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Dan Quinn vs. Todd Bowles

Morrissey

By Morrissey
in NY Jets Forum

Woody should...  

101 members have voted

  1. 1. Woody should...

    • Wait for Dan Quinn
      76
    • Hire Todd Bowles
      25

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DaBallhawk

DaBallhawk

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tebow had 0 talent for throwing the ball ... of course talent is required but working hard is the most important

 

But you can't leave out the rest. Hard work only takes you so far if the guys around you don't help you out, if you don't fit the scheme and have to do things that you don't do well, if you get coached the wrong techniques and so on. Hard work is the most important thing but in order to become an impact player like Brady everything has to be just right. That's why it's ignorant to say that the Patriots saw something in Brady the rest of the NFL didn't. No. They saw the same like everyone else. A guy who might be able to play QB in the NFL with good coaching, in the right scheme, hard work and all that. Had the Jaguars drafted him he probably would have never seen a snap. The Pats were just a perfect fit for him.

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Morrissey

Morrissey

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I voted Quinn since Bowles has to answer for 2012 in Philly (loaded with FA and could not get it together)  

 

could interview Adam Gase now that the Broncos are done, if they need more options

no thanks, show me what he can do next year after Peyton retires

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#27TheDominator

#27TheDominator

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I don't even get why people try to argue this. Sherman, Maxwell, Chancellor, KJ Wright, all late round picks. Of course they're great players (NOW), after being coached up and put in position to make plays. That's great coaching. Getting guys that aren't considered top talents (hence why they get picked in the 5th round instead of the 1st) to play at an all pro type level. Meanwhile in Arizona half their starters on defense are 1st round picks, elite talent. That's the core of their defense. Seattle's defense is built on 3-4 late round picks. And that just takes more skill & better coaching. Imagine what he could get out of guys like Coples, Milliner, Pryor. Not saying Bowles can't do it or Rex couldn't pull it off, but I'd have more fait in Quinn. Plus Bowles would bring the same 3-4 defense again that we used under Rex. It's not a fit anymore, we should switch over to a Tampa 2 type defense (see Detroit, Seattle).

 

The trouble with this line of thinking is that the Seahawks had the top defense in football with those guys before Quinn got there.  They were top 10 in 2011 and #1 in 2012 under Gus Bradley, so obviously those guys were "coached up and put in position to make plays" while Quinn was coaching their D line.  

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artemusclyde

artemusclyde

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The whole argument I've begun to see that Quinn is a product of the talent on that team is kind of silly. We're talking about mid-level draft picks, UDFAs and a handful of early picks, like most teams. The MVP of the SB was undrafted. Their defense lost starters between last year and this year on defense, and look like they might be better this year (at least over the last month or so, to close out the season).

 

Even if this is true, Gus Bradley was the dc for when most of those picks were made. And he sucks on Jacksonville. Quinn is essentially a worse version of Bradley.

 

In fact, Quinn wasn't even on the team for the 2011 and 2012 seasons. He was the dc at Florida. He inherited the defense which was ranked 4th when he was hired.

 

Sorry if I'm not in favor of the guy who got coffee for Sherman, Carrol, and Thomas. But keep on believing that it was Quinn who coached up all those guys, and not Carrol or Bradley. Also, Quinn's specialty is defensive line, not defensive backs. So his work with them before being hired as dc would've been minimal at best.

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artemusclyde

artemusclyde

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The trouble with this line of thinking is that the Seahawks had the top defense in football with those guys before Quinn got there.  They were top 10 in 2011 and #1 in 2012 under Gus Bradley, so obviously those guys were "coached up and put in position to make plays" while Quinn was coaching their D line.  

 

Quinn wasn't even on Seattle when this happened. He was at Florida as the dc from 2011 to 2012. Also, when Avril and Bennet are their best guys on the defensive line, two of them they got in free agency. It doesn't speak well to me of his coaching abilities.

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UnitedWhofans

UnitedWhofans

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Even if this is true, Gus Bradley was the dc for when most of those picks were made. And he sucks on Jacksonville. Quinn is essentially a worse version of Bradley.

 

In fact, Quinn wasn't even on the team for the 2011 and 2012 seasons. He was the dc at Florida. He inherited the defense which was ranked 4th when he was hired.

 

Sorry if I'm not in favor of the guy who got coffee for Sherman, Carrol, and Thomas. But keep on believing that it was Quinn who coached up all those guys, and not Carrol or Bradley. Also, Quinn's specialty is defensive line, not defensive backs. So his work with them before being hired as dc would've been minimal at best.

 

That shows me even more. Florida's defenses were the only thing worth a damn on Florida when Muschamp was there.

 

So we know he can develop and coach because he did it at Florida. In a land where the SEC is the NFL.

 

In fact, I found this tweet.

 

Will Muschamp got an extra year at Florida cause of Dan Quinn. No way we go 11-2 with Durkin at DC.

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artemusclyde

artemusclyde

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That shows me even more. Florida's defenses were the only thing worth a damn on Florida when Muschamp was there.

