GAME OF THRONES (*SPOILERS ALERT*)

[nycdan]

So changing subject a little, I love the interchange between Sansa and Tyrion in the crypt.  The connection between them is so bizarre, but it works.  Tyrion hasn't really been himself yet this season but this was finally a glimpse of the old Tyrion.

"[Out of all my husbands,] you were the best of them."
"What a terrifying thought"

 

 

[JustInFudge]

13 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

The Hound.

I think you’re trying too hard to have an issue with this. It’s cool. Rant away.

It wasnt just the Hound.  Sam showed horror and then he was saved.  Dany was clearly scared out of her mind when the Night King survived her flames.  Jon showed fear.  Arya was terrified and even had a high pitch scream.  Jorah looked defeated after the Dothraki were eliminated.  Sansa and Tyrion were hiding behind a coffin.  You had 3 people basically commit suicide; Theon, Beric and Lady Lyanna. 

Silly talk. 

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

It wasnt just the Hound.  Sam showed horror and then he was saved.  Dany was clearly scared out of her mind when the Night King survived her flames.  Jon showed fear.  Arya was terrified and even had a high pitch scream.  Jorah looked defeated after the Dothraki were eliminated.  Sansa and Tyrion were hiding behind a coffin.  You had 3 people basically commit suicide; Theon, Beric and Lady Lyanna. 

Silly talk. 

Yep. Wife and I thought Sansa and Tyrion might off themselves. Or were thinking it.

[greenwichjetfan]

7 minutes ago, JiF said:

I was being silly, I dont actually think you're a bozo for having an opinion on a show about dead people and dragons.

I didnt see anything wrong with what they presented last night?  What did not make sense?  How did the show lose it's integrity? I'm confused. 

Again, it wasn't a real complaint, and I'm not saying the show lost it's integrity. I'm just saying it should be ok to question something even though it has to do with a show about dragons and vagina killings. As to my little annoyance:

2 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I love Arya and her entire story line and have no problem with her killing the NK. In fact, the moment she ran out of the castle after saying “not today” to death, I yelled out that Arya was running to kill the NK (my wife was adamant that I was wrong and that it would be Jon). Anyway, my only issue is that the NK was fully surrounded by wights and walkers in a completely open space outdoors, and none of them saw Arya till she reached him? The wights were shown earlier in the episode to be able to detect blood and sound (library scene), and the NK was fully aware that Jon was following him from far away - yet both of these things were suspended when Arya ran past all of the wights and walkers undetected, and the NK didn’t suspect Arya until she was right behind him when she screamed? I just wish the circumstances were a little different. Also was odd that the walkers literally had no part in the entire 82 min episode.

All that said though, the episode delivered. It was fun, chaotic, and had a really fun end. Just the little things were generally not up to GoT standards in my opinion.

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

Yep. Wife and I thought Sansa and Tyrion might off themselves. Or were thinking it.

I wasnt sure what was going to happen there.  First I thought, oh sh*t, Sansa is going to go fight.  Then I thought, wait, is she telling Tyrion to get his out there and fight?  And then I thought some Romeo and Juliet sh*t, especially after her husband comment.  And then I was just lost.  lol

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

Yep. Wife and I thought Sansa and Tyrion might off themselves. Or were thinking it.

If you watch it again, check out the look Tyrion gives her when she pulls the knife out--imo he thinks she's going to kill herself at first, then she looks at him and he figures it out. Just great acting with their faces. 

[greenwichjetfan]

8 minutes ago, nycdan said:

So changing subject a little, I love the interchange between Sansa and Tyrion in the crypt.  The connection between them is so bizarre, but it works.  Tyrion hasn't really been himself yet this season but this was finally a glimpse of the old Tyrion.

"[Out of all my husbands,] you were the best of them."
"What a terrifying thought"

 

 

I didn't know what was going on and my head was spinning anyway, but I swear I thought they were holding hands to commit suicide. Fantastic scene.

[ZachEY]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Isn't that Jon's deal, though? That he's supposed to be dumb? 

They didn’t say you know everything, Jon Snow.  Right!?!?

