Geno’s Strong Finish: Cause for Optimism, or Fool’s Gold?

[JetBlue]

Too late for that.  You can't play 2 years in the NFL then take a year off to learn the game.  Either he can play or he can't. 

I don't believe that he will be "learning the game".  He will be having the time to continue to work on those areas he is weakest at.  To assume you can't learn or get better because you already played a few years doesn't make any sense and you are just making sh*t up.  

[JetBlue]

LOL

That was funny lol. 

[SouthernJet]

Perfect.  Just bench him Weeks 1-12 then unleash the beast the final 4.

LOL, only if we are out of playoffs and the pressure is off. If we are in contention he will go 0-4

[Jetsfan80]

I don't believe that he will be "learning the game".  He will be having the time to continue to work on those areas he is weakest at.  To assume you can't learn or get better because you already played a few years doesn't make any sense and you are just making sh*t up.  

 

This isn't a guy who just needs some minor tweaks to his game here and there.  This is a guy who can't football.  Like, he can't do the job asked of him at all.  He's a massive reclamation project, which the new regime will have zero patience to cultivate.  They didn't draft him, don't want him, don't care about his feelings, and only want to win the most football games they can.  When they bench him, he'll become an afterthought.  If the light flips on for him while working with his QB coach or Fitzy, great, but they're not investing any more time than they have to with a backup QB whose contract expires in 2 years.

[SouthernJet]

I don't believe that he will be "learning the game".  He will be having the time to continue to work on those areas he is weakest at.  To assume you can't learn or get better because you already played a few years doesn't make any sense and you are just making sh*t up.  

you 100% can learn to read defenses better, learn teammates routes etc better. But learn Progressions calmly without panicking and leading the 2nd/3rd WR so u get YAC, ehh, not so easy. especially with new playbook. when we fired MM and got new OC I felt geno had little chance of starting in 2015. he may be well end up being a career backup for us as he learns the system on pine. who knows..

[jgb]

I don't believe that he will be "learning the game".  He will be having the time to continue to work on those areas he is weakest at.  To assume you can't learn or get better because you already played a few years doesn't make any sense and you are just making sh*t up.  

 

i think he is a simpleton who can't process nfl playbooks and defenses

[JetBlue]

This isn't a guy who just needs some minor tweaks to his game here and there.  This is a guy who can't football.  Like, he can't do the job asked of him at all.  He's a massive reclamation project, which the new regime will have zero patience to cultivate.  They didn't draft him, don't want him, don't care about his feelings, and only want to win the most football games they can.  When they bench him, he'll become an afterthought.  If the light flips on for him while working with his QB coach or Fitzy, great, but they're not investing any more time than they have to with a backup QB whose contract expires in 2 years.

See that is were we disagree.  I don't see some massive reclamation project; I see a guy who needs to have better ball security and get better going through his progressions.  He did demonstrate that ability in college so I dont know why he has struggled so much with that in the pros.   It may be that you are right and he never gets it but the I have seen people written off before by "experts" of all kinds only to defy the odds.  I am a firm believer to never let someone elses opinion of me or my abilities to become my reality. Hopefully, neither does Geno. 

[Jetsfan80]

It may be that you are right and he never gets it but the I have seen people written off before by "experts" of all kinds only to defy the odds. 

 

Name 1 QB in the last 10 years in the category of bad that Geno has been who did that.  I named Alex Smith already.

[AFJF]

Name 1 QB in the last 10 years in the category of bad that Geno has been who did that.  I named Alex Smith already.

 

This is a key part of the discussion.  While "anything can happen" usually gets thrown in to these discussions, we should be looking at how often a player who has been as bad as Geno eventually comes around and wins anything.

[SouthernJet]

See that is were we disagree.  I don't see some massive reclamation project; I see a guy who needs to have better ball security and get better going through his progressions.  He did demonstrate that ability in college so I dont know why he has struggled so much with that in the pros.   It may be that you are right and he never gets it but the I have seen people written off before by "experts" of all kinds only to defy the odds.  I am a firm believer to never let someone elses opinion of me or my abilities to become my reality. Hopefully, neither does Geno. 

