Time To Look At Drafting Something Other Then QB

[LionelRichie]

Agreed. Big acid test for Maccagnan right away--if Mariota is on the board and Woody is in his ear, does he have the balls to control the room?

 

Rodgers, Wilson, Brady, Luck.    Those are the final 4 QB's and yet we are talking about a position other than QB.

 

I don't care if they draft a QB in every round for the next 2 years.  The Jets need to find a QB more than any other position.  

[BroadwayJoe12]

Rodgers, Wilson, Brady, Luck. Those are the final 4 QB's and yet we are talking about a position other than QB.

I don't care if they draft a QB in every round for the next 2 years. The Jets need to find a QB more than any other position.

Exactly. Balanced teams don't win, teams with elite quarterbacks win. It's 2015, the game is so ridiculously skewed towards the passing game it's laughable. How is this even a discussion?

[CrazyCarl40]

Rodgers, Wilson, Brady, Luck. Those are the final 4 QB's and yet we are talking about a position other than QB.

I don't care if they draft a QB in every round for the next 2 years. The Jets need to find a QB more than any other position.

Sure. But grab one in round 2 or 3 or 4. There are big enough holes that you can fill on the Jets with a can't miss at 6 in the first round so that you can grab a QB later and try to develop him.

[Hael]

Exactly. Balanced teams don't win, teams with elite quarterbacks win. It's 2015, the game is so ridiculously skewed towards the passing game it's laughable. How is this even a discussion?

 

It's not.  In fact I'd argue that you simply can't win with an average NFL QB like Kaepernick (who is imo significantly better than anyone in this years draft).  That SF team was absolutely loaded, and they just couldn't get over the hump.   Even the greatest regular season QB in history couldn't win with a stacked team, simply b/c he wasn't quite as great in the postseason.

 

We just need to bide our time, wait for that great QB prospect in some future draft and then trade up, kill the bank, or do whatever you have too to secure it.  It's just that simple, and ultimately depressing b/c we all know how statistically hard it is to get that type of difference maker.

[LionelRichie]

Sure. But grab one in round 2 or 3 or 4. There are big enough holes that you can fill on the Jets with a can't miss at 6 in the first round so that you can grab a QB later and try to develop him.

 

that is the wrong attitude.   there is no such thing as can't miss in the draft.   Look at the Jets over the last two seasons - milliner @ 9 and Pryor @ 17.   Milliner is a ? at best and Pryor looks like a bust.   Sure Garrapolo or Bridgewater could have been reaches at 17 but I'd much rather have either of those 2 QBs heading into next year than Pryor.   

 

This team needs a QB in the worst way and won't be consistently successful until they have one.  

[CrazyCarl40]

Why waste a 1st rounder on a QB when there are better ones in the 3rd and 4th rounds? Is that your question?

 

Picking Mariota at 6 and having him sit and watch a year, because that is what he is going to need is different from drafting a guy in the third round to do the same thing? Mariota MAY be more talented, but are you willing to spend decent dollars on a potential bust at QB (setting the franchise back again) or grabbing a tackle or wide receiver, or whatever position, and step in right away to start?

 

that is the wrong attitude.   there is no such thing as can't miss in the draft.   Look at the Jets over the last two seasons - milliner @ 9 and Pryor @ 17.   Milliner is a ? at best and Pryor looks like a bust.   Sure Garrapolo or Bridgewater could have been reaches at 17 but I'd much rather have either of those 2 QBs heading into next year than Pryor.   

 

This team needs a QB in the worst way and won't be consistently successful until they have one.  

 

There was no way after the way Geno ended 2013 that the Idzik/Ryan administration was taking a QB that high last season. This team does need a QB, but it doesn't necessarily have to happen in the 1st round. There are many holes to fill.

[khesanh]

I think it all depends on what we do in free agency this is a deep free agent class

[bitonti]

The brains of Jets fans (myself included) are completely fried

 

now we are going to believe that we don't need a QB? 
 

this is some late stage Nic Cage in Leaving Las Vegas level delusion. 

 

 

 

wake up people. There's no need bigger than QB. there's no pick that's more important. 

 

the Jets should take a QB in rd 1 this year, and every year that follows, until they find that good QB. 

 

nothing else matters. If they trot out Geno Smith again next year, don't even bother watching. Save yourself an entire year. 

[HessStation]

Holy crap when Bit's the voice of reason.

[peebag]

The brains of Jets fans (myself included) are completely fried

 

now we are going to believe that we don't need a QB? 

 

this is some late stage Nic Cage in Leaving Las Vegas level delusion. 

