JetsRay Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Flamboyant? That's the difference? That's what you got out of that post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 That's what you got out of that post? I think when you write a post that compares one of the best ILB of all time to David Harris (and I like David Harris) puts the entire post into question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 And what player that plays the same position and has the value Harris has had to the Jets team are you comparing this to? Said this in the David Harris thread... I think folks are seriously undervaluing Harris With the shift of the cap, how does anybody here know what the proper "value" of Harris or any player should be? None of you work in the NFL nor do you know what the value of players are. I won't claim to know either, maybe the Jets are paying a little more, but there is no question Harris was going to be well sought after in FA, and that in itself drove his value I think many are missing the key points - Harris was #1 MLB in FA - Harris has been a rock solid 3 down player for the last several years, he earned every bit of the last contract he signed - Harris is a leader on this team, players look up to him, and he's one of the most professional players who brings his lunch pail to work every day - Unquestioned character and integrity, Harris brings it, doesn't talk too much, but is a silent assassin Those knocking Harris because he doesn't have safety speed are missing the point and missing Harris' role, he's the QB on defense, could that have been replaced, yes, but at what cost? If we let Harris go, who is the guy that we bring in during FA? Harris didn't get a big money long term deal, it's a 3 year deal designed to transition the position to the guy who's going to replace him in the near future, but Harris is still a 3 down player who can be phased out. Harris isn't old yet either. Look at how long a player like Ray Lewis played, Harris has a similar stigma on this team, obviously not as flamboyant, but let's not undermine the value Harris has had. There is no doubt Rex wanted Harris in Buffalo. Another angle to think about are the players Bowles has had in Miami and Arizona Larry Foote was a central player on his defense the last two years, and he will be 35 this year Carlos Dansby was another middle LB on Bowles defense the year before last year and was in Miami with him as well, he will be 34 this year Pretty sure the Cardinal defense didn't suffer with these two players QB'ng Bowles defenses the last several years. This leads me to believe Bowles values a veteran player at the MLB position, and Harris just turned 31 Their strength was blitzing and having their secondary hold their own. Larry foote played for 1 million dollars this past season and Karlos Dansby got paid something like 3 million if I'm not mistaken. Having said that, if Bowles can make ILBs play better than their salaries, why pay an old ILB 7.5 mil a year? Especially when we have a decision to make next year on DD. If that's the case I'd continue to pay 1-2 years rentals for half the amount and spend that money elsewhere. David Harris is still good, just digressing, as are most players as they turn 31. He's done a lot for this team, you're absolutely right about his character, but his inability to cover is getting worse as is the rest of his game because he's getting slower. That said, I just really don't believe he was worth 7.5 million a year. I would say 5.5 is fair. But hey, if he plays better than 7.5 mil a year than it's a win-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Their strength was blitzing and having their secondary hold their own. Larry foote played for 1 million dollars this past season and Karlos Dansby got paid something like 3 million if I'm not mistaken. Having said that, if Bowles can make ILBs play better than their salaries, why pay an old ILB 7.5 mil a year? Especially when we have a decision to make next year on DD. If that's the case I'd continue to pay 1-2 years rentals for half the amount and spend that money elsewhere. David Harris is still good, just digressing, as are most players as they turn 31. He's done a lot for this team, you're absolutely right about his character, but his inability to cover is getting worse as is the rest of his game because he's getting slower. That said, I just really don't believe he was worth 7.5 million a year. I would say 5.5 is fair. But hey, if he plays better than 7.5 mil a year than it's a win-win. This is right. Most of us aren't freaking out - it's $4mm extra over two years - not killing anything. But seems to me like they could have went younger for cheaper. With that said, it'll be nice to have Harris back. Hope when all's said and done after FA - this signing didn't hurt anything. I still have a lot of faith in Mac/Bowles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Forget Revis. I love him just as much as any Jet fan. But let that one go. We don't need him or his garbage uncle following him around every off season. He's 30. Im with you on that. I was on this forum during the year "Revis Island" was born, and I said that Revis weekly performance was for sure the best single season performance I've ever seen from a CB and arguably the best season by a CB ever. And the fact that he didnt get DPOTY and 1 or 2 MVP votes was total bullsh*t. And I say today that we can spend that money better. We can get a respectable CB and the top RT for the same amount of money we would have to pay Revis. And though I've always been a supporter of Revis getting paid, I'd rather he get his money elsewhere because the Jets are not set up as being one CB away from a SB. I'd rather get some young guys in here to grow with the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsRay Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I think when you write a post that compares one of the best ILB of all time to David Harris (and I like David Harris) puts the entire post into question. Except that I didn't compare or even equate Harris to Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 By rule you're not allowed to until tuesday That doesn't