I do not envy Maccag picking at 6th

[Ex-Rex]

The diffrence is Gholston was not a QB. I can forgive a GM for trying to find a QB, because you can't win without one. You have to keep taking shots till you find one. As it's been said, this team is niw loaded enough to not have a high pick for a while.

I don't think the majority of posters think MM is going to bust, I know I dont.

Jets should have taken Joe Flacco hands down. Gholston was a luxury on a very stout defense while the Jets QB situation consisted of a broken down Chad Pennington, Kellen Clemens and a reluctant Brett Favre. Not exactly a winning trifecta. Cost Mangini his job and SHOULD have cost Tannenbaum too, but that would come later.

[jetsrebirth]

I disagree with this premise. Either Mac can evaluate talent, or he cant. If he can, the higher the pick, the more choices he has to allow his talent evaluation to shine.

 

Sure even the best evaluators miss, but that is a part of the game. If he misses on the 6th pick, he still has a high round 2, 3, .... pick, and his ability to evaluate talent will come through.

 

If not doesn't matter what he does, and lest get him out faster and get the next guy up.

[Ex-Rex]

and if passes on Next Jerry Rice he can be forgiven?  Don't think so...Why I started thread..he is in a tough spot

Dude your emotions are out of control. First of all, Big Mac is a talent scout who KNOWS personnel. He will make the right pick. You are so extreme in your emotional responses. EVERY GM in the league is in a tough spot and have to make solid picks or their team loses. Doubt Jets fans are going to throw Mac off the top of Met Life if he picks Mariota and he doesn't work out. That's the risk in risk / reward.

[FidelioJet]

Suggesting that McCagnan could take Mariota, watch as Mariota busts, and just take a "my bad" and move on is flat out wrong.  How many years would we have to commit to Mariota as a result?  At least 2-3?  How often do teams draft bust QB's that early in the draft and have the front office go unscathed?

 

If resident draft-niks around here, who aren't paid to do this, are correct about Mariota being a massive bust....and are proven correct, then what would that say if our GM pulls the trigger?  Do we really want to go down this QB road of failure yet again?

 

What are the results of this team over the next 2-3 years without a franchise QB?  Is Geno or Fitzpatrick leading us to any SuperBowls?

 

If you think the kid CAN be, not lock to be, but simply CAN be a legitimate franchise QB you HAVE to take him....

 

It's a risk reward situation - The risk might be high but the potential reward is much higher...

[Sperm Edwards]

Jets should have taken Joe Flacco hands down. Gholston was a luxury on a very stout defense while the Jets QB situation consisted of a broken down Chad Pennington, Kellen Clemens and a reluctant Brett Favre. Not exactly a winning trifecta. Cost Mangini his job and SHOULD have cost Tannenbaum too, but that would come later.

 

You've said this many times. NO ONE had Flacco getting picked at #6.  Even Baltimore, who clearly wanted him badly, passed on him 2 picks after we took Gholston.

 

This "should have" scenario is pure 20/20 hindsight after seeing that the pick turned out instead of busting.

 

It's like saying after trading up to #5 we should have taken Clay Matthews instead of Mark Sanchez (never mind Seattle should have taken him instead of Aaron Curry). Easy to say now, but were you calling for this in 2008? 

 

At the time Flacco was borderline even as a top 20 pick. Even the Ravens, who were in love after working him out, didn't have him rated inside the top 15 (let alone #6 overall).

[Jetsfan80]

What are the results of this team over the next 2-3 years without a franchise QB?  Is Geno or Fitzpatrick leading us to any SuperBowls?

 

If you think the kid CAN be, not lock to be, but simply CAN be a legitimate franchise QB you HAVE to take him....

 

It's a risk reward situation - The risk might be high but the potential reward is much higher...

 

As Shane alluded to earlier, any QB CAN be a franchise QB.  What's to say if we were to say, take Garrett Grayson round 2, that he could NOT be a franchise guy? Why does Mariota HAVE to be the pick if we're not convinced he's a franchise guy?  And by doing so leave a quality WR/pass rusher/etc on the board?

 

If in our rush to grab the next franchise guy we grab the WRONG one, that's far worse than waiting a year.  Roll with Fitzpatrick/Geno/mid-round QB this year, see what next year's crop looks like.

[RutgersJetFan]

Literally the same day that Philly made the Bradford deal, the "Skins loveeee Mariota" rumors started. Either the Titans or Raiders are thirsty to move down and are desperate to keep the Mariota market alive.

