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GAME OF THRONES (*SPOILERS ALERT*)

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15 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Also the one thing we need to be talking about is why the **** didn't Rickon zig-zag? Wasn't that obvious enough even for such a stupid little sh*t like him? Who the hell runs straight when they're getting shot at by arrows?

Real answer, just pure panic.

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2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

So, if Jon Snow is the son of a Leanna and Raygar, then he's not just the rightful heir to Winterfell as a true Stark, but also the 7 Kingdoms as a true descendant of a Targaryen. Kind of inconvenient for Danneryasssssssss. 

He's a bastard son of Rhaegar, and he's further down the line for the North as he's not Ned's son.

I don't think he wants the throne, he just wants the north, the way it was before.

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3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I'd also give 1:1 odds that both the Blackfish and Stannis are alive. Those pieces of dialogue in the finale went out of their way to mention both of them. 

I think they are both dead.  Blackfish for sure, the soldiers would not have lied to Jamie.

Brienne loved Renley, and Stannis murdered him with Black Blood Magic or whatever it's called. 

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FYI,

The Queen of Thorns.   Star of the 60's TV show, "The Avengers"

Queen.jpeg

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1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

So I had a good night's sleep to reflect on everything:

1. Season 7 has gotta be half and half, right? Like 3-4 episodes for Dany's conquest and the next 3-4 for the Night King.

2. I don't care who wins. Everyone is awesome. Cersei is awesome. Dany is awesome, Jon is awesome. The only thing I do care about? Arya's revenge tour. Don't deprive the audience of that. I don't know how the **** she morphed into my favorite character but it happened damn quickly. 

2 more seasons, about 13 episodes total by what they are saying.  I honestly think they wanted it done in one more, but realized that they couldn't do it.

Arya,  so awesome.  As soon as I saw the one woman eyeing Jaime, I was pretty sure it was her.   Great scene.

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My long term predicitons.  This is just stuff I've been thinking on for a while, not from any website or book or anything other than my befuddled brain.

Jaime kills Cersei.  Maybe even, she sees the fleet coming, and like the Mad King before her, realizes she is doomed and wants to ignite more wild fire and burn the whole city.  Just as he saved the city before by killing his king, now he kills his sister to save it again. 

Khaleesi marries Jaime.  She will marry to solidify her power.  Who else is there?  I don't think she'd marry Jon, he's her nephew, and it just seems  wrong.  Tyrion may convince her what Jaime did was for the best, and Tyrion will not want his family utterly destroyed.  There are no men in Dorne for her to marry of any worth, nor are there any Tyrells.  Jon/ Sansa becomes the King of the North, but makes the same vows Ned made to Robert, and Robert would have made to Renley. 

The Hound becomes the leader of the Men without Banners, and gains the power of the flaming sword that Beric had several seasons ago. 

OK, rip it apart!!

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6 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

The biggest villain in Game of Thrones is Littlefinger, is now, always has been. He's not like Joffrey and Ramsey, where everything he done is out-front, over-the-top dooshy, and damning... which ultimately forces confrontation and death. He works in the background, and he's done so brilliantly. He's easy to under-estimate, yet often manipulates things to his advantage. People forget that when he engineered Joffrey's assassination that it doesn't make Littlefinger a "good guy", he just killed off a character fans all hated. He was still self-serving in his actions and you saw in his pursuit of Sansa as a wife how that Joffrey kill, plus the sh*t he pulled at the Vail, all had an endgame in mind for him.

He's not going to sit idly by. I cannot wait to see how they feature him over the final two seasons... I feel he's been under-utilized with the fixation on Ramsey, and them digging themselves out of that horrible Arya storyline. That was probably the worst preoccupation of the whole show. I'm glad they brought her back to relevancy, and gave the whole "faces" experience some purpose.

He killed Jon Arryn, which made Ned become the Hand of the King.   He pushed the Starks and Lannisters towards war.   He is totally evil. 

