Milliner to be traded?

[JetsRay]

Suck based on what?

[RutgersJetFan]

It was reported that the Jets are getting inquiries, not shopping him, big difference.

It's a difference. Not big though. More like a slightly larger than average difference. Or medium plus. About the size of Steve Martin's nose in Roxanne, but a little smaller than that. Probably the same as the difference between a Versa and a Corolla, or the size of a cannoli and an eclair.

[patman]

Maybe my memory's hazy, but when was the last time you saw an NFL team do a sign and trade? I mean truly sign a player to a new contract, with the intention of trading him more or less right away. I can't think of a single example.

In the NFL the "sign" of the sign and trade is done in the form of tagging the player, which we've done. If he was so against getting only the 60th pick or worse, he'd have tagged him higher for only $1M more.

NBA teams do this because the old team is allowed to offer a larger contract than any newer team, giving the player incentive to re-sign with the old team instead of just going where he wants, so the old team doesn't lose the player for nothing. There is no such incentive in the NFL

The using of the tag, is what i was talking about, I was just using the #1 instead of the #2 to discourage the pats and the packers.  As a matter of fact I actually think they are banned as it could be used to circumvent the cap. Team A has 50 mill in cap room, Thier player want to play for the pats, at 10 mil per, and the pats don't have the room, Team A could give him a 9mill SB and then trade him to the pats, who would only absorb the remaining 1 mill on the cap. Jets, bills and Fins would scream blue murder.  The pats would be trading picks for cap room.

[TJ]

You're referring to our new GM and HC as these haters, right? That's who's shopping him, not the fans.

Posters here are just expressing what they would do - or what they think Maccagnan will do - now that 3 new high-priced CBs have been brought in.

Milliner haters, lol. Most of those "haters" here wouldn't have signed Cromartie at $8M per in the first place, and instead would have given the young guys an actual chance this year. Sign a one-year guy for a few million and let the best of the 3 start (or a rotation among them).

What I wrote was really a response to posts that were saying that Milliner unequivocally sucked and he should be discarded for a half eaten cheeseburger.  I think the Cro contract was way to high as well.   I wasn't referring to most of the haters, just the couple that post their opinion as though it is fact.  I also believe that the odds of Milliner becoming a great cb  aren't great, but I would not trade him for a 6th round pick.  If that is what happens, I will not agree with the Jets' brain-trust either.

[drdetroit]

Milliner is garbage ... Did any of you actually watch this guy play ? Please don't tell me about the last 4 games of 13 cause that was against some really sub par competition the rest of the season he got torched, showed terrible technique and was benched numerous times. Sure he's young and very well deserves a chance to right himself basically cause he was the 9th pick in the draft but he's not going to surprise anyone. Even if he does start to make some plays what I see is a player who is going to be high risk little reward, meaning he will make some big plays from time to time but will be wildly inconsistent.

Milliner was hurt even in the games he appeared in last season. We had 0 depth thanks to the retard GM so Rex trotted Milliner out on Lambeau with a high ankle sprain single covering Jordy Nelson.

If Milliner can somehow stay healthy he will be a good player. Our corners play a lot of bump and run he never did that in Alabama he had to relearn everything.

[Shadetree]

OK, OK, OK...keep him for depth and keep the faith. For real- Ive been swayed...the smart thing to do is keep him. 

 

But, based on what I did see from him when healthy, I have no faith in him.  Watching him last year was painful. He'll be an ex-Jet in a couple of years, IMO.

 

I really liked McDougal coming out...I pray he's legit and I have a feeling he'll supplant Cro before the end of the season. Even if he's not supplanting Cro, he'll see lots of playing time in Bowles system. How bout someone posts McDougals college film so we can get excited about his ball skills? 

[Sperm Edwards]

It was reported that the Jets are getting inquiries, not shopping him, big difference.

 

No it isn't that big of a difference, actually. If they were getting inquiries and he wasn't being shopped, then news of the inquiries wouldn't be leaked and made public.

 

This is a purposeful leak by the Jets to clue in other teams that Milliner is on the trading block. There is no other reason for this to be leaked. It's the Jets' way of shopping him without overtly telling the player "we've been shopping you" in case they don't get a decent offer.

[Sperm Edwards]

One team offered a 1st rounder for Bradford right? How is that a market? Cleveland is nuts to even explore it but Kelly is even nuttier to not take the 1st.(assuming it was actually true)..

I would've rolled the dice on Bradford for a 5th max..