 

So we know he can develop and coach because he did it at Florida. In a land where the SEC is the NFL.

 

In fact, I found this tweet.

 

Will Muschamp got an extra year at Florida cause of Dan Quinn. No way we go 11-2 with Durkin at DC.

 

Are you ******* kidding me? Cause the dude succeeded in college ball (the land of recruiting, something I believe that doesn't exist in the NFL) as a dc that immediately makes him hc material? Guess we might as well get Tebow to, he was an awesome qb in college who won a lot to.

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BigRy56

BigRy56

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Are you ******* kidding me? Cause the dude succeeded in college ball (the land of recruiting, something I believe that doesn't exist in the NFL) as a dc that immediately makes him hc material? Guess we might as well get Tebow to, he was an awesome qb in college who won a lot to.

He's also succeeded as a dc in the NFL and has the ring(s?) to prove it. He's also widely regarded as a good coach and is the target of several teams.
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artemusclyde

artemusclyde

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He's also succeeded as a dc in the NFL and has the ring(s?) to prove it. He's also widely regarded as a good coach and is the target of several teams.

 

Yes, however his track record only has him coaching the Seahawks, a team he did not develop. A team that was ranked 1st in points allowed and 4th in yards allowed before he came their. He also has no hc experience, and to our knowledge no working experience with the offense. 

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Morrissey

Morrissey

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Are you ******* kidding me? Cause the dude succeeded in college ball (the land of recruiting, something I believe that doesn't exist in the NFL) as a dc that immediately makes him hc material? Guess we might as well get Tebow to, he was an awesome qb in college who won a lot to.

just curious who you would hire?
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DaBallhawk

DaBallhawk

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The trouble with this line of thinking is that the Seahawks had the top defense in football with those guys before Quinn got there.  They were top 10 in 2011 and #1 in 2012 under Gus Bradley, so obviously those guys were "coached up and put in position to make plays" while Quinn was coaching their D line.  

 

That's pretty much Rex Ryan's resume.

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artemusclyde

artemusclyde

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And there better candidates because?

 

Reich is a former qb and an offensive guy. This is mainly me wanting us to break the mold of hiring a defensive hc that has gotten us nothing.

 

Marrone has hc experience. Turned teams around and generally NFL retreads due better then first time hc candidates. 

 

Bowles is more of a reaction to the Quinn love fest (he actually schemes), and him being one of the few candidates on the market in a pretty weak time. 

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Morrissey

Morrissey

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Reich is a former qb and an offensive guy. This is mainly me wanting us to break the mold of hiring a defensive hc that has gotten us nothing.

Marrone has hc experience. Turned teams around and generally NFL retreads due better then first time hc candidates.

Bowles is more of a reaction to the Quinn love fest (he actually schemes), and him being one of the few candidates on the market in a pretty weak time.

You knocked Quinn earlier for having no HC experience yet you would hire Bowles and Reich, who outside of a few games as a interim HC have no experiance as a HC. Heck doesnt Reich only have one year of experiance as a OC, and it that year SD offense in meany areas took a step back from year before.

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artemusclyde

artemusclyde

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You knocked Quinn earlier for having no HC experience yet you would hire Bowles and Reich, who outside of a few games as a interim HC have no experiance as a HC. Heck doesnt Reich only have one year of experiance as a OC, and it that year SD offense In meany areas took a step back from year before.

 

SD went through a ton of injuries. And those guys I listed were 2nd choices, I mainly want Marrone.

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Morrissey

Morrissey

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SD went through a ton of injuries. And those guys I listed were 2nd choices, I mainly want Marrone.

I would not hate the hirng of Marrone, but to say he's a clear cut better canadidate than Quinn is ridiculous. For a offensive mined head coach his offenses sure did suck.
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artemusclyde

artemusclyde

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I would not hate the hirng of Marrone, but to say he's a clear cut better canadidate than Quinn is ridiculous. For a offensive mined head coach his offenses sure did suck.

 

His qbs were Orton and Manuel. Any offense is going to suck with them as qb. What I like about him is that he had the balls to bench Manuel, is a disciplinary, none of this feel good sh*t we've had with Rex, Woody doesn't like him (a ringing endorsement in my book), and he hated the Watkins trade. It also helps that Manish was so scared sh*tless of the guy coming to the Jets and getting this organization under control that he ran a smear campaign.

 

Not to mention that he has hc experience of actually turning programs around.

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slats

slats

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I would not hate the hirng of Marrone, but to say he's a clear cut better canadidate than Quinn is ridiculous. For a offensive mined head coach his offenses sure did suck.

Offensive line coaches (his pedigree) generally aren't offensive minded. They're usually ground & pound types, who take great pride in their team's ability to run the football. Think guys like Tony Sparano or Art Shell. If the hope and dream is to bring in a head coach who's going to bring the offense into the 21st century, Doug Marrone isn't the guy. On the field, his offenses will look a lot like Rex's. Ball control, limit mistakes.