But, the way he is written, it's hard to do a whole show about him.  He doesn't have much of his own army, rather he pushes others into fighting for him.

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7 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

a true manipulator... he is without the means of an army, family name, or fortune... and yet he puppeteers others into conflict, to suit his agenda... i love the character, frankly

NO, don't get me wrong.  He is brilliant.  The WORST, the most dangerous.

He's a bit better in the books, that;s where they can really spend time on how he manipulates.   He is a great character, I just wonder if, the way the series is constructed, he can carry the show as the main villian.   I think they will focus on Cersei a bit, and then the White Walkers, with Littlefinger getting some air time.

His "Chaos is a ladder" speech.   Epic.

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8 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

It's like Varys is his complete and total counterpart. 

(So far)

Varys is loyal to the Targaryens, and to the realm.   Also, I think he realizes he can never be king, since he is a Eunich. 

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3 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Fair enough; I meant that according to the perspective and history we've been given as an audience into this realm (so far), lilfingz has been acting as the bad guy, whereas varys has almost always been on the good side of each historical event/action. 

Agree.   Varys is at least loyal to someone else.  Little finger is loyal to Little finger. 

But that is what is so great.  Everyone has blood on their hands, it's all perspective.  Really, probably the only "Good Guy" was Ned.  I love it!

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On 7/2/2016 at 0:08 PM, Irish Jet said:

I've long thought Jaime would kill Cersei that way. I actually thought Cersei was going to inadvertently burn down the city in the last episode as there's supposed to be Wildfire everywhere according to Jaime. Not sure Jaime will save the city this time though - Bran and Dany have both seen visions of a desolated, destroyed throne room. 

If Jaime were to end up with anyone it would be Brienne IMO. He's never been motivated by power either so I just don't think it would fit. Would like to see him meet Tyrion again though.

I have a feeling Sansa might betray Jon, based on nothing but that ominous look from LF and the music that played during it. He's basically taken a title that she should inherit by law and they've went out of their way to show that she doesn't fully trust him. 

The Hound hates fire, so don't think he'd want that sword. LOL. Hoping he meets up with Arya again. 

That could be.  Cersei actually burning Kings Landing and Jaime killing her for that. 

Jaime is an interesting character.  He really just liked fighting and his sister, he had no second thoughts about trying to kill a 7 year old boy.  He didn't care for money, but now, his sister is mad, and he can't fight. 

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Heard a weird theory, which would be awesome (though I doubt it)

What if Khaleesi goes mad?   Remember, her father wasn't in his youth, not until he got older.  Be crazy if she started to, or even if the show ended as she is showing signs of it, especially with dragons under her command.

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1 minute ago, JiF said:

Seems pretty wild.  She's the breaker of chains and stuff.  She's all about freedom of slaves but then she goes mental?  I dont know.  Seems far fetched.  Especially considering all the people that are her "advisers" for the lack of a better term. 

When your parents were brother and sister, and your grandparents, and ect., you can go a little off.

She wanted to destroy a whole city, Tyrion talked her out of it.

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5 hours ago, JiF said:

This is true.  Again, I just dont see it...but I dont know sh*t about the books and all that.  

 

You are past the books with the show, and they have veered away from where the books were going, so there is no hidden things to know as far as where the show is going, but there is some stuff extra in the older material.  The mad king was pretty normal when he was younger, and was actually very good friends with Tywin Lannister.  Then he went crazy and started burning people alive.

The mad king married his twin sister.   The Targaryean line was known for that kind of stuff.  In breeding to the extreme. 

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5 hours ago, JiF said:

Can someone explain the John Snow story arch to me?  Who is he?  He's the bastard son of the Robert dude that got killed hunting?  So he had an affair with Ned Starke's sister or something?

