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The De Aza move gives them depth, someone who can platoon and start if needed and give them 300-500 at bats if there are injuries. He's not a bad player. I question the money involved to sign him. It kind of reminds me of the Chris Young deal and you know how unsuccessful that one was; Although after leaving the Mets he's played pretty well and got a similar deal with the Red Sox. If it's our only outfield move then you have to assume it's all about low payroll. I don't think the Mets are ready to roll yet in terms of being serious contenders for another NL pennant. The only reason we got that far was because they did get an impact hitter. Now we're minus our two best bats from last season. I'm really not high on Wright to carry the team. 

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The only reason we got that far was because they did get an impact hitter. 

At the trade deadline. Which is where we'll have the best chance to make a move once again in 2016. Get Wheeler back in June, let him get a few starts to show he's healthy, then move him for a bat. Too easy.

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A guy with a bat like Cespedes might not be available in late July. Sandy did a good job but had to give up a very good prospect to get him.I have no problem with that: it got us a NL pennant. To me you can build a team without a power bat like the Royals did but they had speed and we don't. To me going into the season with a bottom ten payroll is inexcusable for a New York franchise. And the Mets could have afforded to pay Murphy. He got something like 12 mil per for 3 seasons. The Nats made a good deal with that signing. 

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A guy with a bat like Cespedes might not be available in late July. Sandy did a good job but had to give up a very good prospect to get him.I have no problem with that: it got us a NL pennant. To me you can build a team without a power bat like the Royals did but they had speed and we don't. To me going into the season with a bottom ten payroll is inexcusable for a New York franchise. And the Mets could have afforded to pay Murphy. He got something like 12 mil per for 3 seasons. The Nats made a good deal with that signing. 

I'd rather take the 1st round pick and Walker for significantly cheaper. I have zero problem with letting Murphy go and for refusing to give a 30-year old who isn't comfortable in CF a 5/6 year deal.

Get Span and we'll have enough speed and contact guys on the roster to win the division, and are a Joey Votto deadline trade away from another WS run.

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At the trade deadline. Which is where we'll have the best chance to make a move once again in 2016. Get Wheeler back in June, let him get a few starts to show he's healthy, then move him for a bat. Too easy.

Maybe. I think we'll call Nimmo up around the same time and see how he looks. Alderson clearly has some more money to work with because of the Zobrist thing, but I don't think that's going to the outfield, and if it does it would only be if they had to send Nimmo back down. If they call him up the guy is going to need games, so I can see why they're a little hesitant about anything. Worth noting they offered Ces 2-3 years, so it's not like they're not trying. But there has to be some sort of balance to be found between the future players and trying to repeat last year.

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I was hoping they would have signed Upton for CF or traded for Carlos Gonzalez.  Trading for a better defensive SS prospect would have been smart, since defensively, this infield still has holes.

4 of the Mets' top 10 prospects play short. We're fine in that area. If our farm system needs anything it's more outfielders.

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Actually I take that back. This farm system needs more pitching. Always. It's pretty incredible the sh*t you can accomplish when you're loaded to the gills with good pitching from the majors down. The Mets traded away Fulmer for a half-year rental and it was totally worth it because who gives a sh*t.

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The De Aza move gives them depth, someone who can platoon and start if needed and give them 300-500 at bats if there are injuries. He's not a bad player. I question the money involved to sign him. It kind of reminds me of the Chris Young deal and you know how unsuccessful that one was; Although after leaving the Mets he's played pretty well and got a similar deal with the Red Sox. If it's our only outfield move then you have to assume it's all about low payroll. I don't think the Mets are ready to roll yet in terms of being serious contenders for another NL pennant. The only reason we got that far was because they did get an impact hitter. Now we're minus our two best bats from last season. I'm really not high on Wright to carry the team. 

The Mets had a lot more happen than just Cespedes late last season. Thor established himself as an Ace, Wright got healthy, our catcher got healthy, Granderson started to hit like the player they thought they were signing, Conforto was called up and hit well, Flores and Tejada both hit enough at a position of weakness for us and Duda went absolutely insane a few times.  Our bench acquisitions in Johnson and Uribe chipped in with some huge hits as well.

