Patriots locker room attendant tried to put unapproved ball into AFC final

[patman]

This is what I'm talking about, you can't be objective. Anyone with some common sense knows that there was some purposefully shady sh*t going on. But you're tossing out Columbia lab reports or something. There is so much evidence. And sure, maybe some of it is anecdotal. But this isn't a court of law as much as Pats fans want it to be. The Colts balls were fine, BTW. Do you honestly not believe this was done on purpose? Consider it as Team A and Team B, not the Pats and Colts. Team A is guilty as sh*t, bro. 

Ok let's go thru it again.

 

1. Grigson and Kensil hate the pats, I think on that we can agree.

 

2. Grigson told the league days  before the game that he suspected the balls may be uninflated.

 

3. The colts knew that the officials were going to check the balls during the game.

 

4. The pats equipment people inflated and measured the PSI at 12.5 in the locker room.

 

5. The pats submitted 12 balls at 12.5PSI to the officials for validation, 2 hours prior to the start of the game, the officials marked the balls as ok and gave them back to the ball boy 15 min prior to the start of the game. They also gave the colts their approved balls for use.

 

6. 90 mins later, after being exposed to playing game conditions the patriot balls the balls were measured and found to  under spec. and that the colts balls were found to still be in spec.

 

7. The ball that the colts had for 15 min was the ball that measured 2lbs under.

 

8. at least one ball was under spec by almost 2 lbs.

 

What we do not know is

 

1. how many balls were under spec and how much each ball was and if each ball differed, (Mort say 11 balls all 2lbs under, Rappoport and PFT one ball 2lbs under the other balls slightly under to 1 lb under)

 

2.. What was the PSI of the balls that the colts submitted at the start of the game?

 

3. At what temp were the Colt balls inflated at. (if the colts inflated their footballs outside or in the unheated visitors equipment room)

 

 

If you have any understanding of the ideal gas law, you know that if the balls are inflated in a room that is the same temp as outside, there will be no PSI drop due to a change in ambient temp when the ball is placed outside. The balls will lose some pressure due to getting wet and the evaporative cooling.

If the pats locker room was at 75 degrees and the game was played at 50 degrees, each ball would expect to lose about 1 psi, a wet ball will lose more due to the evaporative Cooling about .5 psi. This is just the Physics, it is science and has already been duplicated in private labs and published.

[patman]

You're all over the damn place. When did I say anything about Kraft? 

The whole thread is espn against the pats.

[HessStation]

The whole thread is everybody against the pats.

[Jet9]

Ok let's go thru it again.

 

1. Grigson and Kensil hate the pats, I think on that we can agree.

 

2. Grigson told the league days  before the game that he suspected the balls may be uninflated.

 

3. The colts knew that the officials were going to check the balls during the game.

 

4. The pats equipment people inflated and measured the PSI at 12.5 in the locker room.

 

4. The pats submitted 12 balls at 12.5PSI to the officials for validation, 2 hours prior to the start of the game, the officials marked the balls as ok and gave them back to the ball boy 15 min prior to the start of the game. They also gave the colts their approved balls for use.

 

5. 90 mins later, after being exposed to playing game conditions the patriot balls the balls were measured and found to  under spec. and that the colts balls were found to still be in spec.

 

6. The ball that the colts had for 15 min was the ball that measured 2lbs under.

 

6. at least one ball was under spec by almost 2 lbs.

 

What we do not know is

 

1. how many balls were under spec and how much each ball was and if each ball differed, (Mort say 11 balls all 2lbs under, Rappoport and PFT one ball 2lbs under the other balls slightly under to 1 lb under)

 

2.. What was the PSI of the balls that the colts submitted at the start of the game?

 

3. At what temp were the Colt balls inflated at. (if the colts inflated their footballs outside or in the unheated visitors equipment room)

 

 

If you have any understanding of the ideal gas law, you know that if the balls are inflated in a room that is the same temp as outside, there will be no PSI drop due to a change in ambient temp when the ball is placed outside. The balls will lose some pressure due to getting wet and the evaporative cooling.

If the pats locker room was at 75 degrees and the game was played at 50 degrees, each ball would expect to lose about 1 psi, a wet ball will lose more due to the evaporative Cooling about .5 psi. This is just the Physics, it is science and has already been duplicated in private labs and published.

 

 

 

Do you think this was done on purpose by someone? 

[afosomf]

Ok let's go thru it again.