Yes. That has to be what it is. Especially if you take into account the quality of journalism that NFL Draft coverage has taken on since the rise of Internet.

[FidelioJet]

As Shane alluded to earlier, any QB CAN be a franchise QB.  What's to say if we were to say, take Garrett Grayson round 2, that he could NOT be a franchise guy? Why does Mariota HAVE to be the pick if we're not convinced he's a franchise guy?  And by doing so leave a quality WR/pass rusher/etc on the board?

 

If in our rush to grab the next franchise guy we grab the WRONG one, that's far worse than waiting a year.  Roll with Fitzpatrick/Geno/mid-round QB this year, see what next year's crop looks like.

 

I don't really disagree - but If you see a guy you THINK can be a franchise you HAVE to take him.  I don't care where it is #1, #6 or the 3rd round...I would also say you don't just draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round because you want to try and get lucky.

 

You take a QB you think can be your franchise for the next 10-15 years.  If Macs looks and Mariotta and say this guy has the potential be that - he should take him and not look back.

 

For the most part...the QB is the ONLY thing that matters - sure you gotta field a team and sure you want to put the best players you can around him but you'll have a decade and a half to do it.  You keep taking QB's until you find one.  

[JetsFanInDenver]

Wont be surprised if by draft day Mariota is a legit second round pick. The only thing QB's have got going for them is the two previous drafts have been anemic at that position.

[Jetsfan80]

I don't really disagree - but If you see a guy you THINK can be a franchise you HAVE to take him.  I don't care where it is #1, #6 or the 3rd round...I would also say you don't just draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round because you want to try and get lucky.

 

You take a QB you think can be your franchise for the next 10-15 years.  If Macs looks and Mariotta and say this guy has the potential be that - he should take him and not look back.

 

For the most part...the QB is the ONLY thing that matters - sure you gotta field a team and sure you want to put the best players you can around him but you'll have a decade and a half to do it.  You keep taking QB's until you find one.  

 

Very simply, it just depends on whether or not the front office thinks Mariota can be a franchise guy.  I don't think he can be based on the evidence at hand. If our front office does, and takes him, I hope to God they see something in him others don't.

[FidelioJet]

Very simply, it just depends on whether or not the front office thinks Mariota can be a franchise guy.  I don't think he can be based on the evidence at hand. If our front office does, and takes him, I hope to God they see something in him others don't.

Agreed...

 

I would think most agree that if the GM likes him he should take him - Ultimately the debate here comes down to - how much do you have to like him?

 

Do you have think he's a lock to be a franchise QB?

 

For simplicity sake let's use percentages (more would have to go into it)

 

1) What percent chance to you give him of being a franchise QB? 80%, 50%, 20% ??

 

2) How much better of a chance do you put on him over whatever guy you think you can get in the 2nd, 3rd etc...

 

- I lean toward the lower end of that spectrum - if you think there's a 30% - 40% percent chance this is the guy for the next 15 years (yes, 60-70% he busts) you should absolutely take him....

[Jetsfan80]

Agreed...

 

I would think most agree that if the GM likes him he should take him - Ultimately the debate here comes down to - how much do you have to like him?

 

Do you have think he's a lock to be a franchise QB?

 

For simplicity sake let's use percentages (more would have to go into it)

 

1) What percent chance to you give him of being a franchise QB? 80%, 50%, 20% ??

 

2) How much better of a chance do you put on him over whatever guy you think you can get in the 2nd, 3rd etc...

 

- I lean toward the lower end of that spectrum - if you think there's a 30% - 40% percent chance this is the guy for the next 15 years (yes, 60-70% he busts) you should absolutely take him....

 

I give Mariota less than 5 % chance of that being the case.  The guy has trouble doing the one thing you have to be able to do well as a QB:  Throw a football.  All the other stuff (mental aptitude, pocket presence, leadership skills, personality) goes out the window when that's your clear top flaw.  You don't burn a top 10 pick on a guy like that.  It's why even when getting blown out by Oregon, Winston was RISING on the board, because he CAN throw a football.  Decently well, actually.  Or at least better than Mariota by a pretty significant margin.

 

Let someone else be the team to take that chance.  If they get extremely lucky, whatever, at least we get a talented pass rusher or WR out of the deal, and continue to look elsewhere for our QB.

