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Deflate-Gate \ Patriots Cheating Again Thread: MERGED


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I really think the fans and media have been had. I base this soley on the reports coming out now that the initial sources stating that there existed a 2 psi discrepacy was inaccurate. If this is truly the case the NFL (Goodell) should have immediately clarified this fact because it would have changed the temperament of the conversation. These facts were known immediately and didn't need an investigation to declare these facts. Interestingly Kraft stated that the NFL and media will need to apologize. Trust me Kraft knows exactly what the psi was ( ie. 1 psi) Get ready people we are gonna be made to grovel becaused we argued on false presumptions. The real question now is why did Goodell or Kraft allow the lie (error) to carry on.

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Bill Nye already debunked Belichick's bs explanation about climate change or whatever.  Why is this even a discussion still?

 

The Pats cheated and the NFL commissioner is a joke who won't do anything about it.  End.

Bill Nye comes across like a whinny, crying Jets fan.

A respected, world-renowned MIT professor just provided the "facts" to make him look like a fool.

Again, where is the concrete evidence that the Pats cheated?

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Bill Nye comes across like a whinny, crying Jets fan.

A respected, world-renowned MIT professor just provided the "facts" to make him look like a fool.

Again, where is the concrete evidence that the Pats cheated?

Yeah we should all trust the New England Patriots fan from MIT.

 

11 of the 12 balls were underinflated.  There's all the evidence.  Can't you find a Seattle Seahawks messageboard to waste your time at?  Your act is tired.

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Bill Nye already debunked Belichick's bs explanation about climate change or whatever.  Why is this even a discussion still?

 

The Pats cheated and the NFL commissioner is a joke who won't do anything about it.  End.

 

Actually, what I saw of Bill Nye's remarks was nothing more than him stating his opinion. No calculations or testing. So his remarks fall under the "declarations of authorities" label, and really debunk nothing.

 

Now the case of Neil Degrasse Tyson is different. He did do a calculation, but he did it wrong. So his remarks don't put the case to rest either.

 

Now the MIT professor quoted in the Times piece did the calculation correctly. In fact, there is a picture of his whiteboard shown in the piece, and that whiteboard does in fact show a correctly done calculation. But unfortunately, the calculation used the incorrect outside temperature. He used 45 deg F, when the correct outside temp was 51 deg F during the 1st half. But the value of the pressure drop shown on the white board (with the inflammatory remark "no evidence of cheating"), 1.18 psi, is indeed what you get in dropping from 68 deg F to 45 deg F. Unfortunately, even using a too-low outside temperature does not get the 2 psi drop of the balls.

 

We can conclude that the ideal gas law does provide evidence of cheating. But a properly done experiment, unlike the experiment reported by Headsmart, would be much better.

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I really think the fans and media have been had. I base this soley on the reports coming out now that the initial sources stating that there existed a 2 psi discrepacy was inaccurate. If this is truly the case the NFL (Goodell) should have immediately clarified this fact because it would have changed the temperament of the conversation. These facts were known immediately and didn't need an investigation to declare these facts. Interestingly Kraft stated that the NFL and media will need to apologize. Trust me Kraft knows exactly what the psi was ( ie. 1 psi) Get ready people we are gonna be made to grovel becaused we argued on false presumptions. The real question now is why did Goodell or Kraft allow the lie (error) to carry on.

This, by far, is the best post in a 99 page thread. Well said.

BTW, does Max get paid by thread page count from his advertisers?

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Actually, what I saw of Bill Nye's remarks was nothing more than him stating his opinion. No calculations or testing. So his remarks fall under the "declarations of authorities" label, and really debunk nothing.

 

Now the case of Neil Degrasse Tyson is different. He did do a calculation, but he did it wrong. So his remarks don't put the case to rest either.

 

Now the MIT professor quoted in the Times piece did the calculation correctly. In fact, there is a picture of his whiteboard shown in the piece, and that whiteboard does in fact show a correctly done calculation. But unfortunately, the calculation used the incorrect outside temperature. He used 45 deg F, when the correct outside temp was 51 deg F during the 1st half. But the value of the pressure drop shown on the white board (with the inflammatory remark "no evidence of cheating"), 1.18 psi, is indeed what you get in dropping from 68 deg F to 45 deg F. Unfortunately, even using a too-low outside temperature does not get the 2 psi drop of the balls.

 

We can conclude that the ideal gas law does provide evidence of cheating. But a properly done experiment, unlike the experiment reported by Headsmart, would be much better.

