Trade up

[Ex-Rex]

Yes....agree.

 

This happening is quite plausible.  The only real issue is how much is Philly willing to give away to get him.  

 

You have to hope the Raiders really value the blue chip player.  They'll likely be in a position to get either White or Cooper at 6...it might be worth it to them to pick up a 3rd or 4th...

He didn't say the Jets wanted to trade Mariota. I think he was saying Jets should move up to Oakland's spot to take him. If the Jets don't get a trade with the Eagles that involves Foles then they should take Mariota. But they don't have to move up. I think he will fall right in our laps at six. If Philly makes a deal in front of us the Jets should trade down to Cleveland at 12 and take the Michigan State CB or an offensive lineman.

[sourceworx]

First of all, LOL at sure things.

You are ALWAYS throwing darts at a board in the draft; it's not buying a car. The only difference between the 1st and subsequent rounds is that the board is bigger and gets progressively smaller.

There's risk in everything. However the risk increases exponentially when a player doesn't even know the fundamentals of the position he plays.

That's why these QBs typically drop in the draft.

[Ex-Rex]

I agree with you on the optimism on Sanchez.After the Pitt loss in 2011 championship game, I honestly thought we had our QB. Obviously, never happened.

And Rex Ryan was a major culprit as to why Sanchez never developed. He stripped the offense in 2012 of Thomas Jones, Braylon Edwards, Jerricho Cotchery and Alan Fanaca. Then told Sanchez to be better with much, much less. Not that Sanchez is ever going to be a great QB, but he could have been as good as Richard Todd was for us.  

[Jet Fan RI]

This is what got Idzik fired.  He was trying to build a team for the future (note the huge cap space) but it seems most Jet fans would prefer to win 9-10  games and lose in the WC round of the playoffs.

 

Just like everyone (and it's most of this board) advocating passing on a potential franchise QB because he's not a sure thing.  These are the people that are okay being a 9-10 win team...Because that's the best you're gonna do with whatever journeymen QB we'll have starting.  I would rather take a shot on a potential franchise QB and be in a position to compete for a championship - year in and year out - for a decade.  Than losing a WC round game once every 3 or 4 years.

 

you have to KEEP taking QB's until you find one.  Yes, if you miss (and there's a good chance you will) you start over again in three years and take another one.  I don't love the way the league is but it's the reality -  fans need to accept it.

 

You could give me White, Cooper and Fowler and without a QB you're not winning anything.  You might be better but a championship is what I'm after not a wildcard birth.

 

 

Interesting. I have the impression that almost everyone wants to take one of the two Heisman QB's. Fortunately, it doesn't matter what you, or I, or any fan wants. It only matters what the CS and FO  wants. But as for me as a fan, if the Jets trade up for one of those guys I will be convinced the new administration is just another bunch of clowns.

[The Troll]

2 problems with that line of thinking.

1 - are the jets better off with another Gholston, Robertson, or Pryor in lieu of rolling the dice on a franchise QB? there are no guarantees in the draft and if we are going to take a chance I'd rather have it be at THE impact position.

2 - when is a 'worthy' 1st rd QB going to be available? not just eligible for the draft but at a spot the jets can reasonable make the pick. if they go the stopgap route and continually draft in the 14-20 slot it would cost a fortune to move up to the top 3 to take said franchise QB and then it's still a crapshoot.

Mariota is clearly not Brady or Luck but he does remind me a lot of Wilson and I think he'll be able to move the chains with his legs in the NFL. I'm not entirely sold on Mariota but I'd rather take a chance at QB than any other position in the draft. What other positions are available - DT, WR, OLB? the best pass rushers in the NFL were home for the playoffs. As was Julio Jones. C Johnson has played like 2 playoff games in his career yet every year we see Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Manning, Flaco, Luck competing for super bowls.

1. Yes, the Jets were better off with Gholston, Pryor, and Robertson than they were with Sanchez. You miss on a different position and it sucks, but it is not the albatross on a franchise that missing on a quarterback is. Way to use extreme examples, by the way. Would you rather have Mo Wilkerson, Revis, Sheldon Richardson, or a mediocre QB that's a backup for the Eagles in four years?

