Odell Beckham Jr. Vs. Amari Cooper

[chirorob]

White looks more like OBJ to me. Cooper is more like Marvin Harrison.

DO you know how amazingly thrilled I'd be to have a Marvin Harrison type?

 

With our quarterbacks, he might get, 7, 800 yards  a season!!

[HessStation]

The last one is pretty weak actually

 

Yep, that's Lee who was probably the most injuried (hamstring and ankle), on the worst team with the worst QB. 

[chirorob]

 

None of these numbers are bad for a rookie WR. Some are GREAT, some are with injuries, some are due to system/scheme/surrounding talent/QB...

 

65-982-06  in 16 games played

91-1305-12 in 12 games played

68-1051-12 in 15 games played

73-1008-09 in 16 games played

53-550-03  in 10 games played

37-422-01  in 12 games played

 

even the bottom one, over 16 games is 50 catches for 600 yards.   Not awful.   And if Cooper comes here, he will be the #3 option on a team with poor to average QB play.   50 for 600 would be really good.

[cant wait]

Yep, that's Lee who was probably the most injuried (hamstring and ankle), on the worst team with the worst QB.

Allen hurns was a rookie on Jacksonville too and still had 600+ yards and 6 TD

[JetBlue]

Cooper is a better prospect and it's not even close. Beckham didn't have the production. Having worked out in hindsight isn't the same as being a sure thing going in.

lol, not close are on DRUGS??!!!  He is not even the best prospect in this draft, lol. OBJ went 12th in the deepest wide receiver draft in a decade, not in the 6th round or anything.  If Cooper has HALF the season OBJ has he will be happy.   It is not just about college production, it is also projecting onto the next level and that is why the majority of experts have White ahead of Cooper. 

[JetBlue]

Also a guy like Beckham shows you how much an elite Wr can help a QB.  Eli gets credit for a nice 40 yard td bomb on a play he over throws the ball badly, the WR was interfered with and the guy makes a circus catch.  Geno smith throws the same pass and he is a bum for over throwing his receiver.  I'd gladly take a guy like3 White at #6.

Exactly, some of those catches he was completely covered and STILL made incredible catches.   A guy like White will do the same and I have yet to see Cooper take the ball away from a defender like that. Maybe he can but I have not seen him consistently do that like White and OBJ. 

[JetBlue]

If they both came out last year or this year, Cooper would be picked over Beckham because had better stats and grades better in most categories.  If Beckham fell to us in the 1st round last year then  people would not know who this kid is besides us. Geno would not get him the ball and he wouldn't have  all those stats he complied with the Giants.  Heck, getting selected by the Giants was like hitting the lotto for him.  Eli loves to throw them up there whether they are covered or not which is why he throws so many into's.  Beckham's crazy skill for grabbing jump balls is perfect for Eli.   That is not all Beckham does but it makes for highlight films.  Cooper could have been good with Eli but wouldn't match OBJ's numbers.

 

Wasn't Sammy Watkins the next big thing?  He could be but not with out the QB he needs..

Sorry but I can't agree with this.  Please go back and watch the videos of some of Elis passes; Beckham had to make some incredible catches.  Are you saying that Geno couldn't place the ball in the same way?   I mean didn't Decker have almost 1,000 yards?  Why would you assume that Beckham couldn't go up and get Genos passes.   I don't care what QB was throwing him the ball, Beckham would excelled. 

[HessStation]

Allen hurns was a rookie on Jacksonville too and still had 600+ yards and 6 TD

 

Mostly because Lee (and Robinson) were playing (or not playing) injured almost the entire season. 

 

 

Watkins: 65-982-06  in 16 games played

Beckham: 91-1305-12 in 12 games played

Evans: 68-1051-12 in 15 games played

Benjamin: 73-1008-09 in 16 games played

Cooks: 53-550-03  in 10 games played

Lee: 37-422-01  in 12 games played

 

 

Interestingly, look how things smoothed out towards the end of the season. As the rookie class took the league by storm, teams started to hone in a little more on them. Conversely this is really were ODB breaks out as he gets healthier. But everyone else is pretty much, solidly on par, including Lee who is finally a little healthier while, I'm sure, the other guys are feeling the affects of the longer more brutal NFL season. 