 

1. Grigson and Kensil hate the pats, I think on that we can agree.

 

2. Grigson told the league days  before the game that he suspected the balls may be uninflated.

 

3. The colts knew that the officials were going to check the balls during the game.

 

4. The pats equipment people inflated and measured the PSI at 12.5 in the locker room.

 

4. The pats submitted 12 balls at 12.5PSI to the officials for validation, 2 hours prior to the start of the game, the officials marked the balls as ok and gave them back to the ball boy 15 min prior to the start of the game. They also gave the colts their approved balls for use.

 

5. 90 mins later, after being exposed to playing game conditions the patriot balls the balls were measured and found to  under spec. and that the colts balls were found to still be in spec.

 

6. The ball that the colts had for 15 min was the ball that measured 2lbs under.

 

6. at least one ball was under spec by almost 2 lbs.

 

What we do not know is

 

1. how many balls were under spec and how much each ball was and if each ball differed, (Mort say 11 balls all 2lbs under, Rappoport and PFT one ball 2lbs under the other balls slightly under to 1 lb under)

 

2.. What was the PSI of the balls that the colts submitted at the start of the game?

 

3. At what temp were the Colt balls inflated at. (if the colts inflated their footballs outside or in the unheated visitors equipment room)

 

 

If you have any understanding of the ideal gas law, you know that if the balls are inflated in a room that is the same temp as outside, there will be no PSI drop due to a change in ambient temp when the ball is placed outside. The balls will lose some pressure due to getting wet and the evaporative cooling.

If the pats locker room was at 75 degrees and the game was played at 50 degrees, each ball would expect to lose about 1 psi, a wet ball will lose more due to the evaporative Cooling about .5 psi. This is just the Physics, it is science and has already been duplicated in private labs and published.

Yet every colts balls passed and every pats balls failed..... Physics cheated pats lmao

[Jet Fan RI]

Ok let's go thru it again.

 

1. Grigson and Kensil hate the pats, I think on that we can agree.

 

2. Grigson told the league days  before the game that he suspected the balls may be uninflated.

 

3. The colts knew that the officials were going to check the balls during the game.

 

4. The pats equipment people inflated and measured the PSI at 12.5 in the locker room.

 

4. The pats submitted 12 balls at 12.5PSI to the officials for validation, 2 hours prior to the start of the game, the officials marked the balls as ok and gave them back to the ball boy 15 min prior to the start of the game. They also gave the colts their approved balls for use.

 

5. 90 mins later, after being exposed to playing game conditions the patriot balls the balls were measured and found to  under spec. and that the colts balls were found to still be in spec.

 

6. The ball that the colts had for 15 min was the ball that measured 2lbs under.

 

6. at least one ball was under spec by almost 2 lbs.

 

What we do not know is

 

1. how many balls were under spec and how much each ball was and if each ball differed, (Mort say 11 balls all 2lbs under, Rappoport and PFT one ball 2lbs under the other balls slightly under to 1 lb under)

 

2.. What was the PSI of the balls that the colts submitted at the start of the game?

 

3. At what temp were the Colt balls inflated at. (if the colts inflated their footballs outside or in the unheated visitors equipment room)

 

 

If you have any understanding of the ideal gas law, you know that if the balls are inflated in a room that is the same temp as outside, there will be no PSI drop due to a change in ambient temp when the ball is placed outside. The balls will lose some pressure due to getting wet and the evaporative cooling.

If the pats locker room was at 75 degrees and the game was played at 50 degrees, each ball would expect to lose about 1 psi, a wet ball will lose more due to the evaporative Cooling about .5 psi. This is just the Physics, it is science and has already been duplicated in private labs and published.

 

New Englanders never set room temps at 75 deg. Re-do the calculation for a more realistic 65 degrees. Also the evaporative cooling point is a complete red herring. We have no idea how wet each of the balls were, nor do we know how much water on them actually evaporated. No evaporation produces no additional cooling.There just as well could have been virtually no evaporative cooling at all, and possibly as little as 0.5 psi drop due to temperature change.

[patman]

did you ever figure out the first cheating conviction the past* suffered ?