mean you can't verbaly agree to a deal. It just means you can't submit the offer to the NFL for approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 That doesn't mean you can't verbaly agree to a deal. It just means you can't submit the offer to the NFL for approval. My mistake, I thought they were not allowed to talk numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Just wanted to respond to Maxman, who said if we got Cro and another starting caliber CB that Milliner if he comes back strong maybe beats out Cro at one point. Then. it would be good to see Cro moved to safety since he is a pretty good ball hawk. That usually happens to many CBs at the end of their careers, Cro will never ever play safety in this league. Hes afraid to tackle anyone squared up to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 David Harris is still good, just digressing, as are most players as they turn 31. He's done a lot for this team, you're absolutely right about his character, but his inability to cover is getting worse as is the rest of his game because he's getting slower. That said, I just really don't believe he was worth 7.5 million a year. I would say 5.5 is fair. But hey, if he plays better than 7.5 mil a year than it's a win-win. Maualuga is making 5 mil. per year on his new 3 yr deal with the Bengals so I'd say you're just off with what you believe Harris should be paid. He's 3 times the player Maualuga is, he was easily the best ILB available. There is no way you let him walk with as much cap space as we have unless you can upgrade at that position and that clearly wasn't the case. Had Macc allowed him to walk the media would have been all over him for being another Idzik who is just trying to somehow save some cash. Plus he would have gotten more on the FA market anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Heck, a slow, 31 year old ILB got $7.5 a year - what do you expect is going to happen with young quality CB's... Free agents are going to be expensive this year. Be prepared to pay. We do have a ton of money though A slow 31 year old ILB got overpaid by a few million. He's a great run stopping linebacker. Pretty good at rushing the passer but awful in coverage, and he's losing a step. He's not worth 7.5 mil a year. I'm okay with it because he's a good guy and the salary cap is continuing to go up, but definitely got overpaid. Those that say Harris got overpaid have no idea how the NFL works this time of year. Harris, Cobb, Ingram etc ALL knew what they were going to get on the open market as did their teams. Agents talk. There at all the same places Front Offices and scouts are. Harris was getting 7.5 no matter what. What team(s) told David Harris they were willing to pay him 7-8m? Not sure. But Rex Ryan gave a 28 yr old slow Bart Scott a 6 yr - 48 million dollar deal when he came to the Jets. That was 8 million a year (8.5m each the first 3 years) at a time when the cap was much smaller. Im guessing Rex would have done the same thing here without blinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 My mistake, I thought they were not allowed to talk numbers They call it the "legal tampering" period. That's why you hear about certain teams being close to signing deals while other players return to their teams after they realize the FA market wasn't going to offer much more (Cobbs, K. Jackson etc.) Only reason why we are not talking to Revis (directly) is because he's still under contract for 2015. He'll be a FA on Monday but I just have a bad feeling he'll stick with the cheaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Those that say Harris got overpaid have no idea how the NFL works this time in history. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I really don't want to make a big deal about this...but no one is sweating anything. I'm on a Jets message board, discussing their first major singing (As you know the others were depth signings) It's not "sweating" to look at a signing and deem it questionable...and when it's the first major signing of a new regime it's also reasonable to have concerns. Not calling for their head, not saying they're not good or won't be great (in fact I've been clear I love the Marshall trade)...Just expressing an opinion on their first major signing.. If you have a differing opinion, so be it. as free agency goes on, just keep me updated on the high demand players who sign cheap undervauled deals there are more contracts like this coming. if macc is going to get into bidding wars for corners and other high demand players, literally every single deal will be "overpaying" that's how you win a bidding war when you are coming off of 4-12 and your QB is geno smith. rodgers kept cobb in green bay. I just don't see it as anything other than the market. simple. doesn't mean macc and his team are incompetent it means they are bidding on high demand talent with verty little to get the deal done other than guaranteed money his job description right now is to make it rain like a monsoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Those that say Harris got overpaid have no idea how the NFL works this time of year. Harris, Cobb, Ingram etc ALL knew what they were going to get on the open market as did their teams. Agents talk. There at all the same places Front Offices and scouts are. Harris was getting 7.5 no matter what. What team(s) told David Harris they were willing to pay him 7-8m? Not sure. But Rex Ryan gave a 28 yr old slow Bart Scott a 6 yr - 48 million dollar deal when he came to the Jets. That was 8 million a year (8.5m each the first 3 years) at a time when the cap was much smaller. Im guessing Rex would have done the same thing here without blinking. There is a thing called replacement cost that teams look at when they bring back their own guys at the last minute. So many times it's the "devil you know vs the one you don't " theory. To your excellent analogy about Bart Scott, Harris so much better a player than Bart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 You get what you pay for if last seasons CB fiasco wasn't enough proof for you then you dont get it and never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 