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Brick literally IS a brick


DaBallhawk
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On 1/6/2015 at 11:15 PM, Jetdawgg said:

I think that you are in the minority here regarding Brick. Getting a real QB will help immensely

This again ignores the post you're quoting: he is clearly inconsistent and worse than he used to be. He'll look like a very good tackle at times and nothing remotely like a very good tackle at others.

If he improves to the level he was at before, which could happen with a change of scenery (new coaching staff), that is still my preference. But in no way has he earned just being handed the job anymore.

He hasn't had a real QB since Ryan was named HC. Sanchez, for years, used to just stand there like a rooted tree. I'm not sure he stepped up in the pocket 10 times through the end of his 3rd NFL season. Smith is a terrible passer, but he is not and has not been less mobile in the pocket than Sanchez. On the contrary, there have been many snaps where he's avoided a sack and you-know-who would have just stood there and gotten clobbered (and probably fumbled).

Smith has been a disaster at QB, but in no way does that absolve Ferguson. He's had disaster-level QB play before but was still a very above-average blocker. His run-blocking, compared to his peers, is even worse than I'd realized when quantified: it's an embarrassment. His pass-blocking isn't nearly as bad as his run-blocking, but it also isn't nearly the elite level he was at.

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Very good at your craft is acceptable. You don't mention how much a good blocking TE means to the run game. Also the Jets DO run the ball extremely well inspite of 8 and 9 man fronts.

The QB needs to call the right protections and also the QB has to drop back to the right spot in the pocket. With a great deal of pressure coming up the middle left, Geno was forced frequently to be in a bad position in the pocket. This had to hurt the way Brick may have looked to you. Only you know that.

The evidence shows me that Brick is STILL solid. He does not have to be spectacular. Of course I would desire that. LG and QB severely hurt this team. Aboshi did pretty well though I may say. Jets have many worse problems than Brick. In fact I wish all of the Jets played as bad as Brick.

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Wow, I mean that's like totally what people are calling for!

 

People? You're pretty much the only one that is so obsessed with upgrading at LT. And you want us to upgrade there if Brick doesn't return to his age 25 form or takes a big paycut. If that doesn't happen you want us to cut him. That's whack. Would be something to think about if we had a (proven) better and cheaper option on the team. But to get rid of Brick, create a big hole at LT and then expect to find a really good LT for less or the same money. That's just not happening. Who would that be? Who guarantees us a better play for less or more money? And who guarantees us the guy is going to sign with us? Like I said, for whatever reason you're totally obsessed with Brick. With all the holes we have, with all the guys that truly do suck and make too much money (overpaid), like Vick, Pace, Landry, CJ and company, you worry about somebody that is playing at a high level, at a position that is almost impossible to fix unless you really have a lucky hand, just because that guy happens to make good money. Would be nice if we could re-do his deal to lower his salary and lock him up for life. But you don't get rid of somebody like Brick, at a position like that, unless you really have a perfect plan B in place (top 10 pick @ LT, proven Pro Bowl LT etc.). We don't have that. And we have so many other areas that are a priority. LT is not. I'm not the least worried about LT. Whether it's performance of money related. As long as Brick plays the way he does currently he can make whatever amount we agreed to pay him when he signed the contract.

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People? You're pretty much the only one that is so obsessed with upgrading at LT. And you want us to upgrade there if Brick doesn't return to his age 25 form or takes a big paycut. If that doesn't happen you want us to cut him. That's whack. Would be something to think about if we had a (proven) better and cheaper option on the team. But to get rid of Brick, create a big hole at LT and then expect to find a really good LT for less or the same money. That's just not happening. Who would that be? Who guarantees us a better play for less or more money? And who guarantees us the guy is going to sign with us? Like I said, for whatever reason you're totally obsessed with Brick. With all the holes we have, with all the guys that truly do suck and make too much money (overpaid), like Vick, Pace, Landry, CJ and company, you worry about somebody that is playing at a high level, at a position that is almost impossible to fix unless you really have a lucky hand, just because that guy happens to make good money. Would be nice if we could re-do his deal to lower his salary and lock him up for life. But you don't get rid of somebody like Brick, at a position like that, unless you really have a perfect plan B in place (top 10 pick @ LT, proven Pro Bowl LT etc.). We don't have that. And we have so many other areas that are a priority. LT is not. I'm not the least worried about LT. Whether it's performance of money related. As long as Brick plays the way he does currently he can make whatever amount we agreed to pay him when he signed the contract.

1. I'm hardly obsessed with it. I've probably made like a dozen or so posts in the past 2 weeks that are related to Ferguson in any way. And most of those were either responding to posts directed specifically to me or were purely responding to cap repercussions/questions. This is a fraction of your responses, including starting a thread about him. So which one is obsessed?