Okay then how come the Indianapolis Colts balls weren't also underinflated below 12.5 PSI?  Same geographic location, same temperature and conditions yet they're balls were in regulation and almost all of the Pats balls weren't.  How come the Ravens' coaching staff noticed the balls the patriots were using the previous week were underinflated? 

 

This nonsense by a Patriots fan at MIT makes the magic bullet theory look reasonable.

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Bill Nye comes across like a whinny, crying Jets fan.

A respected, world-renowned MIT professor just provided the "facts" to make him look like a fool.

Again, where is the concrete evidence that the Pats cheated?

43288569.jpg

I really think the fans and media have been had. I base this soley on the reports coming out now that the initial sources stating that there existed a 2 psi discrepacy was inaccurate. If this is truly the case the NFL (Goodell) should have immediately clarified this fact because it would have changed the temperament of the conversation. These facts were known immediately and didn't need an investigation to declare these facts. Interestingly Kraft stated that the NFL and media will need to apologize. Trust me Kraft knows exactly what the psi was ( ie. 1 psi) Get ready people we are gonna be made to grovel becaused we argued on false presumptions. The real question now is why did Goodell or Kraft allow the lie (error) to carry on.

It wasn't inaccurate. The NFL and Goodell are in full cover-up mode, as any business would be in their position.

Be assured, no one owes these modern day Black Sox any apologies.

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Okay then how come the Indianapolis Colts balls weren't also underinflated below 12.5 PSI?  How come the Ravens' coaching staff noticed the balls the patriots were using the previous week were underinflated? 

 

This nonsense by a Patriots fan at MIT makes the magic bullet theory look reasonable.

 

The only reasonable explanation for the Colts' balls not being underinflated I can think of is that they started at the upper limit of what was legal, 13.5 psi. Then when the natural 1 psi deflation happened, they're still legal at 12.5 psi.

 

Another possibility is that the balls did not have enough time in the outside air to drop to the same temperature as the air. Based on what Peter King of MMQB has reported, the balls are taken to the field just a few minutes before kickoff. That might mean the balls were outside only for the duration of the 1st half which was , what, an hour and a half? Guess it's possible the balls might not have reached air temperature by that time.

 

Of course, that would be even worse for the Pats, since then not even 1 psi of natural deflation would have occured. But this does show that experiments are needed.

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The only reasonable explanation for the Colts' ball not being underinflated I can think of is that they started at the upper limit of what was legal, 13.5 psi. Then when the natural 1 psi deflation happened, they're still legal at 12.5 psi.

There is no reasonable explanation other than maybe the Easter bunny did it.

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I still haven't seen a shred of evidence that the Patriots were directly involved with anything.

When everything is all said and done with the investigation, there will be no fines or lost draft picks and the NFL will apologize to the Pats for this undeserved witch hunt.

 

So true. When everyone else is at fault except the Pats it's like the whole world has to apologize to the Pats. It's only fair.

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43288569.jpgIt wasn't inaccurate. The NFL and Goodell are in full cover-up mode, as any business would be in their position.Be assured, no one owes these modern day Black Sox any apologies.

Just get ready for the media onslaught particularly if they win the SB. You won't have enough toilet paper for the brown nosing and ass kissing. The conclusion is so obviously clear now. The only flamethrowers will be those reporters who will skewer the NFL and Goodell for allowing certain media outlets, ex- players, and fans to dig their own grave based on false presumptions that the NFL knew to be false but let it magnify and not clarify. All under the silly cover - there is an ongoing investigation.

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Hey the M@sshole MIT professor also gave a scientific explanation showing Global Warming is the reason why Manny and Big Papi both tested positive for steroids.

Max Tegmark was born and grew up in Sweden.

He graduated from UC Berkley.

He doesn't know the difference from a Patriot player to that of a Red Sox player.

His unbiased, scientific analysis, clearly exonerates anything the Pats were accused of regarding the footballs.

Find something else to cry about.

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Max Tegmark was born and grew up in Sweden.

He graduated from UC Berkley.

He doesn't know the difference from a Patriot player to that of a Red Sox player.

His unbiased, scientific analysis, clearly exonerates anything the Pats were accused of regarding the footballs.

Find something else to cry about.

 

He probably isn't biased. But he used the wrong outside temperature in his calculation. And even the result he got came out too low to explain a 2 psi drop.

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He probably isn't biased. But he used the wrong outside temperature in his calculation. And even the result he got came out too low to explain a 2 psi drop.

 

The guy should be fired from MIT.  He made a 7th grade science mistake. Some expert witness!

