Jets Trade Down on Draft Day Could be More Reality Than Fantasy

[BP]

We have more than 1 draft pick already. Imagine if the Giants had traded down last  year instead of picking Beckham? I am not opposed to trading down, but to trade down to help your depth and possibly pass up on a stud that falls to you is a HUGE mistake. 

 

We already have a great Dline and with Mcdougle/Milliner coming back, Pryor and some cap space to get a guy like Cro I think our secondary will be fine this year. The RBs are not an issue, Amaro looks like a decent pass catcher at TE and our Oline looked pretty decent with an emerging Aboushi to go with Dbrick/Mangold/Breno. 

 

I am not saying we don't have holes (the biggest being at QB), but its not like this team has zero talent. We  have plenty of talent and cap space to plug some holes. We don't NEED to trade down if a player our GM loves falls to us at 6. 

I'm not saying trade down 20 spots for eleventy billion picks, but if the player theyre looking for is no longer there and they have an opportunity to get another pick by trading down a few spots do it.

[AFJF]

Why would a player purposely give up millions? Last year the signing bonust at #6 was 10.2m, the signing bonus at 20 was 4.4m.

I would not want a qb that is that stupid

I think the implication was that he drop a few spots so Philly isn't trying to trade all the way up to 1 from 20 which is nearly impossible.

[Scott Dierking]

I think the implication was that he drop a few spots so Philly isn't trying to trade all the way up to 1 from 20 which is nearly impossible.

Suggesting a player is going to "dump" a showcase is mindless thinking at best. Too much to lose.

[Jets723]

Either way we are in good shape. We can trade down and get more picks or can pick a good player. It may not be a sexy pick if mariota Winston and cooper are gone but we do need help on the o line.

[southparkcpa]

If we are so lucky as for this dream scenario to turn up and If Kelly is that hard up for Mariota he would be ripe for a good old fashioned f*ckin.  We simply tell him we are taking Mariota if he doesn't pull the trigger. He loses what he considers "his" guy.  The price would be Foles, this years number one and 2 and next years 1 at a minimum.  He doesn't go for it , we get our QB of the future in Mariota.

We aren't the one's who have the boner. He is. Therefore we own all the cards.

it would be a wonderful thing to see the Jets be in the position of power for once. It's been a looooooooong time man.

QB of the future...... So was Sanchez.

[AFJF]

Why would a player purposely give up millions? Last year the signing bonust at #6 was 10.2m, the signing bonus at 20 was 4.4m.

 

I would not want a qb that is that stupid

 

Hey, Eli and his dad did something even dumber than that...stranger things have happened.

[GimmeShelter]

I've read where some are predicting he slides all the way down to Philly and possibly the 2nd round if they pass on him. I wouldn't trade Foles and a draft pick to move up for him but I guess if Kelly has a hard on for him...who knows?

[AFJF]

I've read where some are predicting he slides all the way down to Philly and possibly the 2nd round if they pass on him. I wouldn't trade Foles and a draft pick to move up for him but I guess if Kelly has a hard on for him...who knows?

 

18th is the lowest I've seen him projected, but I think he goes way higher than that.  Teams lose their minds on draft day when it comes to QB's.  Somebody will deal up before he drops that far.  Cleveland rumored to be interested now.  Giving up on Manziel already perhaps?

[JETSfaninNE]

I've read where some are predicting he slides all the way down to Philly and possibly the 2nd round if they pass on him. I wouldn't trade Foles and a draft pick to move up for him but I guess if Kelly has a hard on for him...who knows?

 

chip already has 6 of his former ducks in Philly.  Who knows how bad he really wants Super Mariota

[RutgersJetFan]

Nick Foles looks like John Idzik.

 

Now this. This is a post.

[AFJF]

chip already has 6 of his former ducks in Philly.  Who knows how bad he really wants Super Mariota

 

If their site is up to date he actually has eight.  Surprised only four of them are offensive players.

[GREENBEAN]

QB of the future...... So was Sanchez.

By that logic we should never take another QB in the first rd of the draft.

 

It's a crap shoot. We all know that.  The difference I think is that Sanchez' own coach stated he wasn't ready for the NFL.  Mariota on the other hand has his former coach reportedly wanting him at all costs in Eagle green.

 

Who knows right? I would take Mariota if he was on the board when the Jets pick and it was my choice.... and it's not sooooo there's that.

[BroadwayJets]

If we have a successful free agency, really wouldn't mind trading down

[southparkcpa]

By that logic we should never take another QB in the first rd of the draft.