You get what you pay for if last seasons CB fiasco wasn't enough proof for you then you dont get it and never will. Zis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 as free agency goes on, just keep me updated on the high demand players who sign cheap undervauled deals there are more contracts like this coming. if macc is going to get into bidding wars for corners and other high demand players, literally every single deal will be "overpaying" that's how you win a bidding war when you are coming off of 4-12 and your QB is geno smith. rodgers kept cobb in green bay. I just don't see it as anything other than the market. simple. doesn't mean macc and his team are incompetent it means they are bidding on high demand talent with verty little to get the deal done other than guaranteed money his job description right now is to make it rain like a monsoon Well, that's the question. I'm not saying for sure if it's market or not (In fact I've already stated in this thread - I believe ultimately it will prove out to be market) but it is much higher than most any of us thought it would - And no it doesn't mean they're incompetent but it also doesn't mean they are... What I have to go on so far is a very good trade and a signing that was substantially higher than most expected. The next two months will give us a much clearer picture as to their competence.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Agreed. In a nutshell I'd say 99% of the people that post here have no clue what they are talking about with regard to player valuation and the money being spent. There are even times I'm skeptical of Jason OTC, because while he knows capology, there's still an element of knowing the market that can only be informed by actually shopping in it. Only the general managers and agents have that insight. Not bloggers, not reporters and certainly not fans. Only 99%? lol. Even GM's and agents are taking educated guesses and often over or under estimate. If I was in that spot, I'd get the guy that fits my strategy at nearly all costs and not worry too much about overpaying a bit. The cap is going up so much each year that within a year or two it will seem like a bargain. We like to call it spending ahead of the curve.. My issues so far with the Jets is that we are gathering older players, Harris, Marshall (apparently going hard for Revis) when most thought we'd be looking to get younger/faster and build for the future. From what is looks like, these guys have every intention of competing this year.. which is fine, but if it happens at the expense of the future then not so great, particularly considering the single biggest reason we won't win a SB (QB) isn't likely to be addressed this offseason thereby in effect capping how far we could go this year anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njjetman Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I think the reason the front office didn't make a bid for Jackson is because they know something that we don't know about signing Revis. I'll almost bet that we sign Revis. Some people say he is getting old, but I believe he has 4-5 good years lift in the tank before he starts dropping off. He doesn't rely on his physical abilities as much as his knowledge of how to play the position that is why I don't see him dropping off. I would like to see 4 years 13m per year 26m guaranteed for the first 2 years, that way wee can back out of the deal after 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 If by some stroke of luck Mariota falls to 6 & Chip Kelly makes a deal we can't refuse the Jets will have the draft ammo to compete now, and down the line. Harris deal is really 2 years. There is no guaranteed future money with Marshall against the cap. 2 signings that will have absolutely no long term ramifications on our cap. We have to do what we are doing. This is NY. Fans including myself do not want to hear we are "rebuilding" the next 3 years. Not when you were in 80% of the games you played with a dead man walking coach, absolutely horrible CBs, 1 decent receiver over 6' tall, a rookie TE, and a defense ranked 32nd in takeaways! That tells me as fan if your starting out free agency with approx. 65 million to spend, I want you to do everything you can to try to get the players in here that can tip those scales to give us a chance at a wildcard. With a terrible QB this team went to 2 AFC championships. Parity people, parity. My god the Jets played better defense vs the Pats than the Seahawks did! THERE ARE NO GREAT TEAMS in this league anymore. They all have warts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Well, that's the question. I'm not saying for sure if it's market or not (In fact I've already stated in this thread - I believe ultimately it will prove out to be market) but it is much higher than most any of us thought it would - And no it doesn't mean they're incompetent but it also doesn't mean they are... What I have to go on so far is a very good trade and a signing that was substantially higher than most expected. The next two months will give us a much clearer picture as to their competence.. agree ! macc and graves need to work very fast next week. idzik was cheap, but what was worse is he was slow. he got blown away on day 1. day 1 you have to ring the doorbell at midnight. I am not a big fan of day 1 FA signings (see wallace, mike) but this year is different. macc and graves have a fan base desperate for big names and splashy moves, and have to spend the money. if macc and graves get blown away on day 1, day 2, they will wind up giving deals to marginal starters that look a lot like harris' deal. something like 5 more of those I'm sure all the agents have the jets on their list. they know the jets have to spend. they know woody likes big names. I just hope and pray they don't have a repeat of the asomugha thing where they lost out of good players lusting after 1 guy. you can see them losing out on 5 good players while getting used by revis to get more out of the past* that to me would be the inexcusable sin, not giving a guy 120% of what he is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 agree ! macc and graves need to work very