Lol I've heard for weeks that surely someone would have offered the same contract for Harris and therefore that was the going rate (or, the market) for him. 

 

And it's two teams that we know of that value Bradford with a 1st round pick, not one team: Cleveland and Philadelphia. One doesn't know who else may value Bradford with a 1st round pick but just not that high of a 1st round pick. Someone whose 1st rounder is too high to offer theirs up (e.g. Tennessee, Tampa, maybe even the Jets) but maybe would be interested if they also (or instead) had a lower pick in the 20-ish range.

 

Keep in mind, one needs to remove from the "market" all those teams who aren't in the market for a new starting QB this year in the first place (i.e. Green Bay may think his value is their low 1st round pick but they're hardly in the market for a QB to replace Rodgers this season).

[Sperm Edwards]

The using of the tag, is what i was talking about, I was just using the #1 instead of the #2 to discourage the pats and the packers.  As a matter of fact I actually think they are banned as it could be used to circumvent the cap. Team A has 50 mill in cap room, Thier player want to play for the pats, at 10 mil per, and the pats don't have the room, Team A could give him a 9mill SB and then trade him to the pats, who would only absorb the remaining 1 mill on the cap. Jets, bills and Fins would scream blue murder.  The pats would be trading picks for cap room.

 

Huh?

 

If a player signs the franchise or transition tag contract he can still be traded. 

 

The other scenario you outlined is also perfectly allowed. Redo the player's contract for the year so the $10M compensation is $9M roster bonus. Team A pays the $9M roster bonus and then trades him to team B, who is then only on the hook for $1M. It isn't done because teams aren't looking to eat that much cap space for a draft pick. They'd rather sign a veteran known-quantity (but less expensive) player with that room and just cut the too-expensive veteran. Further, team A wouldn't want to be left holding their dick in their hand should team B back out of the deal.

 

But it is absolutely done where team A pays part and team B pays the balance. We did it when we traded Revis to Tampa: we paid his roster bonus in March and then traded him in April with Tampa on the hook for the rest. (Tampa redid his whole deal on their own, but that was after the trade was completed).

[Sperm Edwards]

What I wrote was really a response to posts that were saying that Milliner unequivocally sucked and he should be discarded for a half eaten cheeseburger.  I think the Cro contract was way to high as well.   I wasn't referring to most of the haters, just the couple that post their opinion as though it is fact.  I also believe that the odds of Milliner becoming a great cb  aren't great, but I would not trade him for a 6th round pick.  If that is what happens, I will not agree with the Jets' brain-trust either.

 

I didn't see anyone post that we should trade him for a half eaten cheeseburger. What I did see were people who doubted he had the trade value of much higher than that. 

 

Did you see anyone post that he should be moved for a 6th round pick? Maybe someone did, but I didn't see it.

 

Make no mistake, the ones who are shopping Milliner are Maccagnan and Bowles not the posters on JetNation. Those are your "haters" of Dee Milliner. They'll keep him over a late-rounder, since they're as likely as not to then draft a depth DB with that pick anyway. But if, after fielding offers for a few weeks, the top offer is a mid-3rd and that's really the best they can get? Yeah, he's getting moved.

[jason423]

I dont seriously think the Jets will trade Milliner this offseason but I do believe they are trying to gauge interest around the NFL in him so they now what teams that they might be able to hit up during the season. Last year Mark Barron went for  4 and  6 in a mid season trade. Thats probably the upside value on Milliner if he can be healthy for half a season and play some role.  

[Sperm Edwards]

I dont seriously think the Jets will trade Milliner this offseason but I do believe they are trying to gauge interest around the NFL in him so they now what teams that they might be able to hit up during the season. Last year Mark Barron went for  4 and  6 in a mid season trade. Thats probably the upside value on Milliner if he can be healthy for half a season and play some role.  

 

Difference I see is that even a so-so (or worse) CB makes twice what a so-so safety makes. There's more demand, even if Barron was taken at #7. On your site, I'm just doing a cursory look at the positional salaries. The #32 paid CB is on around a $5M/year contract. The #32 safety about half that. I just think teams view the position as more crucial. We just paid a player to be our #3/nickel CB over $6M/year. 

 

If some team thinks they still see something in Milliner I expect the bidding to be heavier. While Milliner has the injury from last year (and some from prior) with both bad and good results, despite the claims it was all bad, I don't know if that means Milliner carries the same or less weight than a safety who did play and sucked (even before any hammy problems).