 

It's a crap shoot. We all know that.  The difference I think is that Sanchez' own coach stated he wasn't ready for the NFL.  Mariota on the other hand has his former coach reportedly wanting him at all costs in Eagle green.

 

Who knows right? I would take Mariota if he was on the board when the Jets pick and it was my choice.... and it's not sooooo there's that.

generally I agree..... Just breaking balls. So there. LOL. All good.

[Shockwave]

Wether people love him or hate him the best thing to happen to the Jets Franchise this offseason is Mariota falling to them. Its just gives us more value and options. Without him falling there we are pretty much stuck in no mans land. 

 

Really weird draft class. Our needs don't match up well at all and there seems to be very little first round talent.  There are going to be guys in the 20's that are graded as second rounders. Not sure you want to trade down to there. 

[Hael]

The value moves is trading down in this horrible draft.  There is some depth, but all the top 20 talent come with big red flags and could be epic busts, much moreso than most years.

This isn't a popular opinion, but i'd even swap out of this draft where possible.  So if a team wants to trade to 6, and we get a late 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd, I have no problem if some of those picks are not in this draft.

[AFJF]

This is the mindset that's driving a lot of the Mariota to the Eagles talk  here in Philly.  Under any other coach, he's likely going to need a couple of years.  With the Eagles, he'll be ready to go much sooner.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000469528/article/mayock-marcus-mariota-a-project-for-every-team-except-eagles?campaign=Facebook_cfb_huguenin

 

 

 

"It's not a real good quarterback draft," Mayock told Philadelphia radio station WPEN-FM, per Philadelphia magazine. "You've got two quarterbacks that are head-and-shoulders above everyone else, and even they have their own holes -- one on the field (Mariota) and one off the field (Florida State's Jameis Winston)."

 

 

Mayock said the type of offense Mariota ran at Oregon makes him "a projection" for every team except the Philadelphia Eagles. Mariota was recruited to Oregon by Chip Kelly, who now, of course, is the Eagles' coach.

"From a physical trait perspective, he has everything you want," Mayock said of Mariota. "He's big, he's athletic, he's got great feet and he's got a live arm. So on the surface, the individual components all work. The problem is he's a projection coming to the next level because of the pocket awareness, the progressions and the reads."

Mayock also said that if Eagles officials "think he's the guy and that they can win a Super Bowl with Marcus Mariota, given people around him and a good defense, then I think they have to try and go get him."

The Eagles own the No. 20 pick in the first round, and they almost certainly would have to trade up to get Mariota. How high they'd have to go and how high a price they're willing to pay are the unknowns.

As for Winston, Mayock said, "I really like everything I see about him on the field. ... But off the field, I'm scared to death of him."

NFL Media analyst Daniel Jeremiah rates Winston as the No. 6 prospect in the draft, with Mariota at No. 11. Jeremiah and fellow analysts Bucky Brooks and Lance Zierlein have Winston going first overall to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in their mock drafts. Jeremiah and Zierlein have Mariota going sixth overall, to the New York Jets, and Brooks has Mariota going 18th, to the Kansas City Chiefs.

[Scott Dierking]

This is the mindset that's driving a lot of the Mariota to the Eagles talk  here in Philly.  Under any other coach, he's likely going to need a couple of years.  With the Eagles, he'll be ready to go much sooner.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000469528/article/mayock-marcus-mariota-a-project-for-every-team-except-eagles?campaign=Facebook_cfb_huguenin

 

 

 

"It's not a real good quarterback draft," Mayock told Philadelphia radio station WPEN-FM, per Philadelphia magazine. "You've got two quarterbacks that are head-and-shoulders above everyone else, and even they have their own holes -- one on the field (Mariota) and one off the field (Florida State's Jameis Winston)."

 

 

Mayock said the type of offense Mariota ran at Oregon makes him "a projection" for every team except the Philadelphia Eagles. Mariota was recruited to Oregon by Chip Kelly, who now, of course, is the Eagles' coach.

"From a physical trait perspective, he has everything you want," Mayock said of Mariota. "He's big, he's athletic, he's got great feet and he's got a live arm. So on the surface, the individual components all work. The problem is he's a projection coming to the next level because of the pocket awareness, the progressions and the reads."

Mayock also said that if Eagles officials "think he's the guy and that they can win a Super Bowl with Marcus Mariota, given people around him and a good defense, then I think they have to try and go get him."

The Eagles own the No. 20 pick in the first round, and they almost certainly would have to trade up to get Mariota. How high they'd have to go and how high a price they're willing to pay are the unknowns.

As for Winston, Mayock said, "I really like everything I see about him on the field. ... But off the field, I'm scared to death of him."

