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GAME OF THRONES (*SPOILERS ALERT*)

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46 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Books. Not show. 

It's been to long, I get them confused.

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5 hours ago, JiF said:

A few more thoughts;

Jamie's character arch has been outstanding and more involved than any character I can think of in any show I've ever watched.  I literally wanted to jump through the screen and beat his face in last night.  That dude, is killing that role.  He's been incredible.  Between him, Tywin, Tyrion and Cersi - I think the Lannister might be the best actors in the entire series.  Runner up; Jorah, he was amazing and saved 90% of those terrible Dany scenes and her miserable acting. 

It warmed my heart to see the Hound and Arya back on the road again.  If there was a favorite time over the entirety of the show; it was when they were riding together.  That dynamic was amazing.  My favorite scene still till this day; is when the Hound arrives at her Aunts Castle only to find out she's been killed and Arya just starts cracking up laughing. 

I called the Varys and Dany scene.  New it was coming.  New when she asked him for his council that this day would come.  The Red Witch said he'd die in Westeros.  She never mentioned when and now he's employed someone to kill her?  This might be the most intriguing story line left in the show.  Do we see Varys die or does he survive?  Who kills Dany? 

 

I LOVED Tywin.   That guy was amazing.  

I think Arya kills Dany.

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15 minutes ago, JiF said:

Did the book prophecy include the rest of what we heard on the show?  Because on the show, it specifically said she'd have 3 children.  I'm starting to think Cersei is lying about the child. 

Trying to remember

She'd die by the little brother.   She always took that to be Tyrion, but she is actually older than Jaime by 10 minutes or so.  Also, she would be usurped by one younger and prettier than her.  She took that to meam Marg Tyrell, but it could be Dany or Sansa.

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2 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

I didn't read the books so I don't know the technicalities with the exact prophecy there.  In the show, I believe she asks how many children she will have "with the king" and the witch tells her that the king will have many but she will only have three.  In the show the witch doesn't tell her she would be strangled by the "valanqor", that's only in the books.

Here's the thing though.  Even with the prophecy, the show doesn't actually follow it. 

Even though technically Joffrey, Marcella and Tommen were not the king's children, it was pretty clear that's who the witch was referring to, because she also says something about having gold crowns (which I always interpreted to mean golden hair).  But, in the show (not sure about the books) Cersei did have one child that was actually Robert's.  Way back in season 1 when Cersei is still in Winterfell, after Bran has been pushed, Cersei talks to Catelyn and tells her the story about her first child with Robert (black hair) that died of a fever shortly after birth.

So even in the show, Cersei has already had 4 children...if she is indeed pregnant, this will be her 5th child.

I thought that was a mis carriage.

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Cersei: When will I wed the prince?

Maggy: Never. You will wed the king.
Cersei: I will be queen, though?

Maggy: Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.[1]

 

—Maggy in the dream of Cersei Lannister

Cersei: Will the king and I have children?
Maggy: Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.[1]

—Maggy in the dream of Cersei Lannister

Melara: Will I marry Jaime?
Maggy: Not Jaime, nor any other man, Worms will have your maidenhead. Your death is here tonight, little one. Can you smell her breath? She is very close.[1]

—Maggy and Melara Hetherspoon in the dream of Cersei Lannister
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23 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

I guess that all depends on your point of view.  From Dany's point of view, Gendry has no claim even if he was a true-born son of Robert.

Dany's whole point is that the throne was wrongfully taken from her family, so only a Targaryen would have a true right to the throne.

It is my understanding (a book reader will have to confirm) that when Aegon conquered Westeros hundreds of years before the show, there was no one ruler of the seven kingdoms.  All of the different areas of Westeros were independent and under separate rule.  When Aegon conquered them all, he united them under one throne.  So, in Dany's mind, the Seven Kingdoms together as one relm can only belong to a Targaryen.

 

Correct.   He unified them all.

The north was the last, and the Starks kind of rediculed the last King of the North, calling him the "King that knelt".  His defense was, "They showed up with 3 freaking dragons, I could kneel, or they could burn everything within 500 miles."

A lot of the show is point of view.   There are no real "Good guys".   A few truly evil, but mainly point of view.   I have always said, Tywin would have been the best ruler.   He was ruthless, so no one challenged him.  He was a great leader and manager, the land would have prospered.  Everything he did was to protect his family, no different than what Arya and Sansa are doing now.

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20 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

I don't know for sure whether or not Dany will survive through the end of the show, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if she dies, possibly this weekend since for most seasons all of the "big" things happen the next to last episode.

I have an educated guess as to why I think this, but won't repeat it here so as to not potentially spoil things that haven't been on the show yet.

 

I think she dies in the final episode.  I would not be shocked if Arya kills her.

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51 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Maybe I'm misremembering things, but I always interpreted his dickishness as more of a necessity than his actual personality, because his children and grandchildren and other family members were constantly acting like morons. Had Cersei been the person then that she is now he probably would backed off.

That is true.   He also grew up with everyone laughing at his family and his father, who was a weak man.  He took over, and transformed his house into a power.   He was also the hand of the king to the Mad King for a long time, and basically ran the kingdom. 

He said, in the show, he did things always to enhance the family, keep the family strong.  By being ruthless, no one would oppose him, so in the long run he actually would do less fighting, and less lives would be lost.