[Jetmech]

Best case for the Jets is to trade the pick if they don't like MM to a team that will suck and the Jets get a chance at next years top 3 QB's. I know it's wishful thinking..

[Tinstar]

The Venom spewed in this thread is why it would be a mistake for the New York Jets to draft Marcus Marriota in April. The Kid is a solid QB prospect who needs to be developed by sitting and learning the pro game and his offense. That is something the Fans of this franchise will never allow. Nobody is allowed to develop in this town. Everyone must come to this franchise as a pro bowler in the making or be run out of town on a rail . 

 

How can  a QB be developed in a system when the Coach is run out of town before the QB has learn his system and a new coach throws a different system at him and the cycle is repeated ?

 

 

Do you people realize that the only  thing consistent with this franchise is it's miserable Fans and Losing .  Ownership has change, coaches, General Managers, but the miserable  fans and the same miserable Media who feed off the fans have remain the same. 

 

And so has the losing.

[peekskill68]

The Venom spewed in this thread is why it would be a mistake for the New York Jets to draft Marcus Marriota in April. The Kid is a solid QB prospect who needs to be developed by sitting and learning the pro game and his offense. That is something the Fans of this franchise will never allow. Nobody is allowed to develop in this town. Everyone must come to this franchise as a pro bowler in the making or be run out of town on a rail . 

 

How can  a QB be developed in a system when the Coach is run out of town before the QB has learn his system and a new coach throws a different system at him and the cycle is repeated ?

 

 

 it sounds more like you are making a case for Geno than MM....

[peekskill68]

Asking a question here simply because I don't know - 

 

If you were comparing tape of Mariota to Geno's tape at West Virginia, is there a big difference in football skills?  I get the mental makeup, leadership and Wunderlich type differences, but on pure fundamentals is there a big difference?  

 

If they are similar (which is my guess) what makes anyone think Mariota is going to figure it out at the pro level?  Working hard doesn't always = success.

[Tinstar]

 it sounds more like you are making a case for Geno than MM....

It fits with him also, but it's about Marriota .  Marriota  would be in the same situation as Geno was, only worst.  I think Jet fans forget that Geno Smith was a 2nd round pick because he started his 1st yr.  Marriota would be the 6th pick in the 1st round similar to Mark Sanchez  and would not be allowed to sit and learn for the amount of time needed without being called a "Bust".

 

 

This Fan base has no patience because of the 40+ yrs  it has not won .  Problem is, that's not Sanchez's fault, not Geno Smith fault and it would not be Marriota's fault.  All of those guys needed to sit behind a veteran even if that Veteran was terrible and develop in an offensive scheme before being thrown to the wolves.  I had no hope for Sanchez coming out of Cal, but I see Potential in both Smith and Marriota.  But both needed to sit and learn.

 

Here it is, Geno Smith going into the pivotal  yr in his career, and he has to learn a completely new offense.  When will it end. When will Jet fans stop letting the NY Media  influence what happens to their team by acting on what the media spews.

 

 

 

Marriota can't throw the ball. How did Oregon win so many games with him throwing the football ?

 

Geno Smith doesn't have it.  What is the it that he's supposed to have . You can't teach what was never taught. You can't showcase what you don't know.  These kids come from spread offenses and have no idea what it's like to take a snap from under center, Make a different read every step from center, adjust protections and throw base on anticipation.

 

It must be learned, and taught and It takes time .  If it was as easy as Fans make it out to be, guys like Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck would come into the NFL and execute at a high level from jump. Even those  guys struggle early.  

 

Is it any wonder that 3 of the top QBs in the league sat behind starters or is playing on his 2nd team before turning into what they have become.

[drdetroit]

You've said this many times. NO ONE had Flacco getting picked at #6. Even Baltimore, who clearly wanted him badly, passed on him 2 picks after we took Gholston.

This "should have" scenario is pure 20/20 hindsight after seeing that the pick turned out instead of busting.

It's like saying after trading up to #5 we should have taken Clay Matthews instead of Mark Sanchez (never mind Seattle should have taken him instead of Aaron Curry). Easy to say now, but were you calling for this in 2008?

At the time Flacco was borderline even as a top 20 pick. Even the Ravens, who were in love after working him out, didn't have him rated inside the top 15 (let alone #6 overall).

We also passed on Brady in 2000. Therefore we should draft Mariota.

