Beerfish Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Simms as backup has more upside than Fitty I have no problem with you not liking Fitzpatrick, none at all. What is your viable alternative plan? Who are going to be the three QB's on the Jets next year and what is their depth chart ranking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Kevin White...back at ya only reason to get fitz is to draft M&M and have fitz has vet backup and ditch geno Or to draft anyone and not force that rookie in before he's ready. And do it without handing Smith another week 1 starting gig. Keep in mind, a rookie might beat out Smith for the summer and still be woefully unready to start right away. I see little downside to the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Geno once through a hail mary out of bounds. I'll take the QB with a limited physical skillset who can get a football to an actual receiver. Fitzpatrick has never won more than 6 games in a season. His career interception percentage is the EXACT SAME as Geno's last year. He has 9 game winning drives in his career. Geno has 7 in two years. Go look back, WAY back, at the first two seasons in which Fitzpatrick was a starter. He was WAY worse than Geno. It's no longer relevant, of course, except that players CAN improve. Hopefully, Geno does, and hopefully he gets the chance to win out in competition over the road to nowhere known as Ryan Fitzpatrick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 ...and a 7th next year is valueless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Go look back, WAY back, at the first two seasons in which Fitzpatrick was a starter. He was WAY worse than Geno. It's no longer relevant, of course, except that players CAN improve. Hopefully, Geno does, and hopefully he gets the chance to win out in competition over the road to nowhere known as Ryan Fitzpatrick. I already posted actual numbers on this. You have to go all the way back to 2009 to find a time when Fitzpatrick was Geno-bad, and even then he was better than Geno circa 2014.....is that what you mean? Fitzpatrick has been a better QB than Geno, statistically, in every season from 2010-2015 than Geno was in '13 and '14. Last year he had the 9th-ranked QB rating and 13th-ranked DVOA. Tangible numbers says you're wayyyyy wrong on this one. I know you're sad we didn't get Mike Glennon but there's no sense in losing all objectivity over it. If you really think the best plan is to wait and see if Geno can be a decent QB, rather than start the guy who is actually pretty decent right now, then there's no further discussion to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I already posted actual numbers on this. Fitzpatrick has been a better QB than Geno, statistically, in every season from 2010-2015 than Geno was in '13 and '14. Last year he had the 9th-ranked QB rating and 13th-ranked DVOA. Tangible numbers says you're wayyyyy wrong on this one. I know you're sad we didn't get Mike Glennon but there's no sense in losing all objectivity. but did he throw a perfect game last year like Geno? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 but did he throw a perfect game last year like Geno? Even on Geno's best day last season he threw half the TD's that Fitzpatrick did on his best day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I already posted actual numbers on this. Fitzpatrick has been a better QB than Geno, statistically, in every season from 2010-2015 than Geno was in '13 and '14. Last year he had the 9th-ranked QB rating and 13th-ranked DVOA. Tangible numbers says you're wayyyyy wrong on this one. I know you're sad we didn't get Mike Glennon but there's no sense in losing all objectivity over it. 25-41 as a starter with the exact same number of game winning drives that Geno has in two years from 10-15. You just said that we were a playoff team now based on the Jets acquiring a QB that has never won more than 6 games in a season. Has nothing to do with Glennon and everything to do with the fact that Fitzpatrick is what he is, and he isn't good enough, while Geno is 25 years old and may actually get better. The best thing that can happen for the Jets is a legitimate, real QB competition in training camp that Geno wins on his own merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 25-41 as a starter with the exact same number of game winning drives that Geno has in two years. You just said that we were a playoff team now based on the Jets acquiring a QB that has never won more than 6 games in a season. Has nothing to do with Glennon and everything to do with the fact that Fitzpatrick is what he is, and he isn't good enough, while Geno is 25 years old and may actually get better. The best thing that can happen for the Jets is a legitimate, real QB competition in training camp that Geno wins on his own merit. If the only statistic you're going to look at is W-L then of course you're going to draw that conclusion about Fitzpatrick. Are you intentionally being obtuse by not looking beyond it? He's played for Buffalo, Tennessee and Houston. Not exactly powerhouse organizations. Mark Sanchez started his career 20-12 with 4 road playoff wins. It's meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Fitzpatrick has never won more than 6 games in a season. His career interception percentage is the EXACT SAME as Geno's last year. He has 9 game winning drives in his career. Geno has 7 in two years. Go look back, WAY back, at the first two seasons in which Fitzpatrick was a starter. He was WAY worse than Geno. It's no longer relevant, of course, except that players CAN improve. Hopefully, Geno does, and hopefully he gets the chance to win out in competition over the road to nowhere known as Ryan Fitzpatrick. If he earns it in camp, why wouldn't Geno fail to get the chance to start? I would give Fitz the nod off the bat, but no one thinks he