 

 

 

wake up people. There's no need bigger than QB. there's no pick that's more important. 

 

the Jets should take a QB in rd 1 this year, and every year that follows, until they find that good QB. 

 

nothing else matters. If they trot out Geno Smith again next year, don't even bother watching. Save yourself an entire year. 

 

The brains of Jets fans (myself included) are completely fried

 

now we are going to believe that we don't need a QB? 

 

this is some late stage Nic Cage in Leaving Las Vegas level delusion. 

 

 

 

wake up people. There's no need bigger than QB. there's no pick that's more important. 

 

the Jets should take a QB in rd 1 this year, and every year that follows, until they find that good QB. 

 

nothing else matters. If they trot out Geno Smith again next year, don't even bother watching. Save yourself an entire year. 

 

I agree - but you need to look at what's out there for qbs in the draft and FA - that's what people are worried about.

[LionelRichie]

There was no way after the way Geno ended 2013 that the Idzik/Ryan administration was taking a QB that high last season

And that is a big reason why Idzik is gone. In today's nfl you need to find a qb not hand the job to geno smith 2 years in a row.

Wouldn't you rather have bridgewater or garapolo than Pryor going into '15?

Get Mariota and if he sucks get Cook in 16. This team needs a qb.

[funaz]

It will be Mariota or Geno starting next year. Jameis will be gone and there is no FA that is going to displace Geno.

 

How many years should the Jets suck until the next Andrew Luck comes along? Take a chance on Mariota. Draft another one in a year or two if he flops. Repeat as necessary until they have a real starter.

 

Any FA QB would be better than Geno. Winston is the only QB worth taking at 6. I'm on board for OL or cooper. 

[Beerfish]

Rodgers, Wilson, Brady, Luck.    Those are the final 4 QB's and yet we are talking about a position other than QB.

 

I don't care if they draft a QB in every round for the next 2 years.  The Jets need to find a QB more than any other position.  

Only Luck was a truly high pick though.  Rogers late 1st rounder, Wilson 3rd rounder, brady 6th rounder.  You can post a lot of QB busts taken early as well.  for me if you identify a true can't miss guy like a luck (or at least that is how you feel) you take him, otherwise look for a decent prospect later in the draft.  If you have to draft a Qb every year or 2nd year so be it but don't force it on a high pick and don't bee too loyal to these later prospects like a Geno.

[CrazyCarl40]

How is your T, WR, or "whatever" not a potential bust? If there is a guy at any position that is a lock to be a 5-10 year starter I'll take him over Mariota, but I don't think one of those magic draft picks exist. Either way your original statement was that we should not take Mariota in the 1st because there are guys who will be available in mid rounds that you think project better.

You're wrong.

That was not my original statement, so there is no point even discussing this further as you evidently do not understand my point. Try this:

Huge Risk Mariota + Random 3rd Round Tackle < Sure thing Right Tackle + 3rd Round QB who could be developed

And opinions can't be wrong. That's kind of how opinions work.

[Hael]

the Jets should take a QB in rd 1 this year, and every year that follows, until they find that good QB. 

 

 

I wish we could do that, but the fact of the matter is in this day and age, you can't.  Any young QB you get is going to rebel against having his replacement picked every draft, and knowing that it takes a few years of effort in developing even the best qbs in the league you can pretty much count on having each pick end up a bust.  I much prefer simply trading picks (even picks in future drafts) in order to wait for 'the guy' and/or rolling the dice on late round project qbs that have great upside.

 

I'm definitely jealous of the Pats.  Garop is an interesting player with a great deal of potential (if he was available, i'd even take him in the first round this year), and he can be coached and groomed without all the pressure of having to do everything instantly. 

[LionelRichie]

And opinions can't be wrong. That's kind of how opinions work.

You've obviously never met my wife.

[jack48]

There's not one QB in this years draft that's worth a first round pick.

I've been saying it for months so it has nothing to do with one game.

 

 

I think Winston will be gone.  I do not like what I have seen of Mariota's arm.  No QB in the first round.  Agree.

[Shockwave]

Just saying.....

 

Trading Wilk for a late first or second rounder and grabbing Williams for example saves you about 40-50million over a 6 year deal or 10m per year. 10 per year is a guy like Iupati. 

[DRJETS]

Cooper isn't a top 10 first rounder so don't go there.

 

I would not be surprise if by the start of the draft, Davante Parker become the Sammy Watkins of this year draft, at the very least Beckham jr. 

[bitonti]

I wish we could do that, but the fact of the matter is in this day and age, you can't.  Any young QB you get is going to rebel against having his replacement picked every draft, and knowing that it takes a few years of effort in developing even the best qbs in the league you can pretty much count on having each pick end up a bust.  

