Jets should redo Dbrick & Mangold

[Villain The Foe]

He's not taking a pay cut this year no many how many times you request it.

????

 

Im not requesting he take a cut this year (2015) Im saying that he should be taking it next year (2016) .

[patman]

NY Jet mainstays who I'm sure want to win a Super Bowl should be approached about restructuring to benefit the team

Dbrick pushed money into the future years ago to help the team out and only took 14 mill in salary over the last 5 years.  Now his salary is more in line with top LT and you want him to take less, when he was not even pulling down market value in the past.   The jets would only save 3 mill by cutting him, so why will he not want to collect the money that he delayed so that the jets could sign other guys.I know the sport is cold, but when a team has 50 mill in cap space they should not ask a guy that delayed getting his to now take a cut. 

 

edit   After I read further I know understand that you want him to give up something next year.  That could be a little more palatable.

[Sperm Edwards]

????

 

Im not requesting he take a cut this year (2015) Im saying that he should be taking it next year (2016) .

 

Enough already -- it isn't going to happen for at least a year!!

[Villain The Foe]

Enough already -- it isn't going to happen for at least a year!!

[Sperm Edwards]

I had a couple more good ones to type if you still weren't catching on. Next up was, "Holy Hell, you are one stubborn motherf*cker. Get it through your thick skull: we are not..."

[Villain The Foe]

I had a couple more good ones to type if you still weren't catching on. Next up was, "Holy Hell, you are one stubborn motherf*cker. Get it through your thick skull: we are not..."

lol it did take me a minute though. 

[sourceworx]

God **** it.

I'm so sick of people talking about the OL. Will they re-do Brick? Will they sign Iupati? what will they do about Colon?

NEWS FLASH: IT DOESNT MATTER

who was Eli's LT when he won 2 rings? David Friggin Diehl.

The Jets have the very best center in football and went 4-12.

The line is fine. more than good enough to win. Brick is better than Nate Solder and Russell Okung. They were in the Super Bowl.

Geno is not even close to Russell Wilson. That's the problem folks. The real problem.

it doesn't matter without a QB. That's the one problem with the Jets that we should be talking about. Or at least not be in denial about and make OL\CB\WR threads. It's ignoring the gunshot wound in favor of the paper cut.

Could the line be better? the Jets could have first rounders and Pro Bowlers at all the OL positions, and Revis, and whoever else. They still won't get the title.

SOURCE: it actually happened in 2009 and 2010 with Faneca and Woody.

This league is all about the QB.

When you don't have a great QB, a great O-Line is the next best thing. Just ask Dallas.

There's no great QB to be had in free agency, the draft, or via a trade. So the best option is to get a game manager, and build a monster line to protect him and provide a great running game.

[peebag]

God **** it. 

 

I'm so sick of people talking about the OL. Will they re-do Brick? Will they sign Iupati? what will they do about Colon? 

 

NEWS FLASH: IT DOESNT MATTER

 

 who was Eli's LT when he won 2 rings? David Friggin Diehl. 

 

The Jets have the very best center in football and went 4-12.

 

The line is fine. more than good enough to win. Brick is better than Nate Solder and Russell Okung. They were in the Super Bowl.

 

Geno is not even close to Russell Wilson. That's the problem folks. The real problem. 

 

it doesn't matter without a QB. That's the one problem with the Jets that we should be talking about. Or at least not be in denial about and make OL\CB\WR threads. It's ignoring the gunshot wound in favor of the paper cut. 

 

Could the line be better? the Jets could have first rounders and Pro Bowlers at all the OL positions, and Revis, and whoever else. They still won't get the title. 

 

SOURCE: it actually happened in 2009 and 2010 with Faneca and Woody. 

 

This league is all about the QB. 

Breno and Colon were just super awesome.  Got it. Right. ThankS!