[nycdan]

9 minutes ago, JiF said:

It wasnt just the Hound.  Sam showed horror and then he was saved.  Dany was clearly scared out of her mind when the Night King survived her flames.  Jon showed fear.  Arya was terrified and even had a high pitch scream.  Jorah looked defeated after the Dothraki were eliminated.  Sansa and Tyrion were hiding behind a coffin.  You had 3 people basically commit suicide; Theon, Beric and Lady Lyanna. 

Silly talk. 

The only character I can think of that didn't show overwhelming fear or horror was Lyanna Mormont.  She was a steely-eyed bad-ass right to the end.  People can hate on it all they want.  I loved it.

[greenwichjetfan]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What are your thoughts on The Night King? There's rampant speculation that he's a Stark or Targaryen, but the book people are dug in that he's just one of the First Men that the tree kids created and any attempt to retroactively make him a Stark or a Targaryen is bullsh*t

He's definitely just one of the First Men. I enjoyed reading some of the fan theories after episode 1 of this year talking about him being related to a Stark. Some were super well thought out and researched. The Targaryen one I find to be too far fetched. Being able to ride a dragon had more to do with the fact that the dragon was no longer a dragon, but was indeed a wight at that point. And the surviving fire bit - i don't know. The rules are iffy on that. Jon burned his hand on the lantern in season 1 or 2 when he killed the first wight the show ever saw up at the Night's Watch, but he's a Targaryen. Again - going back to my complaints, if GRRM had books available for D&D to basically translate to the screen, I don't think we would have seen the NK survive the fire. I think the show just put that in as a "gotchya" to the general show watching crowd.

[Peace Frog]

I know someone mentioned it a few pages back, can't find it but Ayra sneaking up on the Night King in the exact same spot where Jon was standing last week, dumbfoundingly asking her "how did you sneak up on me" was a GREAT Easter Egg.

Apparently she had a plan.  

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Again, it wasn't a real complaint, and I'm not saying the show lost it's integrity. I'm just saying it should be ok to question something even though it has to do with a show about dragons and vagina killings. As to my little annoyance:

I've questioned the show plenty.  I've complained about the show plenty,  I'm not saying because it's fantasy that there shouldnt be continuity and accountability to holding the stories together and "believable".  I just didnt see a problem with last night's at all.

They've been building up the Arya's ability to sneak up on people for a while.  Remember when she met Snow for the first time again at the tree?  Jon said, - "how did you sneak up on me".  She did it to Sansa too while she was sifting through her faces.  She did it Littlefinger, etc.  And if you recall from last night, one of the White Walkers did feel a breeze in his hair and look to his right seconds before Arya leaped at the NK.

I do agree, it was strange they werent featured but when you have an army of millions of dead people and a dragon fighting for you, I can see why maybe they didnt put themselves in harms way, especially if losing on of them means a good portion of the army dies too.

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

He's definitely just one of the First Men. I enjoyed reading some of the fan theories after episode 1 of this year talking about him being related to a Stark. Some were super well thought out and researched. The Targaryen one I find to be too far fetched. Being able to ride a dragon had more to do with the fact that the dragon was no longer a dragon, but was indeed a wight at that point. And the surviving fire bit - i don't know. The rules are iffy on that. Jon burned his hand on the lantern in season 1 or 2 when he killed the first wight the show ever saw up at the Night's Watch, but he's a Targaryen. Again - going back to my complaints, if GRRM had books available for D&D to basically translate to the screen, I don't think we would have seen the NK survive the fire. I think the show just put that in as a "gotchya" to the general show watching crowd.

Didnt Dany's brother dying from the melted iron or whatever mean that not all Targaryen's are "unburnt".  

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

I’m wondering too. It is a huge step down to go back to Cersei vs The Allies. It just doesn’t carry the same threat or significance, a point the show has gone lengths to drive home.

They introduced time travel with Hold The Door. Seems a huge thing to introduce just to explain a character’s name. Was expecting them to go back to that at some point.

My issue with Cersei vs. Allies now is that there’s a bit of the Indiana Jones thing going on - where you realize he’s completely irrelevant to the plot of the movie.  What did the NK actually do for this story besides weaken Daneryas enough to make it a fairer fight vs. Cersei?  Hoping as Shane states, there’s more too it than just ending here.

[Irish Jet]

30 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I know plenty of actual strong women that don’t seem to have an issue with these characters. I’m sure they’d love you to mansplain why these strong women are not really strong women though.