I'd rather bring in another defensive coach and hope that guy has a quality OC candidate in mind (Quinn/Shanahan?) than settle for Marrone's offensive vision.

If Marrone is the guy (and with Maccagnan soon to be on board, he's back in the picture) I'll support him. But I won't be excited about it.

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Smashmouth

Smashmouth

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I think our offensive side of the Ball is the huge priority here and if Quinn wants Kyle Shannahan - it would suck to lose him because we had to wait a month. 

 

I would be surprised if Shannahan lasted until after the superbowl. 

If Quinn wants this job and Wants Shanahan Im sure if the Jets have an agreement with Quinn he will reach out to Shanny . Don't think for a second if the Jets really want Quinn he's not aware of it. They can't make him a formal offer but they can agree privately

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DaBallhawk

DaBallhawk

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His qbs were Orton and Manuel. Any offense is going to suck with them as qb. What I like about him is that he had the balls to bench Manuel, is a disciplinary, none of this feel good sh*t we've had with Rex, Woody doesn't like him (a ringing endorsement in my book), and he hated the Watkins trade. It also helps that Manish was so scared sh*tless of the guy coming to the Jets and getting this organization under control that he ran a smear campaign.

 

Not to mention that he has hc experience of actually turning programs around.

 

He had the balls to bench Manuel? The guy should have never been named the starter in the first place. What makes Marrone a better HC candidate than Quinn? What speaks for Marrone?

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artemusclyde

artemusclyde

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He had the balls to bench Manuel? The guy should have never been named the starter in the first place. What makes Marrone a better HC candidate than Quinn? What speaks for Marrone?

 

He's turned programs around like Syracuse and Buffalo. He's whopped our ass most times we played. What the hell has Quinn done besides get coffee for Thomas and Carroll? The guy hasn't developed anybody on that Seahawks roster.

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DaBallhawk

DaBallhawk

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He's turned programs around like Syracuse and Buffalo. He's whopped our ass most times we played. What the hell has Quinn done besides get coffee for Thomas and Carroll? The guy hasn't developed anybody on that Seahawks roster.

 

He didn't turn anything around in Buffalo. He was there in '13 when they went 6-10, their defense stunk (compared to how many star players they have), he drafted Manuel, the offense was absolutely horrendous. A year later they miss the playoffs again, offense still absolutely horrendous while the defense played great thanks to Jim Schwartz. So I'm not sure what you mean by turning things around. The only good thing Buffalo got going for them last year was the arrival of Jim Schwartz. Without him that team would have performed even worse than they did last year when Marrone took over.

 

Say what you want about Quinn. He's currently coordinating arguably the best defense in NFL history, he's on a winning team that got the job done, won the big games, he knows what it takes because he's been there, done that. Marrone hasn't even sniffed a playoff game since he's been in Buffalo and the QB he picked turned out to be much worse than the QB we picked a round later in the same draft. I'm just not sold on him - over Quinn. Or even Bowles.

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FTL Jet Fan

FTL Jet Fan

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The trouble with this line of thinking is that the Seahawks had the top defense in football with those guys before Quinn got there.  They were top 10 in 2011 and #1 in 2012 under Gus Bradley, so obviously those guys were "coached up and put in position to make plays" while Quinn was coaching their D line.  

This is what concerns me everybody says Adam Gase is a product of Peyton well i think the same applies for Quinn with the Hawks D. I would prefer Bowles, but i have no problem with Quinn but not confident in his overall coaching abilities as much as I would be in Bowles. Bowles has a lot more coaching experience and has been in the leauge   longer than Quinn who stepped into a great situation. Todd Bowles experience:

 

 

After retiring as a player, Bowles was a member of the Green Bay Packers' player personnel staff from 1995–1996. He was the defensive coordinator and secondary coach at Morehouse College in 1997, and the defensive coordinator and defensive backs coach at Grambling State from 1998–1999. He was the defensive backs coach for the New York Jets in 2000, Cleveland Browns in 2004, and Dallas Cowboys from 2005–2007. He was the Browns' defensive nickel package coach from 2001–2003.

Miami Dolphins[edit]

Bowles was hired by the Miami Dolphins as the team's secondary coach and assistant head coach on January 23, 2008. After nearly four seasons as the secondary coach and assistant head coach, he was named the interim head coach on December 12, 2011, following the firing of head coach Tony Sparano. Bowles' first game as interim head coach of the Dolphins came on December 18, on the road against the Buffalo Bills. The Dolphins won the game 30-23. The Dolphins finished 2–1 under Bowles in 2011.

Philadelphia Eagles

The Philadelphia Eagles hired Bowles as the team's secondary coach on January 30, 2012. The Eagles announced on October 16, 2012 that they dismissed defensive coordinator Juan Castillo from his duties and named Todd Bowles as their new defensive coordinator. Under Bowles, the Eagles finished the season ninth in pass defense and twenty-third in rushing defense. [2]

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