[jason423]

The Jets should not touch the contracts of either of those players. They have no need to do it for cap purposes and quite frankly need them to earn as much money as possible since Idzik took the Jets into this spend no money program.  People dont realize that the Jets are at an incredible disadvantage in all negotitions right now because their spending has been next to nothing. They have millions upon millions to make up and only two players on the roster worth giving any of it to. The more they purge their salary structure the more and more people will be asking for. Its not a great position for the team.

[Sperm Edwards]

The Jets should not touch the contracts of either of those players. They have no need to do it for cap purposes and quite frankly need them to earn as much money as possible since Idzik took the Jets into this spend no money program.  People dont realize that the Jets are at an incredible disadvantage in all negotitions right now because their spending has been next to nothing. They have millions upon millions to make up and only two players on the roster worth giving any of it to. The more they purge their salary structure the more and more people will be asking for. Its not a great position for the team.

 

No, Jason. Apparently we should force our hand into spending on bloated new contracts, that may be particularly bad ones, just to reach our spending floor.

[bitonti]

When you don't have a great QB, a great O-Line is the next best thing. Just ask Dallas.

 

 

comparing Romo to Geno? Cmon. i'd be thrilled with Romo as the QB. Geno is garbage. 

[sourceworx]

comparing Romo to Geno? Cmon. i'd be thrilled with Romo as the QB. Geno is garbage.

Where did I compare Romo to Geno?

I agree that Geno is garbage. But that doesn't make Romo a great QB (which he is not).

He's good, not great.

[AFJF]

No, Jason. Apparently we should force our hand into spending on bloated new contracts, that may be particularly bad ones, just to reach our spending floor.

 

This seems to be a surprisingly popular train of thought.  Lots of folks feel like all the cap space means you blow the whole wad in free agency and don't waste time with anyone who might be a bargain.  Just sign every single high-profile guy for whatever they demand.

[JetsRay]

I believe that Iupati will be a Jet. We may overpay to make sure of it, but I do believe that he'll be in the green and white next year. 

 

With the OG's drafted the last two years, Winters, Aboushi, Dozier, we have some talent, it's still developing talent, but talent nonetheless, and both Winters and Aboushi have shown flashes.  With the needs of the team, we have investments at this position, and the OL did just fine down the stretch last year once Decker got healthy, with Harvin adding talent at WR, which opened up the field for a suddenly improved Geno to finish the year.

 

I'm just leery of investing money on the OL, at least not without at least restructuring Ferguson.  I think an investment at OT could be made early in this draft, maybe 2nd through 4th round depending on what we do in FA at the skill positions.

 

I'm actually anxious to see what Winters and Aboushi do in camp, both could be our starters with Colon moving on. 

[BRONX DUDE]

Please allow Jets fans to discuss the teams personnel go play in traffic 

 

New we need a driver and a speed and a date and a place.

[j4jets]

He's better than Breno! Breno showed me nothing in pass protection, in fact I think he's below average.

Jets have no one to threat to replace DBrick with.

Also I don't know where your getting your ratings but Brick actually ranked very well considering his QB held onto the ball too long.

You have to take that into account!

 

Yeah but do u really want an $11+mil RT?

[bitonti]

Where did I compare Romo to Geno?

I agree that Geno is garbage. But that doesn't make Romo a great QB (which he is not).

He's good, not great.

 

If Geno was at least average that would be something.  

[Villain The Foe]

With the OG's drafted the last two years, Winters, Aboushi, Dozier, we have some talent, it's still developing talent, but talent nonetheless, and both Winters and Aboushi have shown flashes.  With the needs of the team, we have investments at this position, and the OL did just fine down the stretch last year once Decker got healthy, with Harvin adding talent at WR, which opened up the field for a suddenly improved Geno to finish the year.

 

I'm just leery of investing money on the OL, at least not without at least restructuring Ferguson.  I think an investment at OT could be made early in this draft, maybe 2nd through 4th round depending on what we do in FA at the skill positions.