2. You are fabricating opinions I haven't expressed and passing them off as mine. If you think you are arguing with someone who has suggested cutting him then start looking for a left tackle you've got the wrong poster. Either that or making things up is merely your style of discussing things.

3. Separate one's thoughts into paragraphs make reading them easier on the eyes. Also increases the likelihood anyone's going to read it.

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It doesn't save less than $3 million. His guaranteed $ has already been paid, so I t saves the additional amount he gets paid going forward, which is closer to $8 million, minus the cost of the replacement player on the roster.

Yeah, but I don't really see him getting cut after June 1 unless the replacement is drafted. It doesn't save 8M when we'd actually have it to use on somebody in FA. We have the space anyway, but it still just seems like this whole hassle to tie up all the money to do it that way instead of just cutting him next year especially when we're already turning over at least one spot on the line now.

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1. I'm hardly obsessed with it. I've probably made like a dozen or so posts in the past 2 weeks that are related to Ferguson in any way. And most of those were either responding to posts directed specifically to me or were purely responding to cap repercussions/questions. This is a fraction of your responses, including starting a thread about him. So which one is obsessed?

2. You are fabricating opinions I haven't expressed and passing them off as mine. If you think you are arguing with someone who has suggested cutting him then start looking for a left tackle you've got the wrong poster. Either that or making things up is merely your style of discussing things.

3. Separate one's thoughts into paragraphs make reading them easier on the eyes. Also increases the likelihood anyone's going to read it.

 

1. You made a dozen or so posts the past 2 weeks because Brick was only brought up a couple times in the past 2 weeks. So your participation in those threads was 100%, and it was 100% negative. Not obsessed, at all. I know.

 

2. For arguments sake, let's just go with your version for now. Who is that secret superstar upgrade you have in mind?

 

3. Boy, I was so worried you wouldn't read it, almost ruined my day. What's more fun than arguing with you over a post somebody made 2 weeks ago. But thank god you did. I'll send you a fruit basket as a thank you.

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Haha.  My post was in reference to the Wilkerson thread.  Funny you said Harvin - the Jets official roster lists his age as "___".  

 

that is weird. Will be interesting to see what they do with Harvin. I think you have to keep him, and since he likely won't re-negotiate, keep him for 2015 on the same pay-as-you-go deal. If he develops a rapport with Mariota/Winston/Whoever then extend him. If not, cut bait.

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You have to be a moron to cut Ferguson to save $8M, but we shouldn't even think about paying more than $10M per for the best player on the team.  I mean hell, he's 25 already! 

 

When was the last time a team made the playoffs without a LT? We could be the first next season. Might as well not line up with a QB as well while we're at it and sign Suh instead.

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Yeah, but I don't really see him getting cut after June 1 unless the replacement is drafted. It doesn't save 8M when we'd actually have it to use on somebody in FA. We have the space anyway, but it still just seems like this whole hassle to tie up all the money to do it that way instead of just cutting him next year especially when we're already turning over at least one spot on the line now.

No doubt. But any cap space would be cleared to use on someone else (one might even argue this is the purpose of clearing it in the first place).

Next year we don't need space to stay under the cap limit. It's just that a year's limit isn't isolated like once upon a time. What we don't spend on one (or some) is available to use on others. A lot of his remaining cap $ is $ already paid. Paying new $ increases that amt.

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1. You made a dozen or so posts the past 2 weeks because Brick was only brought up a couple times in the past 2 weeks. So your participation in those threads was 100%, and it was 100% negative. Not obsessed, at all. I know.

 

2. For arguments sake, let's just go with your version for now. Who is that secret superstar upgrade you have in mind?

 

3. Boy, I was so worried you wouldn't read it, almost ruined my day. What's more fun than arguing with you over a post somebody made 2 weeks ago. But thank god you did. I'll send you a fruit basket as a thank you.

Lol. You've commented far more on the subject than the one you say is obsessed -- to he point where you make up fake stances I've taken so you can argue against those fake stances, but okay.

It isn't a superstar that needs to replace him; the replacement only needs to be better than he is.

You're making a big deal out of nothing IMO. Whoever is the best LT we can get is who we should start/keep. If it's Ferguson then it's Ferguson. But he hasn't earned another no-competition camp after these past 2 seasons. I'd think any team fan would want us to upgrade at any important position we can, particularly when the incumbent is taking up so much of the team's spending.