 

if a guy sucks, who cares what he thinks. And yes you can tell in a year if a guy is worth giving more chances. It's not like a big secret. Im not saying win a SB in year 1 but at least give reason to hope. I don't have any hope for Geno and the hope for Sanchez didn't last longer than 2 years. 

[DRJETS]

Cooper wont last to #6, he is only 20 yrs old, still growing...has run unofficial 4.3's at worse he will run 4.4

 

pipe dream

 

His traits are outstanding but nowhere I see 4.3. I could be wrong but his Espn draft analysis unofficial 40 yards is 4.5.

 

 

Amari Cooper

 

• WR
• Junior
• 6-1, 205 lbs
• Alabama

• Scouts Grade94
• Position Rank1
• Overall Rank4
• 40-YD Dash4.5
• ConferenceSEC

2014 NCAA Football Stats

Receptions YDS TDS 124 1727 1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Production 1 2012 (14/9): 59-1,000-16.9-11 2013 (12/7): 45-736-16.4-4 Height-Weight-Speed 2 Average height and weight combination for WR prospect. Has broad shoulders and appears on tape to have longer arms. Top-end speed on tape is good, and shows second gear when tracking ball. Durability 3 In 2013, missed a week of practice during preseason with a foot injury and did not play versus Colorado State because of a toe injury. Intangibles 2 Hard worker and self-starter. Very determined individual. Was admittedly frustrated early in 2013 season and allowed frustration to affect his attitude.

 

1 = EXCEPTIONAL2 = ABOVE AVERAGE3 = AVERAGE4 = BELOW AVERAGE5 = MARGINAL

Wide Receiver Specific Traits

Separation Skills 1 Sudden and quick off the line. Crafty route runner. Advanced separation skills for limited experience, with very little wasted motion. Does a good job of using jab steps and head fakes to set up defenders. Very impressed with his sense for soft spots in zone. Ball Skills 2 Usually demonstrates outstanding concentration in traffic and on jump balls. High points the ball. Tracks the ball over his shoulder exceptionally well, and does a very good job of timing his jumps. Makes tough catches look easy. Only knock here is that he suffers a few too many focus drops. Big play ability 2 Shows an extra gear when ball is in air. Good leaping ability, and wins high percentage of jump balls. Above-average transition quickness after catch, and frequently makes first defender miss. Will occasionally have to gather a bit before making sharp open-field cuts. Open-field elusiveness and run strength are good but not elite. Competitiveness 2 Not afraid to work the middle of the field. Highly competitive when ball is in air. Shows adequate competitiveness and toughness as a blocker.

1 = EXCEPTIONAL2 = ABOVE AVERAGE3 = AVERAGE4 = BELOW AVERAGE5 = MARGINAL

[CrazyCarl40]

You're right, opinions can't be wrong. I just don't get this "sure thing" label. And I think QB needs to be every teams #1 priority.... Not RT.

And please stop believing that there are this stock pile of Russell Wilsons waiting for us in the 3rd round. It happens once every 20 years that some guy slips down the draft and develops into a franchise guy.

QB does need to be priority #1. Doesn't need to be pick #1.

[The Troll]

Just saying.....

Trading Wilk for a late first or second rounder and grabbing Williams for example saves you about 40-50million over a 6 year deal or 10m per year. 10 per year is a guy like Iupati.

Or $10 million a year is a guy like Mo Wilkerson.

It's not like the Jets are up against the cap. We could sign two Peyton Mannings. There is zero need to trade arguably the best player on the team. None whatsoever.

[BroadwayJoe12]

That was not my original statement, so there is no point even discussing this further as you evidently do not understand my point. Try this:

Huge Risk Mariota + Random 3rd Round Tackle < Sure thing Right Tackle + 3rd Round QB who could be developed

And opinions can't be wrong. That's kind of how opinions work.

 

The giant difference is that a 3rd round Tackle is significantly more likely to be a consistent starter than a 3rd round QB, and the percentages aren't even close. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

Just saying.....

 

Trading Wilk for a late first or second rounder and grabbing Williams for example saves you about 40-50million over a 6 year deal or 10m per year. 10 per year is a guy like Iupati. 

 

You're going to trade arguably our best defensive player for a draft pick and a $10 million guard?  Not that I disagree with signing Iupati, but why are we paying him 20% more than the highest paid guards?  

 

Smart play would be to give Mo a contract extension and sign Iupati.  We've got $50 mill in cap space, no reason to lose one of our best players for more cap space.