2. It sounds like you're advocating the extremely successful strategy of NFL powerhouses like the Jaguars and Browns, which is burning a high draft pick on mediocre QB prospects just because you're in a draft position to do so.

Draft a first round QB if the QB would be a first rounder in ANY draft class, not just the weak QB class you're in. Look at 2011. The Titans, Jaguars, and Vikings certainly NEEDED QBs, but all of them would sign up for a do-over in a heartbeat. You keep burning a first rounder on a QB every two-three years and the rest of your team will go to sh*t in a hurry.

[FidelioJet]

1. Yes, the Jets were better off with Gholston, Pryor, and Robertson than they were with Sanchez. You miss on a different position and it sucks, but it is not the albatross on a franchise that missing on a quarterback is. Way to use extreme examples, by the way. Would you rather have Mo Wilkerson, Revis, Sheldon Richardson, or a mediocre QB that's a backup for the Eagles in four years?

2. It sounds like you're advocating the extremely successful strategy of NFL powerhouses like the Jaguars and Browns, which is burning a high draft pick on mediocre QB prospects just because you're in a draft position to do so.

Draft a first round QB if the QB would be a first rounder in ANY draft class, not just the weak QB class you're in. Look at 2011. The Titans, Jaguars, and Vikings certainly NEEDED QBs, but all of them would sign up for a do-over in a heartbeat. You keep burning a first rounder on a QB every two-three years and the rest of your team will go to sh*t in a hurry.

 

It's very easy to point out the teams that have failed at this strategy but you also have to look at the ones that have succeeded.

 

 Just about all Franchise QB's (there are a few exceptions) were first round QB's.  Both Mannings, Big Ben, Rodgers, Luck, Flacco...even someone like Stafford etc..  Pitts wasn't particularly good before Ben, The Colts before Peyton were a joke of a franchise, Giants were terrible...We all know about Detroit.

 

Point I'm making is it's easy to point to the bad teams that have failed with this strategy (hence them being bad teams) but you also have to look at the ones that succeeded with first round QB's.  The largest reason those teams are consistently good is because they have a QB.  

 

You keep taking QB's until you find one.  Because what's the point without one?  You can't just hope to get lucky and find one in the 6th round.

 

Once you find one you'll have a 15 years to build a team around him.  

[FidelioJet]

 You keep burning a first rounder on a QB every two-three years and the rest of your team will go to sh*t in a hurry.

So?

 

You're not winning without one anyway.  

[Jet Fan RI]

So?

 

You're not winning without one anyway.  

 

Probably not. But then the strategy becomes strengthening the team as much as you can so that, if you happen to somehow luck into a franchise QB after that you are ready to win. Fail to strengthen the team when you have a high draft pick and you probably won't win even if you do luck into a truly HOF QB.

 

Check the history of the Dolphins during the Marino era as reference.

[LionelRichie]

1. Yes, the Jets were better off with Gholston, Pryor, and Robertson than they were with Sanchez. You miss on a different position and it sucks, but it is not the albatross on a franchise that missing on a quarterback is. Way to use extreme examples, by the way. Would you rather have Mo Wilkerson, Revis, Sheldon Richardson, or a mediocre QB that's a backup for the Eagles in four years?

2. It sounds like you're advocating the extremely successful strategy of NFL powerhouses like the Jaguars and Browns, which is burning a high draft pick on mediocre QB prospects just because you're in a draft position to do so.

Draft a first round QB if the QB would be a first rounder in ANY draft class, not just the weak QB class you're in. Look at 2011. The Titans, Jaguars, and Vikings certainly NEEDED QBs, but all of them would sign up for a do-over in a heartbeat. You keep burning a first rounder on a QB every two-three years and the rest of your team will go to sh*t in a hurry.

 

My point is twofold - 1) that you need a QB to be successful in today's NFL and 2) 1st rd non-QB's can still suck.  

 

When you realize that your QB isn't the answer you need to find a new one.   Rather than creating competition at the QB position Idzik pushed all in with Geno last season.   In doing so he passed on Bridgewater, Garrappolo, Carr, Mettenburger, and Murray.   I can tell you without a doubt i'd rather be going into 2015 with Carr, Garrappollo, or Bridgewater than Calvin Pryor.  