 

I'm actually anxious to see what Winters and Aboushi do in camp, both could be our starters with Colon moving on. 

having potential talent and having production on the field are two different things. the one area of offense that could help evey other area of offense is the offensive line. it will help with the pass blocking for the qb, it will hold blocks long enough for a wideout to complete their route, and it will help with the running game. one area on the offense that we need to get right for sure is the offensive line. bringing in iupati is an immediate fix at one guard spot and then you have dozier, winters and aboushi to fill in the other guard position and then we are set with not only your starters, but whomever didnt win the starting job between those 3 will be solid back ups which is just as important.

[Sperm Edwards]

With the OG's drafted the last two years, Winters, Aboushi, Dozier, we have some talent, it's still developing talent, but talent nonetheless, and both Winters and Aboushi have shown flashes.  With the needs of the team, we have investments at this position, and the OL did just fine down the stretch last year once Decker got healthy, with Harvin adding talent at WR, which opened up the field for a suddenly improved Geno to finish the year.

 

I'm just leery of investing money on the OL, at least not without at least restructuring Ferguson.  I think an investment at OT could be made early in this draft, maybe 2nd through 4th round depending on what we do in FA at the skill positions.

 

I'm actually anxious to see what Winters and Aboushi do in camp, both could be our starters with Colon moving on. 

 

What is the purpose of restructuring Ferguson? He will not take a pay cut (nor would I if I was him) and the Jets have no leverage in forcing this hand in 2015. Unless the purpose is to lock us into a left tackle in his 30s who, for multiple seasons, has been on a noticeable decline compared to what he was 4+ seasons ago.

 

The logic of signing Iupati, even if it's overpaying a bit, is that we will otherwise have no certainty at either guard position. We need 2 starting guards. We may or may not have one (or two, if one is that optimistic). Injuries and sudden lax effort possibilities aside, Iupati is a sure thing. It's one thing to go into the season (or draft) with one question mark and 2-3 young guys with potential. It's another thing entirely to double the number of question marks on a 5-man line.

 

Like signing Decker last year. We needed two. Decker is a sure thing so now the "find a young starter" is reduced by half.

 

And beyond that, the team has to spend on players. If not merely to appease some fans, then by league mandate. So it might as well be on a position where we have an enormous hole, where an elite stud is available. It's just a great fit for us.

[JetsRay]

What is the purpose of restructuring Ferguson? He will not take a pay cut (nor would I if I was him) and the Jets have no leverage in forcing this hand in 2015. Unless the purpose is to lock us into a left tackle in his 30s who, for multiple seasons, has been on a noticeable decline compared to what he was 4+ seasons ago.

 

The logic of signing Iupati, even if it's overpaying a bit, is that we will otherwise have no certainty at either guard position. We need 2 starting guards. We may or may not have one (or two, if one is that optimistic). Injuries and sudden lax effort possibilities aside, Iupati is a sure thing. It's one thing to go into the season (or draft) with one question mark and 2-3 young guys with potential. It's another thing entirely to double the number of question marks on a 5-man line.

 

Like signing Decker last year. We needed two. Decker is a sure thing so now the "find a young starter" is reduced by half.

 

And beyond that, the team has to spend on players. If not merely to appease some fans, then by league mandate. So it might as well be on a position where we have an enormous hole, where an elite stud is available. It's just a great fit for us.

 

I the jets front office feel Ferguson is not worth the money they are paying him, they can approach him to restructure, or risk being released.  I'm not saying they are at that point, and that Ferguson isn't any longer a quality OT, but it's part of the process that will play out at some point for both Ferguson and Mangold.

 

The Jets have investments at the OG position, that are still on rookie contracts and who both have starting experience under their belts, the OL played well when Geno finally played well in the last 6 games, it's all about the QB play. 

 

Just because the Jets have a nice cap number to play with this off-season, doesn't mean we should go out and dump money at a position where we already have quite a bit of it invested, and can take advantage of rookie contracts with players who are starters and still have potential to improve.

 

I just think Iupati is overkill at a position we have some young players with potential.

[Sperm Edwards]

I the jets front office feel Ferguson is not worth the money they are paying him, they can approach him to restructure, or risk being released.  I'm not saying they are at that point, and that Ferguson isn't any longer a quality OT, but it's part of the process that will play out at some point for both Ferguson and Mangold.