I hear ya and admire your loyality.. I hope lights go on also,,but you have to remember a very imporatnt thing about 'progressions in college'.. You know they 'know/understand them' when they show them in NFL Year One cause if they show in college and not in NFL it means competition,,you and I both know even on major college teams you may have 1-4 guys who will play in NFL following year. And that means zero to 1 CB/safety probably makes NFL next year. In NFL every safety/CB , even if on pine, was AllSEC, All Pac10 etc etc, at minimum they were 2nd string All Conference..

Progressions in college like night and day from Pros, which is why 'most scouts' focus on Progressions more than  anything cause its tuf to gauge, need great scouts to see if it will translate to next level and isnt aberration of poor college secondaries..

if Geno is starter I will support, if he get sit I would be over joyed. I just need to see more and I mean see it fast...... my guess since teams play scrubs in preseason, Jets will have Geno go with 1st team offense vs 1st team Defense A LOT in camp so he gets REAL competition and not rely on phony preseaosn games (which only serve to hurt players)

hey you Bleed Green and arent some kind of troll,, OK in my book!!!!!!!!!!!

 

JETS!!!!!!!!

[JetBlue]

Name 1 QB in the last 10 years in the category of bad that Geno has been who did that.  I named Alex Smith already.

 

I hear ya and admire your loyality.. I hope lights go on also,,but you have to remember a very imporatnt thing about 'progressions in college'.. You know they 'know/understand them' when they show them in NFL Year One cause if they show in college and not in NFL it means competition,,you and I both know even on major college teams you may have 1-4 guys who will play in NFL following year. And that means zero to 1 CB/safety probably makes NFL next year. In NFL every safety/CB , even if on pine, was AllSEC, All Pac10 etc etc, at minimum they were 2nd string All Conference..

Progressions in college like night and day from Pros, which is why 'most scouts' focus on Progressions more than  anything cause its tuf to gauge, need great scouts to see if it will translate to next level and isnt aberration of poor college secondaries..

if Geno is starter I will support, if he get sit I would be over joyed. I just need to see more and I mean see it fast...... my guess since teams play scrubs in preseason, Jets will have Geno go with 1st team offense vs 1st team Defense A LOT in camp so he gets REAL competition and not rely on phony preseaosn games (which only serve to hurt players)

hey you Bleed Green and arent some kind of troll,, OK in my book!!!!!!!!!!!

 

JETS!!!!!!!!

Thanks Man.  I appreciate it .   We are in agreement.  If nothing else, going up against our secondary in practice will either help in his development or totally destroy any confidence he has left lol. 

[SouthernJet]

Thanks Man.  I appreciate it .   We are in agreement.  If nothing else, going up against our secondary in practice will either help in his development or totally destroy any confidence he has left lol. 

yes, w/out revamped secondary and front 7, Bowles/gailey will know real quick in camp if he has progressed... if he passes that test and is superior to Fitz/drafted QB, I am OK w/him starting

[KRL]

In my book the only thing Smith gets this year is a chance to compete for the starting job.  I'm

not going to be deceived (like last year) by good play in the final month of the season

[Warfish]

I was so pleased to hear Cimini report that the people in the Jets Org. feel that Fitz will be the starting QB on opening day.

 

Nothing wrong with belief and faith, but belief and faith are religion, not reality.  

 

Reality is that Geno Smith, thus far, is either the worst starting QB in the NFL or in the bottom 2 or 3 at best.  Facts, not faith.

 

If folks faith comes true, it will be a pleasant surprise.

 

Otherwise, Fitz will be the guy, and we'll still have more reason for optimism than we've had the last two seasons.

[JetBlue]

Name 1 QB in the last 10 years in the category of bad that Geno has been who did that.  I named Alex Smith already.

Sorry let me get back to you on that as I don't have time right now to do the research.   However I don't get caught in statistics like that because basically they are meaningless to me because they don't take in consideration all the factors involved.   Not to mention we are dealing with human beings who can and do change for the better or worse. 