Walker is a better all around player than Murphy and a switch hitter which gives us another right handed bat against lefties which we desperately needed. No one was screaming to resign Murphy before the first two rounds of the post season. We have a 2nd baseman on the way that is predicted to be a .300 hitter in the majors as well.

Cespedes would make us the NL favorite but he also raised more than a few eyebrows with his lackluster play in the WS.  He made everyone around him better in our line-up when he was hot but there are always bats available at the deadline.

I'm hard pressed to think of an NL roster (other than the Cubbies who have had a great winter) that is better than the Mets today. 

Edited by GimmeShelter
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The Mets had a lot more happen than just Cespedes late last season. Thor established himself as an Ace, Wright got healthy, our catcher got healthy, Granderson started to hit like the player they thought they were signing, Conforto was called up and hit well, Flores and Tejada both hit enough at a position of weakness for us and Duda went absolutely insane a few times.  Our bench acquisitions in Johnson and Uribe chipped in with some huge hits as well.

Walker is a better all around player than Murphy and a switch hitter which gives us another right handed bat against lefties which we desperately needed. No one was screaming to resign Murphy before the first two rounds of the post season. We have a 2nd baseman on the way that is predicted to be a .300 hitter in the majors as well.

Cespedes would make us the NL favorite but he also raised more than a few eyebrows with his lackluster play in the WS.  He made everyone around him better in our line-up when he was hot but there are always bats available at the deadline.

I'm hard pressed to think of an NL roster (other than the Cubbies who have had a great winter) that is better than the Mets today. 

We'll be in the thick of things for sure. I have to believe that the Nats will rebound, and no way St Louis has the same injury problems two years in a row. It's an even-numbered year so the Giants will be great. Arizona, Pittsburgh, and LA probably too. All three divisions have 2-3 teams that can legit compete for the pennant which in theory should make for a really fun season in the NL. We have the best pitching staff, that's for damn sure.

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I have no problem not going after Ces. I will be forever grateful for his insane run, but I don't trust him at all with the type of money he wanted. I would have been happy to get him at the price we were willing to pay, but there are so many red flags with the guy, not to mention, he is a failed PED test and 50 game suspension waiting to happen.

I love Murph, but not sure you can pay him that much money for bad defense in the middle infield.

Zobrist would have been nice, but again, very high priced.

Its really hard for me to kill Sandy or the Mets this offseason. I think the formula is still there to add a big bat mid season if needed.

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As for Murphy's bad defense. At times it was like he was in a fog. A ball would be hit right to him and he'd muff it. And it seemed to usually be in an important situation. But overall at second base he was adequate and sometimes made very good plays in the field. But those lapses fans could never forget or forgive and he was branded as a no field guy when he actually was better than that. He is an average second baseman (not his best position) who messes up a lot. Again I think the Nats made a good signing esp since they wanted left handed bats. They just got one of the best ones in the NL.

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As for Murphy's bad defense. At times it was like he was in a fog. A ball would be hit right to him and he'd muff it. And it seemed to usually be in an important situation. But overall at second base he was adequate and sometimes made very good plays in the field. But those lapses fans could never forget or forgive and he was branded as a no field guy when he actually was better than that. He is an average second baseman (not his best position) who messes up a lot. Again I think the Nats made a good signing esp since they wanted left handed bats. They just got one of the best ones in the NL.

His -40 runs saved is 2nd worst at the position over the last 4 years, only behind Rickie Weeks (-62).

Those lapses are what makes him a bad defensive 2B.  Not an "average" one.  It's like saying Geno Smith looks good except when he's throwing pick 6's. Generally, you're not allowed to have that many lapses and get paid $12M+ a year unless it's a stupid team making that call, like the Nationals.  He belongs in the American League.