 

The Jets have investments at the OG position, that are still on rookie contracts and who both have starting experience under their belts, the OL played well when Geno finally played well in the last 6 games, it's all about the QB play. 

 

Just because the Jets have a nice cap number to play with this off-season, doesn't mean we should go out and dump money at a position where we already have quite a bit of it invested, and can take advantage of rookie contracts with players who are starters and still have potential to improve.

 

I just think Iupati is overkill at a position we have some young players with potential.

Ferguson isn't taking a pay cut unless he's recently come down with an acute case of brain damage. A particularly contagious case at that, which likewise spread to his agent. Next year is another story, as he will be a year older and it will be far from a certainty he could earn within a few million of the new money he'll be due.

The Jets haven't "invested" much at the guard position. A few mid-rounders over 2 seasons. One of them has so far shown to be awful. Another has shown he may or may not be serviceable. A third has shown less than the bad one. Of these 3 players with potential, only one has shown that he might not be a liability.

Sure it's possible 2 of them show they're worthy of starter positions. It's also possible that Winters is still not too good, Aboushi isn't as good as he was a year before, and Dozier is cut before September after failing to draft UDFA camp fodder in the final preseason game.

If they had one of the 2 guard positions secured for certain, then I'd lean towards seeing what we've got and rolling the dice a little on one position. Rolling the dice with these 3, who have thus far shown a combined nothing, is a bit much.

If this coaching staff was very familiar with them, and had reason to believe 2 of them would be ready to start this year, that might also be a different situation. That's not what we've got. We've got a coaching staff that knows no more about them than posters on this site. Perhaps less than some.

We have no known starters at 2 guard positions. Nothing wrong with bringing in 1 sure thing. And in this offseason there happens to be a top-notch one so it is a good fit. It is hardly a waste of cap space to sign a premiere player at a position of need. If 2 of them look good, then good. We get the better of the 2, and the other is a dirt cheap, solid backup that we may need on a moment's notice.

[JetsRay]

Ferguson isn't taking a pay cut unless he's recently come down with an acute case of brain damage. A particularly contagious case at that, which likewise spread to his agent. Next year is another story, as he will be a year older and it will be far from a certainty he could earn within a few million of the new money he'll be due.

The Jets haven't "invested" much at the guard position. A few mid-rounders over 2 seasons. One of them has so far shown to be awful. Another has shown he may or may not be serviceable. A third has shown less than the bad one. Of these 3 players with potential, only one has shown that he might not be a liability.

Sure it's possible 2 of them show they're worthy of starter positions. It's also possible that Winters is still not too good, Aboushi isn't as good as he was a year before, and Dozier is cut before September after failing to draft UDFA camp fodder in the final preseason game.

If they had one of the 2 guard positions secured for certain, then I'd lean towards seeing what we've got and rolling the dice a little on one position. Rolling the dice with these 3, who have thus far shown a combined nothing, is a bit much.

If this coaching staff was very familiar with them, and had reason to believe 2 of them would be ready to start this year, that might also be a different situation. That's not what we've got. We've got a coaching staff that knows no more about them than posters on this site. Perhaps less than some.

We have no known starters at 2 guard positions. Nothing wrong with bringing in 1 sure thing. And in this offseason there happens to be a top-notch one so it is a good fit. It is hardly a waste of cap space to sign a premiere player at a position of need. If 2 of them look good, then good. We get the better of the 2, and the other is a dirt cheap, solid backup that we may need on a moment's notice.

 

Suggesting one of them has been awful is just wrong, neither of the 3 young OG have been awful, they were rookie and 2nd year players, Winters started as a rookie he was going to struggle a little.  Awful is not an accurate depiction of his performance.  A rookie going through growing pains being asked to start right away is a lot for a player.

 

Fair point that none of these players have ties to the new regime, but they do have an assistant coach in Heller that know the players and that will be an asset to the new coaching staff when evaluating the current roster and especially the OL.