NFL Media analyst Daniel Jeremiah rates Winston as the No. 6 prospect in the draft, with Mariota at No. 11. Jeremiah and fellow analysts Bucky Brooks and Lance Zierlein have Winston going first overall to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in their mock drafts. Jeremiah and Zierlein have Mariota going sixth overall, to the New York Jets, and Brooks has Mariota going 18th, to the Kansas City Chiefs.

Don't listen to Angelo Cataldi. He is a sensationalist, who does not have a real grasp on sports.

 

As Howard Eskin told Cataldi this morning, and Eskin has more Eagle contacts than anyone, Kelly realizes it is a pipe dream to move up that far and have to give up a couple of ones and twos, when he needs so many other things on that team.

 

Cataldi is a hack.

[AFJF]

Don't listen to Angelo Cataldi. He is a sensationalist, who does not have a real grasp on sports.

 

As Howard Eskin told Cataldi this morning, and Eskin has more Eagle contacts than anyone, Kelly realizes it is a pipe dream to move up that far and have to give up a couple of ones and twos, when he needs so many other things on that team.

 

Cataldi is a hack.

 

Cataldi makes me laugh from time to time on my morning drive, but I don't take his opinions seriously because he's absolutely a sensationalist.  I prefer Mikey Mis...a few weeks ago he was on board with the "pipe dream" talk but I think Sal Pal convinced him that it's plausible. 

 

It would take a lot, and normally I'd agree with it being impossible, but I'm trying to remember the last time there was a coach/QB prospect more perfect for each other leading up to the draft. 

[Scott Dierking]

Cataldi makes me laugh from time to time on my morning drive, but I don't take his opinions seriously because he's absolutely a sensationalist.  I prefer Mikey Mis...a few weeks ago he was on board with the "pipe dream" talk but I think Sal Pal convinced him that it's plausible. 

 

It would take a lot, and normally I'd agree with it being impossible, but I'm trying to remember the last time there was a coach/QB prospect more perfect for each other leading up to the draft. 

Just hard to fathom the Eagles doing that, with so many other holes. If they were only a qb away, maybe.

 

I heard this the other day, and cannot verify it, but someone said that a team has NEVER traded outside of the top 10, into the top 10 to take a qb.

 

Is that possible?

[AFJF]

Just hard to fathom the Eagles doing that, with so many other holes. If they were only a qb away, maybe.

 

I heard this the other day, and cannot verify it, but someone said that a team has NEVER traded outside of the top 10, into the top 10 to take a qb.

 

Is that possible?

 

I suppose that could be the case, and it is difficult to fathom, but can't dismiss the fact that Chip just made that power play to gain full control over personnel decisions.  I also recall him saying during an interview that the thing he's found most surprising about being an NFL coach is  how much time people spend talking about the draft.  I'm not going to say something silly and imply he doesn't value the draft at all, but he definitely went in unprepared last year.  Could be that he thinks picks are overrated and he knows that the one guy he wants could be had if he's willing to part with a few more picks.

 

Again, to me this is all driven by the fact that Chip was brought into the league because of the offense he runs.  Any team that wants to win has to have a QB and Kelly is faced with a chance to have the "perfect" guy to run his offense and he demanded full control. 

 

Too many things pointing toward Philly making a run at Mariota to dismiss it IMO. 

[#27TheDominator]

The value moves is trading down in this horrible draft.  There is some depth, but all the top 20 talent come with big red flags and could be epic busts, much moreso than most years.

This isn't a popular opinion, but i'd even swap out of this draft where possible.  So if a team wants to trade to 6, and we get a late 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd, I have no problem if some of those picks are not in this draft.

 

Most of what I read has said that this is a top heavy draft.  If that is the case, trading down would not be the value move. Do you disagree with that assessment?

[Scott Dierking]

I suppose that could be the case, and it is difficult to fathom, but can't dismiss the fact that Chip just made that power play to gain full control over personnel decisions.  I also recall him saying during an interview that the thing he's found most surprising about being an NFL coach is  how much time people spend talking about the draft.  I'm not going to say something silly and imply he doesn't value the draft at all, but he definitely went in unprepared last year.  Could be that he thinks picks are overrated and he knows that the one guy he wants could be had if he's willing to part with a few more picks.

 

Again, to me this is all driven by the fact that Chip was brought into the league because of the offense he runs.  Any team that wants to win has to have a QB and Kelly is faced with a chance to have the "perfect" guy to run his offense and he demanded full control. 

 

Too many things pointing toward Philly making a run at Mariota to dismiss it IMO. 