fast next week. idzik was cheap, but what was worse is he was slow. he got blown away on day 1. day 1 you have to ring the doorbell at midnight. I am not a big fan of day 1 FA signings (see wallace, mike) but this year is different. macc and graves have a fan base desperate for big names and splashy moves, and have to spend the money. if macc and graves get blown away on day 1, day 2, they will wind up giving deals to marginal starters that look a lot like harris' deal. something like 5 more of those I'm sure all the agents have the jets on their list. they know the jets have to spend. they know woody likes big names. I just hope and pray they don't have a repeat of the asomugha thing where they lost out of good players lusting after 1 guy. you can see them losing out on 5 good players while getting used by revis to get more out of the past* that to me would be the inexcusable sin, not giving a guy 120% of what he is worth. I have nothing to back this up other than some "anonymous reports" but I get the feeling Mac is getting ready to do just that. Pay what it takes to get the guys he wants. I honestly think Revis is coming back (I would put better than 50/50 that happens) I'm pretty certain Cro is coming back...and I wouldn't be surprise to see us make a move for McCourty too. That defense would be nasty.... Pick up a guard, pay Mo and trade for Foles and we're ready to roll....I would love that team!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bergenjets Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I think the reason the front office didn't make a bid for Jackson is because they know something that we don't know about signing Revis. I'll almost bet that we sign Revis. Some people say he is getting old, but I believe he has 4-5 good years lift in the tank before he starts dropping off. He doesn't rely on his physical abilities as much as his knowledge of how to play the position that is why I don't see him dropping off. I would like to see 4 years 13m per year 26m guaranteed for the first 2 years, that way wee can back out of the deal after 2 years. Revis will get $15+ million per year and big guaranteed money ($40+ million), no matter where it is he lands. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njjetman Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I say he will be the difference between the jets having a great defense as a posed to a good one. the cover corners are the key that makes the defense click. I would expect 10 more sacks with Revis covering Than the scrubs we had last year. I SAY PAY HIM 15m AND SIGN Cromarte AS INSURANCE, and hope for the best from milliner and mcdougle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Revis is the answer to the defense he adds a dimension that makes everyone else better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Those that say Harris got overpaid have no idea how the NFL works this time of year. Harris, Cobb, Ingram etc ALL knew what they were going to get on the open market as did their teams. Agents talk. There at all the same places Front Offices and scouts are. Harris was getting 7.5 no matter what. What team(s) told David Harris they were willing to pay him 7-8m? Not sure. But Rex Ryan gave a 28 yr old slow Bart Scott a 6 yr - 48 million dollar deal when he came to the Jets. That was 8 million a year (8.5m each the first 3 years) at a time when the cap was much smaller. Im guessing Rex would have done the same thing here without blinking. Just because it happens every year doesn't mean they're not overpaid. Rex Ryan is an imbecile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Schroy Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 If money is equal, Darrelle Revis will choose Patriots: sources BY Seth Walder , Manish Mehta NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Saturday, March 7, 2015, 11:51 AM The Patriots are likely to decline Darrelle Revis' $20 million option, opening the door for other teams, like the Jets, to possibly sign him. If the Jets want a reunion with Darrelle Revis, they’re going to have to pay more than the Patriots are willing to. If Revis receives comparable financial offers on the open market, the star cornerback plans to re-sign with New England, according to sources. Revis isn’t technically a free agent yet, but the Patriots are not expected to exercise the cornerback’s $20 million option for 2015. That decision must be made by March 9. Revis has spent just one season with the Patriots, but has a Super Bowl ring to show for it. The Jets, who have a desperate need at cornerback, are clearly pondering a run at Revis since the News reported earlier this week that owner Woody Johnson has been involved in internal discussions with GM Mike Maccagnan about the elite corner. Just as the case was under Rex Ryan, Todd Bowles’ defensive system puts a heavy emphasis on man-coverage corners like Revis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njjetman Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Those that say Harris got overpaid have no idea how the NFL works this time of year. Harris, Cobb, Ingram etc ALL knew what they were going to get on the open market as did their teams. Agents talk. There at all the same places Front Offices and scouts are. Harris was getting 7.5 no matter what. What team(s) told David Harris they were willing to pay him 7-8m? Not sure. But Rex Ryan gave a 28 yr old slow Bart Scott a 6 yr - 48 million dollar deal when he came to the Jets. That was 8 million a year (8.5m each the first 3 years) at a time when the cap was much smaller. Im guessing Rex would have done the same thing here without blinking. I AGREE ...I say rex was sitting in his buffalo truck half way to harm's door step Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njjetman Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I say rex was sitting in his buffalo truck half way to harm's door step Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njjetman Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I SAY THE JETS HAVE TO OUTBID THE PATS BY 1.5M TO LAND REVIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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