 

I think they're shopping him but aren't trying to be overt in the endeavor just in case they get only crappy offers they can say they wanted to keep him all along.

[JetsRay]

No it isn't that big of a difference, actually. If they were getting inquiries and he wasn't being shopped, then news of the inquiries wouldn't be leaked and made public.

 

This is a purposeful leak by the Jets to clue in other teams that Milliner is on the trading block. There is no other reason for this to be leaked. It's the Jets' way of shopping him without overtly telling the player "we've been shopping you" in case they don't get a decent offer.

 

And you know this was a purposeful leak by the Jets how?

[Sperm Edwards]

And you know this was a purposeful leak by the Jets how?

 

There are no accidental leaks about private trade offers, and Maccagnan's other comments that (effectively said) we're not just going to give him away. Would he say that about Sheldon Richardson? Or would he just say, "You're nuts for even asking the question. There's no way we're letting him go and we're not entertaining any offers."

 

Sometimes things just are what they seem. If the Jets can get a good pick from a player they intend to use as a 6th DB they'll take it. If they get only a crappy offer they'd rather just hang onto him. But might as well leak it before the draft just in case some potentially-interested GM didn't realize he's available.

[Smashmouth]

I think if there is any CB on the Jets that might do better at the Safety position its Dee Milliner simply because he's a terrible Cover Corner and its an entirely different skill set and technique that does not require you to stay glued to a WR basically you react and I think Milliner has the speed to play well in open spaces

[TJ]

I didn't see anyone post that we should trade him for a half eaten cheeseburger. What I did see were people who doubted he had the trade value of much higher than that. 

 

Did you see anyone post that he should be moved for a 6th round pick? Maybe someone did, but I didn't see it.

 

Make no mistake, the ones who are shopping Milliner are Maccagnan and Bowles not the posters on JetNation. Those are your "haters" of Dee Milliner. They'll keep him over a late-rounder, since they're as likely as not to then draft a depth DB with that pick anyway. But if, after fielding offers for a few weeks, the top offer is a mid-3rd and that's really the best they can get? Yeah, he's getting moved.

I guess you take everything that is posted literally.  LOL

[RoadFan]

I would be happy with a 4th... but even take a 5th.

6th or worse...pass.

[Sperm Edwards]

I guess you take everything that is posted literally.  LOL

 

I didn't take it literally. Change my first sentence from "a half eaten cheeseburger" to "a lower round pick" and the rest of my post would still be unchanged. 

[SouthernJet]

 

 

 

It obviously makes sense considering how crowded we are at CB.

not to me.. Bowles systems needs 6-8 Def Backs on rotation with at least 4-6 who are pretty good. Millner is maybe in bets place ever now, not needed as a #1 or even #2 on Jets, he can relax, learn and maybe flourish

[TJ]

not to me.. Bowles systems needs 6-8 Def Backs on rotation with at least 4-6 who are pretty good. Millner is maybe in bets place ever now, not needed as a #1 or even #2 on Jets, he can relax, learn and maybe flourish

Agreed!

[DaBallhawk]

not to me.. Bowles systems needs 6-8 Def Backs on rotation with at least 4-6 who are pretty good. Millner is maybe in bets place ever now, not needed as a #1 or even #2 on Jets, he can relax, learn and maybe flourish

 

You honestly think Dee cares about sitting back and learning? He's a top pick who played at an All Pro level before he got hurt. There's no need for him to sit back and learn, he can play. What he needs to do is stay healthy for once. Nothing gets fixed by not playing him. Sooner or later he'll have to go out there and prove he's not made of glass. But I wouldn't mind having him sit back for a year and then take over for Cro next year as our #2 corner, I'd agree there. However if there's a good offer on the table it'd make sense to trade him now because we don't lose anything really. At least not this year. I don't expect him to contribute much, if at all. We're set at corner with Revis, Cro, Skrine, Marcus Williams and maybe even Walls. Normally I'd say he's awful but as a 5th corner I'll take him unless we need more cap space.

 

EDIT:

Forgot Dex. Yeah, I think we're set at corner. With or without Dee. We'll be fine either way. If we can get a 2nd for him, do it. If not, let him stick around.