[Tinstar]

Asking a question here simply because I don't know - 

 

If you were comparing tape of Mariota to Geno's tape at West Virginia, is there a big difference in football skills?  I get the mental makeup, leadership and Wunderlich type differences, but on pure fundamentals is there a big difference?  

 

If they are similar (which is my guess) what makes anyone think Mariota is going to figure it out at the pro level?  Working hard doesn't always = success.

Here's my simple answer. And yes they are very similar with this small difference. Geno Smith is a throw 1st run last QB while Marriota is a throw if it's open but take off and run if it's not type QB.

 

If someone can learn their scheme and execute it at the highest level, it displays the  ability. I know Marriota didn't start his 1st yr in Oregon, but I am not that clear about Geno at WVU.

[T0mShane]

Yes. That has to be what it is. Especially if you take into account the quality of journalism that NFL Draft coverage has taken on since the rise of Internet.

I lay down my foil.

[Beerfish]

The Venom spewed in this thread is why it would be a mistake for the New York Jets to draft Marcus Marriota in April. The Kid is a solid QB prospect who needs to be developed by sitting and learning the pro game and his offense. That is something the Fans of this franchise will never allow. Nobody is allowed to develop in this town. Everyone must come to this franchise as a pro bowler in the making or be run out of town on a rail . 

 

How can  a QB be developed in a system when the Coach is run out of town before the QB has learn his system and a new coach throws a different system at him and the cycle is repeated ?

 

 

Do you people realize that the only  thing consistent with this franchise is it's miserable Fans and Losing .  Ownership has change, coaches, General Managers, but the miserable  fans and the same miserable Media who feed off the fans have remain the same. 

 

And so has the losing.

I would say that even with the lousy front offices we have had they have not made moves to appease the fans, so quite blaming them.  Most front offices could care less what the fans think.  It is not the fans that forced Mark Sanchez to start year one it was Rex Ryan and Tanny.  It was Rex and Tanny that went out of their way to coddle the player and have no viable backup.

 

Often it is a case of the team simply having no one better and the guy forcing his way to the top of the depth chart.

[Savage69]

I would say that even with the lousy front offices we have had they have not made moves to appease the fans, so quite blaming them.  Most front offices could care less what the fans think.  It is not the fans that forced Mark Sanchez to start year one it was Rex Ryan and Tanny.  It was Rex and Tanny that went out of their way to coddle the player and have no viable backup.

 

Often it is a case of the team simply having no one better and the guy forcing his way to the top of the depth chart.

Well they did have that great Mangini QB Kellen Clemens on the team..

[Beerfish]

Well they did have that great Mangini QB Kellen Clemens on the team..

One guy I felt sorry for, when he had his 'shot' we had the likes of Adrian Clarke, Adrian Jones and Anthony Clement on the line and our top WR was Just McCraphands.

 

At least the guy carved out a nice little 2nd/3rd string career for himself.  I always thought Tanny looked like shmuck in hard knocks for cutting his already paltry salary considering what we were paying the true door knobs on that team.

[Sperm Edwards]

We also passed on Brady in 2000. Therefore we should draft Mariota.

 

Why not complain about not taking Brady in round 3 in 2000? About as valid of a complaint.

 

Meanwhile NE had two late 6th round picks and felt Brady wasn't as worthy of the first of them as some scrub no one's ever heard of.

[afosomf]

Why not complain about not taking Brady in round 3 in 2000? About as valid of a complaint.

 

Meanwhile NE had two late 6th round picks and felt Brady wasn't as worthy of the first of them as some scrub no one's ever heard of.

People forget Brady vs tim rattey was basically a coin flip for Pats front office

[Sperm Edwards]

People forget Brady vs tim rattey was basically a coin flip for Pats front office

 

My point was more directed at the impossibly unrealistic suggestion that it was some type of no-brainer for us to have taken Flacco at #6 in 2008. Even the team that liked him best wouldn't touch him with a pick 2 slots lower than us at #6.  And that it has as much validity as complaining about not taking Brady in round 3 or 4 in 2000.

[afosomf]

My point was more directed at the impossibly unrealistic suggestion that it was some type of no-brainer for us to have taken Flacco at #6 in 2008. Even the team that liked him best wouldn't touch him with a pick 2 slots lower than us at #6.  And that it has as much validity as complaining about not taking Brady in round 3 or 4 in 2000.

Ya Flacco got picked where he was suppose to go, wasn't close to a top 10 pick