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Nolder

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Thanks, Crush! *blows kiss*

 

I know some people are saying the game wasn't balanced, but my being a godfather never even came into play. I'm pretty proud of my first JN scum win. 

 

The issue for some of us is that this was touted as a basic game, and there was a bus driver.  I would never expect a bus driver.  The discussion Nolder and I had in the dead thread about open setups is probably good - if we run games with advanced roles, we should probably have an open setup.

 

The driver role ended up allowing game mechanics to essentially decide the game.  Scum played well, absolutely, but clearing Nyn sealed the deal for town.

 

 

 

 

I was so busy fighting off the retard brigade of Ardis. Ctm. Lizzie I lost focus. Constant pressure. I play by my instincts, I even knew at end of day 1 Arsis was not scum. Pressure from the yards. I never looked cause they put me in defensive mode. I ended doing the same dumb thing to Verbal out of frustration.sorry verb.

 

<3

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The driver role ended up allowing game mechanics to essentially decide the game.  Scum played well, absolutely, but clearing Nyn sealed the deal for town.

I don't believe that to be the case.

What if Nyn was the Godfather and Lily just a Goon?

In some ways the game would be different but the fact that Nyn would have been false cleared would not have changed.

I don't believe that Nyn being false cleared via Bus Driver was the single deciding factor for the game.

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Agree to disagree, no worries.  Leelou was dead, and Nyn was viewed - had that come back as mafia, she'd have been lynched and Lily would have been alone.  Granted, at some point she would have likely been viewed town due to the GF role, that never needed to occur because Nyn being cleared allowed her to dominate the remainder of the game instead of being lynched.

 

That, IMO, was the deciding factor.  But that's just my opinion, and I'm probably retarded.  hehe

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I don't think Lily would have been viewed at any point, for the very simple fact that Leelou pushed her so hard the entire time she was alive. There's the reason why Arsis kept targeting other players (at least that was my impression).

 

I agree with Nolder. Had I been the godfather you would have had the very same result - me cleared as a townie. Someone did bring up the option of Verbal being a godfather when he was cleared, but no one thought to do the same when CTM and I were cleared, and that was on town. 

 

The only thing I thought was off balance was having two scums that could be read as town. There should either been a bus driver or a godfather. Not both. But in this specific game it didn't make much of a difference since Lily wasn't viewed at any point... despite us keeping the cop alive for like three extra days LOL

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Another thing you have to keep in mind is that I WANTED to be viewed and that affected the way I went about things. Had I not been in a position to be able to manipulate the results, I think I would have tried to manage myself differently.

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Another thing you have to keep in mind is that I WANTED to be viewed and that affected the way I went about things. Had I not been in a position to be able to manipulate the results, I think I would have tried to manage myself differently.

^^ this

 

Town should have picked up on that.  We all wondered why the cop was still alive.  not sure we connected it to drawing a conclusion that scum did not fear being investigated.  Truth is if we lynched someone cleared probably would have been Verb and it would make no difference. 

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I don't believe that to be the case.

What if Nyn was the Godfather and Lily just a Goon?

In some ways the game would be different but the fact that Nyn would have been false cleared would not have changed.

I don't believe that Nyn being false cleared via Bus Driver was the single deciding factor for the game.

'

 

If nyn was godfather, Smash would be alive.. Thereby giving town an extra investigation that smash probably wouldn't have used properly.. lol

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Not complaining and thank you for the game, scum, particularly Nyn, played well. We also got screwed because our hider didn't play his role properly. And we had some town on town violence

 

All that being said, the game was definitely unbalanced in favor of scum. Having a cop who could effectively find 1 of 3 scum, and inadvertently clear 2/3 of the scum team isn't a basic game. He was more of an asset for you then for us. 

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Not complaining and thank you for the game, scum, particularly Nyn, played well. We also got screwed because our hider didn't play his role properly. And we had some town on town violence

 

All that being said, the game was definitely unbalanced in favor of scum. Having a cop who could effectively find 1 of 3 scum, and inadvertently clear 2/3 of the scum team isn't a basic game. He was more of an asset for you then for us. 

Yes.

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Agree to disagree, no worries.

Yep. Just wanted to make my disagreement clear lol.

 

Leelou was dead, and Nyn was viewed - had that come back as mafia, she'd have been lynched and Lily would have been alone.

Well...depends what you mean by alone.

Leelou and Nyn would have still been in the QT and been able to plan with her.