No, I hope you don't mean BB becoming the HC, as that was not league assigned but negotiated privately between the jets and the pats.  Kraft wanted BB and asked the jets for permission, the jets said no and BB then quit. The league ruled that bb could not coach anywhere but the jets for a period of one year. Parcells then called kraft in the famous darth vader dark side phone call. They then between themselves agreed on comp.  the league had nothing do do with it unlike the case when parcells left to join the jets and then stepped down and just became the GM and told BB to be the coach, the league then stepped in and said no. And the league negotiated with the jets and the pats. So BB was the official  coach of the jets twice and never coached anything.

[patman]

New Englanders never set room temps at 75 deg. Re-do the calculation for a more realistic 65 degrees. Also the evaporative cooling point is a complete red herring. We have no idea how wet each of the balls were, nor do we know how much water on them actually evaporated. No evaporation produces no additional cooling.There just as well could have been virtually no evaporative cooling at all, and possibly as little as 0.5 psi drop due to temperature change.

Maybe at planet fitness or work out world, but not a nfl locker room in January.  And as we both agreed we will see what Columbia says. and the ball will cool more just being wet, just like you would lose more heat placed in 40 degree water than you would in 40 degree air.

[Jet9]

Maybe at planet fitness or work out world, but not a nfl locker room in January.  And as we both agreed we will see what Columbia says.

 

 

They're running around sweating, on a 50 degree night I might remind you, but the teams handlers are going to set the locker room to a sweltering 75 degrees? 75 degrees inside is hot as hell.  

[patman]

 

Do you think this was done on purpose by someone? 

Do I think the pats or someone that works for them let air out of a football , No

[Jet Fan RI]

Maybe at planet fitness or work out world, but not a nfl locker room in January.  And as we both agreed we will see what Columbia says. and the ball will cool more just being wet, just like you would lose more heat placed in 40 degree water than you would in 40 degree air.

 

We did so agree. But for some reason instead of waiting for Columbia you continue to cite the most favorable physical conditions for the Pats. So I thought it would be a good idea to point out the least favorable physical conditions. And placement of the balls fully into water has zero relevance to this case. The question is whether the actual water the balls were exposed to could have had any significant effect. It is entirely possible there was so little water as to have had a negligible effect.

[patman]

We did so agree. But for some reason instead of waiting for Columbia you continue to cite the most favorable physical conditions for the Pats. So I thought it would be a good idea to point out the least favorable physical conditions. And placement of the balls fully into water has zero relevance to this case. The question is whether the actual water the balls were exposed to could have had any significant effect. It is entirely possible there was so little water as to have had a negligible effect.

But the pats only have to show that it was possible for it to occur. What if BB and the maintaince staff said on game days the locker room was at 78 degrees as guy are getting into and out of the whirlpool and are getting rubbed down on tables etc. There is no visual evidence showing any tampering. if it is possible for the balls to lose the air pressure that was lost in all the balls other than the one the colts had, what is the proof?   

[Jet Fan RI]

But the pats only have to show that it was possible for it to occur. What if BB and the maintaince staff said on game days the locker room was at 78 degrees as guy are getting into and out of the whirlpool and are getting rubbed down on tables etc. There is no visual evidence showing any tampering. if it is possible for the balls to lose the air pressure that was lost in all the balls other than the one the colts had, what is the proof?   

 

Actually, the Pats don't have to show anything. That is the job of the investigators. And the fact that they did try to show something reminds me of the guilty parties in the old Columbo series spinning their plausibility theories that they hoped would fool the good lieutenant. As for evidence of tampering, the video showing the guy bringing the balls into a restroom, plus the fumble rate statistics since 2007, are strong circumstantial evidence. in my judgment.

[Larz]

No

 

why am I not surprised ?

 

you bore me

 

I'm out

[Jet9]

Do I think the pats or someone that works for them let air out of a football , No

 

 

I have a problem. There's a $10,000 check I need cashed but the bank won't let me because it's from out of state. Will you forward me your bank account number and SSN? After it's cashed I will split it with you 50/50. Cool? 

[afosomf]

But the pats only have to show that it was possible for it to occur. What if BB and the maintaince staff said on game days the locker room was at 78 degrees as guy are getting into and out of the whirlpool and are getting rubbed down on tables etc. There is no visual evidence showing any tampering. if it is possible for the balls to lose the air pressure that was lost in all the balls other than the one the colts had, what is the proof?   

And Hernandez is innocent as no one seen him shoot Lloyd and cannot find murder weapon, let em play pats fans say

[patman]

Actually, the Pats don't have to show anything. That is the job of the investigators. And the fact that they did try to show something reminds me of the guilty parties in the old Columbo series spinning their plausibility theories that they hoped would fool the good lieutenant. As for evidence of tampering, the video showing the guy bringing the balls into a restroom, plus the fumble rate statistics since 2007, are strong circumstantial evidence. in my judgment.