Last 5 games

Watkins: 17-298-0

Beckham: 50-596-7

Evans: 19-210-4

Benjamin: 21-240-1

Cooks: 21-295-2

Lee: 21-229-1

[JetBlue]

Knowing what we know now, that is kinda silly.  Cooper will not match Beckham's production.  Beckham had the best rookie WR season ever, basically, and he had it in 12 games.

I mean seriously; did he even think before he typed that?  How could it "not even be close" lol.

[JetBlue]

Coop is better than Sammie and he was a better college player than Ody. 

Coop has yet to play an NFL game but he is better than Sammie Watkins... okay.  He MAY be better but to say that now, I think is a little premature. 

[JetBlue]

Cooper is going to be a very good receiver in his own right.  His ability to catch and run is special.  Very little wasted motion in his movements.  Great natural hands.  He's used to being the workhorse catching 10-12 balls a game.

No doubt about that but OBJ was on another level last year and that is saying alot considering the other rookie receivers that excelled.  In fact he was so good, he wasn't just compared to best rookies but the best receivers period.  If I was starting a team it would be OBJ and Dez Bryant. 

[cant wait]

Mostly because Lee (and Robinson) were playing (or not playing) injured almost the entire season.

Watkins: 65-982-06 in 16 games played

Beckham: 91-1305-12 in 12 games played

Evans: 68-1051-12 in 15 games played

Benjamin: 73-1008-09 in 16 games played

Cooks: 53-550-03 in 10 games played

Lee: 37-422-01 in 12 games played

Interestingly, look how things smoothed out towards the end of the season. As the rookie class took the league by storm, teams started to hone in a little more on them. Conversely this is really were ODB breaks out as he gets healthier. But everyone else is pretty much, solidly on par, including Lee who is finally a little healthier while, I'm sure, the other guys are feeling the affects of the longer more brutal NFL season.

Last 5 games

Watkins: 17-298-0

Beckham: 50-596-7

Evans: 19-210-4

Benjamin: 21-240-1

Cooks: 21-295-2

Lee: 21-229-1

That is better but also most of those games were against teams in the bottom 3rd in pass defense, one would expect production to increase

[HessStation]

That is better but also most of those games were against teams in the bottom 3rd in pass defense, one would expect production to increase

 

Just data, not saying it's everything. Tons a variables. That's kind of my point with Lee. He's quick to get sh*t on out of the top tier prospects from last year, but if you look at it objectively there's a lot of reasons. That said, the numbers are what they are and at some point, that's how you're career is going to be judged. But one year is way too soon to proclaim anything yet either way imo. 

[Beerfish]

I mean seriously; did he even think before he typed that?  How could it "not even be close" lol.

Because Cooper coming out of college has had unbelievable production over a number of years to go along with good work out numbers and such.  You guys are seriously being influenced by what you have seen from Beckham after the fact.

[#27TheDominator]

I mean seriously; did he even think before he typed that?  How could it "not even be close" lol.

 

 

Coop has yet to play an NFL game but he is better than Sammie Watkins... okay.  He MAY be better but to say that now, I think is a little premature. 

 

 

Because Cooper coming out of college has had unbelievable production over a number of years to go along with good work out numbers and such.  You guys are seriously being influenced by what you have seen from Beckham after the fact.

 

Apparently Watkins too.

[JetBlue]

I doubt Beckham is going to sustain the same type of success in his sophomore year. That said, I don't really understand the point of this thread at all. ODJ had probably the greatest rookie season a WR could ever have this side of Randy Moss. Why are we setting the bar this high again, for not just Cooper, but any rookie??? 

 

Also somebody sort of brought this up already, ODB comes nowhere near that production in the Jets system last year, as with most other teams. 

 

Cooper's a great prospect and is most likely going to be an excellent pro. I'll take that at 6.

