Rexorcism Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Lots of great stuff in this thread. A question that I am not sure were mentioned yet. How did BB study the ball process for a week when Thursday he stated that the media should "Ask Tom about the footballs" because he has "No idea"? This was honestly the most bizarre news conference I have ever seen. What exactly was BB trying to accomplish? It was his way of Throwing shlt on the wall hoping it would stick and trudging thru a few more questions so he can be done with it...He will now never answer another question about it...The Patriot Way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexorcism Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Yes the Pats are a joke. Goodell a lawyer is orchestrating this BS. Sure looks like it...Goodell is scum also...F them all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I hate when the governemt gets involved in things - but with such overwhelming support across the country for the idea that the Pats cheat, I am surprised a congressman hasn't hitched his wagon to this one yet. It seems that is the only way to get these organizations to conduct a correct investigation. Whether it be steroids or Ray Rice. The only way they investigate something correctly is when the government gets involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastmover Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 yes your point is valid. but oxygen near fuels ? yikes. Not 100% pure oxygen, oxygen as in the air we breath, just regular old compressed air. Should of been a little more clear. Semper Fi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaumerJet Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 was it me or did it sound a lot like Sean Payton speech before the New Orleans Super Bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Not 100% pure oxygen, oxygen as in the air we breath, just regular old compressed air. Should of been a little more clear. Semper Fi phew, that's cool, oxygen can be tricky stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeaniec Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 They can talk all they want. This is going to be the week from hell for them. The media is going to push this story to no end. Media week is going to better than the game itself. You're right. Just a side note, BB looked like he was stressed to the limit in the conference. If he or his team did nothing wrong, what's the worry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I am still waiting for an explanation on how the one the 1 out of 12 Patriots balls and all 12 Colts ball survive the phenomena of atmospheric conditions described by Belicheat. The rule says the ball should be inflated between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. The Colts' balls may have started at 13;5 psi and dropped to 12.5 psi, keeping their balls within the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAJetsFan Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The answers depend a lot on the inflation the balls had at the start. The rule says balls should be inflated to 12.5 psi to 13.5 psi. In the press conference, Bellichik said the Pats asked the officials to inflate them to 12.5 psi. Is it possible the Colts asked the officials to inflate them to 13.5 psi? This is the argument that is driving me nuts. It is certainly possible for them to be set different at the start. But if they each lost 2 psi by halftime then all the Colts balls would have tested short 1 psi. Instead they tested in range. Perhaps your next arguement can be the Colts overinflated their balls after the refs signed off on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 This is the argument that is driving me nuts. It is certainly possible for them to be set different at the start. But if they each lost 2 psi by halftime then all the Colts balls would have tested short 1 psi. Instead they tested in range. Perhaps your next arguement can be the Colts overinflated their balls after the refs signed off on them? No. The next argument is based on Bellichik's press conference today. He said the Pats' ball prep procedure raised the ball pressure 1 psi. So, 1 psi pressure drop due to the inside vs. outside temperature difference, plus 1 psi pressure drop due to the Pats' ball prep procedure gives the measured 2 psi drop. Bot someone other than the Pats needs to confirm their ball prep procedure causes a 1 psi increase in the ball's internal air pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 You're right. Just a side note, BB looked like he was stressed to the limit in the conference. If he or his team did nothing wrong, what's the worry? Because they know that this is serious stuff and people are looking at the underbelly of the Pats boarderline practices. Also Brady's previous performance was awful. There is a reason why the Pats leaked today that Brady was outraged today because any lying expert will tell you that an innocent person will display outrage at the accusation, will offer thoughts of who might be the guilty party and never say they may have inadvertently been involved. Brady did the opposite of this in that press conference and I believe that this is what precipitated BB "spontaneous" press conference. Anyone wanting to see this for themselves can look at one of this country's leading lying expert dissect how to detect lying and you will know without question that Brady and Bellichick both told significant untruths in their first press conferences and that today was damage control plain and simple. Check out Pamela Meyer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y8m695bYMU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAJetsFan Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 No. The next argument is based on Bellichik's press conference today. He said the Pats' ball prep procedure raised the ball pressure 1 psi. So, 1 psi pressure drop due to the inside vs. outside temperature difference, plus 1 psi pressure drop due to the Pats' ball prep procedure gives the measured 2 psi drop. Bot someone other than the Pats needs to confirm their ball prep procedure causes a 1 psi increase in the ball's internal air pressure. The colts balls stayed in range for the entire 4 hours. If time is a component of this new science then surely they would have been