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I really think the fans and media have been had. I base this soley on the reports coming out now that the initial sources stating that there existed a 2 psi discrepacy was inaccurate.

 

It could've been 3 PSI.

 

Nothing changes the fact that 11 Patriot balls were deliberately deflated below regulation.

 

12 Indy balls stayed correctly inflated. 

 

The Pats are convicted cheaters who used illegal substitutions against the Ravens and have no business being in Arizona.

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The Pats are convicted cheaters who used illegal substitutions against the Ravens and have no business being in Arizona.

Ah, yet another Jets fan who does not know the the rule book.

Is it illegal all the times the Jets try and sneak 12 players on the field?

Do you and Jim Harbaugh have the same low IQ?

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Ah, yet another Jets fan who does not know the the rule book.

Is it illegal all the times the Jets try and sneak 12 players on the field?

Do you and Jim Harbaugh have the same low IQ?

 

 

Here fuktard. Learn how to read or have your fat-assed bovine slob wife read it for you:

 

 

“The NFL is going to have to do something about the Patriots’ ineligible-eligible substitution game,” former NFL head coach and current NBC Sports analyst Tony Dungy told PFT by email on Friday. “It is nothing but an intent to deceive and they are doing it very well.  They’re reporting so fast and going so quickly the defense can’t respond.  In fact, the officials can’t keep up.”

 

“In the Baltimore game, [shane] Vereen reported as ineligible several times,” Dungy explained. “If he stays in the game he must report again and continue to be ineligible. He must come out of the game for one play or there has to be a time out for him to play as an eligible receiver. On the touchdown drive Vereen played one play as ineligible and then played the next play in an eligible position. There should have been a penalty.”

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Actually, what I saw of Bill Nye's remarks was nothing more than him stating his opinion. No calculations or testing. So his remarks fall under the "declarations of authorities" label, and really debunk nothing.

 

Now the case of Neil Degrasse Tyson is different. He did do a calculation, but he did it wrong. So his remarks don't put the case to rest either.

 

Now the MIT professor quoted in the Times piece did the calculation correctly. In fact, there is a picture of his whiteboard shown in the piece, and that whiteboard does in fact show a correctly done calculation. But unfortunately, the calculation used the incorrect outside temperature. He used 45 deg F, when the correct outside temp was 51 deg F during the 1st half. But the value of the pressure drop shown on the white board (with the inflammatory remark "no evidence of cheating"), 1.18 psi, is indeed what you get in dropping from 68 deg F to 45 deg F. Unfortunately, even using a too-low outside temperature does not get the 2 psi drop of the balls.

 

We can conclude that the ideal gas law does provide evidence of cheating. But a properly done experiment, unlike the experiment reported by Headsmart, would be much better.

 

yes, but he is assuming a 68 degree temp, but the balls were according to BB inflated and broken in the lockeroom.  My guess that the lockeroom with people dressing getting therapy etc is more warmer than that

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It could've been 3 PSI.

 

Nothing changes the fact that 11 Patriot balls were deliberately deflated below regulation.

 

12 Indy balls stayed correctly inflated. 

 

The Pats are convicted cheaters who used illegal substitutions against the Ravens and have no business being in Arizona.

 

 

That is the bottom line.   Doesn't make a difference if it was -30.  The Colts balls were fine, and some one let the air out of the Pats balls.  Besides the refs, only Pats employee's handled them. 

 

Game over

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The only reasonable explanation for the Colts' balls not being underinflated I can think of is that they started at the upper limit of what was legal, 13.5 psi. Then when the natural 1 psi deflation happened, they're still legal at 12.5 psi.

 

Another possibility is that the balls did not have enough time in the outside air to drop to the same temperature as the air. Based on what Peter King of MMQB has reported, the balls are taken to the field just a few minutes before kickoff. That might mean the balls were outside only for the duration of the 1st half which was , what, an hour and a half? Guess it's possible the balls might not have reached air temperature by that time.

 

Of course, that would be even worse for the Pats, since then not even 1 psi of natural deflation would have occured. But this does show that experiments are needed.

 

What you have to consider is that the Colts may very well have inflated the balls in the visitors equipment room outside of the visitors locker room, that area or the hallway leading outside is not heated and If they filled the balls to closer to the upper limit (like rogers and others prefer) they would be no psi drop associated with temp change.

Now they still would be a PSI drop associated with the volume increase of the ball due to the leather swelling as it absorbs the water/rain but that swelling would only account for a .4-.7 psi drop, not enough to bring the colt balls under the 12.5 min.