How do you know that?  He would have a had a great rookie season regardless; Eli looked like warmed over sh*t until that kid got healthy.  I am just saying it would have been great to have been in position to draft him last year.  If we take Cooper I will be okay with it.  Btw some mocks I have seen recently actually have us taking White and Cooper landing with the Giants.  Can you imagine that, lol?  I certainly don't see that happening but if it did, wow! 

[JetBlue]

DO you know how amazingly thrilled I'd be to have a Marvin Harrison type?

 

With our quarterbacks, he might get, 7, 800 yards  a season!!

Marvin Harrison was a very good receiver but don't forget who was throwing him the ball.   The ball was almost always were it was supposed to be and Harrison, being the great route runner that he was would be open for most of them.  When you have a quarterback who isn't as accurate it is good to have a receiver who can make the difficult catch on balls not thrown quite as accurately.   That is one thing I am looking forward to with Marshall and one of the things OBJ brought to the Giants last year. 

[chirorob]

Marvin Harrison was a very good receiver but don't forget who was throwing him the ball.   The ball was almost always were it was supposed to be and Harrison, being the great route runner that he was would be open for most of them.  When you have a quarterback who isn't as accurate it is good to have a receiver who can make the difficult catch on balls not thrown quite as accurately.   That is one thing I am looking forward to with Marshall and one of the things OBJ brought to the Giants last year. 

Marvin was more than a very good WR.  Yes, he had Peyton throwing him, but he set the NFL record for receptions in a season, had 4 straight 100 reception seasons, 8 straight years at 80+ receptions, 1500 yards three times.   Even with an average QB, he still puts up very good #'s.  

 

If we draft a WR, and he has 80% of the career that Marvin has, I'd be thrilled.

 

Even Eli last year still threw for 4400 yards.  For a WR to be great, he needs a QB to throw to him a lot. 

[afosomf]

Marvin Harrison was a very good receiver but don't forget who was throwing him the ball.   The ball was almost always were it was supposed to be and Harrison, being the great route runner that he was would be open for most of them.  When you have a quarterback who isn't as accurate it is good to have a receiver who can make the difficult catch on balls not thrown quite as accurately.   That is one thing I am looking forward to with Marshall and one of the things OBJ brought to the Giants last year. 

I guess Rice was not the GOAT cause he had Montana and Young throwing him the ball. Christ dude do you read what you write mon

[JetBlue]

I guess Rice was not the GOAT cause he had Montana and Young throwing him the ball. Christ dude do you read what you write mon

I guess you misinterpeted what I said but thats okay.  Reading is fundamental; reading COMPREHENSION is something else. 

 

Here it is again: 

 

Marvin Harrison was a very good receiver but don't forget who was throwing him the ball.   The ball was almost always were it was supposed to be and Harrison, being the great route runner that he was would be open for most of them.  When you have a quarterback who isn't as accurate it is good to have a receiver who can make the difficult catch on balls not thrown quite as accurately.   That is one thing I am looking forward to with Marshall and one of the things OBJ brought to the Giants last year.

[#27TheDominator]

What?  No 50-50 spillover in here?

[JetBlue]

Marvin was more than a very good WR.  Yes, he had Peyton throwing him, but he set the NFL record for receptions in a season, had 4 straight 100 reception seasons, 8 straight years at 80+ receptions, 1500 yards three times.   Even with an average QB, he still puts up very good #'s.  

 

If we draft a WR, and he has 80% of the career that Marvin has, I'd be thrilled.

 

Even Eli last year still threw for 4400 yards.  For a WR to be great, he needs a QB to throw to him a lot. 

I am not knocking Harrison but when is the last time you saw him make a really difficult catch in traffic or even some of the catches we saw OBJ made last year?  Not saying he wasn't capable but HE DIDN'T HAVE TO because more often than not, the ball was perfectly placed by Peyton Manning.   The is the point; we don't have Peyton or even Eli throwing the ball so having a receiver who can make those difficult types of catches is a plus.  That is the entire point; okay?  