 

Going back to my initial post, if Mariota is there at #6 and the GM/HC like him then he instantly gives this team and fanbase hope for the future.   You can still sign a journeyman (ex. Matt Moore) to ensure Mariota stays on the sideline for at least a year to give him the best chance to succeed.  

[peebag]

This team sucks, the only thing we should be coinciding is a trading back

this - neither of the top 2 qbs are sure things - Jests have waaaay too many holes to fill.

[Joe Jets fan]

this - neither of the top 2 qbs are sure things - Jests have waaaay too many holes to fill.

But again, nothing you do to the team matters if there is not a good QB, nothing.

[Jet Fan RI]

But again, nothing you do to the team matters if there is not a good QB, nothing.

 

Not true. If you build a strong team everywhere except at QB, you are at least ready to make a SB run once you have the right QB. So building the team in the meantime is important.

 

Case to prove the point: Dan Marino. Never won a SB, and you can't hang the blame for that on him. Now, Marino was a contemporary of Joe Montana. Do you think those 49er teams would have won any fewer SB's if they had Marino in place of Montana? At least I hope you don't. But the point is, even with a franchise QB, the Dolphins couldn't win a SB.

 

The moral of the story: In a weak year for QB draft picks, you build the rest of the team.

[CTM]

This is what got Idzik fired.  He was trying to build a team for the future (note the huge cap space) but it seems most Jet fans would prefer to win 9-10  games and lose in the WC round of the playoffs.

 

 

No, what got idzik fired was poor drafting, heading into the season with no CB's and producing one of the last talented rosters in the NFL

[sourceworx]

It's very easy to point out the teams that have failed at this strategy but you also have to look at the ones that have succeeded.

Just about all Franchise QB's (there are a few exceptions) were first round QB's. Both Mannings, Big Ben, Rodgers, Luck, Flacco...even someone like Stafford etc.. Pitts wasn't particularly good before Ben, The Colts before Peyton were a joke of a franchise, Giants were terrible...We all know about Detroit.

Point I'm making is it's easy to point to the bad teams that have failed with this strategy (hence them being bad teams) but you also have to look at the ones that succeeded with first round QB's. The largest reason those teams are consistently good is because they have a QB.

You keep taking QB's until you find one. Because what's the point without one? You can't just hope to get lucky and find one in the 6th round.

Once you find one you'll have a 15 years to build a team around him.

The difference is Luck, Big Ben, both Mannings, and Flacco all knew how to take a snap under center, drop back, and throw a football.

Rogers is the one lone exception, and he dropped like a rock in the draft. He also had the benefit of being able to sit and learn for a few years under a Hall of Famer.

A QB selected in the top ten should only need half a season (one full season tops) only to get used to the speed of the game.

People are talking about Mariota needing A SEVERAL years to learn how to play the position (but we THINK he'll eventually figure it out!!!!) You pick players like that later in the draft. Not the top ten.

[Gastineau Lives]

People are talking about Mariota needing A SEVERAL years to learn how to play the position (but we THINK he'll eventually figure it out!!!!)

 

Link?

[Joe Jets fan]

The difference is Luck, Big Ben, both Mannings, and Flacco all knew how to take a snap under center, drop back, and throw a football.

Rogers is the one lone exception, and he dropped like a rock in the draft. He also had the benefit of being able to sit and learn for a few years under a Hall of Famer.

A QB selected in the top ten should only need half a season (one full season tops) only to get used to the speed of the game.

People are talking about Mariota needing A SEVERAL years to learn how to play the position (but we THINK he'll eventually figure it out!!!!) You pick players like that later in the draft. Not the top ten.

Who said SEVERAL years???

Now your just making things up.

[sourceworx]

Who said SEVERAL years???

Now your just making things up.

I thought I read somewhere this past week that some analysts believe he'll need a few years.

I'll dig around to find it.

[Savage69]

I thought I read somewhere this past week that some analysts believe he'll need a few years.

I'll dig around to find it.

I think it was a year or so not several like Rogers had but then he was behind a HOF QB..

[FTL Jet Fan]

Not true. If you build a strong team everywhere except at QB, you are at least ready to make a SB run once you have the right QB. So building the team in the meantime is important.