Neil Walker doesn't have Murphy's power.  But in every other way he's superior to Murphy.  One glorious postseason run doesn't change that.

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I've watched Murphy a lot in the field and don't think he's terrible. He can make plays but I agree that he's below average. And I like Walker too and he had similar power stats to Murph. The thing is Walker's on the final year of his contract. Which in a way is good. We could get a big year out of him. And I'm sure if he does the Mets won't re-sign him. They will get an extra high draft pick. Too bad our team has to operate like this and always be on the cheap. 

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I've watched Murphy a lot in the field and don't think he's terrible. He can make plays but I agree that he's below average. And I like Walker too and he had similar power stats to Murph. The thing is Walker's on the final year of his contract. Which in a way is good. We could get a big year out of him. And I'm sure if he does the Mets won't re-sign him. They will get an extra high draft pick. Too bad our team has to operate like this and always be on the cheap. 

The only thing that Murphy is better than Walker art is contact. And I give Murph props there. Every other batting tangible, Walker is better. And his defense is is much better.

 

My problem with this off-season was I wanted Span instead of De Aza. Much rather have Span.

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I've watched Murphy a lot in the field and don't think he's terrible. He can make plays but I agree that he's below average. And I like Walker too and he had similar power stats to Murph. The thing is Walker's on the final year of his contract. Which in a way is good. We could get a big year out of him. And I'm sure if he does the Mets won't re-sign him. They will get an extra high draft pick. Too bad our team has to operate like this and always be on the cheap. 

The Mets have their 2nd Baseman of the future waiting in the wings. Most scouts agree he will be a .300 hitter in the Majors so no, Walker is likely not in their long term plans nor should he be if the scouts are correct.  You are just searching for something to complain about at this point. In your last two posts in this thread you've waffled in calling Murphy first and average fielder only to then call him below average when proven wrong statistically. 

Dilson Herrera:

The 21-year-old batted .327/.382/.511 with 11 home runs, 50 RBI, and 13 stolen bases over 81 games with Triple-A Las Vegas this season

Edited by GimmeShelter
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As for Murphy's defense he's not that bad despite the stats. They don't say everything. He can usually make the plays and even good plays. But his lapses are what gives him a rep as a bad fielder. I don't think he is so bad, but probably like Scott says below average when you compare him to other starting second basemen. Imo he is not a liability in the field. He's much better at 2nd than Flores is at SS. 

 

Edited by Rangers9

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The Mets have their 2nd Baseman of the future waiting in the wings. Most scouts agree he will be a .300 hitter in the Majors so no, Walker is likely not in their long term plans nor should he be if the scouts are correct.  You are just searching for something to complain about at this point. In your last two posts in this thread you've waffled in calling Murphy first and average fielder only to then call him below average when proven wrong statistically. 

 

There is no guaranteed this guy is going to be a .300 hitter, let alone a MLB player. The Mets for most of Sandy's time here have been willing to go with minor league players on their MLB roster. To cut costs. At least I'm not defending the Wilpons. You're about the only Mets fan I've ever heard defend them. 

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There is no guaranteed this guy is going to be a .300 hitter, let alone a MLB player. The Mets for most of Sandy's time here have been willing to go with minor league players on their MLB roster. To cut costs. At least I'm not defending the Wilpons. You're about the only Mets fan I've ever heard defend them. 

I've never defended the Wilpon's.  I am pointing out that you are inventing issues when they're simply not there other than Cespedes which we all agree with you on.

The team went into this off season needing to improve at SS, 2B, CF and the pen. They have done so w/out giving up anything of value or handcuffing themselves financially. 

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There is no guaranteed this guy is going to be a .300 hitter, let alone a MLB player. The Mets for most of Sandy's time here have been willing to go with minor league players on their MLB roster. To cut costs. At least I'm not defending the Wilpons. You're about the only Mets fan I've ever heard defend them. 

Were you happy, when they had some of the highest payrolls, and didn't win?

 

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I've never defended the Wilpon's.  I am pointing out that you are inventing issues when they're simply not there other than Cespedes which we all agree with you on.