I never said they weren’t strong – Just that D&D have a very warped version of what strength is and how to bring it across – It has to be blunt and in your face. These characters were created, introduced  and for years portrayed as the GRRM Characters – It’s only in the last few years where D&D have taken over and the shift in how they’re portrayed is pretty obvious. ASOIAF has feminist themes all over which are effectively brought across. The last few seasons of GOT have desperately tried to bring these themes across but have instead created caricature’s of what the characters were. 

Dany, Arya, Sansa, Lyanna, Brienne – They’re just not grounded in reality. Always completely sure of themselves to farcical levels with little to no justification. Always dropping one liners, particularly to emasculate those around them. Their actions are inconsequential – They can feed people to dogs, commit genocide, burn people by the thousands – It’s empowering without any sense of guilt or trauma, without any effect on their psyche - Just on to the next. Nothing relatable. Arya is essentially a monster at this point and they can’t seem to decide if she’s a loving sister or a cold hearted murderer from scene to scene. 

Contrast that to the portrayal of Catelyn, who escaped the post GRRM era. She was constantly anxious, afraid and shown to be vulnerable time and again. Overcoming and acting in face of those fears are what made her admirable – What demonstrated her strength. D&D have literally no idea how to portray that – It has to be strength, power, badass etc. with no nuance. Compare Cat’s reaction to Rickon/Bran being “killed” to Rickon actually being killed. They wouldn’t dare undermine Sansa or Arya’s strength so they don’t even bring him up - Vulnerability bad. They did a slightly better job with Arya this episode but last season was just some unbearable bullsh*t. 

Ironically they do give Cersei more vulnerable moments because to them that is a negative trait. In spite of her inhumane features she’s actually still quite relatable – More so than the protagonists IMO. 
 

[nycdan]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

Didnt Dany's brother dying from the melted iron or whatever mean that not all Targaryen's are "unburnt".  

GRRM stated in an interview that Targaryens are NOT immune to fire.  The scene with Dany was a special case related to the dragon's birth.  I don't pretend to understand the details but he actually used her brother as the example to prove it wasn't a bloodline thing.

[Jet_Engine1]

42 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

WHAT DO WE SAY TO THE GOD OF BLOGS

Not today, edgelord!

[greenwichjetfan]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

I've questioned the show plenty.  I've complained about the show plenty,  I'm not saying because it's fantasy that there shouldnt be continuity and accountability to holding the stories together and "believable".  I just didnt see a problem with last night's at all.

They've been building up the Arya's ability to sneak up on people for a while.  Remember when she met Snow for the first time again at the tree?  Jon said, - "how did you sneak up on me".  She did it to Sansa too while she was sifting through her faces.  She did it Littlefinger, etc.  And if you recall from last night, one of the White Walkers did feel a breeze in his hair and look to his right seconds before Arya leaped at the NK.

I do agree, it was strange they werent featured but when you have an army of millions of dead people and a dragon fighting for you, I can see why maybe they didnt put themselves in harms way, especially if losing on of them means a good portion of the army dies too.

For sure - and again it was more of an annoyance than a complaint. I found it to be a bit much, but it's also not impossible for me to see Arya ninja her way there given her background.

In general I'm not a zombie guy. Didn't care for TWD, and I have posts in this thread dating back to like season 5 about how I thought the dead plotline was the second weakest in GoT after Dorne. Still, for whatever reason I was really pulled into the NK and the White Walkers over the past few seasons, so the fact that the Walkers weren't featured was a bit of a let down - especially after the final shot of last week's episode when they showed the Walkers lining up at the wall. At least we got a full helping of the NK though!

[Jet_Engine1]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

We know from a glimpse of the previews that Drogon and Rhagal both survived the battle last night.  No matter how many ships and troops the Lannister army and its allies have, I don't think they have a chance against two dragons without the ballista they used a few seasons ago (and I think they were all destroyed).  The show will manufacture some way that it's more of a fair fight just to be dramatic but let's be real for a moment....dragons > everything else.

Strategically, the plan should be to pin Cersei's army in Kings Landing, destroy her outlying forces piecemeal, and send Arya in to kill her.