[SouthernJet]

You honestly think Dee cares about sitting back and learning? He's a top pick who played at an All Pro level before he got hurt. There's no need for him to sit back and learn, he can play. What he needs to do is stay healthy for once. Nothing gets fixed by not playing him. Sooner or later he'll have to go out there and prove he's not made of glass. But I wouldn't mind having him sit back for a year and then take over for Cro next year as our #2 corner, I'd agree there. However if there's a good offer on the table it'd make sense to trade him now because we don't lose anything really. At least not this year. I don't expect him to contribute much, if at all. We're set at corner with Revis, Cro, Skrine, Marcus Williams and maybe even Walls. Normally I'd say he's awful but as a 5th corner I'll take him unless we need more cap space.

 

EDIT:

Forgot Dex. Yeah, I think we're set at corner. With or without Dee. We'll be fine either way. If we can get a 2nd for him, do it. If not, let him stick around.

who the hell said he wont play, he just wont be #1 or #2 CB w/Revis/Cro. Bowles system has 4-6 CBs on field a lot. Dee will play a hell of a lot, and learn form great CBs and not have pressure of being 'the man' for next 2 years

[DaBallhawk]

who the hell said he wont play, he just wont be #1 or #2 CB w/Revis/Cro. Bowles system has 4-6 CBs on field a lot. Dee will play a hell of a lot, and learn form great CBs and not have pressure of being 'the man' for next 2 years

 

6 cornerbacks on the field? You'd have to be pretty creative to pull that off. Do you plan on lining them up at DT and linebacker? Not sure that makes a lot of sense.

 

And no, he's not gonna play a lot. He's got Revis, Cro and Skrine ahead of him. Skrine is already penciled in as our nickelback. Those 3 are locks. And after that you have Marcus Williams who has played very well, and Dex is coming back. At this point we don't even know if Dee will be able to train come camp, he probably won't play in the preseason either. At best he'll start out slow and maybe crack the top 4-5 rotation by the 2nd half of the season. That's just pure speculation, but anybody that thinks from all the reports we've read so far on him and the progress he's made (or lack thereof) that he will be anything more than the #4 corner in week 1 is just kidding themselves.

[SouthernJet]

6 cornerbacks on the field? You'd have to be pretty creative to pull that off. Do you plan on lining them up at DT and linebacker? Not sure that makes a lot of sense.

 

And no, he's not gonna play a lot. He's got Revis, Cro and Skrine ahead of him. Skrine is already penciled in as our nickelback. Those 3 are locks. And after that you have Marcus Williams who has played very well, and Dex is coming back. At this point we don't even know if Dee will be able to train come camp, he probably won't play in the preseason either. At best he'll start out slow and maybe crack the top 4-5 rotation by the 2nd half of the season. That's just pure speculation, but anybody that thinks from all the reports we've read so far on him and the progress he's made (or lack thereof) that he will be anything more than the #4 corner in week 1 is just kidding themselves.

You havent been paying attention to our coaches MO.. tsk tsk

 

Bowles’ reliance on defensive backs turned the Cardinals defense into the most aggressive unit in the league the past two seasons. Bowles used six defensive backs about half the time (555 snaps) last season, according to ESPN Stats & Information. The Cardinals had six or more defensive backs on the field for an eye-opening 619 snaps. Bowles had six or more defensive backs on the field more than twice as often as four or fewer.

Translation: Milliner will have a chance to make a meaningful contribution in this scheme if he can stay healthy.

“I will say this with cornerbacks: you can never have enough good ones,” Maccagnan said at the combine. “I’d be very happy if we had a surplus at that position.”

Milliner, Darrin Walls, Marcus Williams and Dex McDougle will likely have chances to grab the No. 4 cornerback job. Although Milliner won’t get preferential treatment from a new front office or coaching staff, he clearly has the most potential among the group.

[JetBlue]

You havent been paying attention to our coaches MO.. tsk tsk

 

Bowles’ reliance on defensive backs turned the Cardinals defense into the most aggressive unit in the league the past two seasons. Bowles used six defensive backs about half the time (555 snaps) last season, according to ESPN Stats & Information. The Cardinals had six or more defensive backs on the field for an eye-opening 619 snaps. Bowles had six or more defensive backs on the field more than twice as often as four or fewer.

Translation: Milliner will have a chance to make a meaningful contribution in this scheme if he can stay healthy.

“I will say this with cornerbacks: you can never have enough good ones,” Maccagnan said at the combine. “I’d be very happy if we had a surplus at that position.”

Milliner, Darrin Walls, Marcus Williams and Dex McDougle will likely have chances to grab the No. 4 cornerback job. Although Milliner won’t get preferential treatment from a new front office or coaching staff, he clearly has the most potential among the group.