From a Jets standpoint, I would have to assume that comes with a Foles component of the trade, which I want no part of. So, if the Eagles do it, I do not want it too be with the Jets getting Foles.

[jetsrebirth]

From a Jets standpoint, I would have to assume that comes with a Foles component of the trade, which I want no part of. So, if the Eagles do it, I do not want it too be with the Jets getting Foles.

I tend to agree with this. I think Foles is significantly better than Geno, but than again I may be as well, but I don't think Foles is a top 15 even starter in this league. If Foles is a throw in where we are not tied to him, I am OK with it, but if they are banking on him as the QB of the team for years to come, I would not be happy with that.

[AFJF]

From a Jets standpoint, I would have to assume that comes with a Foles component of the trade, which I want no part of. So, if the Eagles do it, I do not want it too be with the Jets getting Foles.

 

I'm not 100% sold on Foles yet either, but as bad as Jets QB's have been combined with a weak FA market, he's a guy I'd want them to grab.  His W/L record, TD/INT ratio and comp % are all better than anything we've seen for the Jets in forever.  As I said to somebody yesterday, my ideal scenario would be Foles involved in first round pick swap, send mid-rounder to TB for Glennon, allow Foles/Glennon/Geno to compete for the job.  I don't see any way Geno wins that competition, but I think his price tag and age make him a virtual lock to come back next season.

[Scott Dierking]

I'm not 100% sold on Foles yet either, but as bad as Jets QB's have been combined with a weak FA market, he's a guy I'd want them to grab.  His W/L record, TD/INT ratio and comp % are all better than anything we've seen for the Jets in forever.  As I said to somebody yesterday, my ideal scenario would be Foles involved in first round pick swap, send mid-rounder to TB for Glennon, allow Foles/Glennon/Geno to compete for the job.  I don't see any way Geno wins that competition, but I think his price tag and age make him a virtual lock to come back next season.

To trade for 2 qb that require top end trade compensations shows indecision, and a lack of front office fortitude.

 

If you believe a guy is your guy, and can fit in your system, you make him be that guy. You can't hedge bets in the NFL, waste a valuable commodity on 2 guys and let them duke it out. 

 

I would hope that our decision makers are better than that.

[AFJF]

To trade for 2 qb that require top end trade compensations shows indecision, and a lack of front office fortitude.

 

If you believe a guy is your guy, and can fit in your system, you make him be that guy. You can't hedge bets in the NFL, waste a valuable commodity on 2 guys and let them duke it out. 

 

I would hope that our decision makers are better than that.

 

I fell like the Jets tried that approach with Geno and Sanchez.  Each one was "their guy" and thus, no reason to bring in a competent back up to compete.

 

Bringing in two guys to compete works on many levels:

 

1) If only one of the two looks like NFL starter material, you can dump the other with little or no financial ramifications because neither one is making big money.

2) If both play well, you have a starter with legit back-up, go from worst QB situation in the NFL, to one of the best.

3) If both play well, you could also opt to trade the lesser of the two, possibly for a higher pick than what you used to acquire him.  Again, if you can't, then you're "stuck" with a good QB as your back up.

4) If  you trade for two guys, and they're both terrible, then we know it'll be more of the same from the Jets offense moving forward as there's still nobody in the building who can evaluate QB play.

 

- Hedging bets isn't unheard of...San Diego drafted Rivers with Brees to let them compete...turns out they were both damn good QB's. 

 

- Seattle gave Matt Flynn a TON of money and still drafted a QB in round 3, had a legit QB competition and started the better of the two, as a result, they were one yard short of consecutive SB wins.

 

- Buffalo used a high pick on a QB and spent a boatload of money to get Orton to come out  of retirement to hedge their bets.  That decision was the only reason they had  a shot at the playoffs.

 

- Harbaugh, a renowned offensive guru/genius drafted Kaepernick and turned to him when Alex Smith had lost only a few games over a two year span...it was one play away from ending with a SB win.

 

It's not unheard of, and it's something I'm a big fan of given the importance of the QB position and the Jets' inability to find a good one.  Keep getting QB's until you get the right one. 

 

What you may view as "indecision", I see as being over-prepared as opposed to under-prepared.

 

Again...JMO.

[Scott Dierking]

I fell like the Jets tried that approach with Geno and Sanchez.  Each one was "their guy" and thus, no reason to bring in a competent back up to compete.

 

Bringing in two guys to compete works on many levels:

 

1) If only one of the two looks like NFL starter material, you can dump the other with little or no financial ramifications because neither one is making big money.