 

He has only played two years and while his last four games are dismissed as "meaningless" I personally saw progress.   He now has better players and coaches around him.  He is older and more mature and also understands whats at stake as far as his career in NY is concerned.  Motivation like that can't be quantified by just looking at numbers.

 

 While I keep reading what I feel are  borderline racist comments about how "dumb and stupid" he is; he is actually rather intelligent and I see no reason why he can't learn and get better.  Doesn't mean he will of course but this mindset that HE CAN'T is one just don't agree with.   

[SouthernJet]

Sorry let me get back to you on that as I don't have time right now to do the research.   However I don't get caught in statistics like that because basically they are meaningless to me because they don't take in consideration all the factors involved.   Not to mention we are dealing with human beings who can and do change for the better or worse. 

 

He has only played two years and while his last four games are dismissed as "meaningless" I personally saw progress.   He now has better players and coaches around him.  He is older and more mature and also understands whats at stake as far as his career in NY is concerned.  Motivation like that can't be quantified by just looking at numbers.

 

 While I keep reading what I feel are  borderline racist comments about how "dumb and stupid" he is; he is actually rather intelligent and I see no reason why he can't learn and get better.  Doesn't mean he will of course but this mindset that HE CAN'T is one just don't agree with.   

please dont play racial card.. dumb and stupid comments are  100% used I am sure cause he cant read progressions (and that means at least 3 progressions plus his safety valve) which has always been the #1 barometer in NFL (along w/reading defenses) to quantify a QBs IQ. 

Ryan Leaf had exact same on field issues as Geno (along w/drugs) and if you recall folks always called him dumb as s**t.

[JetBlue]

I was so pleased to hear Cimini report that the people in the Jets Org. feel that Fitz will be the starting QB on opening day.

 

Nothing wrong with belief and faith, but belief and faith and religion, not reality.  

 

Reality is that Geno Smith, thus far, is either the worst starting QB in the NFL or in the bottom 2 or 3 at best.  Facts, not faith.

 

If folks faith comes true, it will be a pleasant surprise.

 

Otherwise, Fitz will be the guy, and we'll still have more reason for optimism than we've had the last two seasons.

 

See this is funny to me because I posted an article about how the team was not giving up on Geno and will give him every opportunity to compete and want to see for themselves what they have and that was dismissed as PR, what do you expect them to say etc..  An article comes out saying Fitz will be the starter and no one questions it lol.   I personally have no problem with Fitz starting assuming he wins the job but the mindset here is really revealing.  I am not talking about you specificelly Warfish, just making an observation.

 

 

http://www.metro.us/new-york/jets-say-they-haven-t-given-up-on-geno-smith-he-ll-compete-to-start/zsJodm---sCJbk0hrlmdvw/

 

 

They have already brought in a veteran quarterback and will work out the top three quarterbacks in this April's NFL draft, but don't think that the New York Jets have given up on Geno Smith.

At least, not yet.

Smith, set to enter his third year in the league after being a second-round pick of the Jets in 2013, is at a pivotal juncture of his career and development. It isn't make or break for the young quarterback but his future with the team and perhaps as a starter very much rests upon this offseason. But with the Jets set to work out Jameis Winston this week and having gone to the pro day for Marcus Mariota, reading the tea leaves would indicate that the Jets are set to wave the white flag on Smith. Yet tea leaves sometimes are far from reality.

It is a new regime in Florham Park with first-year head coach Todd Bowles as well as a wet-behind-the-ears general manager in Mike Maccagnan. There's no ties to Smith, in fact, veteran Ryan Fitzpatrick, who was brought in this offseason, has ties to Maccagnan and offensive coordinator Chan Gailey. But the staff isn't biased against Smith, either, as they haven't been here his first two years in the league, and this can work in Smith's favor.

“Geno is going to be given the chance to come right in and compete. It's a new coaching staff here now and they need to kick the tires on him, see what he is all about,” a league source told Metro. “All that talk about him being traded, being cut it just doesn't make sense.

