right. One play determined that day. Beat me to it that fumble returned for a td was the difference in the end..Oh wait that game was all Rex's fault.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Beat me to it that fumble returned for a td was the difference in the end..Oh wait that game was all Rex's fault.. Not to beat a dead horse.... but clear evidence has arisen about how flat we were after winning the Foxboro SB the week before. Pleanty of blame for that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 yeah...you are right. One play determined that day. That was the last time Pittsburgh scored the whole game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Beat me to it that fumble returned for a td was the difference in the end..Oh wait that game was all Rex's fault.. Final score 24-19. Have southparkcpa help you with the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Final score 24-19. Have southparkcpa help you with the math. I am terrible at math..but I do know the game was 60 minutes and it took more than one player to get us down by 24. But go on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Jan 23, 2011 Heinz Field AFCCG: 1) You honestly go back 5 years in your pathetic attempt to call out Brick? Really? When he was supposed to be in his prime? You're a joke. 2) Do you know what a stunt play is? Probably not. Look it up. Brick did what he was supposed to do there. Why don't you put up a screenshot right after the snap when Brick blocked his man (the DE)? Oh, right, that doesn't really fit your agenda. Face it, he did what he was supposed to do. The Steelers overloaded that side, they engaged Brick for a second to make sure he doesn't pick up the blitzing LB & S from the outside. But I guess the genius that you are, if that were you you would have just decided to let the DE walk right through. Smart. And then you try to blame this game on him as well? You're hilarious. Go away, troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 He did get beat a lot the past 2 years. That doesn't make him a bust. There's no connection. A player can be very good and then be not as good. I missed some games is year early on, but I saw more than enough to see he's not been top player he was. While in his prime he was never really more than ok/adequate in run blocking, he's now particularly bad. Behind Brick is the one direction we noticeably run poorest as a team. Pass blocking I wouldn't call him a turnstile, but there have been several plays I've seen him look like just that. Hat isn't a QB holding the ball too long; that's a QB who gets hit or pressured too quickly regardless of ability. What I remember most with Geno holding too long is when pressure comes from up the gut and he runs straight backwards like a mindless fool having a panic attack. But I disagree 100% that a player is believed to be a bust by anyone here, and it's a fabrication to marginalize dissent (i.e. straw man argument). I saw that thread and probably posted in it. The criticism is he's very inconsistent now, not that he has below average ability (at least as a pass blocker). As run blocker he has sucked compared to others around the league and even compared to other lesser players on this team. The same below-average guards have played next to Mangold this year and he's been arguably the best center in the game. It's an excuse. Ferguson has also played behind poor pass blockers before and played at a very high (if not elite) level. Evn Faneca wasn't exactly God's gift to pass blocking while he was here. I recall him being the worst pass blocking guard in the NFL which is why we let him go for absolutely nothing even though he still had another $5M guaranteed coming his way (which we paid him after we cut him).That didn't make Faneca a bust of a draft pick because he was once great and later was a liability. But regardless, a player can be well above average on balance for several years and then be average or worse after that, without that player being a bust. Say it's sunny for 8 straight months. If it's then cloudy the next 2, people can say the weather has been crappy for 2 years without it meaning it's never been nice outside for the past 10 years. Saying Brick is not worthy of his percentage of the team's pay to him is not synonymous with being a bust. No one has made the claim he was a bust. It's a made-up stance to marginalize those who don't agree he's still an above average player worthy of a $12 million cap number without noticeably and markedly improved play. I don't think this is really a two-year trend. His blocking numbers were solid last year. In any event, it matters less that his cap hit is ten million than that cutting him saves us less than three. The roster management does itself here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I am terrible at math..but I do know the game was 60 minutes and it took more than one player to get us down by 24. But go on.... But that play was the final blow. The argument here is over DaBallhawk's claim that there are no examples of Brick missing a block or getting beat. Funny how you attack a perfectly supported point but sweep DaBallhawk's outlandishly wrong "Because it just doesn't happen" falsity under the rug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 But that play was the final blow. The argument here is over DaBallhawk's claim that there are no examples of Brick missing a block or getting beat. Funny how you attack a perfectly supported point but sweep DaBallhawk's outlandishly wrong "Because it just doesn't happen" falsity under the rug. I didnt read the entire thread..... I saw what you posted out of context. You my friend called me out to do the math. We're good. I still hate math though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I didnt read the entire thread..... I saw what you posted out of context. You my friend called me out to do the math. We're good. I still hate math though. Thank goodness for calculators otherwise you wouldn't have been a CPA.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 That was the last time Pittsburgh scored the whole game. +1 If a game can have a game winning play it can also have a game losing play and that was it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Thank goodness for calculators otherwise you wouldn't have been a CPA.. I took the CPA exam when it was No. 2 pencil and NO calculators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallinPB Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Out of everything that was said, here is the real deal about Brick. The guy is solid. One play missed in his whole career is an accomplishment no matter what the person who said it wasn't says. He is not the best. We know that. He is not bad either. 