And how is this relevant?   Is it because he's not actually an heir to Winterfell?  Like, if people find out is this a bad thing for John Snow?

no.  Everyone thought he was Ned's bastard son.  Actually, he is the son of Ned's sister and Rhaegar Targaryen, which makes him direct in line for the throne.  If Ned had told his best friend Robert who John actually was, Robert would have killed him.

But, to make it worse.   The Mad King was the king before Robert.   His son was Rhaegar.   Robert (the old fat king) was in love with Ned's sister, and was due to marry her.  The Mad King's son Rhaegar was married to a princess of Dorne.  Everyone thought Rhaegar kidnapped Ned's sister, which is what started the entire revolution that ended with the Targaryeans all dead and Robert as king.   It looks like Ned's sister (Lyanna?) actually ran off with Rhaegar, and had a son with him before dying in childbirth.

Thus, the whole revolution was done for no reason, as no one was kidnapped, and all the other political bad stuff.

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15 hours ago, JiF said:

Gotcha.  Thanks for explaining that.  And Ned helped Robert win those wars, correct?  Does that mean he was fighting but already knew the truth? 

The one thing that I'll say about binge watching, there is so much going on that intake all at once can get a little confusing considering all the moving parts.  

Ned was Robert's best friend.   They grew up together in the same house, being fostered by Jon Arryn, who later married Catalyn (Ned's Wife) sister.  

Ned's sister was taken by Rhaegar.   Ned's father and older brother went to the mad king to get her back.  The Mad King accused them of treason, and had Ned's father do a trial by combat.  The Mad King chose fire as his champion, and held Ned's father over a fire (the fire won).  Ned's brother I think was killed trying to save his dad.  Then the Mad King ordered Ned and Robert be brought to him, and Jon Arryn refused, and thus the Ayrie (however you spell it), Robert's kingdom, and the North rebelled against the Mad King.

The was was won, Ned went to find his sister right after Rhaegar had been killed, and that's when you see that fight, Ned finds his sister, she whispers to him (99% that John Snow is her and Rhaegar's son), and makes him promise her something, probably to take care of John.  So, the war was over, but if Ned told anyone who John really was, John would be killed, and who knows what else would have happened.   Instead, Ned went home, the new Lord of the North, Robert became king, married Cersei to ally with a very powerful family, and Jon Arryn married Ned's sister in law (who was in love with Little finger).

That's what I love about the show.   The layers and layers and depth of connections.

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3 hours ago, JiF said:

Damn!  Did you get all that from just watching the show? 

 

Most.   It's been so long, I get confused where I heard what first. 

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Aerys_II_Targaryen

You start looking people up on this, and one links to another, and (for me), I just got drawn in.  It's all so in depth, and perspective.  Some people are evil, Joffrey, Ramsey.   More are just, perspective.  Tywin Lannister for example.  He starts a war to save his innocent son.  He fights ruthlessly, yet efficiently, saving as many of his own people as he can.  And, let's face it, he would make a great ruler.   If he ruled, the kingdom would have peace, the debt the throne owed would be paid off, the regular people would be safe once he had finished taking over.

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3 hours ago, JiF said:

Why would Tyrion align with her if he knows she's going to go crazy?  To sabotage it or to make sure he's on her good side?  He hates Kings Landing and his sister, so I dont see why he'd be trying to help them out.

He doesn't know, he may suspect.  Also, he likes being in the "Great Game" and this is the only way he can get it.   He can be a trusted advisor, and lead a life of luxury.  Or he can be a wanted dwarf murderer.

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14 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Tywin was my favorite character. I knew once he died, the whole thing was gonna spiral. 

That's the beauty of point of view.   If he was there, Ned never would have been killed, there would have been no war.   It was his moron daughter and psycho grandson that did most of the damage.  The scenes of him and Arya were fabulous.

 

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4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Soooooo some pretty nice table-setting. Favorite part was Sansa telling Jon that his father and brother were stupid and that's why they got overrun. And in a testament to how awful the world is, I read multiple recaps where people were outright pissed about Ed Sheeran.