“He has two seasons worth of starts and has had some big wins for us. He's not getting cut, there's too much upside to see and explore. Does that mean he's the starter? It's not a 'gimme.' He has to win it. Ryan was brought in here with the same mindset [that] the best man starts Week 1.

“But Geno is far from six-feet under around here.”

So the source is saying that there's a chance.

Last month, Metro reported that Fitzpatrick wasn't brought in just to mentor Smith but to compete for the starting job. The source again reiterated that the team thinks Fitzpatrick can be the Jets starter - “he can certainly win the job and people in this building think he can.” There's reason to understand why Smith isn't the presumptive starter heading into 2015.

Smith through two seasons has shown little if any progress. He's thrown more interceptions than touchdowns in both NFL seasons and has yet to post a winning record. More often than not, he's proven to be alright as a game manager.

What he hasn't proven is that he can win games.

“He can do more, I think everyone knows that. Mechanically, the people in that quarterback room know there's work to be done. He struggles with reading defenses still,” the source said.

“But after two years, his time here can't be written off. There's not some big movement to get rid of him. Remember, he is still on a rookie contract. Even as a backup it is still a good deal for this team.

It comes down to maturity and him taking that next step. If he can he can make things interesting around here.”

[Warfish]

While I keep reading what I feel are  borderline racist comments about how "dumb and stupid" he is...

 

As opposed to your blatantly sexist, objectifying and misogynist sig image, amirite?

Save the lectures, eh. He's called dumb because he plays dumb, and is a turnover machine.

Not because he's black. Stop projecting.

See this is funny to me because I posted an article about how the team was not giving up on Geno and will give him every opportunity to compete

He will get every chance to compete. Cimini certainly didn't deny that.

He just said his contacts in the Org (unnamed of course) feel Fitz will defeat him rather handily.

A belief supported by their respective careers to-date.

[JetBlue]

please dont play racial card.. dumb and stupid comments are  100% used I am sure cause he cant read progressions (and that means at least 3 progressions plus his safety valve) which has always been the #1 barometer in NFL (along w/reading defenses) to quantify a QBs IQ. 

Ryan Leaf had exact same on field issues as Geno (along w/drugs) and if you recall folks always called him dumb as s**t.

Racial Card?  Do you read most of the comments about this guy?   Not just dumb or stupid " he be stupid" etc. Sorry I call it like I see it. 

[JetBlue]

 

As opposed to your blatantly sexist, objectifying and misogynist sig image, amirite?

Save the lectures, eh. He's called dumb because he plays dumb, and is a turnover machine.

Not because he's black. Stop projecting.

 I guess I hit a nerve. Figures

[SouthernJet]

Racial Card?  Do you read most of the comments about this guy?   Not just dumb or stupid " he be stupid" etc. Sorry I call it like I see it. 

nah u r off base cause he has sucks so bad (so far),,if he was even the 25th of 32 QBs u may have point, but he is horrid and his play id dumb and stupid cause his faults are in the thinking part of game, progressions/read defenses,,so I dont see how racial,, he is dumb football IQ wise just like Ryan Leaf was..

[JetBlue]

nah u r off base cause he has sucks so bad (so far),,if he was even the 25th of 32 QBs u may have point, but he is horrid and his play id dumb and stupid cause his faults are in the thinking part of game, progressions/read defenses,,so I dont see how racial,, he is dumb football IQ wise just like Ryan Leaf was..

Okay I will stand corrected.  

[flgreen]

I'm not 100% sure how much of a real chance smith is going to get in the pre-season.  Bowles has said that smith will be  penciled in as starter when camp begins (OTA's?)  because we have no one else.     The Jets have also made it clear they hope to draft another QB.   It depends who that QB is. 

 

If they draft Mariota at six, or even move up for him, I'm not so sure Gailey will be directing a lot of attention toward getting smith ready for the starting job.  Have a feeling he will be paying a lot of attention to the new regimes hope.   QB's selected at #6 usually get a tremendous amount of attention from the OC and QB's coach.  If it's Mariota, he'll need the attention.