 

1. Burn the Iron Fleet, cutting off retreat

2. Send Jamie to the Lannister Troops. They'll rally to him, they gives no ****s about the Queen.

3. Incinerate food sources near the besieged city.

 

I also think were going to be seeing 'ol Daario show up with something to do with the Golden Company.....

[greenwichjetfan]

1 minute ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Strategically, the plan should be to pin Cersei's army in Kings Landing, destroy her outlying forces piecemeal, and send Arya in to kill her.

 

1. Burn the Iron Fleet, cutting off retreat

2. Send Jamie to the Lannister Troops. They'll rally to him, they gives no ****s about the Queen.

3. Incinerate food sources near the besieged city.

 

I also think were going to be seeing 'ol Daario show up with something to do with the Golden Company.....

Bronne's still out there with a case full of gold owed to him for offing the Lannister bros. Will be excited to see his return and how that plays out (we all know he's not going to kill either of them)

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

I never said they weren’t strong – Just that D&D have a very warped version of what strength is and how to bring it across – It has to be blunt and in your face. These characters were created, introduced  and for years portrayed as the GRRM Characters – It’s only in the last few years where D&D have taken over and the shift in how they’re portrayed is pretty obvious. ASOIAF has feminist themes all over which are effectively brought across. The last few seasons of GOT have desperately tried to bring these themes across but have instead created caricature’s of what the characters were. 

Dany, Arya, Sansa, Lyanna, Brienne – They’re just not grounded in reality. Always completely sure of themselves to farcical levels with little to no justification. Always dropping one liners, particularly to emasculate those around them. Their actions are inconsequential – They can feed people to dogs, commit genocide, burn people by the thousands – It’s empowering without any sense of guilt or trauma, without any effect on their psyche - Just on to the next. Nothing relatable. Arya is essentially a monster at this point and they can’t seem to decide if she’s a loving sister or a cold hearted murderer from scene to scene. 

Contrast that to the portrayal of Catelyn, who escaped the post GRRM era. She was constantly anxious, afraid and shown to be vulnerable time and again. Overcoming and acting in face of those fears are what made her admirable – What demonstrated her strength. D&D have literally no idea how to portray that – It has to be strength, power, badass etc. with no nuance. Compare Cat’s reaction to Rickon/Bran being “killed” to Rickon actually being killed. They wouldn’t dare undermine Sansa or Arya’s strength so they don’t even bring him up - Vulnerability bad. They did a slightly better job with Arya this episode but last season was just some unbearable bullsh*t. 

Ironically they do give Cersei more vulnerable moments because to them that is a negative trait. In spite of her inhumane features she’s actually still quite relatable – More so than the protagonists IMO. 
 

Do you not remember the first 5 season of this show and what most of those woman went through?  Sansa and Dany were sold as whores.  Arya was kidnapped and basically was being held ransom for the first 3 seasons.  I think Cersi has been through probably more than anyone 1 person on the show.   You're operating as though the personalities they display in the show now are how they've always been and that couldnt be further from the truth. 

[Jet_Engine1]

50 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I know plenty of actual strong women that don’t seem to have an issue with these characters. I’m sure they’d love you to mansplain why these strong women are not really strong women though.

Are they powerlifters? They're cool!

[nycdan]

There's one character I would love to see play a part in the events to come. Jaqen - the faceless man who trained Arya.  One of the coolest characters on the canvas and with GoT, if you I don't recall if we know his fate.  That sequence with Arya was one of my favorite stretches of the whole show.  I'd love to see him show up in some unexpected way (how else would he).  

 

 

[HawkeyeJet]

Cersei vs the Allies will be a lot more interesting when it's Jamie that ends up killing her.

[T0mShane]

15 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Strategically, the plan should be to pin Cersei's army in Kings Landing, destroy her outlying forces piecemeal, and send Arya in to kill her.

 

1. Burn the Iron Fleet, cutting off retreat

2. Send Jamie to the Lannister Troops. They'll rally to him, they gives no ****s about the Queen.

3. Incinerate food sources near the besieged city.

 

I also think were going to be seeing 'ol Daario show up with something to do with the Golden Company.....

Hopefully it’s the good looking Ed Skrein Daario and not the American guy with the Jersey accent 

[Klecko73isGod]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Hopefully it’s the good looking Ed Skrein Daario and not the American guy with the Jersey accent 

Hey, yous guys tink we can kill the Lannista bitch? 