deserves to have 16 starts handed to him. Many think Smith would have no chance of taking that starting job away, but that's something different. You're weighing team success (or failure) and placing it all on 1 player (even if he played very well). With Buffalo he QB'd a bunch of games with 100-120 passer ratings and they still lost, happened a couple of times in less than 1 season with Tennessee and again last year with Houston. It's weak to put that on him as games he lost. Smith just came off a career season, of sorts. In his career year he got benched and turned the ball over more times than he threw or ran in for TDs. He also completes over 60% of his passes. Fitzpatrick's a mediocre starting QB who can play long enough to get us to our next long-term starter. Or he's an excellent backup who surely offers more in a mentor capacity (to a rookie) than Geno Smith would. I'm totally fine with either of these roles, since there wasn't much of an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 If the only statistic you're going to look at is W-L then of course you're going to draw that conclusion about Fitzpatrick. Are you intentionally being obtuse by not looking beyond it? He's played for Buffalo, Tennessee and Houston. Not exactly powerhouse organizations. Mark Sanchez started his career 20-12 with 4 road playoff wins. It's meaningless. The wins and losses, combined with his lack of game winning drives tell a story about a QB that may put up decent stats, but is unable to come through when his team needs him the most based on his lack of physical talent that becomes an albatross when the defense knows what's coming. Same problem I had with Chad Pennington. If we're losing late in the fourth quarter, we've already lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny16 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 If he earns it in camp, why wouldn't Geno fail to get the chance to start? I would give Fitz the nod off the bat, but no one thinks he deserves to have 16 starts handed to him. Many think Smith would have no chance of taking that starting job away, but that's something different. You're weighing team success (or failure) and placing it all on 1 player (even if he played very well). With Buffalo he QB'd a bunch of games with 100-120 passer ratings and they still lost, happened a couple of times in less than 1 season with Tennessee and again last year with Houston. It's weak to put that on him as games he lost. Smith just came off a career season, of sorts. In his career year he got benched and turned the ball over more times than he threw or ran in for TDs. He also completes over 60% of his passes. Fitzpatrick's a mediocre starting QB who can play long enough to get us to our next long-term starter. Or he's an excellent backup who surely offers more in a mentor capacity (to a rookie) than Geno Smith would. I'm totally fine with either of these roles, since there wasn't much of an alternative. Couldn't agree more. At the very least, Fitzpatrick elevates the Jets offense to mediocre status. With the defense we have, that should be enough to keep up competitive. Heck, we were competitive with some very good teams last year (Green Bay, Denver, New England twice, Detroit) with a garbage offense and a defense that isn't as good as the defense that we'll field in 2015 should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Every available metric, eye test, and Geno lolgif out there says you're wrong. Watch the replay of the Giants/Texans from last season. Tell me Fitz passes the eye test. This reminds of the Sanchez situation , everyone is so down on the starter , the Jets could name a flaming pile of dogsh*t the starter and our fans would be high fiving each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I have no problem with you not liking Fitzpatrick, none at all. What is your viable alternative plan? Who are going to be the three QB's on the Jets next year and what is their depth chart ranking? 1. Matt Simms 2. Brett Ratliff 3. Tory Woodbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 The wins and losses, combined with his lack of game winning drives tell a story about a QB that may put up decent stats, but is unable to come through when his team needs him the most based on his lack of physical talent that becomes an albatross when the defense knows what's coming. Same problem I had with Chad Pennington. If we're losing late in the fourth quarter, we've already lost. Difference is we're not investing $64M in Fitzpatrick like we did Chad Pennington. We're paying him $3.3M and giving up 2016 6th/7th rounder. It's quite clear no one is expecting him to be more than a hold-the-fort guy. I fail to see any reason to be complaining about this move. I don't see anyone else out there on the veteran QB market that we could have gotten for such a small price-tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Watch the replay of the Giants/Texans from last season. Tell me Fitz passes the eye test. This reminds of the Sanchez situation , everyone is so down on the starter , the Jets could name a flaming pile of dogsh*t the starter and our fans would be high fiving each other. Cool. Who passes the eye test that we could have gotten? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 1. Matt Simms 2. Brett Ratliff 3. Tory Woodbury No love for Ricky Ray? Boo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Couldn't agree more. At the very least, Fitzpatrick elevates the Jets offense to mediocre status. With the defense we have, that should be enough to keep up competitive. Heck, we were competitive with some very good teams last year (Green Bay, Denver, New England twice, Detroit) with a garbage offense and a defense that isn't as good as the defense that we'll field in 2015 should be. When all we have is a terrible QB, a meh QB can be a dramatic improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Difference is we're not investing $64M in Fitzpatrick like we did Chad Pennington. We're paying him $3.3M and giving up 2016 6th/7th rounder. It's quite clear no one is expecting him to be more than a hold-the-fort guy. I want to win. Ryan Fitzpatrick does not help me win. It is what it is. I know there weren't many options, but I just dislike the move. And I think people are overblowing (Is that a word? It should be.) in a positive direction, just as I'm overblowing (lol) it in a negative direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Cool. Who passes the eye test that we could have gotten? Not the point. The point is you guys are automatically annointing him the starter saying he's worlds better than Geno and that this signing elevates the offense. He's being way overvalued , he's just not that good. If I read that it was an excellent depth signing and could provide vital tutelage to Geno in Chan's system - I'd agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I want to win. Ryan Fitzpatrick does not help me win. It is what it is. I know there weren't many options, but I just dislike the move. And I think people are overblowing (Is that a word? It should be.) in a positive direction, just as I'm overblowing (lol) it in a negative direction. Ah. Finally. JetNation back to its roots. Blowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 If he earns it in camp, why wouldn't Geno fail to get the chance to start? I would give Fitz the nod off the bat, but no one thinks he deserves to have 16 starts handed to him. Many think Smith would have no chance of taking that starting job away, but that's something different. You're weighing team success (or failure) and placing it all on 1 player (even if he played very well). With Buffalo he QB'd a bunch of games with 100-120 passer ratings and they still lost, happened a couple of times in less than 1 season with Tennessee and again last year with Houston. It's weak to put that on him as games he lost. Smith just came off a career season, of sorts. In his career year he got benched and turned the ball over more times than he threw or ran in for TDs. He also completes over 60% of his passes. Fitzpatrick's a mediocre starting QB who can play long enough to get us to our next long-term starter. Or he's an excellent backup who surely offers more in a mentor capacity (to a rookie) than Geno Smith would. I'm totally fine with either of these roles, since there wasn't much of an alternative. I was citing wins and losses to the proclamations that we are now a playoff contender. If you've never been a winning QB, why would you suddenly start at 32 years old? I'm well aware they are a team stat, but his lack of 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives do tell part of the story as to who Fitzpatrick is as a QB. sh*ttier Pennington. The first one was sh*tty enough. Give me a break, Sperm. You know how I felt about the first one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Not the point. The point is you guys are automatically annointing him the starter saying he's worlds better than Geno and that this signing elevates the offense. He's being way overvalued , he's just not that good. Well jesus man, Geno was ranked 31st and 40th in DVOA the last 2 years. What do you want us to do with this information that we FINALLY signed a decent veteran QB, which we should have done at some point in the last 6 years but never did? Sulk? Insert any QB's name that we brought in off the streets and people would be here lamenting. Matt Moore. Ryan Mallett. Hoyer. I happen to think Fitzpatrick is better than those guys because his numbers suggest that is the case. There's no one out there but we got one anyways. Because going into 2015 with Geno and some 4th round draft pick QB was simply not an option. We HAD to get somebody, it might as well be a guy who has ranged somewhere from effective to below average for the last 6 years, and happened to have links to both our GM and OC. So yes, I'll be excited about this move because it's no fun to just complain about everything. The prospect of not seeing Geno Smith under center makes me happy. Just as I was excited when Geno took Sanchez's job. Because when it comes to QB's, when you have a bad one, you still need to keep getting new QB's even if they all pretty much suck. Until we're in a position to get our Andrew Luck that's the deal. I just choose not to cry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I want to win. Ryan Fitzpatrick does not help me win. It is what it is. I know there weren't many options, but I just dislike the move. And I think people are overblowing (Is that a word? It should be.) in a positive direction, just as I'm overblowing (lol) it in a negative direction. Not the point. The point is you guys are automatically annointing him the starter saying he's worlds better than Geno and that this signing elevates the offense. He's being way overvalued , he's just not that good. If I read that it was an excellent depth signing and could provide vital tutelage to Geno in Chan's system - I'd agree 100%. I think he sets the floor. I agree the Jets are much better off if Geno wins the competition, but if he implodes Fitzpatrick will be able to play at an expected level. He is a decent QB, smart with good legs. If Geno implodes he will be ready which is more than I can say for Garrard or Vick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Here's what the Jets starting QBs have been doing during the past 6 seasons 2009- Sanchez 12 TDs 21 Ints 2010- Sanchez 17 TDs 13 Ints 2011- Sanchez 26 TDs 18 Ints 2012- Sanchez 13 TDs 18 Ints 2013- G. Smith 12 TDs 21 Ints 2014- G. Smith 13 TDs 13 Ints total 93 TDs 104 Ints and that my fellow Jets fans frigging SUCKS!!!!!! don't try and say that Fitzpatrick is that bad he is not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Well