 

I don't have a problem signing an OG in FA, I just don't think opening the checkbook for the best player, with so much invested elsewhere along the OL.  Maybe one of the 2nd tier FA's in Orlando Franklin.

[sirlancemehlot]

God **** it. 

 

I'm so sick of people talking about the OL. Will they re-do Brick? Will they sign Iupati? what will they do about Colon? 

 

NEWS FLASH: IT DOESNT MATTER

 

 who was Eli's LT when he won 2 rings? David Friggin Diehl. 

 

The Jets have the very best center in football and went 4-12.

 

The line is fine. more than good enough to win. Brick is better than Nate Solder and Russell Okung. They were in the Super Bowl.

 

Geno is not even close to Russell Wilson. That's the problem folks. The real problem. 

 

it doesn't matter without a QB. That's the one problem with the Jets that we should be talking about. Or at least not be in denial about and make OL\CB\WR threads. It's ignoring the gunshot wound in favor of the paper cut. 

 

Could the line be better? the Jets could have first rounders and Pro Bowlers at all the OL positions, and Revis, and whoever else. They still won't get the title. 

 

SOURCE: it actually happened in 2009 and 2010 with Faneca and Woody. 

 

This league is all about the QB. 

It doesn't matter if your line is great or merely OK? Huh?  Any upgraded position helps the overall team.  Any weak position downgrades a team.  It's science.

 

The Jets had a 4-12 season with one great lineman out of five.  Yeah.  Was Mangold supposed to block the entire defense?  There's no logic here.

 

QB is all that matters.  And we don't have one.  So...pack it in and forget about improving the offense's most critical unit because it doesn't matter?

 

We didn't win a SB in 2009 and 2010 with a great line because of Sanchez?  News Flash: We went to two AFC championship games in those years...even with a mediocre or worse QB.  How does that prove that OL doesn't matter?  It was precisely the OL that allowed the offense to succeed with a sub par QB.  And last I checked, our current QB is worse than the one we had back then.  OL is the only hope without an elite QB falling into our laps somehow.  And no elite QB is heading to a team with a weak offensive line.  never period. 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

Suggesting one of them has been awful is just wrong, neither of the 3 young OG have been awful, they were rookie and 2nd year players, Winters started as a rookie he was going to struggle a little.  Awful is not an accurate depiction of his performance.  A rookie going through growing pains being asked to start right away is a lot for a player.

 

Fair point that none of these players have ties to the new regime, but they do have an assistant coach in Heller that know the players and that will be an asset to the new coaching staff when evaluating the current roster and especially the OL.

 

I don't have a problem signing an OG in FA, I just don't think opening the checkbook for the best player, with so much invested elsewhere along the OL.  Maybe one of the 2nd tier FA's in Orlando Franklin.

Winters was awful. He had one series of a few games where he wasn't but it's not like he was pushing Haloti Ngata back into the secondary. If he wasn't so bad before that it's doubtful no one would have noticed. He was pretty bad again prior to getting injured.

He may yet be a decent player, and it would be awesome if he becomes one, but whatever the excuses so far he's been bad.

I'm not worried about what their OL payroll because I don't think more than one of them is likely to be earning that much past 2015. The additional amount (what he truly costs now, since no one can replay the past) is millions less than his cap charge. Next year the Jets will have leverage (if they want to retain him) when his "new money" is over $10 million. This year, though, he makes an amount he'll definitely get from another team within a week. There is no pay cut to propose. And he hasn't played nearly well enough to lock us into him beyond 2015.

By the time Iupati's cap number becomes significant, Ferguson's salary will be reduced or deleted.

If we had one sure thing, again, I think it would be fine if we roll the dice with the 3 Idzik guys plus a stop-gap guy. Or if one of our guards was a low 1st round pick who showed more as a rookie (or in his first 2 years).

[Shockwave]

When you consider we have one of the worst rosters in the league and will not compete for a few years :  Trading these guys, or finding eventual replacements have to be a high priority. Paying over 10m a year  for 30 year olds on a rebuilding team isn't the way to go.