[CrazyCarl40]

You're right, like the saying goes... It's a right tackle driven league

And when Mariota busts, then what?

[CrazyCarl40]

The giant difference is that a 3rd round Tackle is significantly more likely to be a consistent starter than a 3rd round QB, and the percentages aren't even close.

Okay. And the percentages of a bust of a first round QB is just as high.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Okay. And the percentages of a bust of a first round QB is just as high.

 

If you're talking about drafting a QB in the first compared to the later rounds, it's not even remotely close. You find elite quarterbacks in the first round, everything else is an absolute crapshoot. It's been mentioned throughout the history of the draft, but no one ever seems to listen. This whole idea of "just draft the sure thing first and pick up some 3rd-4th rounder to develop" is total bullsh*t, it just doesn't happen on any type of predictable basis. Here, FO does a decent job breaking it down, but the bottom line is if you have a first round grade on a QB, you take it. 

 

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/nfl-draft-round-round-quarterback-data

[HessStation]

Seriously. You. People. Disgust me. 

[CrazyCarl40]

Please listen to CrazyCarl..... The cream of the crop is found in the 3rd and 4th rounds when it comes to QB, and Mariota is a bust already, before he even took of his Oregon jersey.

Dude, he knows.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said the cream of the crop is found in the 3rd and 4th round. I said if you're going to draft a guy to hold a clipboard for a few years don't do it at 6 overall, do it at 106 or 206. It's the way I think it should be done.

And if that doesn't work, they'll be in position to grab a first round QB this year. There isn't one available in the first round this year that can change your franchise. And many scouts agree with that sentiment. Many say it's a bad year for QBs. You don't agree. Cool. I get it. You're entitled to that opinion.

[CrazyCarl40]

Dude, if you could lend your crystal ball to Woody our next few drafts could be epic. Think about the team...

If they had listened to me two years ago, we wouldn't be saddled with Geno. That's for sure.

[CrazyCarl40]

Ok, sorry for belaboring the point, I know Mariota is not a lock, it's just the upside that is rare. He won't get out of the first round.

No he won't. That we agree on. And he does have upside, but the arm and the offense he'll bed to run are question marks.

[Powpow]

If they had listened to me two years ago, we wouldn't be saddled with Geno. That's for sure.

You have my FULL attention from here on. 

[RSJ]

Hopefully the Jets fill out the roster with solid free agents along with one or two young big named guys. This way they can draft BPA. I am also pretty convinced that Geno can be salvageable with the right coaching and at the very least good enough to win with the right guys around him.

[patman]

I think Mariota will develop into a better version of Kapernick, and most Jets fans would give their left nut for Kap... not me but most fans. I highly doubt Mariota is available past the late 1st round, so we take him at 6 or nothing.

 

Guys like this don't come around often. 6' 4", strong arm, fast and athletic, smart... that's an important one, and everyone RAVES about his character and leadership. To be that talented and not a diva is rare.

 

The facts are simple....  that weird Chip Kelly system hurt his pro development. He needs a year on the bench (like Kap and a lot of other good QB's had) behind a guy like Matt Hasselbeck and or Michael Vick. We need an OC who can develop him and has a track record with young QB's.

 

We have so many other holes to fill it's not like we are winning the SB next year. A veteran QB can make us competitive while we rebuild our O-line and secondary. The 2016 NY Jets will hopefully be a much more solid team for a young future franchise QB to take over. I know it's not common  to take a QB top 10 and let him sit, but Eli was a #1 overall and sat his rookie year (until the post season was out of reach), Rodgers obviously sat a couple of years, Carson Palmer sat his rookie year and looked like a season pro once he became starter, Kap sat..... although he was a 2nd rounder. Still a high pick relatively speaking.

 

We need a long term solution and a kid like this is the way to go. Most upside of any QB I've seen since Luck, and all the same intangibles. Sadly he is no where near as NFL ready as #12... but who is?

 

I know everyone wants a guy who can make an immediate impact @ #6. Normally that's the goal for any 1st rounder. BUT, we haven't had a decent QB since Pennington, and we haven't had an elite QB in almost 40 years. If we were one or two players away I would say take Cooper, but frankly I don't think he is a future elite receiver.... he will be very good, but he's simply not an AJ Green, Megatron, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant caliber player, and never will be.

 

Unless we trade for Foles, who is also young and has amazing upside, we will simply end up with a worn out veteran anyway. So why not use this opportunity in 2015 to bring in a game changer and develop him properly?

Behind Mike Vick, the same guy that said he was not prepared to play and appeared dis-interested?  This past year he committed 16 acts of grand larceny to go on his record with killing dogs.