 

Just a thought

 

 

 

GO RANGERS

[jgb]

Racial Card?  Do you read most of the comments about this guy?   Not just dumb or stupid " he be stupid" etc. Sorry I call it like I see it. 

 

lol ya too bad most of us "racists" would love to have a chance at winston or mariota

[flgreen]

lol ya too bad most of us "racists" would love to have a chance at winston or mariota

Yeah I was going to mention that, but decided not to because I didn't call smith stupid, at least not in this thread

 

 

 

 

GO RANGERS

[Ex-Rex]

Fool's Gold and let's hope Mac and Bowles aren't fools like the bozo's that were just shown the door. I agree that Geno was not in the best situation to succeed with Rex as his HC and David Lee as his QB coach. But there were games where he looked like he didn't belong on the field at all. Plus, he can't diagnose defenses at the LOS costing the Jets a winnable game vs NE where all he had to do was NOT LOSE YARDS and let Folks kick a reasonable FG. BUT NO!! This idiot takes a sack that loses nine yards and Folks kick was well short. His season ending QBR was only slightly ahead of rookie David Carr and Blake Bortles who is a bust if I ever saw one.

[RutgersJetFan]

These are not good questions, Glenn.

[Jetsfan80]

Sorry let me get back to you on that as I don't have time right now to do the research.   However I don't get caught in statistics like that because basically they are meaningless to me because they don't take in consideration all the factors involved.     

 

Ok then.  So statistics are meaningless and the only people who are right were the same people saying Mark Sanchez's circumstances were the reasons for his failures.  Got it.

[papz187]

Without reading the thread I'll say it's a cause for optimism for me.

I saw and could just feel a more confident, improved Geno at the start of the 2014 season. My brother, who's a 49ers fan and is neutral when it comes to the Jets, also said he felt Geno looked better from the start, even despite the fumble and INT in the Oakland game (which was a great play by Woodson).

He came out on fire in Green Bay too that first half, but that INT right before the half really hurt (Geno got hit as he was throwing or otherwise I think it could of been 6). He still threw that game tying TD to Kerley that was called back because of MMs timeout, then converted the 4th down the following play but just couldn't quite get over the hump and things snowballed and started to go down hill fast.

He did rebound well after the benching and seemed to regain some of his composure and played fairly well, even despite the first Miami game where the coaching staff basically ran it all game (seemed more like an F YOU to Idzik for forcing them who to start instead of a lack of confidence in Geno, but regardless Geno couldn't of felt great after that statement).

I think how he starts the season (if he wins the job) will be important. Geno needs to build confidence with himself and the offense, get off on the right foot and go from there. To me he isn't a lost cause yet, and there is reason for some optimism.....but I'll also admit it's far more likely he fails then becomes the starter we hoped for when he was drafted.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

[JetBlue]

Without reading the thread I'll say it's a cause for optimism for me.

I saw and could just feel a more confident, improved Geno at the start of the 2014 season. My brother, who's a 49ers fan and is neutral when it comes to the Jets, also said he felt Geno looked better from the start, even despite the fumble and INT in the Oakland game (which was a great play by Woodson).

He came out on fire in Green Bay too that first half, but that INT right before the half really hurt (Geno got hit as he was throwing or otherwise I think it could of been 6). He still threw that game tying TD to Kerley that was called back because of MMs timeout, then converted the 4th down the following play but just couldn't quite get over the hump and things snowballed and started to go down hill fast.

He did rebound well after the benching and seemed to regain some of his composure and played fairly well, even despite the first Miami game where the coaching staff basically ran it all game (seemed more like an F YOU to Idzik for forcing them who to start instead of a lack of confidence in Geno, but regardless Geno couldn't of felt great after that statement).

I think how he starts the season (if he wins the job) will be important. Geno needs to build confidence with himself and the offense, get off on the right foot and go from there. To me he isn't a lost cause yet, and there is reason for some optimism.....but I'll also admit it's far more likely he fails then becomes the starter we hoped for when he was drafted.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

Solid post. 

[JetBlue]

Ok then.  So statistics are meaningless and the only people who are right were the same people saying Mark Sanchez's circumstances were the reasons for his failures.  Got it.