jesus man, Geno was ranked 31st and 40th the last 2 years. What do you want us to do with this information that we FINALLY signed a decent veteran QB, which we should have done at some point in the last 6 years but never did? Sulk? And if Fitz played the past two years with the Jets where would he have ranked ??? Again I'm happy we have a capable backup, I'm just not getting hyped up that Fitz is going to start and make a difference. As of right now , we still have a major need at the QB position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Here's what the Jets starting QBs have been doing during the past 6 seasons 2009- Sanchez 12 TDs 21 Ints 2010- Sanchez 17 TDs 13 Ints 2011- Sanchez 26 TDs 18 Ints 2012- Sanchez 13 TDs 18 Ints 2013- G. Smith 12 TDs 21 Ints 2014- G. Smith 13 TDs 13 Ints total 93 TDs 104 Ints and that my fellow Jets fans frigging SUCKS!!!!!! don't try and say that Fitzpatrick is that bad he is not Who was the HC ??? Did he even care that we had an offense. ?? And that does make a difference. Put Fitz on those Jet teams and I'd like to see the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I was citing wins and losses to the proclamations that we are now a playoff contender. If you've never been a winning QB, why would you suddenly start at 32 years old? I'm well aware they are a team stat, but his lack of 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives do tell part of the story as to who Fitzpatrick is as a QB. sh*ttier Pennington. The first one was sh*tty enough. Give me a break, Sperm. You know how I felt about the first one! It's simply not the same thing. We didn't draft Fitzpatrick in the first round, and then didn't give him a $63M contract with $23M guaranteed, and did it when the salary cap limit was like $80M. How in the world is this the same thing? He's dirt cheap for an experienced starter, and he's not even guaranteed to be the starter unless every other option on the team is even worse. If he was a free agent and we gave him a $7M/year deal with $10M guaranteed that would be another thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Who was the HC ??? Did he even care that we had an offense. ?? And that does make a difference. Put Fitz on those Jet teams and I'd like to see the numbers. Nope...he liked defense so much that he was telling his quarterbacks to consistently throw in to double and triple coverage just so his defensive guys could get back out on the field and make plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 And if Fitz played the past two years with the Jets where would he have ranked ??? Significantly Better than 40th. Fitz has been the QB for some pretty bad fellow franchises and still outperformed Geno Smith. The truth of the matter is our front office and OC know exactly what Fitzpatrick brings to the table. Gailey and McCagnan, in separate periods, have been directly involved with the guy since 2010. So I'll trust their opinion on this until they give me reasons to distrust them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 In the same time period Ryan Fitzpatrick has thrown for 111 TDs and had 84 Ints--so that's 18 more TDs and 20 LESS interceptions-that is a big improvement over what we've been having to sit through since Favre got hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 You know everybody was saying that Hoyer would have been better but Fitz has gotten to be a better QB as he's matured-he had a 95 QBR last season like 20 pts higher than Hoyer. All I know is he is a better quarterback than Geno Smith who is way too inconsistent for us. One game he can get a perfect passing rating and the next week zero out-I have never seen a QB be able to do that in the space of a month or so. If we can't get Breeze and Foles is already a moot point then get me this guy, he's smart and tough and can throw the ball pretty well. ABGS=Anybody BUT Geno Smith I would never take Hoyer over Fitzpatrick. This guy is a very serviceable vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 In what universe is anyone saying Fitzpatrick is the answer? Do people actually think that those who are happy with this signing think our QB situation is fixed? He's a f*ckin' stopgap. It just happens to be the case that there's no Aaron Rodgers just sitting out there waiting to be signed/drafted at the moment. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I need to get out and enjoy this weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 wait so now we blame our consistently poor QB play on Rex Ryan right? Couldn't have anything to do with the guys we were sending out there being so inexperienced as to need a stoplight red yellow and green chart to play the game and the next guy so bad that in the same season he has a 0.00 QBR one week and then the last game of the season the highest rating a guy can have? Way too inconsistent for this Jets fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 It's simply not the same thing. We didn't draft Fitzpatrick in the first round, and then didn't give him a $63M contract with $23M guaranteed, and did it when the salary cap limit was like $80M. How in the world is this the same thing? He's dirt cheap for an experienced starter, and he's not even guaranteed to be the starter unless every other option on the team is even worse. If he was a free agent and we gave him a $7M/year deal with $10M guaranteed that would be another thing. He's likely to be the starting QB for the New York Jets. That's how it's the same thing. This post assumes that I just hated Pennington for his contract. We were locked in to not winning dick with Pennington for many years. While it's good we aren't held hostage by an albatross of a contract, we still aren't winning dick with Fitzpatrick. I want all the dicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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