The team went into this off season needing to improve at SS, 2B, CF and the pen. They have done so w/out giving up anything of value or handcuffing themselves financially. 

My point is that with the Wilpons we have a bottom ten payroll. This is not inventing an issue. And with this pitching we could have a better team (and a playoff contender) if we sign more bonafide MLB players. You seem to accept this and are ok with it. I'm not. With this pitching we could win another pennant. We need more offense and some of our bats like Duda and Wright are very inconsistent. 

Edited by Rangers9

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I want a competitive payroll. And for ownership to run the team like it's the Big Apple not small market. That doesn't mean signing crazy Dodger and Angels type deals. But you can get a heck of a lot better team when you are not bottom ten. Look at the past five seasons (not including 2015-when we did spend some money late and it worked). We were mediocre and playing AAA players like Campbell and Kirk.

 

 

Edited by Rangers9

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My point is that with the Wilpons we have a bottom ten payroll. This is not inventing an issue. And with this pitching we could have a better team (and a playoff contender) if we sign more bonafide MLB players. You seem to accept this and are ok with it. I'm not. With this pitching we could win another pennant. We need more offense and some of our bats like Duda and Wright are very inconsistent. 

OK.  Answer three questions for me.

1.) Tell me at what position the Mets do not have a bonafide MLB player ?

2.)  At which positions other than CF  (depending how you feel about Lagares) do the Mets have a glaring need for an immediate upgrade?

3.) Please spell out what you're off season would look like.

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OK.  Answer three questions for me.

1.) Tell me at what position the Mets do not have a bonafide MLB player ?

2.)  At which positions other than CF  (depending how you feel about Lagares) do the Mets have a glaring need for an immediate upgrade?

3.) Please spell out what you're off season would look like.

So are you advocating that a 110 payroll is good enough. I think you can look at available free agents plus guys like Cargo who  may be  available in a trade. Not sure we can win in 2016 without a big bat. We wouldn't have won last year without  Cespy I did like what I saw from Duda at. end of the year. He was not going for balls in the dirt and way out of the strike zone. But I'm not willing to go with that kind of inconsistency either. If he loses it again next season to me he's just another Ike Davis. So  we need someone on the roster who can hit and play first base if he fails again. As for Wright, he  is definitely health wise a guy who might not be able to last the entire season. So I maybe re-sign both Kelly Johnson and maybe Uribe. Or someone else who is available. For all this you need money. All these other teams including winners like the Giants are not going into the season without making deals or signing free agents. One rumor is that Cespy will sign with them. Because they know what they're doing and that you have to spend money to have a good chance to win.

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You're talking about bench players.  It's December and the team has not finished their roster yet. I'm sure Flores and Cabrera can play 3rd base if need be and likely will see some time there.

As for the big bat, we've covered that already. The Wilpon's likely won't do that until the deadline again. 

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You're talking about bench players.  It's December and the team has not finished their roster yet. I'm sure Flores and Cabrera can play 3rd base if need be and likely will see some time there.

As for the big bat, we've covered that already. The Wilpon's likely won't do that until the deadline again. 

You seem to be satisfied with what they have.  This is not complaining these are the facts in terms of team payroll. And I think that 95% of Mets fans agree with me on this and do not have any sympathy or appreciation of the Wilpons as owners. Have you ever heard them booed at games. They're hated!  I think we can have a better MLB roster to go along with great starting pitching and a great closer. Even if we sign 5 million a year players kind of like de Aza, four more guys like Kelly Johnson, etc would add up to 20 mil. And Cargo only has two years left with 37 mil remaining. If the Wilpons are not willing to bite that bullet and even go for a 150 payroll then they are rolling the dice and not trying to put together a team that has a better chance to win. The Mets were competitive going into August last season because of their pitching. But they never would have won without those bats they acquired esp Cespy. So you'd have to think this season isn't going to be so much different. And there are questions marks to me including Conforto. He is not a proven MLB starter yet. What if he hits .220 next year.