 

Case to prove the point: Dan Marino. Never won a SB, and you can't hang the blame for that on him. Now, Marino was a contemporary of Joe Montana. Do you think those 49er teams would have won any fewer SB's if they had Marino in place of Montana? At least I hope you don't. But the point is, even with a franchise QB, the Dolphins couldn't win a SB.

 

The moral of the story: In a weak year for QB draft picks, you build the rest of the team.

What happens if you don't find one for 6 years and your players u put in place get old then u start all over again. Not advocating drafting Mariota however but if a FO thinks a player is a franchise QB they better take a shot.

[DoubleDown]

I think Mariota is a better prospect than some people are giving him credit for, but I agree that he is a project and will need some time to develop an NFL level skill set.  His running game is very smooth and natural (reminds me of Wilson).  He needs to work on some fundamentals like taking a snap from under center and going through progressions, but he seems to have the intellect, work ethic, and physical tools to develop these parts of his game.

 

I would have no problem with drafting him at #6, but trading up for him is definitely a tougher sell.  Some people have it and most people don't.  Mariota has potential and appears to have an it factor, but nothing is sure bet.

[FidelioJet]

What happens if you don't find one for 6 years and your players u put in place get old then u start all over again. Not advocating drafting Mariota however but if a FO thinks a player is a franchise QB they better take a shot.

 

I would take it a step further...If they think he even has a shot to be a franchise QB they have to take him.

 

Too many on here are making it out to be whoever else we take at six or in a trade down is a lock to be great.  Those picks are crap shoots too.  I would rather miss with the potential turning the entire franchise around than having a receiver with no one to throw him the ball.

[Jet Fan RI]

What happens if you don't find one for 6 years and your players u put in place get old then u start all over again. Not advocating drafting Mariota however but if a FO thinks a player is a franchise QB they better take a shot.

 

Well there is a draft every year, so if you practice a "best player available" approach you can replace the aging players. But I do agree, if the administration actually feels Mariota truly is a potential franchise QB and he falls to them at the 6th pick, they should take him. But in my mind the history of Heisman QB's in the NFL is so extraordinarily dismal, I think there is a huge mountain to climb before you reach the conclusion that Mariota is the right pick. The history says he is very unlikely to even succeed in the NFL, and even less likely he will win a SB. Remember, all time only 2 Heisman QB's have won a SB. And only 1 for the team that drafted him.

[Jet9]

The only player worth trading up for is Winston

Leonard Williams is pretty damn good. Not saying we should do it. But I wouldn't fault the team that does.

[The Troll]

My point is twofold - 1) that you need a QB to be successful in today's NFL and 2) 1st rd non-QB's can still suck.

When you realize that your QB isn't the answer you need to find a new one. Rather than creating competition at the QB position Idzik pushed all in with Geno last season. In doing so he passed on Bridgewater, Garrappolo, Carr, Mettenburger, and Murray. I can tell you without a doubt i'd rather be going into 2015 with Carr, Garrappollo, or Bridgewater than Calvin Pryor.

Going back to my initial post, if Mariota is there at #6 and the GM/HC like him then he instantly gives this team and fanbase hope for the future. You can still sign a journeyman (ex. Matt Moore) to ensure Mariota stays on the sideline for at least a year to give him the best chance to succeed.

Of the QBs you listed, only Bridgewater was a first round pick and he certainly wasn't taken in the top six. Of course position players bust, but the bust rate is much higher and much more damaging to a team when you're taking a QB that's only highly touted because there isn't much to tout about that particular QB class.

If we're desperate for a QB (which we are) why would we take a QB that needs to sit for an entire year because he has no clue how to play a pro style? Because of "future hope"? F that. Draft a QB that's worth their draft slot. This is how you end up the Jaguars, Titans, or Browns.

[Jetster]

"Worrying" is not a reason to not make a trade like that. Even if RGIII had lived up to the promise he showed as a rookie, the Rams still would have been wrong not to take that deal.

Why?

Isn't the goal to win the Superbowl? Do you think the Rams will win a bowl with their QBs as constituted?

So while it was cute & funny that Fisher sent all his picks out to the coin toss to embarrass the Redskins, he's really in no better position to win a Superbowl right now than the Redskins.

I don't want to just win the AFC East, I want to dominate it when Brady ages.

It's not often that your in position to take a top QB.