 

Spoiler speculation-- Stannis and Melisandre are about to walk back into Dragonstone

I don't get the Ed Sheeran hate.  I just didn't care, I didn't even recognize him.

Arya, "tell them the North remembers"    What a bad ass

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4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Soooooo some pretty nice table-setting. Favorite part was Sansa telling Jon that his father and brother were stupid and that's why they got overrun. And in a testament to how awful the world is, I read multiple recaps where people were outright pissed about Ed Sheeran.

 

Spoiler speculation-- Stannis and Melisandre are about to walk back into Dragonstone

Stannis walks into Dragonstone, Khaleesi has him killed in .1 seconds.    The brother of the usurper?   Dead.

Notice who was in the cell reaching out at Sam?

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19 hours ago, JiF said:

Wait, the Hound's brother was The Mountain, who is now the undead dude the protects Cersei?  I thought his brother was the dude he fought at the games when they were jousting and he lost his sh*t and cut off the head of his horse and seemed to be ready to attack Joffery? 

Same dude.

He was poisened, and Qyburn or whatever his name is saved him, but turned him into a kind of zombie looking thing.   Like 4 actors played the role on the show until they found someone they really like.

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4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Who's the one dead character you'd want to come back to life? I'm going with Tywin because 1. Charles Dance is incredible and 2. He was the moral center of the show and losing him sort of set the whole GoT universe adrift.

I loved Tywin.   Really not a bad guy, just on a different side then the Starks.

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13 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Look, I get it. I read a lot too. When Nolan's Foundation series drops I'll probably be critiquing it to death because I hold those books dear to me and I will constantly be making comparisons. Completely understandable. It's human nature.

That said, there is no way anything he wrote compares to the last two episodes of last season, or plenty of others. There's just no way. Game of Thrones is entertainment on such another level of things it's insane. Character development and all, that's great and hard and damned impressive when an author pulls it off. But there is no way in hell anyone is ever going to convince me that anything in those books is as good as, for example, that moment when Cersei brought down the whole thing.

The best way I can put it is this: That scene where Arya bakes Walda's kids into a pie and feeds it to him? Benioff and Martin stole that from Shakespeare. Titus Andronicus, Act III. I knew it the second it happened because Titus is a personal favorite of mine. And you know what? That moment in the show was better than Shakespeare wrote it in the play. And if the show is better than Shakespeare than I can be pretty confident in saying it's better than Martin.

His first 3 books were real good, four was awful.  Awful.

The Arya pie thing was sort of done in the books.   A different lord, loyal to the Starks did it, or was insinuated as having done it. 

What is this Foundation Series you speak of?   I feel the same way with the Dark Tower coming out.   It will be nothing like the books, and I'm going to have to try to separate it from them to watch it.

I really think Euron (the pirate kind guy) is going to somehow steal a dragon.  It's the only way to level the playing field.

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1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I'll second this one. Tywin was the man. The scene where he called Arya out for traveling as a boy is my favorite piece of dialogue in the entire series. There was something about the way he said "smart."

People forget, the great irony of Arya's revenge tour is that she's only alive because of Tywin.

 

Tywin and Arya were great.   I've said it before, he wasn't a "bad guy".   He was protecting his family, and was the best ruler in the entire show.

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1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Agreed. It was as-if he represented a time long passed, when rivalries and battles were fought by generals in battlefields. Unlike what his children ushered in which is a time of politics, deceit, shadow-moves, etc.

They were.   People were also scared to cross him.   If you did what you should, you were left alone.   If you crossed him, you could be utterly destroyed.

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Heard a great theory.   It had to do with "Why are the White Walkers Invading?"

#1.   Everyone says Brand the Builder and the Children of the Forrest made the wall.   Well, what if it was Bran and the White Walkers who made the wall.   After all, who has the most power with ice?   The children have power over trees and living things.   Maybe the wall was made as a truce, with the Walkers getting the land north of the wall.   Now, thousands of years later, their land has been "invaded" by thousands and thousands of Free Folk.   Over 100 thousand.