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I gave specific answers. Spend 150. Get 4 more players like Uribe and Kelly Johnson for $20 million and maybe another relief pitcher like Bastardo. Make sure you have back ups at 3rd and 1st to cover injuries or deep slumps. Get a big bat like Cargo who would cost about 37 over 2 seasons. Just an example of what could be done with about 40 mil. I think Conforto will play well but it isn't a slam dunk. I'd say about .270, 20-80.

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I gave specific answers. Spend 150. Get 4 more players like Uribe and Kelly Johnson for $20 million and maybe another relief pitcher like Bastardo. Make sure you have back ups at 3rd and 1st to cover injuries or deep slumps. Get a big bat like Cargo who would cost about 37 over 2 seasons. Just an example of what could be done with about 40 mil. I think Conforto will play well but it isn't a slam dunk. I'd say about .270, 20-80.

They have been basically doing exactly what you are saying in signing Cabrera, De Aza and Blevins.  Flores now becomes a very good utility /middle infield player. Tejada, (if on the 25 man roster) can also play SS, 2nd and 3rd.  They still have four months to add a Kelly Johnson or Uribe type of player (or two) to back-up 1B and the corner outfield spots, so again, I don't understand the complaint with their off season to date.

As for trading for Cargo...... I would hope they are looking into that possibility but you can rest assured that with his remaining contract being so friendly, the asking price will include one of our young stud SP's. I wouldn't do that trade unless it was with Wheeler.  

My preference would be to sign Upton or Cespedes but that won't happen with the Wilpon's and Sandy unless the years of the contract come down. They will likely wait until the trade deadline approaches to add a big bat. 

Edited by GimmeShelter

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One guy whose name hasn't come up for the Mets is Alex Gordon. A guy the Royals would love to re-sign. He's not only just a very good baseball player but a team leader and someone they don't want to lose. He doesn't have big time offensive numbers but can play 1st and 3rd and is an above average defensive outfielder. Not sure the kind of money he'll be asking for but he declined a 13 mil one year option with the Royals. If in the Grandy stratosphere (60 for 4 years) a very good overall player and a guy who helps win pennants. Most rumors have the CWS interested in him. 

Edited by Rangers9

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What if he hits .280 with 25 fingers?

You ask questions, but don't provide many answers.

He'll have a helluva time finding a glove.  Probably will hurt his fielding...

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OK.  Answer three questions for me.

1.) Tell me at what position the Mets do not have a bonafide MLB player ?

2.)  At which positions other than CF  (depending how you feel about Lagares) do the Mets have a glaring need for an immediate upgrade?

3.) Please spell out what you're off season would look like.

3 - Desmond at SS instead of Asdrubal Cabrera, keep Murphy, keep Cespedes, sign O'Day.

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3 - Desmond at SS instead of Asdrubal Cabrera, keep Murphy, keep Cespedes, sign O'Day.

I was screaming for O'Day too. But the word on the street is he ******* loves Baltimore and if someone were to pry him away they would have had to seriously outbid the Orioles. Going a ton higher than 4/31, I don't know, that just seems way too high for a setup guy, especially with the variance that BP pitchers have year to year.

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3 - Desmond at SS instead of Asdrubal Cabrera, keep Murphy, keep Cespedes, sign O'Day.

I don't think many teams feel Desmond is that good of a defensive SS and he probably is looking for money the Mets won't entertain. He may sign somewhere and end up playing another position. They tried to keep Murphy for a year but to go three years with a kid on the way in their system didn't make sense. I want Cespedes as well but we know the Wilpon's aren't giving him 6yrs and 100 mill plus.  O'Day was reported to have taken less money than the Nats and Braves offered to stay in Baltimore so not sure we ever had a chance without paying him crazy money.

I think they add another reliever and another outfielder who can also play 1B .... a Steve Pearce, Luke Scott type unless they feel the guy they signed from the Angels (Krauss) can compete for a bench  job as a back-up 1st Baseman.

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