[JetBlue]

What?  No 50-50 spillover in here?

I see what you did here...

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

I mean seriously; did he even think before he typed that?  How could it "not even be close" lol.

 

Beckham the prospect hadn't had a rookie season yet. The amount of difficulty you guys are having with this is startling.

[JetBlue]

Beckham the prospect hadn't had a rookie season yet. The amount of difficulty you guys are having with this is startling.

You said and I quote "IT WASN'T EVEN CLOSE" regarding Beckham and Cooper as prospects.   Beckham was the 12th pick in the draft.  Cooper is PROJECTED to go top 10.  How is it not even close?  The is the point; I hope I cleared that up for you. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

The guy said and I quote "IT WASN'T EVEN CLOSE" regarding Beckham and Cooper as prospects.   Beckham was the 12th pick in the draft.  Cooper is PROJECTED to go top 10.  How is it not even close?  The is the point; I hope I cleared that up for you. 

 

This just keeps getting better.

[#27TheDominator]

Beckham the prospect hadn't had a rookie season yet. The amount of difficulty you guys are having with this is startling.

 

You startle easily.  It's not like this is your first day here.

 

The guy said and I quote "IT WASN'T EVEN CLOSE" regarding Beckham and Cooper as prospects.   Beckham was the 12th pick in the draft.  Cooper is PROJECTED to go top 10.  How is it not even close?  The is the point; I hope I cleared that up for you. 

 

^the guy

[JetBlue]

You startle easily.  It's not like this is your first day here.

 

 

^the guy

Hey man what the hell is that drunk chick doing in your pic? 

[prime21]

Sorry but I can't agree with this. Please go back and watch the videos of some of Elis passes; Beckham had to make some incredible catches. Are you saying that Geno couldn't place the ball in the same way? I mean didn't Decker have almost 1,000 yards? Why would you assume that Beckham couldn't go up and get Genos passes. I don't care what QB was throwing him the ball, Beckham would excelled.

Geno cannot compare to Eli therefore he wouldn't throw the ball the same way. The offenses are not comparable either as the Giants want to throw and we want to run. Eli is a confident QB...too confident, and knows how to read a defense way better. Eli throws balls without regard to a turnover. He assumes his WR will catch it even if it's a bad throw and Beckham can go and get those. Geno panics in the pocket and looks off WR's very quickly. If Beckham played with us last year and missed the first few games he would probably get 59 catches with us.

[JetBlue]

White looks more like OBJ to me. Cooper is more like Marvin Harrison.

OBJ at 5'10' shorter; has greater acceleration and runs better routes but I can see that comparison in the way he attacks the ball.  Cooper/Harrison is spot on.  Coop at 210llbs is like a slightly bigger version.

[win4ever]

I like this comparison, and I think the biggest reason for my liking of Cooper this year is because of Beckham.  What sets them apart, is that they both are excellent at breaking a route without losing momentum, and in one on one coverage, that is extremely important.  If you watch OBJ in college, and Cooper in college, they are extremely similar at the top of a route with their craftiness.  Both of them use head fakes, false steps, hand fakes, etc to throw the defender off from where they are going, and are extremely effective at it.  Usually, when most WRs try these tactics, they slow down considerably, allowing the defender to make a move without losing separation.  This ability forces defenders to gamble more often than not, because otherwise it's an easy pass, which is why both of these guys excel at double moves.  

 

What makes Beckham great is that he has excellent speed, but also has a very high catch radius because of his vertical and his hands are extremely good.  His catch radius helps out the QB like he's a 6'3 WR, while his speed is great, and his hands are very good.  So he's the prototypical WR that you want, but his size is misleading.  I don't think Eli had much to do with him being good, because someone like him is just too hard to defend on a one on one basis.   I think Cooper is the same way, but doesn't have nearly the same catch radius.  But his route running, ability to get out from his breaks, and speed are very similar.  

 

I think Cooper is a mix of OBJ and Watkins.  I think OBJ is the best of the three because his hands and catch radius stands out from the other two, but otherwise, those three are extremely similar.  I rank them OBJ, Cooper, Watkins.  