 

Milliner is coming off of one of the worst injuries a cornerback can suffer.  We don't even know if he will be ready to play when the season starts so all of this is very pre-mature. 

[SouthernJet]

Milliner is coming off of one of the worst injuries a cornerback can suffer.  We don't even know if he will be ready to play when the season starts so all of this is very pre-mature. 

for sure.. but Jets will keep him due to Bowles system and future consideration

 

worst case PUP him

[Shadetree]

6 cornerbacks on the field? You'd have to be pretty creative to pull that off. Do you plan on lining them up at DT and linebacker? Not sure that makes a lot of sense.

And no, he's not gonna play a lot. He's got Revis, Cro and Skrine ahead of him. Skrine is already penciled in as our nickelback. Those 3 are locks. And after that you have Marcus Williams who has played very well, and Dex is coming back. At this point we don't even know if Dee will be able to train come camp, he probably won't play in the preseason either. At best he'll start out slow and maybe crack the top 4-5 rotation by the 2nd half of the season. That's just pure speculation, but anybody that thinks from all the reports we've read so far on him and the progress he's made (or lack thereof) that he will be anything more than the #4 corner in week 1 is just kidding themselves.

I'll bet mcdougal overtakes milliner by week 4

[SouthernJet]

I'll bet mcdougal overtakes milliner by week 4

agree

[JetBlue]

for sure.. but Jets will keep him due to Bowles system and future consideration

 

worst case PUP him

Agreed thats why the whole idea of trading him makes no sense.  Even if they did, what would the get back; a 7th rounder? Sorry no thanks...

[JetBlue]

agree

I like Mac alot and he looked real good before his injury. Playing with Revis and being coached by Bowles will help this kid become one of the best corners in the league in a year or two, barring any more injuries. 

[DaBallhawk]

You havent been paying attention to our coaches MO.. tsk tsk

 

Bowles’ reliance on defensive backs turned the Cardinals defense into the most aggressive unit in the league the past two seasons. Bowles used six defensive backs about half the time (555 snaps) last season, according to ESPN Stats & Information. The Cardinals had six or more defensive backs on the field for an eye-opening 619 snaps. Bowles had six or more defensive backs on the field more than twice as often as four or fewer.

Translation: Milliner will have a chance to make a meaningful contribution in this scheme if he can stay healthy.

“I will say this with cornerbacks: you can never have enough good ones,” Maccagnan said at the combine. “I’d be very happy if we had a surplus at that position.”

Milliner, Darrin Walls, Marcus Williams and Dex McDougle will likely have chances to grab the No. 4 cornerback job. Although Milliner won’t get preferential treatment from a new front office or coaching staff, he clearly has the most potential among the group.

 

Read again, it's defensive backs. Not cornerbacks. It's 6 defensive backs, not 6 cornerbacks. 3 corners (in our case Revis, Cro, Skrine) and 3 safeties (Pryor, Gilchrist, Allen), one of the safeties plays a hybrid S/CB/LB role. That's how it usually looks like. You don't lined up 6 cornerbacks on the field. 4 is already a lot and usually doesn't happen unless you really try to defend the pass and the offense lines up 4+ receivers.

[dbatesman]

I think we should listen to this Ballhawk fella, guys, seems like he really knows the game.

[JustInFudge]

Remember when Rex stifled Peyton Manning in the playoffs by lining Drew Coleman up at DE?

[SouthernJet]

Read again, it's defensive backs. Not cornerbacks. It's 6 defensive backs, not 6 cornerbacks. 3 corners (in our case Revis, Cro, Skrine) and 3 safeties (Pryor, Gilchrist, Allen), one of the safeties plays a hybrid S/CB/LB role. That's how it usually looks like. You don't lined up 6 cornerbacks on the field. 4 is already a lot and usually doesn't happen unless you really try to defend the pass and the offense lines up 4+ receivers.

smh, you're one of those guys eh, never wrong? In todays NFL CB/safetys in many cases, see Gilchrist are interchangable.

 

OK, I got u figured out,,, carry on. Bleed Green.

[prime21]

Read again, it's defensive backs. Not cornerbacks. It's 6 defensive backs, not 6 cornerbacks. 3 corners (in our case Revis, Cro, Skrine) and 3 safeties (Pryor, Gilchrist, Allen), one of the safeties plays a hybrid S/CB/LB role. That's how it usually looks like. You don't lined up 6 cornerbacks on the field. 4 is already a lot and usually doesn't happen unless you really try to defend the pass and the offense lines up 4+ receivers.