Although she'd need to play the numbers game and last longer so yeah there is that.

 

Granted, at some point she would have likely been viewed town due to the GF role, that never needed to occur because Nyn being cleared allowed her to dominate the remainder of the game instead of being lynched.

I'm not saying it didn't effect the game.

I just don't think that was the one deciding factor.

There were a lot of things that played into how this game went.

Like for example I'll use a point against my own setup.

Had there not been a BD Smash would have hid with Arsis and been able to semi clear him which probably would have reduced all suspicion on him. Instead Smash hid behind Nyn and died.

 

That, IMO, was the deciding factor.  But that's just my opinion, and I'm probably retarded.  hehe

 

 

I don't think Lily would have been viewed at any point, for the very simple fact that Leelou pushed her so hard the entire time she was alive. There's the reason why Arsis kept targeting other players (at least that was my impression).

Disagree.

I think Arsis was kind of just floating along but had he been paying more attention he should have viewed Lily.

She didn't say too much that game and was flying under the radar which makes her a good person to view and also like you said that thing with Leelou. Both of those things made her a prime candidate to be viewed but she never was.

 

The only thing I thought was off balance was having two scums that could be read as town. There should either been a bus driver or a godfather. Not both.

I agree.

I'd never seen BD used to clear someone before.

Now that I know that can happen (and it's my fault for not realizing it in the first place) I wont be including them in games together anymore.

Unless it's just like a crazy role madness game or a huuuuuge game which I hate making anyway.

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Another thing you have to keep in mind is that I WANTED to be viewed and that affected the way I went about things. Had I not been in a position to be able to manipulate the results, I think I would have tried to manage myself differently.

Nahh. I would have viewed you no matter what. You were my first scum read in the game.

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'

 

If nyn was godfather, Smash would be alive.. Thereby giving town an extra investigation that smash probably wouldn't have used properly.. lol

Lol I was gonna say yeah Smash didn't seem to know what to do with the Hider role.
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All that being said, the game was definitely unbalanced in favor of scum. Having a cop who could effectively find 1 of 3 scum, and inadvertently clear 2/3 of the scum team isn't a basic game. He was more of an asset for you then for us. 

 

Agreed

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Btw my reasoning for including Hider was for what potentially happened.

I wanted a way for town to lose an extra member...but I also felt they needed more utility as well.

Usually what comes to mind is a Vig for that sort of thing but I feel like Vig is a liiiittle overused here.

So I decided to go with Hider because I thought it could make for some cool cat and mouse moments with the Bus Driver.

And like it was like an extra cop...but also a ticking time bomb that could make for an extra death at the wrong moment.

Idk...I thought it was cool.

In retrospect if I made this game again I'd just switch Godfather for something else. Maybe a scum Tracker.

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I don't think Lily would have been viewed at any point, for the very simple fact that Leelou pushed her so hard the entire time she was alive. There's the reason why Arsis kept targeting other players (at least that was my impression).

 

I agree with Nolder. Had I been the godfather you would have had the very same result - me cleared as a townie. Someone did bring up the option of Verbal being a godfather when he was cleared, but no one thought to do the same when CTM and I were cleared, and that was on town. 

 

The only thing I thought was off balance was having two scums that could be read as town. There should either been a bus driver or a godfather. Not both. But in this specific game it didn't make much of a difference since Lily wasn't viewed at any point... despite us keeping the cop alive for like three extra days LOL

Actually, in this game there should have been NEITHER.

 

Who's up for a basic game?

It'll have normal roles but wont be 100% vanilla (aka cops, docs, etc).

Nothing weird just regular mafia.

Nobody was thinking there would be a Bus Driver.  This above quote from the signup thread was pretty clear.  I would have thought a GF was possible, yes, but definitely not a BD as I don't associate that with a "normal" role, or "basic".

 

Take the driver out and leave everything else, and Lily would have been playing alone after D2.  Would town still have imploded with town on town violence and ignored the early GF thoughts?  Very possible.  But this game would have gone down much differently than it did - is my only point.  I think the BD role and subsequent clearing of you is what decided this game.

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Yeah, that's me - whining about games all the time.........

 

I'm pretty sure you'd be singing a different tune if our places were reversed.  As it is, I'm still tipping my cap to a game well played.

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I wouldn't be singing a different tune for the existance of a bus driver in the game. I'd be saying the exact same thing about thinking that there shouldn't be a bus driver and a godfather in the same game. Hypocrisy hint noted, though.

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