There could have been a truce, and the mortal men forgot it started breaking their part of it, and now the Walkers are retaliating.

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

Interesting but Bran through his time travel stuff found out that the children are the ones who created the White Walkers because they were being destroyed by man.  The White Walkers would help them survive and fight man.  Also, wasnt the one creepy wildling dude who raped or married all his daughters offering his male sons to the white walkers?  So technically the Free Folk were already giving the White Walkers concessions. 

And are the Children of the Forrest dead?  haha Or just some creepy ass kids that dont age? 

I'm still holding strong that Bran uses his powers to go back in time and somehow eliminates the creation of the White Walkers. 

 

Children of the Forrest don't really age as I understand it, kind of like Tolkein's elves.   But they are all but wiped up.

Or....  did Bran go back in time and help build the original wall?

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1 hour ago, Lizard King said:

I've now spent hours reading this wiki already. It's addicting. 

Just one link to the next, to the next.

It's brilliant in it's depth.

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14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think we're about to get a pretty heavy dose of Dorne. What I imagine plays out now is this:

1. Euron delivers the Sand Queen to Cersei.

2. Cersei goes through the whole thing about getting revenge for Myrcella.

3. Instead of killing Sand Queen, Cersei talks her into aligning the Dorne army with the Lannisters. 

4. We all go to Dorne.

The actor who plays Euron is quoted as saying he is going to make Ramsay look like a child.

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22 hours ago, whodeawhodat said:

IDK, i think a lot has been accomplished thus far this season.  Sides are lining up for the showdown all the while, the larger enemy looms.  That would be my only criticism, wtf are the white walkers doing all of these months?  Seems like they are waiting for the other side of the wall to get their sh*t together.  If they are waiting for the long winter, it is already snowing in the north so they could at least decimate that part of the 7 kingdoms.

Cercie has 3 kingdoms(including her own) now aligned with her while Khalessi has 2 (including her own). To me the rest are undecided and to me that is the "story".  Who will sit atop the iron throne.  Everything else is prologue to that.  Characters push toward that end. If you are tired of littlefinger, sh*t.... he is just biding his time imo.  there are 2 wars coming, no reason to reach to push an agenda now when things could be upside down in a short while.  Even if he somehow was able to court the stark girl and unify the north and aerie as king of those 2 realms, he still needs to conquer cersie and slay the whitewalkers while remaining in power.  better to let others handle that, save his strength for the big prize.

 

I've liked the show for the most part.  

Tyrion is an administrator, and Khaleesi has never fought a full on war, and now they are getting their butts kicked.   Queen of Thorns and Jaime?  Great scene.   Tyrion and Jon, great scene. 

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6 minutes ago, JiF said:

haha - Brienne doesnt seem to lie too often.  Davos is quickly becoming one of my favs.  "This is...Jon Snow" - that was so good.  His delivery was perfect. 

I love how for the past 2 season he's been dropping, "a wise man once said" and he's totally referring to himself.  He's a phenomenal actor.

Then Danny calls him on it.  

He's like, "I would never do that to you...."    

The sand snakes were awful, but so many really great performances on this show.  I mean, before this show, I knew him as the angry dwarf from Elf.

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If anyone didn't like tonight's episode, they need to just never watch this show again, and should never comment here again.  Just go watch Golden Girls and pull a Theon with your nuts.

Arya and the guards, cool.   Arya telling Sansa she has a list, and laughing it off, nice.   Bran saying she has a list, and Sansa realizing she wasn't kidding, real nice.  Arya fighting Brienne, awesome.   Jon talking with Khaleesi, nice scene.  

Oh, and the freaking battle was damn cool.   The look when the dragons showed up, men just turning to ash.   Wow.

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