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Mariota is a bust


Jetsmanjb
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Tape doesn't lie.

 

agreed that it's a highlight film but those weren't always wide open receivers and no question he very smooth with his progressions...

 

btw...why do all these highlight films have to have that loud hip-hop music in the background?  So off putting...

yep I hate that crap music :) but yeah most of whats being said about Mariota is crap. He is very smooth going through his progressions and he knows when to lay the ball in there and when to put some zip on it. When he takes off running he actually knows how to slide to avoid taking the big hits as not to get Injured

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You based your entire opinion off of a video entitled "Supreme Marcus Mariota Highlights."

Sorry Tom I just didn't want to Bombard you with too much information. :)  I stated I hate highlight videos but that was something that poped up quick so I posted it. It shows him going through his progressions flawlessly ...It shows him keeping his head downfield and it shows he knows how to play the position but most of all it discredits most of what you posted in this thread .

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The Ravens did.

Following the advice outlined above would have led to the Jets drafting Geno over Richardson. It led to us drafting Sanchez. It led to others drafting Manuel Ponder Locker Weeden Manziel Russell Gabbert...

You can take a QB every year until finding one as a strategy and I'd mostly agree with he concept. BUT you only do it with such a high pick of you're convinced he's IT. GMs don't abandon a pick that high so fast.

He could be awesome, but he just seems to have so many question marks for such a high pick. And when you take a QB that high you're most definitely NOT taking one the next year when of he shows nothing so far. He'd have to be in rehab with Manziel for the team to draft another even somewhat highly the next season.

A #6 overall pick - if he lasts that long - is going to get more than one season. Particularly one who is thought to be so unready coming out of school. So then he's the only serious QB pick for the next 2 drafts not just 1.

While all of this makes sense I feel that you go for broke in the draft where your pick is in the top ten. We win enough games and no blue chip prospect QB w I'll be available to us next year anyway. There are two QBs that are highly rated this draft and one is already locked up. If he's there at 6 you pick him and cross your fingers. Any player can bust

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Sorry Tom I just didn't want to Bombard you with too much information. :) I stated I hate highlight videos but that was something that poped up quick so I posted it. It shows him going through his progressions flawlessly ...It shows him keeping his head downfield and it shows he knows how to play the position but most of all it discredits most of what you posted in this thread .

Read this:

http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2015/04/06/eric-stoner-on-marcus-mariota/

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While all of this makes sense I feel that you go for broke in the draft where your pick is in the top ten. We win enough games and no blue chip prospect QB w I'll be available to us next year anyway. There are two QBs that are highly rated this draft and one is already locked up. If he's there at 6 you pick him and cross your fingers. Any player can bust

 

Yeah, but Heisman QB's have an unusual proclivity to bust. Last Heisman QB to win a SB did it in 1984. And he did it for a different team than the one who drafted him. Think Mariota is good enough to break the 31-year drought? And do it with the team that drafts him?

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Tom why do I have to read and watch Matt Waldmans opinion on Mariota ? Is he the guy who makes your opinions for you ? problem with what a lot of these guys say and point out is that they really don't have a play book and they have no idea what play is being called nor how the QB is taught to execute said plays. Its really hard to form an opinion without that prior knowledge.  Watch the guy play, watch how he carries himself, and watch how he scans the field then form your own opinion based on those very limited facts rather than reading what someone else wrote and over analyzed. I have seen a similar video about Mariota and it all seemed very cherry picked (think it might be the same guy ,,,waldman). They focused on some negative plays and ya know what ? EVERY QB has negative plays and bad games go watch Peyton Manning the last few years in the playoffs and SB ... If ya just watched those games you would come to the conclusion Peyton Manning Sucked and that's exactly why I don't take much from the opinions made by people who have zero credibility. Maybe try listening to Chip Kelly ..you know a guy who actually coached the kid and see what he has to say about his mental capacity and football knowledge. Then add that up with his physical ability and you get a pretty damn good prospect IMHO

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Yeah, but Heisman QB's have an unusual proclivity to bust. Last Heisman QB to win a SB did it in 1984. And he did it for a different team than the one who drafted him. Think Mariota is good enough to break the 31-year drought? And do it with the team that drafts him?

Huh?  Earl Cambell was a Heisman winner and he never played in a Super Bowl.  Billy Simms too. Bo Jackson.  Vinny Testaverde. Doug Flutie and Barry Sanders.  Eddie George got to one.  But his team lost.  Same with Tim Brown.  The Heisman is not an indicator of a player's likelihood to bust...or not win a super bowl.  

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In love that people choose to ignore that the Oregon receivers are wide open on nearly every MM TD throw. Watch the tape fellas. The BEST NFL guys don't get that wide open.

They're wide open because the play is designed that way. Tag passes, screens etc. but hey if we give mariota 5 years he can learn to be Brady.

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Why isnt Mariotta attending the draft?

 

Because he knows that there's a good chance he might last til the early, mid, late 20s. He knows the cameras will be on him the entire time, for hours so how can you blame him. Plus it's Chicago. Nobody wants to be there.