[Integrity28]

46 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

I never said they weren’t strong – Just that D&D have a very warped version of what strength is and how to bring it across – It has to be blunt and in your face. These characters were created, introduced  and for years portrayed as the GRRM Characters – It’s only in the last few years where D&D have taken over and the shift in how they’re portrayed is pretty obvious. ASOIAF has feminist themes all over which are effectively brought across. The last few seasons of GOT have desperately tried to bring these themes across but have instead created caricature’s of what the characters were. 

Dany, Arya, Sansa, Lyanna, Brienne – They’re just not grounded in reality. Always completely sure of themselves to farcical levels with little to no justification. Always dropping one liners, particularly to emasculate those around them. Their actions are inconsequential – They can feed people to dogs, commit genocide, burn people by the thousands – It’s empowering without any sense of guilt or trauma, without any effect on their psyche - Just on to the next. Nothing relatable. Arya is essentially a monster at this point and they can’t seem to decide if she’s a loving sister or a cold hearted murderer from scene to scene. 

Contrast that to the portrayal of Catelyn, who escaped the post GRRM era. She was constantly anxious, afraid and shown to be vulnerable time and again. Overcoming and acting in face of those fears are what made her admirable – What demonstrated her strength. D&D have literally no idea how to portray that – It has to be strength, power, badass etc. with no nuance. Compare Cat’s reaction to Rickon/Bran being “killed” to Rickon actually being killed. They wouldn’t dare undermine Sansa or Arya’s strength so they don’t even bring him up - Vulnerability bad. They did a slightly better job with Arya this episode but last season was just some unbearable bullsh*t. 

Ironically they do give Cersei more vulnerable moments because to them that is a negative trait. In spite of her inhumane features she’s actually still quite relatable – More so than the protagonists IMO. 
 

tl;dr

they are warriors and aspiring conquerors/royalty

no idea wtf you are talking about

[Irish Jet]

6 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

tl;dr

they are warriors and aspiring conquerors/royalty

no idea wtf you are talking about

Maybe one of your strong female friends can explain?

[T0mShane]

52 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

never said they weren’t strong – Just that D&D have a very warped version of what strength is and how to bring it across – It has to be blunt and in your face. These characters were created, introduced  and for years portrayed as the GRRM C

Writing strong female characters is hard for everyone because it’s not a culturally defined thing the way the traditional strong male character is. You can assign male characteristics to a female character and it becomes a one-dimensional butch lesbian, or you can try and maintain some level of femininity and turn them into nymphomaniacs. Writers who are female say it’s hard to write strong female leads because you’re writing for an audience that doesn’t know what it looks like anyway 

[Integrity28]

17 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Maybe one of your strong female friends can explain?

Probably not, they aren’t used to the levels of estrogen you’re pumping out.

[Spoot-Face]

14 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Ridiculous plot armour to major characters. Just nonsensical that Sam’s just lying there stabbing people.

Wolverine flying in for the kill because she can. Absurd plot - Why was Bran even there? What was he doing? 

Literally the entire theme of the show being that the “game of thrones” is a distraction to the apocalyptic threat and yet, apparently not. 

Garbage. 

lol

Sounds like you really don't understand the show.

How about we get a woman to explain it to you?

[Irish Jet]

1 minute ago, Spoot-Face said:

lol

Sounds like you really don't understand the show.

How about we get a woman to explain it to you?

I don’t talk to women.

[Spoot-Face]

Okay, Arya may not kill Cersei, but she's definitely gonna kill The Mountain.

That scene with her killing deadies with that staff? Flashbacks to Oberyn. Even that armor she was wearing looked exactly like the armor Oberyn wore when he dueled The Mountain.

I don't usually make predictions about this show, but that's mine.

[Spoot-Face]

Just now, Irish Jet said:

I don’t talk to women.

You mean, they don't talk to you.

[Irish Jet]

3 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

You mean, they don't talk to you.

We have a mutual understanding.

4 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Okay, Arya may not kill Cersei, but she's definitely gonna kill The Mountain.

That scene with her killing deadies with that staff? Flashbacks to Oberyn. Even that armor she was wearing looked exactly like the armor Oberyn wore when he dueled The Mountain.

I don't usually make predictions about this show, but that's mine.

Do you even Cleganebowl brah?