Your saying that the wells team is going to use some stats from previous games in their findings?   Why would the pats not present an alternative hypothesis and make it public? Why would you trust the guys that investigated the ray rice video to perform due diligence?  If they did not present the theory, do you think wells would have asked Columbia to see if something occured that could have caused it, no f-ing way.

[patman]

And Hernandez is innocent as no one seen him shoot Lloyd and cannot find murder weapon, let em play pats fans say

Bullsh*t, another strawman. The pats cut him before the NFL suspended him. Unlike the ravens with Lewis.

[indygirl4jets]

If the pats are found guilty of deliberately letting air out of footballs or asking any employee or volunteer they should be punished.  I don't think any patriot fan would have much of a n issue with it.  Lets see what the lab at Columbia says occurs to footballs that suffer a 25 degree drop in temp and are wet for 90 min.  . 

Explain to me why the colts footballs tested fine???

[patman]

I have a problem. There's a $10,000 check I need cashed but the bank won't let me because it's from out of state. Will you forward me your bank account number and SSN? After it's cashed I will split it with you 50/50. Cool? 

No one would believe you have $50.

[Jet9]

No one would believe you have $50.

Nah, I'm just at the top of my industry at age 35. But yeah, cool.

[indygirl4jets]

All I'm seeing from Pats fans is that they cannot be objective at all.

When I find out a player on a team I root for get busted with PEDs or whatever I think GOD DAMMIT!!! And I don't ever even entertain the excuses.

Pats fans cannot do this apparently.

Same here, the colts have had some knuckleheads doing some stupid stuff in the off season. I dont make excuses for them either.

[Jet Fan RI]

Your saying that the wells team is going to use some stats from previous games in their findings?   Why would the pats not present an alternative hypothesis and make it public? Why would you trust the guys that investigated the ray rice video to perform due diligence?  If they did not present the theory, do you think wells would have asked Columbia to see if something occured that could have caused it, no f-ing way.

 

I  would think The Columbia guys would leave no stone unturned. That would include doing their own plot of fumble stats to uncover circumstantial evidence of guilt. If the reported jump in the plot at 2007 is real, I think that is powerful circumstantial evidence. It would also include checking locker room temps directly and testing thermostat calibrations, to reduce the unknowns to a minimum.

[patman]

Explain to me why the colts footballs tested fine???

 

I explained this in detail in post #141 in this thread. But I will repeat it.

 

Grigson, complained to the league days before the game regarding the patriot footballs being deflated. The colts knew the refs were going to test the balls. All the colts had to do was fill thier footballs outside or in a unheated space like the visitors equipment room and those balls would not suffer any PSI loss due to a change in ambient temp.

the only psi loss that the colts balls would experience is a loss to to the balls becoming wet and the resultant pressure loss due to becoming wet. If the colts filled thier balls to 13psi or more, they would still be over `12.5 at anytime during the game. High school chemistry.

[indygirl4jets]

I explained this in detail in post #141 in this thread. But I will repeat it.

 

Grigson, complained to the league days before the game regarding the patriot footballs being deflated. The colts knew the refs were going to test the balls. All the colts had to do was fill thier footballs outside or in a unheated space like the visitors equipment room and those balls would not suffer any PSI loss due to a change in ambient temp.

the only psi loss that the colts balls would experience is a loss to to the balls becoming wet and the resultant pressure loss due to becoming wet. If the colts filled thier balls to 13psi or more, they would still be over `12.5 at anytime during the game. High school chemistry.

And, I bet you also believe in the easter bunny, santa, and the tooth fairy.  lmao

[patman]

I  would think The Columbia guys would leave no stone unturned. That would include doing their own plot of fumble stats to uncover circumstantial evidence of guilt. If the reported jump in the plot at 2007 is real, I think that is powerful circumstantial evidence. It would also include checking locker room temps directly and testing thermostat calibrations, to reduce the unknowns to a minimum.

And how does Columbia quantify what value to place on BB benching Ridley for almost 5 games relegating him to mop up duty the year after he ran for 1300 yards because he fumbled 3 times in 150 carries. What value do they place on making the team practice with wet footballs as he keeps a bucket of water on the sidelines during training camp. Thing that players that come to the pats say they never seen before.