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But you're looking for somebody that doesn't exist. There is nobody out there that is an upgrade over Brick. And if there was he'd be paid the same amount of money if not more. Brick is viewed as a top pass protector in the NFL, the coaches and players almost voted him in the Pro Bowl with no help from the fans. So finding an upgrade is going to be almost impossible. Especially for less money. I'd much rather spend the money to fill the holes we have at CB, OG, QB, LB and WR maybe.

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But you're looking for somebody that doesn't exist. There is nobody out there that is an upgrade over Brick. And if there was he'd be paid the same amount of money if not more. Brick is viewed as a top pass protector in the NFL, the coaches and players almost voted him in the Pro Bowl with no help from the fans. So finding an upgrade is going to be almost impossible. Especially for less money. I'd much rather spend the money to fill the holes we have at CB, OG, QB, LB and WR maybe.

There are always players coming out of school or a veteran getting better as another gets worse.

Spending the money to fill other holes isn't spending money at all (which is half the point) since so much cap space would be cleared by moving on from him if a superior replacement is available. And if someone is a couple million more, there's also the crazy notion that he might be an upgrade from someone who has ranked so lowly for the past 2 years and counting.

I've only said about 6x my preference is to keep him IF he noticeably improves (regardless of how many times you've alluded that I said otherwise). Ultimately I think we could stand to have improved play at the position, and if we're not we should make a lateral move if we can by replacing him with another far less expensive (and parlay that savings into filling yet another position with a quality vet).

The best thing he does is stay healthy. The second best thing he does is pass block. His run blocking - never his strong suit even in his prime - is an embarrassment.

I just want to see an upgrade at the position. If we can find someone this year rather than next year, all the better.

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Say it's sunny for 8 straight months. If it's then cloudy the next 2, people can say the weather has been crappy for 2 years without it meaning it's never been nice outside for the past 10 years.

 

Are you saying Brick is our ray of sunshine? You've really ramped up the homosexuality, and i'm impressed. 

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I've always considered him a B+ tackle, and considering where he was drafted he should be an A+. However, since we also landed Mangold in that same 1st round, and factoring in Bricks insane reliability... It all balances out in the end.

You have to consider who the Jets could have gotten instead. Frankly the only other player in the top 20 of the 2006 draft that has had a better career than Brick is Ngata. People femur that the Jets should have McNeil in the 2nd round, but he's be out of the league for a while now.

Of Course you would like to draft an A+ tackle three, but there weren't getting a better player than Brick at #4.

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You have to consider who the Jets could have gotten instead. Frankly the only other player in the top 20 of the 2006 draft that has had a better career than Brick is Ngata. People femur that the Jets should have McNeil in the 2nd round, but he's be out of the league for a while now.

Of Course you would like to draft an A+ tackle three, but there weren't getting a better player than Brick at #4.

 

The argument was Cutler/McNeil over D'Brick/Clemens.  The Jets had to trade up for Clemens and would have had to trade up for McNeil, but nowhere near as far.  IF they sat they would have endd up with Trueblood or Whitworth.  Whitworth has had a nice career, but was not a day 1 starter and began at G, moving to LT a few years in, Trueblood started plenty, but has not exactly been a stud.  No matter what you think of him, taking Cutler would have been a major win based on his trade value when he went to Chicago and the contract he just signed.

 

Credit our scouts for something.  The Jets were extensively linked to Cutler who they supposedly liked better than Leinart and Young.  They were correct on that.

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No doubt. But any cap space would be cleared to use on someone else (one might even argue this is the purpose of clearing it in the first place).

 

  I'd think any team fan would want us to upgrade at any important position we can, particularly when the incumbent is taking up so much of the team's spending.

 

Let's talk about the Jets cap. they were at 82% this year and similar (maybe a little higher like 87%) the year before. the 4 year floor is 89%.

 

They have to get above that number in the next two years. Or face stiff fines/loss of draft picks.  they have to be well above 89% to bring that average up. 

 

All this talk about cutting Brick to save money is not relevant. The Jets have to be Brewsters Millions in the next two years. 

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Let's talk about the Jets cap. they were at 82% this year and similar (maybe a little higher like 87%) the year before. the 4 year floor is 89%.

 

They have to get above that number in the next two years. Or face stiff fines/loss of draft picks.  they have to be well above 89% to bring that average up. 

 

All this talk about cutting Brick to save money is not relevant. The Jets have to be Brewsters Millions in the next two years.

And Woody Johnson is cash poor. What were the other claims? I forget offhand.

The Jets don't have to - and shouldn't - max out anything unless they're paying players worthy of it. Maxing out for the sake of maxing out, because it's there, is silliness. The best FA spending they did the last 2 years was NOT max out. The worst moves they made were spending millions more than the players' worth on the likes of Vick and CJ and Harvin. I'd rather they had another $15M in 2015 than using $15M on those 3 in 2014.

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