I heard some guys talking on Sirius NFL & they were saying it will get worse not better regarding college QBs coming from spread offense. College coaches have to win & the spread abuses less athletic defenses & allows you to score & BLOWOUT opponents.

The Detroit Lions have the BEST WR IN PRO FOOTBALL and tell me what Detroits overall record is with him.

And that's with a DECENT QB getting paid WAY TOO MUCH MONEY!

Stafford was drafted before the CBA 1st round salary cap.

Under the new CBA you gotta keep swinging to get starting QB.

Look at the top QBs & how old they are! After them do your list, Mariota doesn't have to be Joe Montana or Tom Brady, he just needs to be better than Ryan Tannyhill, EJ Manuel & Garrapalo!

[The Troll]

Why?

Isn't the goal to win the Superbowl? Do you think the Rams will win a bowl with their QBs as constituted?

So while it was cute & funny that Fisher sent all his picks out to the coin toss to embarrass the Redskins, he's really in no better position to win a Superbowl right now than the Redskins.

I don't want to just win the AFC East, I want to dominate it when Brady ages.

It's not often that your in position to take a top QB.

I heard some guys talking on Sirius NFL & they were saying it will get worse not better regarding college QBs coming from spread offense. College coaches have to win & the spread abuses less athletic defenses & allows you to score & BLOWOUT opponents.

The Detroit Lions have the BEST WR IN PRO FOOTBALL and tell me what Detroits overall record is with him.

And that's with a DECENT QB getting paid WAY TOO MUCH MONEY!

Stafford was drafted before the CBA 1st round salary cap.

Under the new CBA you gotta keep swinging to get starting QB.

Look at the top QBs & how old they are! After them do your list, Mariota doesn't have to be Joe Montana or Tom Brady, he just needs to be better than Ryan Tannyhill, EJ Manuel & Garrapalo!

Funny you bring up the Detroit Lions, as they have a top pick QB who's too good to let go and not good enough to win a championship with.

I don't think Mariota will be a good pro QB. I want no part of him. That's really the bottom line.

[patman]

I thought I read somewhere this past week that some analysts believe he'll need a few years.

I'll dig around to find it.

I heard one guy say that on tv. But you get that wlth most all prospects. Somebody always does not like somebody. How soon he is ready to go depends on how much of an NFL offense do you want him to run. Kap was pretty successful for two seasons with doing one read, then a check down then run.   Marriotta appears to be more savvy than Kap was coming out. 

[patman]

Funny you bring up the Detroit Lions, as they have a top pick QB who's too good to let go and not good enough to win a championship with.

I don't think Mariota will be a good pro QB. I want no part of him. That's really the bottom line.

What do you mean that Stafford is not good enough to win a championship? He most certainly is. Don't blame him for the failure of those around him. Mainly the coaching staff and FO.  They have been cursed with rb injuries and they have ignored the oline since he has been there.

[The Troll]

What do you mean that Stafford is not good enough to win a championship? He most certainly is. Don't blame him for the failure of those around him. Mainly the coaching staff and FO. They have been cursed with rb injuries and they have ignored the oline since he has been there.

Oh yeah, his zero playoff wins and inability to come remotely close to his 2011 numbers ever again scream franchise QB.

So, do his 57 total turnovers in the last three years.

[section314]

I heard one guy say that on tv. But you get that wlth most all prospects. Somebody always does not like somebody. How soon he is ready to go depends on how much of an NFL offense do you want him to run. Kap was pretty successful for two seasons with doing one read, then a check down then run.   Marriotta appears to be more savvy than Kap was coming out. 

 

I said this in another thread, and I'll say it again here. When scouts talk about Winston they say things like ' football IQ off the charts, great arm strength, fits ball into tight windows,'. With Mariota you get' great kid, hard worker, great athlete." Makes it sound like they are trying to sell you on a player lacking  NFL caliber talent. Add that to the very visible fact that Ohio State not only made him irrelevant in the bowl game, but had better athletes that punished him all night long. They exposed him as Alabama did a few years ago with Te'o. Just don't see this guy as the answer, surely not with 6th pick.As many have said, best scenario is for him to go before us, and not have to deal with it.

[drdetroit]

Your a troll because you disagree with everything said on here. Not my points but everyone's points. Always negative.

I'm only negative because 80% of the ideas on here are pure s.