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1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

This is maybe the thing I have always enjoyed most about the show. No true heroes, but definitely a few true villains. And when the show wants to create the latter, they really go after it. Joffrey, Ramsay, Euron...when they go after it, they are ruthless.

Then the borderline ones, Aliser, Roose, even the High Sparrow, you could always understand where they were coming from.

I really never considered Tywin an antagonist. Jamie maybe, Cersei probably, but Tywin always had a Ned Start-esque quality about him. Difference obviously being he refused to buy into Ned's naivety, but I'm not so sure that makes him a villain.

Roose was ruthless, but he was loyal to Rob Stark until Rob started acting like an idiot, going back on his word, and marrying someone after being promised to someone else.  That was why the North lost, and why house Frey turned on them.

High Sparrow was a religious zealot who took offense to his Queen having illegitimate kids with her twin brother. 

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1 hour ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Was he? His own son killed him. Doesn't sound like a great ruler to me. 

What is your definition of a great ruler?

If he ran the kingdom, the debt would be repaid, there would be peace among the houses, and general safety for the people.  I never said he was a good father, or that he wasn't a hypocrit when it came to Tyrion's whore.

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Just now, Integrity28 said:

Would people ‘run thru walls’ for him? 

He does not have the "intangibles"

He does have the money to hire people to throw people thru walls.

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59 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

SHE HAD A NAME, ROB!!

Spell it without google.

Since I can't, I label her.    Cause I'm a dirty, horrible man who stinks with names.  

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17 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Sure, but he's living in a world where all political and cultural ambitions are rooted in gratuitous violence too. So there's a basis for him believing religious goals should be couched in the same norms.

Oh, I totally agree with what you were saying.   Now, after he started getting some power, I'm sure he liked it and wanted more.   He also probably believed that his rule would be the best thing for the people.

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28 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Shae, as in: Shae would have taken all of my money.

You are truly, a better man than me.

She was an excellent character. 

 

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12 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

There is a scene or two during that arc where he’s cursing out other Lannisters for doing bad work. I think he had a real Teddy Roosevelt vibe to him and that’s why viewers, especially dudes, dug him so much. Ned too, now that I think about it. 

You see him in the deleted scene fishing, getting his own dinner.   Or after he went hunting, talking to Jaime while skinning the animal he took down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47MazYDnmaU

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3 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I always loved that scene where he's skinning the deer. In hindsight a Lannister butchering a stag (Baratheon) was some awesome foreshadowing.

I remember an interview with Charles Dance from a while back where he explained that the deer was real and that he did that all in one take, despite having no experience and only being told how to do it by a butcher on set. Afterwards the cast and crew feasted on venison.

Yeah, he did it all in 1 take, after being shown for literally a few minutes how to do it.   That guy is an amazing actor, there are no bad scenes with him.  

Tywin and Arya were great, Tywin putting his pyscho grand king to bed was great.  

 

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11 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Also ...

1 dragon killed by 3 consecutive scorpion shots.

1 dragon destroys entire fleet of ships and castles with scorpions. Dodged every shot.

C’mon. Even though it’s fantasy it doesn’t have to be stupid writing.

That was really, really bad.

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4 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Why not just kill Jon?

The whole northern army would immediately turn on her.   She could take them out, but it would further deplete her armies.

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

they saved $30,000 dollars by lopping an ear off of Ghost 

 

My other favorite moment of the finale was when Bronn "the master of coin" was prioritizing brothel reconstruction 

Bronn 2020 the people's choice 

Bronn is the master of coin.  I realize it's fantasy, but "Let's make the guy who can't read or write, and probably can't do numbers in charge of all of our money."  Cause you know, they have to rebuild the entire capital.

I'm late, but my thoughts.

Drogon, that was fine, what else could they have done with that.   Dragons are smart (more in some of George's books), and that reaction actually goes with what they may do.   

After years of buildup, Cersei dies from a brick, and Danny gets stabbed by Jon while kissing him.   I just thought they could have done more than that. 

Offers the Unsullied land, "Start your own house."   All they know how to do is fight, and they have no balls (literally).   What kind of house are they going to start?  OK, they are all going to leave with the horse guys.  On what ships, they all burned.   Even Queen Grey Joy only had a couple of ships.  

We will make a King with no heirs.   That's great, as soon as he dies you are starting a new Civil War, because there is no way the rebuilding houses are going to agree on a new king. 

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9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Pretty fitting that the last episode included a  labored speech from Tyrion about storytelling, followed by them arbitrarily deciding the most two-dimensional character of the last three seasons gets to win for no real reason/,

That was bad.

Who has the best story?   How about, the guy who was born of a secret love, actually isn't a bastard but is the true heir to the throne.   Grew up a bastard, learned humility, went to serve on the wall, became Lord Commander of the wall, was murdered, came back from the dead, made peace with the Free Folk.    Then united the kingdom to fight the undead, then helped lead the fight to kill Cersie, then had to kill the woman who blew up King's Landing.

That seems like a good story.

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5 hours ago, bitonti said:

this is where the story goes south 

you can't have a monarchy held by a queenslayer. it shows disrespect for the office

this isn't Rome 

Well, he did screw her 1st, and she was his aunt.   That makes a good story right there.

(again, maybe Rome)

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