 

However I don't get caught in statistics like that because basically they are meaningless to me because they don't take in consideration all the factors involved.

 

That was the quote but of course you knew that when you replied... 

 

Now we bring in Mark Sanchez, who has nothing to do with this discussion.  Nice

[JetBlue]

Fool's Gold and let's hope Mac and Bowles aren't fools like the bozo's that were just shown the door. I agree that Geno was not in the best situation to succeed with Rex as his HC and David Lee as his QB coach. But there were games where he looked like he didn't belong on the field at all. Plus, he can't diagnose defenses at the LOS costing the Jets a winnable game vs NE where all he had to do was NOT LOSE YARDS and let Folks kick a reasonable FG. BUT NO!! This idiot takes a sack that loses nine yards and Folks kick was well short. His season ending QBR was only slightly ahead of rookie David Carr and Blake Bortles who is a bust if I ever saw one.

So Bortles is a bust after his first year?  I don't know what you expect out of rookie or second year quarterbacks but if you expect Russell Wilson or Andrew Luck you are going to be disappointed... alot. 

[j4jets]

Are you going to enlighten me? Again. He is not consistent. If he were, he would be our surefire starter and we would not be trading for Fitzpatrick and contemplating Mariota, WInston, Hundley, Petty, and on and on. I am really not interested in hearing the weapnz argument again. I have defended the kid more than he deserves. He earned a shot. Nothing more, air quotes or not.

"Weapnz argument" is really just a fact. He's no Peyton Manning that can make an undrafted WR look like an NFL caliber WR. He's an average QB that needs couple of WRs worth a crap to be effective, just like any average QB does. Average QBs are rarely "surefire starters". Geno has a much higher ceiling than your average Joe. Problem is, his floor is pretty low too.

[j4jets]

Without reading the thread I'll say it's a cause for optimism for me.

I saw and could just feel a more confident, improved Geno at the start of the 2014 season. My brother, who's a 49ers fan and is neutral when it comes to the Jets, also said he felt Geno looked better from the start, even despite the fumble and INT in the Oakland game (which was a great play by Woodson).

He came out on fire in Green Bay too that first half, but that INT right before the half really hurt (Geno got hit as he was throwing or otherwise I think it could of been 6). He still threw that game tying TD to Kerley that was called back because of MMs timeout, then converted the 4th down the following play but just couldn't quite get over the hump and things snowballed and started to go down hill fast.

He did rebound well after the benching and seemed to regain some of his composure and played fairly well, even despite the first Miami game where the coaching staff basically ran it all game (seemed more like an F YOU to Idzik for forcing them who to start instead of a lack of confidence in Geno, but regardless Geno couldn't of felt great after that statement).

I think how he starts the season (if he wins the job) will be important. Geno needs to build confidence with himself and the offense, get off on the right foot and go from there. To me he isn't a lost cause yet, and there is reason for some optimism.....but I'll also admit it's far more likely he fails then becomes the starter we hoped for when he was drafted.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

Completely agree with you on the entire post, except we weren't expecting a hall of fame QB in the 2nd round.

He's a streaky player that feeds off of confidence n a good start to the season will definitely help him.

[#27TheDominator]

"Weapnz argument" is really just a fact. He's no Peyton Manning that can make an undrafted WR look like an NFL caliber WR. He's an average QB that needs couple of WRs worth a crap to be effective, just like any average QB does. Average QBs are rarely "surefire starters". Geno has a much higher ceiling than your average Joe. Problem is, his floor is pretty low too.

 

I don't want to play this game.  I have seen him play.  There are things he has done wrong that you should never do, even if you are playing with your Pop Warner team against the Madden All-Stars.  He goes in a funk.  He turns it over.  Is he better with better players around him?  Duh.  I have no faith in him, the coaches don't appear to have any faith in him.  If you do, you're a better man than I am, Gunga Din.  He does have a decent enough ceiling which is why they will give him an opportunity to start - I think it will be pretty telling how quickly he earns or loses Gailey's trust.