3 other positions on our line is worst than Brick. Once you sure up those positions then maybe we can start assessing Brick as far as replacing him and what not. He is what a pro should be. Shows up to work, says the right things and just does his job. I'm happy we drafted him with the #4 pick. May not be a perennial pro bowler but we definitely received the value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The12th Man Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Out of everything that was said, here is the real deal about Brick. The guy is solid. One play missed in his whole career is an accomplishment no matter what the person who said it wasn't says. He is not the best. We know that. He is not bad either. 3 other positions on our line is worst than Brick. Once you sure up those positions then maybe we can start assessing Brick as far as replacing him and what not. He is what a pro should be. Shows up to work, says the right things and just does his job. I'm happy we drafted him with the #4 pick. May not be a perennial pro bowler but we definitely received the value. An all important part of being a pro. Extremely underated with regards to his influence in the lockeroom and community. Brick is a professional and plays well at his position. Cant ask for more nowadays, especialy with the clowns coming out recently and how scrutinized the players are with social medial and around the clock coverage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 southpark and Brick.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 But that play was the final blow. The argument here is over DaBallhawk's claim that there are no examples of Brick missing a block or getting beat. He didn't miss a block, he didn't get beat. Use your head for once, troll, and try harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The12th Man Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 He didn't miss a block, he didn't get beat. Use your head for once, troll, and DO YOUR JOB. Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 compiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 compiler Was there a Cumar sighting?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetdawgg Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 No blocking TE for years now. No adequate LG play. Poor QB performance and yet Brick is still standing strong. He has not called out any player or coach. He plays like a F'n Jet should play year in year out. He has stopped the best at their position over a Long period of time. What a quality pick. The Jets have many real problem positions, LT is lacking depth. Brick is STILL a high quality NFL starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32GreenIsGod Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 What does one have to do with the other? Do you understand the difference between toughness/reliability and skill? Yeah. it's mostly luck playing in that many games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I don't think this is really a two-year trend. His blocking numbers were solid last year. In any event, it matters less that his cap hit is ten million than that cutting him saves us less than three. The roster management does itself here. It doesn't save less than $3 million. His guaranteed $ has already been paid, so I t saves the additional amount he gets paid going forward, which is closer to $8 million, minus the cost of the replacement player on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 No blocking TE for years now. No adequate LG play. Poor QB performance and yet Brick is still standing strong. He has not called out any player or coach. He plays like a F'n Jet should play year in year out. He has stopped the best at their position over a Long period of time. What a quality pick. The Jets have many real problem positions, LT is lacking depth. Brick is STILL a high quality NFL starter That is irrelevant. He was a top blocker once without a good blocking TE. He's absolutely still starter quality. It's not much of a point since no one is claiming he isn't. What he isn't: 1) as good as he was 2) consistent (other than health, I guess) My personal #1 preference is still keeping him IF he returns to his former self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetdawgg Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 That is irrelevant. He was a top blocker once without a good blocking TE. He's absolutely still starter quality. It's not much of a point since no one is claiming he isn't. What he isn't: 1) as good as he was 2) consistent (other than health, I guess) My personal #1 preference is still keeping him IF he returns to his former self. I think that you are in the minority here regarding Brick. Getting a real QB will help immensely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 I think that you are in the minority here regarding Brick. Getting a real QB will help immensely Doesn't it make sense to just release Brick, have no plan B in place, no replacement, nobody you can point to for sure and say that guy is going to be better/cheaper, create a huge hole at LT - the most important position after QB - and just move on because Brick is not the best tackle in the game? I mean come on, it makes perfect sense. If you're the Raiders that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetdawgg Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Doesn't it make sense to just release Brick, have no plan B in place, no replacement, nobody you can point to for sure and say that guy is going to be better/cheaper, create a huge hole at LT - the most important position after QB - and just move on because Brick is not the best tackle in the game? I mean come on, it makes perfect sense. If you're the Raiders that is. What do you mean no plan. B? www.lefttackle.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Doesn't it make sense to just release Brick, have no plan B in place, no replacement, nobody you can point to for sure and say that guy is going to be better/cheaper, create a huge hole at LT - the most important position after QB - and just move on because Brick is not the best tackle in the game? I mean come on, it makes perfect sense. If you're the Raiders that is. Wow, I mean that's like totally what people are calling for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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