short by the end of 4 hours, no? And if the Pats balls were reinflated to their requested 12.5 then at the end of the game shouldn't they have been short again, granted by only 1 psi? Or did the refs go rouge at the half and inflate all 24 to 13.5 psi? Because if the ludicrous 1 psi per half loss is an agreed upon number then that is the only way they would all test good at the end of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The rule says the ball should be inflated between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. The Colts' balls may have started at 13;5 psi and dropped to 12.5 psi, keeping their balls within the rules. And what did the Pats ball drop from and to ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 No. The next argument is based on Bellichik's press conference today. He said the Pats' ball prep procedure raised the ball pressure 1 psi. So, 1 psi pressure drop due to the inside vs. outside temperature difference, plus 1 psi pressure drop due to the Pats' ball prep procedure gives the measured 2 psi drop. Bot someone other than the Pats needs to confirm their ball prep procedure causes a 1 psi increase in the ball's internal air pressure. his press conference came down to this "I looked into it, and we're good. trust me" LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strongman Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Did anyone notice on Thursday, Belicheat said, "Obviously with our footballs being inflated to the 12.5-pound range, any deflation would then take us under that specification limit. Knowing that now, in the future we will certainly inflate the footballs above that low level to account for any possible change during the game.” But on Saturday, he said something a little different:On Saturday, Belichick said the officials, and not the team, inflates the footballs.“When the footballs are delivered to the officials’ locker room, the officials were asked to inflate them to 12.5 PSI. What exactly they did, I don’t know. But for the purposes of our study, that’s what we did. We set them at 12.5. That’s at the discretion of the official, though. Regardless of what we ask for, it’s the official’s discretion to put them where he wants.” Now up until Saturday's presser, everything on the web and the various news reports suggested that the teams fill their game balls and hand it over to the officials to check, and then the teams get their balls back before the game. Something doesn't seem right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeaniec Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Because they know that this is serious stuff and people are looking at the underbelly of the Pats boarderline practices. Also Brady's previous performance was awful. There is a reason why the Pats leaked today that Brady was outraged today because any lying expert will tell you that an innocent person will display outrage at the accusation, will offer thoughts of who might be the guilty party and never say they may have inadvertently been involved. Brady did the opposite of this in that press conference and I believe that this is what precipitated BB "spontaneous" press conference. Anyone wanting to see this for themselves can look at one of this country's leading lying expert dissect how to detect lying and you will know without question that Brady and Bellichick both told significant untruths in their first press conferences and that today was damage control plain and simple. Check out Pamela Meyer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y8m695bYMU Thank you for sharing. Really interesting information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeaniec Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Did anyone notice on Thursday, Belicheat said, "Obviously with our footballs being inflated to the 12.5-pound range, any deflation would then take us under that specification limit. Knowing that now, in the future we will certainly inflate the footballs above that low level to account for any possible change during the game.” But on Saturday, he said something a little different: On Saturday, Belichick said the officials, and not the team, inflates the footballs. “When the footballs are delivered to the officials’ locker room, the officials were asked to inflate them to 12.5 PSI. What exactly they did, I don’t know. But for the purposes of our study, that’s what we did. We set them at 12.5. That’s at the discretion of the official, though. Regardless of what we ask for, it’s the official’s discretion to put them where he wants.” Now up until Saturday's presser, everything on the web and the various news reports suggested that the teams fill their game balls and hand it over to the officials to check, and then the teams get their balls back before the game. Something doesn't seem right. I agree, something is wrong here. Also, there should have been consistency (on behalf of the refs) to fill both teams' balls the same and I believe they did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeaniec Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I am still waiting for an explanation on how the one the 1 out of 12 Patriots balls and all 12 Colts ball survive the phenomena of atmospheric conditions described by Beliche I think the 1 ball was not deflated so it could be used if someone challenged or wanted to weigh their ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 You can only hope and pray. Otherwise, your head might explode if the Pats win a fourth SB in your lifetime when you may never see the Jets even play in one. Belichick and Brady better hope they win won. Because if they both retire with 0 post spygate Super Bowls, that would be a big black eye. In the shape of an asterisk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I think the 1 ball was not deflated so it could be used if someone challenged or wanted to weigh their ball. Yup yup...you hit the nail right on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Belichick and Brady better hope they win won. Because if they both retire with 0 post spygate Super Bowls, that would be a big black eye. In the shape of an asterisk. If they win now this has to be even a bigger asterisk. If I am a NFL owner right now I am hoping Pats lose. Because a Pats win might even be enough to take the sheen off the Super Bowl