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Do you have proof of that? I could "check with a gauge" if there is no proof that I did.

I had sex with Pam Anderson in 1994. Prove that!

This isn't a criminal case where a lawyer has to just cause reasonable doubt. It's not even close actually. You pansy fans who think this needs to go down like a criminal court case are delusional

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yes, but he is assuming a 68 degree temp, but the balls were according to BB inflated and broken in the lockeroom.  My guess that the lockeroom with people dressing getting therapy etc is more warmer than that

Trouble is, in New England thermostat temps are generally set low. I think 68 deg is a reasonable assumption. But even the drop from 70 deg would still give much less than a 2 psi drop. In fact, to get a 2 psi drop the balls would have to start from a temp in the 90's.

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This isn't a criminal case where a lawyer has to just cause reasonable doubt. It's not even close actually. You pansy fans who think this needs to go down like a criminal court case are delusional

Necky, wake up and smell the coffee.

All the evidence exonerates the Pats.

Find something else to cry about while you watch the Pats play in yet another Super Bowl.

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But the colts locker room doesnt have "people dressing getting therapy etc"?

Yes, certainly and I am not saying that the colts did or did not inflate their balls inside the lockeroom as I was not there. The question was what would account for the colts balls not experiencing

the same psi drop as the patriot balls. The Ideal Gas laws are clear there are only four variables. I locked on one dealing with temp as I can not do differential equations to account for the non lineal nature of the vessel expanding as opposed to being in a glass vessel. My premise was that if the colts filled the footballs outside the locker room or outdoors there would be no PSI drop associated with the temp delta as the delta would not exist.  

 

I latched onto this premise as I have toured Gillette and like many stadiums/Ballparks arenas the visitors locker room is much smaller than the home teams as it should as they are only there for 6 hours a week and the home lockeroom is used for 7 days a week. I was thinking that due to the lack of space the equipment guys may do more prep outside the room than they would normally do at thier home stadium. 

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What you have to consider is that the Colts may very well have inflated the balls in the visitors equipment room outside of the visitors locker room, that area or the hallway leading outside is not heated and If they filled the balls to closer to the upper limit (like rogers and others prefer) they would be no psi drop associated with temp change.

Now they still would be a PSI drop associated with the volume increase of the ball due to the leather swelling as it absorbs the water/rain but that swelling would only account for a .4-.7 psi drop, not enough to bring the colt balls under the 12.5 min.

 

I do not think absorption of water by the balls has been demonstrated. It is true the Headsmart lab did a test with the balls being wetted, but they did not report the result without wetting, so we don't really know what effect the water may have. There needs to be an experiment similar to the one reported by the Headsmart guys, but using a more realistic starting temp, like 68 deg, not the 75 deg outlandish temp that they used.

 

But hey, you seem to be giving an explanation that implies the Pats cheated. I like it!

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Trouble is, in New England thermostat temps are generally set low. I think 68 deg is a reasonable assumption. But even the drop from 70 deg would still give much less than a 2 psi drop. In fact, to get a 2 psi drop the balls would have to start from a temp in the 90's.

How do you know what temp the patriots lockeroom is at. 68 degrees- are you kidding me? A bunch of spoiled brat pro athletes that don't even carry luggage are going to have a lockerroom at 68?  Maybe 68 degrees in August with the AC blasting.  I understand that you guys think kraft is cheap, but this is crazy.

 

And as far as a 2lb psi drop I can't get there even with a  wet ball and a temp variation of 30 degrees, it only comes to 1.7 lbs. But as a Patriot fan I am just as likely to believe that the ball the colts had thier hands on showed more variation than the other 11.(according to PFT)  The colts had possession of the ball for the period of time after the interception until it was given to the refs you can not eliminate the possibility that someone on the colts sideline deflated the ball even more to make the complaint more pronounced.

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I do not think absorption of water by the balls has been demonstrated. It is true the Headsmart lab did a test with the balls being wetted, but they did not report the result without wetting, so we don't really know what effect the water may have. There needs to be an experiment similar to the one reported by the Headsmart guys, but using a more realistic starting temp, like 68 deg, not the 75 deg outlandish temp that they used.

 

But hey, you seem to be giving an explanation that implies the Pats cheated. I like it!

 

Wilson treats the leather to repel water. The ball boy kept them dry with bags and towels.  Were all 11 deflated Patriot balls used equally in the first half?   

 

This scientific witch hunt is going off into "LAPD murdered Nicole Brown" territory.

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