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Huh?  Earl Cambell was a Heisman winner and he never played in a Super Bowl.  Billy Simms too. Bo Jackson.  Vinny Testaverde. Doug Flutie and Barry Sanders.  Eddie George got to one.  But his team lost.  Same with Tim Brown.  The Heisman is not an indicator of a player's likelihood to bust...or not win a super bowl.  

 

I'm referring only to Heisman QB's. As it turns out, the Heisman, for a QB, is a very good predictor of becoming an NFL bust. And it is an excellent predictor that that QB will not win a SB.

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I'm referring only to Heisman QB's. As it turns out, the Heisman, for a QB, is a very good predictor of becoming an NFL bust. And it is an excellent predictor that that QB will not win a SB.

I don't think that really matters anymore. That said I still don't want mariota.

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I don't think that really matters anymore. That said I still don't want mariota.

 

Thirty one years of no Heisman QB winning the SB doesn't matter? At least we agree the Jets shouldn't take Mariota.

 

Here's my prediction for Mariota: His NFL career will look a lot like Carson Palmer's. He'll win lots of regular-season games and get his team into the playoffs several times, losing most of those playoff games. Will get traded late career to some other team. Definitely no SB win. And definitely a bust for any team unwise enough to take him with a top-10 pick.

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First of all, you don't win Championships in this league anymore without a big time QB.  That is why the position demands so much interest.  Until you have that top 10 QB, you just keep trying to find it.   Saying "We can live with Geno and Fitzpatrick" is lying to yourselves.  The odds are overwhelmingly in favor of Mariota not being any good, so a lot of you shouldn't feel like you're brilliant by saying he'll bust out.  Over 90% of the QB's drafted are a waste of time.

 

 

That said, I think it is worth taking Mariota.  I think he'll turn into a top 20 type of QB without a doubt, with a chance at top 10.  And that chance of top 10 is worth more than Geno or Fitz ever will be.

 

Winston is a great prospect on the field, but he's absolutely nuts and beyond immature.  Those guys typically don't make it.  They aren't smart enough to figure out how to get better and you MUST be able to get better.  Exactly the reason Manziel blows and will continue to suck.

 

Mariota plays in a spread offense, but many offenses in the NFL are moving that way, PLUS Gailey is very familiar with running that type of offense.  Not only that, but NOT every play is based strictly off of a spread concept.  Mariota's pocket movement and awareness is excellent.  His running ability (although it doesn't mean much) is very good.  Better than Geno's without a doubt.  His ability to look off certain throws is a nice plus as well.  His arm is solid, not great like Winston's but it's good enough.  His accuracy is very good in general outside of when he's moving to his left although there's a lot of guys who struggle to move in general.  His deep ball accuracy isn't great and that's probably my biggest worry.  You have to be able to throw better.  THe NFL ball is slightly different than the college ball though so you never know whether the change is going to help or hurt accuracy with these kids.

 

 

Petty is a waste of time... Can't see things happening.  Good arm and looks the part though.

 

Hundley is trash.  The instant he pulls the ball down he becomes a runner and YOU CANNOT do that in the NFL.  He'll get killed.  Zero chance at success with him.  1000% guaranteed waste of a pick.

 

Grayson has ability.  NOt a great arm either, but can read things.  Slides in the pocket EXTREMELY well and this is a quality that ALL of the best NFL QB's have.   Unreal accuracy on deep throws.  For whatever reason he doesn't miss many at all.

 

 

Only two QB's worth drafting in this draft are Mariota and Grayson.  I haven't watched Bonner fully yet so perhaps him as well.

 

 

And I don't see Fowler falling to us. 

 

The player I most want to fall to us is Kevin White.  He's better than Cooper (although Cooper isn't bad) and he has the real high end speed/size to turn into a top 5 receiver. 

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Thirty one years of no Heisman QB winning the SB doesn't matter? At least we agree the Jets shouldn't take Mariota.

Here's my prediction for Mariota: His NFL career will look a lot like Carson Palmer's. He'll win lots of regular-season games and get his team into the playoffs several times, losing most of those playoff games. Will get traded late career to some other team. Definitely no SB win. And definitely a bust for any team unwise enough to take him with a top-10 pick.

Carson Palmer had everything coming out of the draft, and Up until Kimo shredded his knee he was projecting upwards. Mariota doesn't hold a candle as a prospect compared to Palmer. Palmer played in a pro offense and stepped into the NFL day one ready. Mariota compares slot more to Geno Smith than he does Palmer. With Geno you see the limitations in his ability to read and counter a pro defense. Mariota will have similar issues coming from that program.

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Carson Palmer had everything coming out of the draft, and Up until Kimo shredded his knee he was projecting upwards. Mariota doesn't hold a candle as a prospect compared to Palmer. Palmer played in a pro offense and stepped into the NFL day one ready. Mariota compares slot more to Geno Smith than he does Palmer. With Geno you see the limitations in his ability to read and counter a pro defense. Mariota will have similar issues coming from that program.