event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeaniec Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Belichick and Brady better hope they win won. Because if they both retire with 0 post spygate Super Bowls, that would be a big black eye. In the shape of an asterisk. I do think pretty boy (TB) is going to retire after this year too. He could care less about the NFL. He made his money. We need TB and BB out of the NFL. They're destroying the reputation of a great game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Belichick and Brady better hope they win won. Because if they both retire with 0 post spygate Super Bowls, that would be a big black eye. In the shape of an asterisk. They are winnning next week. And we are going to spend the rest of our lives denying the legitimacy of it. Just accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 They are winnning next week. And we are going to spend the rest of our lives denying the legitimacy of it. Just accept it. Nope. Seattle will repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The rule says the ball should be inflated between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. The Colts' balls may have started at 13;5 psi and dropped to 12.5 psi, keeping their balls within the rules. Except the pats balls dropped 2 psi. So the Colts balls should have also dropped 2 psi leaving them 1 psi under the accepted range. It's bs. The ******* pats cheated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hael Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Except the pats balls dropped 2 psi. So the Colts balls should have also dropped 2 psi leaving them 1 psi under the accepted range. It's bs. The ******* pats cheated. You didn't watch the presser. New England preps their balls a certain way during the week that Indie might now, by squeezing, hard practice (in varying conditions), dirtying the ball up, etc. A way that is perfectly legal and seemingly benign. This has the net effect of adding (not subtracting) 1 psi to the balls as well as getting the ball textured up the way Tom likes. If the Refs then, during game day, 'normalize' the ball by removing a few psi to get to the minimum 12.5 psi. You then have a situation where upon changing environmental conditions, not only does the ball drop the 1psi that practice gave it to 11.5 psi, you then have an additional possibility of variance by the weather, which can be on the order of +/-a few psi. In other words, you have all the variance necessary to account for the difference between NE balls and Indy balls. In fact, you could probably replicate this experiment with balls at your own home. And in fact this is exactly what happens with tires in cold weather as anyone who lives in a cold climate can attest too. The million dollar question is, whether the Pats knew this beforehand and did the procedure intentionally, or whether it was just a procedure with an unintended consequence. As a general rule with a hypothesis that you are unsure off: 'Never ascribe to malice, that which can be instead written of as incompetence' Anyway, im willing to give the benefit of the doubt to NE unless real evidence is provided of a willful neglect of the rules. Of course I still think they should be fined, but it's a different level than some of the vitriol being talked about in the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 You didn't watch the presser. New England preps their balls a certain way during the week that Indie might now, by squeezing, hard practice (in varying conditions), dirtying the ball up, etc. A way that is perfectly legal and seemingly benign. This has the net effect of adding (not subtracting) 1 psi to the balls as well as getting the ball textured up the way Tom likes. If the Refs then, during game day, 'normalize' the ball by removing a few psi to get to the minimum 12.5 psi. You then have a situation where upon changing environmental conditions, not only does the ball drop the 1psi that practice gave it to 11.5 psi, you then have an additional possibility of variance by the weather, which can be on the order of +/-a few psi. In other words, you have all the variance necessary to account for the difference between NE balls and Indy balls. In fact, you could probably replicate this experiment with balls at your own home. And in fact this is exactly what happens with tires in cold weather as anyone who lives in a cold climate can attest too. The million dollar question is, whether the Pats knew this beforehand and did the procedure intentionally, or whether it was just a procedure with an unintended consequence. As a general rule with a hypothesis that you are unsure off: 'Never ascribe to malice, that which can be instead written of as incompetence' Anyway, im willing to give the benefit of the doubt to NE unless real evidence is provided of a willful neglect of the rules. Of course I still think they should be fined, but it's a different level than some of the vitriol being talked about in the media. Bullsh*t. Pressure in the ball can be affected in 3 ways. Temperature of the air inside, increasing or decreasing the size of the container (ball) the air is in, or by manually increasing the pressure by forcing more air into the same size container. Whatever bullsh*t procedure bellicheat is trying to tell us is increasing the psi by 1 will have to have done so by increasing the temperature. Even if this is so (which I am highly skeptical of anyway) the temperature of the balls would not be elevated anymore by the time the refs got them on game day to check them out 2 hours ahead of kickoff. Unless the pats are handing the refs balls with intentionally elevated temperatures. Of the other 2 ways to affect the pressure one is impossible (unless you believe bellicheat can magically shrink footballs only to magically unshrink them when they are on the sideline. Maybe he is in fact not a Mona Lisa Vito but instead a bona-fide wayne szalinski). The only other way for the pressures to be manipulated would be manually with a pin and air pump. Hence the fact that someone let te god damned air out of the footballs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68JET11 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 +1, how many Jets fans on this board were alive in 1969? If they were, other than Savage and 13, they where all in diapers. Count me in