[JetBlue]

I like this comparison, and I think the biggest reason for my liking of Cooper this year is because of Beckham.  What sets them apart, is that they both are excellent at breaking a route without losing momentum, and in one on one coverage, that is extremely important.  If you watch OBJ in college, and Cooper in college, they are extremely similar at the top of a route with their craftiness.  Both of them use head fakes, false steps, hand fakes, etc to throw the defender off from where they are going, and are extremely effective at it.  Usually, when most WRs try these tactics, they slow down considerably, allowing the defender to make a move without losing separation.  This ability forces defenders to gamble more often than not, because otherwise it's an easy pass, which is why both of these guys excel at double moves.  

 

What makes Beckham great is that he has excellent speed, but also has a very high catch radius because of his vertical and his hands are extremely good.  His catch radius helps out the QB like he's a 6'3 WR, while his speed is great, and his hands are very good.  So he's the prototypical WR that you want, but his size is misleading.  I don't think Eli had much to do with him being good, because someone like him is just too hard to defend on a one on one basis.   I think Cooper is the same way, but doesn't have nearly the same catch radius.  But his route running, ability to get out from his breaks, and speed are very similar.  

 

I think Cooper is a mix of OBJ and Watkins.  I think OBJ is the best of the three because his hands and catch radius stands out from the other two, but otherwise, those three are extremely similar.  I rank them OBJ, Cooper, Watkins.  

Okay nice analysis.  Good post. 

[JetBlue]

Geno cannot compare to Eli therefore he would throw the ball the same way. The offenses are not compatible either as the Giants want to throw and we want to run. Eli is a confident QB...too confident, and knows how to read a defense way better. Eli throws balls without regard to a turnover. He assumes his WR will catch it even if it's a bad throw and Beckham can go and get those. Geno panics in the pocket and looks off WR's very quickly. If Beckham played with us last year and missed the first few games he would probably get 59 catches with us.

Geno is a second year qb who is a work in progress but he still has made some big throws and has a big arm.  You are just making stuff up now to support your argument.  When your receiver corp has sucked as much as ours, you would be a little gun-shy too.  When is the last time you saw a Jet receiver go up and take a ball away from a defender or make a real difficult catch in traffic?

 

Watch what a difference Marshall makes with Geno and you see what I am talking about.  You might be right about the 59 catches, who knows; the bottom line is even on the Jets he would have been the best rookie receiver we have had since Keyshawn maybe even Toon. 

[prime21]

Geno is a second year qb who is a work in progress but he still has made some big throws and has a big arm. You are just making stuff up now to support your argument. When your receiver corp has sucked as much as ours, you would be a little gun-shy too. When is the last time you saw a Jet receiver go up and take a ball away from a defender or make a real difficult catch in traffic?

Watch what a difference Marshall makes with Geno and you see what I am talking about. You might be right about the 59 catches, who knows; the bottom line is even on the Jets he would have been the best rookie receiver we have had since Keyshawn maybe even Toon.

I'm not arguing about Geno's limited experience and lack of playmakers but if you are going to compare him to a 2x SuperBowl winner who is a gun slinger then it's easy for me to say that Beckham would have not even come close to his stats last year if he was with us. I'm not making anything up. Eli wants to throw and will do so. He plays without fear. Geno is still learning and is in a run first system. Perhaps Geno may have had better stats with Beckham but no way Beckham comes close to what he did with Eli.

[JetBlue]

I'm not arguing about Geno's limited experience and lack of playmakers but if you are going to compare him to a 2x SuperBowl winner who is a gun slinger then it's easy for me to say that Beckham would have not even come close to his stats last year if he was with us. I'm not making anything up. Eli wants to throw and will do so. He plays without fear. Geno is still learning and is in a run first system. Perhaps Geno may have had better stats with Beckham but no way Beckham comes close to what he did with Eli.

I understand and I am not saying he will have the same stats but he would do pretty damn well. I guess we will never know so we can just agree to disagree.