 

And please tell me how you check a locker room temp 30 days later. Locke rooms are not lab ovens with temp recording charts. .

[patman]

And, I bet you also believe in the easter bunny, santa, and the tooth fairy.  lmao

What part do you find hard to believe, that after Grigson getting his ass kicked in the superbowl, first with the rams, then the eagles and now getting his team blown out 4 games in a row by the pats that he loves and admires BB

[PFSIKH]

This is what I'm talking about, you can't be objective. Anyone with some common sense knows that there was some purposefully shady sh*t going on. But you're tossing out Columbia lab reports or something. There is so much evidence. And sure, maybe some of it is anecdotal. But this isn't a court of law as much as Pats fans want it to be. The Colts balls were fine, BTW. Do you honestly not believe this was done on purpose? Consider it as Team A and Team B, not the Pats and Colts. Team A is guilty as sh*t, bro. 

 

And neither can a Jets' fan.

 

Short of a video showing the refs measuring the balls before the game and/or a Patriots' employee deflating, what concrete evidence is there?  Well the refs said they did.  The Patriots said they did not.  That is hearsay on both accounts.

 

If the report that nothing was recorded is true and there is no video evidence showing the refs measuring and/or a Patriots' employee deflating, the league has nothing, but hearsay. 

[HessStation]

STOP CHEATING!!!!

[CaliforniaJet]

The Pats are cheaters, end of story. Only dynASSty that will always be associated with cheating multiple times.  

[CaliforniaJet]

cheating ass cheaters..........

[Jet Fan RI]

And how does Columbia quantify what value to place on BB benching Ridley for almost 5 games relegating him to mop up duty the year after he ran for 1300 yards because he fumbled 3 times in 150 carries. What value do they place on making the team practice with wet footballs as he keeps a bucket of water on the sidelines during training camp. Thing that players that come to the pats say they never seen before.

 

And please tell me how you check a locker room temp 30 days later. Locke rooms are not lab ovens with temp recording charts. .

 

If I were doing the investigation, I would attempt to quantify the influence of coaching strategies by plotting player fumble performance before. during, and after being members of the Pats. A striking example is Greenellis, who had average fumble stats before and after his Pats membership, but zero fumbles for the 4 years while a Pat. Admittedly an extreme example. That is why one should plot all players who have a before-, during-, and after-Pats membership history.

 

The thermostat issue would obviously involve interviewing whoever is responsible for thermostat settings. I suspect the thermostat is kept at the same temp before and after games, and is probably under a lock system to prevent players fiddilng with the settings. Easily determined in an investigation.  

[patman]

If I were doing the investigation, I would attempt to quantify the influence of coaching strategies by plotting player fumble performance before. during, and after being members of the Pats. A striking example is Greenellis, who had average fumble stats before and after his Pats membership, but zero fumbles for the 4 years while a Pat. Admittedly an extreme example. That is why one should plot all players who have a before-, during-, and after-Pats membership history.

 

The thermostat issue would obviously involve interviewing whoever is responsible for thermostat settings. I suspect the thermostat is kept at the same temp before and after games, and is probably under a lock system to prevent players fiddilng with the settings. Easily determined in an investigation.  

 

Again, you are talking about millionaire players who don't carry their own luggage and they are going to put a lock on the thermostat to save 50 bucks in heat for Sunday. Even Charley Finley from the As who charged his players for soda would not do that. These guys probably have guys that wipe down the machines after them for the next guy to use after they work out.  

 

And why is Green Eliis still playing if he is putting the ball on the ground. He would not be playing in NE putting the ball on the ground. And tell me how do you assign a numerical value to a human performance in different circumstances different locations, different run options, different  blockers, injury, it cannot be done and no scientist working at columbia would sign his name to it for any reason other than in abstract.

[JetsRay]

Bullsh*t, another strawman. The pats cut him before the NFL suspended him. Unlike the ravens with Lewis.

Are you seriously trying to praise the Pats because they released a player who they knew would be in the middle of a murder trial?

Do you homers have any pride?

[patman]

The Pats are cheaters, end of story. Only dynASSty that will always be associated with cheating multiple times.  

Well maybe until Rice said that he used stickum and said everybody did, which can easily be interpreted as the other guys on his team also. So I guess they cheated too.  Oh and since Denver ws docked a 3rd rd pick for cheating on Elway's salary the year that they won the SB, them too I guess.