as another one, I was 11 when they won SB3, and you and Yaz and the rest of your NE cronies are full of crap. Do yourself a favor and stay up on the NE boards, because none of what you're coach and QA are spewing is believed by anyone in the USA or the rest of the world, except for your tiny corner of NE. Proud to be a JET fan and always will be. Here's to Seattle kicking your ASS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuidoYastrzemski Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Belichick and Brady better hope they win won. Because if they both retire with 0 post spygate Super Bowls, that would be a big black eye. In the shape of an asterisk. Not true. Either way the Pats can't succeed in Jets fan's eyes. Lose, and they'll say, 'See. can't win withouth cheating." Win, and they'll clamour " They only win because they CHEAT!" (of course, no body has any data on what pressure every other team's balls in the leaugue are pre-game and post game, other than the Pats. ) I do think pretty boy (TB) is going to retire after this year too. He could care less about the NFL. He made his money. We need TB and BB out of the NFL. They're destroying the reputation of a great game. This is just wishful thinking, just like all the "cheating" accusations, because thusfar very few have been able to beat the Pats with any consistancy. Brady will be in the game for as long as he can play effectively,likely several more years. He certainly won't hang it up next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 just thought of one other way bellicheat and the deflatriots could have managed this. he has discovered a way to manipulate the atmospheric pressure around the football. the man is obviously a genius hey billy boy, nice presser. if you can't dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with bullsh*t right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Tell us Ray, why injuries and the refs caused your team to go from a sure fire playoff-bound conference winner to a moribund 4-12? You forgot the one where the sun was in Decker's eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmaster2 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The answers depend a lot on the inflation the balls had at the start. The rule says balls should be inflated to 12.5 psi to 13.5 psi. In the press conference, Bellichik said the Pats asked the officials to inflate them to 12.5 psi. Is it possible the Colts asked the officials to inflate them to 13.5 psi? Do the rules really allow discretion for the teams to request any desired inflation between the limits? As far as the balls staying right after halftime, it may be due to the balls already being at a low temperature due to being out in the cold in the first half, then only brought in for re-inflation for a short while. So very little extra cooling down in the second half. Hey, I'm not saying the Pats didn't cheat. But it would be really important to know whether the officials inflate all the balls the same or whether they really do have discretion to inflate to different levels as requested by the teams. The answers depend a lot on the inflation the balls had at the start. The rule says balls should be inflated to 12.5 psi to 13.5 psi. In the press conference, Bellichik said the Pats asked the officials to inflate them to 12.5 psi. Is it possible the Colts asked the officials to inflate them to 13.5 psi? Do the rules really allow discretion for the teams to request any desired inflation between the limits? As far as the balls staying right after halftime, it may be due to the balls already being at a low temperature due to being out in the cold in the first half, then only brought in for re-inflation for a short while. So very little extra cooling down in the second half. Hey, I'm not saying the Pats didn't cheat. But it would be really important to know whether the officials inflate all the balls the same or whether they really do have discretion to inflate to different levels as requested by the teams. But the footballs were found to 10.5 and the colts footballs never change, this whole is a joke, what if the Pats were doing this for years, the team never seems to fumble the ball, kind of funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 when will neil come and save us from this psedu-science ?!?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 You didn't watch the presser. New England preps their balls a certain way during the week that Indie might now, by squeezing, hard practice (in varying conditions), dirtying the ball up, etc. A way that is perfectly legal and seemingly benign. This has the net effect of adding (not subtracting) 1 psi to the balls as well as getting the ball textured up the way Tom likes. If the Refs then, during game day, 'normalize' the ball by removing a few psi to get to the minimum 12.5 psi. You then have a situation where upon changing environmental conditions, not only does the ball drop the 1psi that practice gave it to 11.5 psi, you then have an additional possibility of variance by the weather, which can be on the order of +/-a few psi. In other words, you have all the variance necessary to account for the difference between NE balls and Indy balls. In fact, you could probably replicate this experiment with balls at your own home. And in fact this is exactly what happens with tires in cold weather as anyone who lives in a cold climate can attest too. The million dollar question is, whether the Pats knew this beforehand and did the procedure intentionally, or whether it was just a procedure with an unintended consequence. As a general rule with a hypothesis that you are unsure off: 'Never ascribe to malice, that which can be instead written of as incompetence' Anyway, im willing to give the benefit of the doubt to NE unless real evidence is provided of a willful neglect of the rules. Of course I still think they should be fined, but it's a different level than some of the vitriol being talked about in the media. the balls have a bladder. this isn't 1945, and I'm not taking that mans word for anything, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexorcism Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 https://twitter.com/world_wide_wob/status/559083954511564800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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