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I'm sure every Heisman QB has a story that explains why none of them has won a SB in 31 years. In the end though, the trend is clear. It's hard to even think of any of them that was a true franchise QB, with the exception of Staubach. Even in today's game, all the franchise QB's did not win a Heisman. One possible exception may be Cam Newton, but his playoff record so far is 1-2. Moral of the story: Never waste a top 10 pick on a Heisman QB. Everyone thinks the Bucs will use their #1 pick on Winston. I wonder how many Bucs fans remember the last time they spent their #1 pick on a Heisman QB: Vinny Testaverde. He did nothing with the Bucs, was eventually traded away, then late in his career he brought the Jets to 2 AFC champ games. Unquestionably a bust for the Bucs though.

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Thirty one years of no Heisman QB winning the SB doesn't matter? At least we agree the Jets shouldn't take Mariota.

Here's my prediction for Mariota: His NFL career will look a lot like Carson Palmer's. He'll win lots of regular-season games and get his team into the playoffs several times, losing most of those playoff games. Will get traded late career to some other team. Definitely no SB win. And definitely a bust for any team unwise enough to take him with a top-10 pick.

You have an extremely positive outlook on mariota. I don't think he'll have anywhere near the career Carson Palmer had unless he ends up with Chip Kelly

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You have an extremely positive outlook on mariota. I don't think he'll have anywhere near the career Carson Palmer had unless he ends up with Chip Kelly

 

I'm sorry. Let me clarify my position. The Palmer scenario is the best possible outcome for Mariota. More likely of course that he will simply follow the path of the vast majority of Heisman QB's, and will simply be a flat out bust.

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I'm sorry. Let me clarify my position. The Palmer scenario is the best possible outcome for Mariota. More likely of course that he will simply follow the path of the vast majority of Heisman QB's, and will simply be a flat out bust.

Yeah he is a system qb and most qb's who win the heisman are system. For some reason people just assume he's a pro quarterback because of his combine numbers and the media makes a big fuss about him.

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Yeah he is a system qb and most qb's who win the heisman are system. For some reason people just assume he's a pro quarterback because of his combine numbers and the media makes a big fuss about him.

 

It's amazing to me with all the bad history of Heisman QB's how so many folks get worked up about these guys. How many more have to bust until teams realize it makes more sense to draft them in later rounds. Maybe they'll never figure it out.

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Sperm watch a few of his games don't listen to the bullsh*t about what he can or can not do. I have watched him get flushed from the pocket while keeping his eyes down field at all times I have seen him go to numerous other options rather than just the first like some would have you believe. I have seen him do a lot of things people claim he can't do/ The best option is to watch him play then look at a lot of the crap that's being spewed and make an educated decision hopefully just like our FO is doing.

 

There is only one valid argument and that's that the kid has not played in the so called pro style offense ....So with that being known everyone suggests there's no way this kid could possibly drop back from center and go through his progressions . The only valid point here being he didn't play in a pro style offense. Tell me what college QB has EVER played vs a pro defense ? That's right none have. There is no reason why this kid can't learn to read pro defenses he already has proven he can run a complicated offense in college it nay not be pro style but its complicated in its own right and he's shown to have the brain power to do it. I'm not sure what people want in a QB but one who has accounted for so many TD's and so few turnovers seems to me would be a great fit here since most of our problems have come from QB's who do nothing but turn the ball over at an alarming rate.

Experience (successful experience) playing in a pro style offense is not synonymous with experience playing against a pro defense.

 

There are a LOT of QBs with great college passing stats who were garbage. So many TDs and so few INTs would also be an accurate way of describing Tim Tebow, which doesn't even take into account his 57 rushing TDs. And this is someone who throws like a freaking girl.  Tajh Boyd's stats were pretty impressive also and he was even more useless than Tebow. And then there's Geno Smith who posted a 42:6 ratio his senior year. The last Duck QB we drafted not as gaudy, but still a very efficient 19:4 ratio in 7.5 games as a senior.

 

I know it sounds like I'm knocking him but as I've said I don't know enough first-hand to knock him. I know we don't exactly have a history of seeing eye to eye on young QBs (one Jets bust in particular).  Some 11 months ago I think you said you were done with the Jets for good because we didn't draft Manziel, who couldn't handle the rowdiness of the nightlife in Cleveland

 

It's not a knock on Mariota. It's more that he seems to have a lot of question marks for a guy getting taken as high as #2, to the point where the general consensus is he should be on the bench for a year or more. Next year (2016) would be the first serious look at him on the field, and even if he's someone we decide to move on from he'll still get a 2nd year starting - or at least an edge and the benefit of the doubt - unless he's a total EJ Manuel. Over that span we'll have passed up on QBs in 3 drafts plus the other players we'd have drafted in his place, and our current excellent veteran roster is no more.

 

I don't think he'll necessarily be a bad QB. I do think it's a lot for an otherwise win-now team to bet on.

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While all of this makes sense I feel that you go for broke in the draft where your pick is in the top ten. We win enough games and no blue chip prospect QB w I'll be available to us next year anyway. There are two QBs that are highly rated this draft and one is already locked up. If he's there at 6 you pick him and cross your fingers. Any player can bust

 

I don't. Not for a QB with so many unanswered questions.

 

I think if you go for broke at QB in or around the top 5 this is your team's QB for 2-3 seasons even if he's shown that he isn't all that.

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