2) If both play well, you have a starter with legit back-up, go from worst QB situation in the NFL, to one of the best.

3) If both play well, you could also opt to trade the lesser of the two, possibly for a higher pick than what you used to acquire him.  Again, if you can't, then you're "stuck" with a good QB as your back up.

4) If  you trade for two guys, and they're both terrible, then we know it'll be more of the same from the Jets offense moving forward as there's still nobody in the building who can evaluate QB play.

 

- Hedging bets isn't unheard of...San Diego drafted Rivers with Brees to let them compete...turns out they were both damn good QB's. 

 

- Seattle gave Matt Flynn a TON of money and still drafted a QB in round 3, had a legit QB competition and started the better of the two, as a result, they were one yard short of consecutive SB wins.

 

- Buffalo used a high pick on a QB and spent a boatload of money to get Orton to come out  of retirement to hedge their bets.  That decision was the only reason they had  a shot at the playoffs.

 

- Harbaugh, a renowned offensive guru/genius drafted Kaepernick and turned to him when Alex Smith had lost only a few games over a two year span...it was one play away from ending with a SB win.

 

It's not unheard of, and it's something I'm a big fan of given the importance of the QB position and the Jets' inability to find a good one.  Keep getting QB's until you get the right one. 

 

What you may view as "indecision", I see as being over-prepared as opposed to under-prepared.

 

Again...JMO.

Again, I would hope that our decision makers are more decisive. This is what they get paid to do. We will see.

[SouthernJet]

I think we move down and pile up picks unless Jets fall in love with Marriotta at combine if he blows everyones socks off.

We also might swap w/eagles for Foles and picks.

[section314]

This isn't supposed to be a very good, deep draft. Why would you want to trade out of a top 10 pick to acquire more picks ?

[FTL Jet Fan]

I don't think we are even going to have to worry about Mariota because he won't be there at 6. I think the Jets would take him if he is there. If Philly wants to trade up they would have to do it at 4 with Jax, for fear of the Redskins taking Mariota. I know people say the Redskins will never take a quarterback since they spent so much RG3 but I don't buy it. They can let Mariota sit and give RG3 one more year to see if he flops which he probably will. As far as trading back I don't know why a team would want to move up to 6 if it wasn't for a QB because whatever player they want I'm sure it's one that we could use

[AFJF]

This isn't supposed to be a very good, deep draft. Why would you want to trade out of a top 10 pick to acquire more picks ?

 

I get the fact that some drafts have more talent than others, but I heard a quote from an exec not long ago and for the life of me can't remember who it was.  I think it was somebody quoting Bill Walsh on NFL network.  Basically, "saying the draft isn't deep is admitting you're not good at finding talent".  If we just imported all of these new personnel guys, and they can't fid a few good players out of hundreds, then what's the point in having them around?

[Scott Dierking]

I get the fact that some drafts have more talent than others, but I heard a quote from an exec not long ago and for the life of me can't remember who it was.  I think it was somebody quoting Bill Walsh on NFL network.  Basically, "saying the draft isn't deep is admitting you're not good at finding talent".  If we just imported all of these new personnel guys, and they can't fid a few good players out of hundreds, then what's the point in having them around?

I could use your same analogy and say, why spend valuable chips (draft picks) on the same position (QB) twice?

 

If you can't find a good QB, what's the point of having them around?

[AFJF]

I could use your same analogy and say, why spend valuable chips (draft picks) on the same position (QB) twice?

 

If you can't find a good QB, what's the point of having them around?

 

Of course you could.  I would counter by repeating what I've already said.  It's my opinion that quarterback is the most important position in the NFL.  The Jets have used the "this is our guy" approach for quite some time now.  I would argue that using that approach has been a failure.  I prefer the method I outlined before that was used by Pete Carroll, Jim Harbaugh, and even your guy Doug Marrone.  I'd be surprised if the Jets go in to the season with a rookie, Geno and Simms, but it wouldn't be the first time this team has taken that approach.  It's just that taking that approach has never won them anything.

[Scott Dierking]

Of course you could.  I would counter by repeating what I've already said.  It's my opinion that quarterback is the most important position in the NFL.  The Jets have used the "this is our guy" approach for quite some time now.  I would argue that using that approach has been a failure.  I prefer the method I outlined before that was used by Pete Carroll, Jim Harbaugh, and even your guy Doug Marrone.  I'd be surprised if the Jets go in to the season with a rookie, Geno and Simms, but it wouldn't be the first time this team has taken that approach.  It's just that taking that approach has never won them anything.

Show me a team that spent 2 high draft picks, which is what you are advocating, on a qb in the same year.