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Kiper's 3 Round Mock for Jets as GM


prime21

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Hey everybody... Just found this place, I had been an occasional poster on JetsInsider, but that place sucks all of the sudden, not sure what happened.  Glad to be here.  As for this topic, My Top 4 picks for the Jets are:

 

RD1 - Amari Cooper - I take him over White

RD2 - Eli Harold - I'm a fan of him at OLB

RD3 - Duke Johnson - We need a RB that can block and catch

RD4 - Gerod Holliman - played alongside Pryor in college and I'm not sold on Gilchrist at FS

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I think the argument is getting skewed. QB's taken after the second round are rarely expected to be starters. Once in a while a team gets lucky, or an unforeseen injury catapults a back up into starter status and he thrives. If the Jets are looking to improve their depth at QB (i.e., improving on Simms) they are perfectly okay to draft a guy like Mannion in the 4th (they have no 5th) or, if they see some NFL level talent, a Grayson or Garrett. If they are looking to land Russell Wilson, the odds against that are indeed incredible, Brady? wildly improbable. Those are almost of the nature of miracle picks. Because QB's always get relatively higher valuation, almost any QB with a modicum of talent will go higher that other positions. That's the nature of the beast.

The same argument can be made for any position though no?  You hope the 6th round LB can be a starter one day but the odds are not great.  My issue is not with the logical thought that if you want a fracnhise guy it is best to get one early.  My beef is saying 'oh never take a QB after round 1 because they never work out.' when they do indeed work out at times and you can make the same comment for any position.

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The same argument can be made for any position though no?  You hope the 6th round LB can be a starter one day but the odds are not great.  My issue is not with the logical thought that if you want a fracnhise guy it is best to get one early.  My beef is saying 'oh never take a QB after round 1 because they never work out.' when they do indeed work out at times and you can make the same comment for any position.

Yes, I'm agreeing with you. The key is whether you see a team going for a starter or a capable back-up. Plenty of solid journeyman QB's to be found from 2 on down. Often even in the first round. Elite QB's are rare.

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Hey everybody... Just found this place, I had been an occasional poster on JetsInsider, but that place sucks all of the sudden, not sure what happened.  Glad to be here.  As for this topic, My Top 4 picks for the Jets are:

 

RD1 - Amari Cooper - I take him over White

RD2 - Eli Harold - I'm a fan of him at OLB

RD3 - Duke Johnson - We need a RB that can block and catch

RD4 - Gerod Holliman - played alongside Pryor in college and I'm not sold on Gilchrist at FS

 

Welcome Jim.  This site is very active....enjoy.  That's a pretty good mock IMO.  The Jets may reach for a QB anywhere from 2-4 but I would love Duke in this offense.

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Welcome Jim.  This site is very active....enjoy.  That's a pretty good mock IMO.  The Jets may reach for a QB anywhere from 2-4 but I would love Duke in this offense.

Thanks Prime... glad to be here... I need my Jets talk... especially living in Charlotte.. 

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This is not really a fair discussion because we KNOW the guys i listed are good and unless you made these evaluations of them all before hand it's not a proper comparison.  I'll say one thing, if you never draft a 'developmental' Qb after round one you will never find one of these after round one gems.

 

Except before the draft Wilson was in, it was frequently stated that if he was 5 inches taller he'd be a top 5 pick. Problem is, the guys outside of Mariota and Winston are not worth drafting in this class.

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Thanks Prime... glad to be here... I need my Jets talk... especially living in Charlotte.. 

 

I was a member of Jets Insider.  I didn't post much but when I finally had something to say no one was around.  If a tree falls in the forest.......

 

Stumbled onto this site and love it.  These guys post often and will debate the crap out of you if they disagree.  All in fun...I think. :winking0001:

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Utter nonsense, once again a response WAY over the top, if you made lotto odds much much much more reasonable your point would have any weight.

Also this thought that taking QB's is a wasted pick vs any other position is bizarre. ALL positions bust, your odds of getting starters or good back ups increase the higher you pick them.

This is especially ridiculous considering the importance of the position. It's a horrible crime to throw away a pick on a late round Qb but it's just fine to draft some jag Wr, ot, TE, dlineman.

There have also been a LOT of 1st round Qb busts. So the question is where do you get your QB from? Andrew Lucks come around once every 10 years.

I think you misunderstand me. I fully recognize the importance of the position. In fact, I would trade up to #3 or #4 for Mariota to ensure getting him if he slides by TEN. A real prospect.. I would not, however, waste my time with Hundley, Grayson (Colo st. Is my alma mater btw)... or any other of the "projects." Mariota's odds of success is miles better than any of them.

Every year these 3rd-5th rd prospects are there with different strengths and weaknesses... and every year the VAST majority of them are varying degrees of crap.

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I was a member of Jets Insider.  I didn't post much but when I finally had something to say no one was around.  If a tree falls in the forest.......

 

Stumbled onto this site and love it.  These guys post often and will debate the crap out of you if they disagree.  All in fun...I think. :winking0001:

I recognize some of the user names and they were the most active on JI, so I feel I have found the right place...

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Except before the draft Wilson was in, it was frequently stated that if he was 5 inches taller he'd be a top 5 pick. Problem is, the guys outside of Mariota and Winston are not worth drafting in this class.

Not worth drafting high, someone will take them though.  In any case most of my responses have been to the one poster who put out there that it is not worth drafting a Qb outside of round one, as in ever.

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I think you misunderstand me. I fully recognize the importance of the position. In fact, I would trade up to #3 or #4 for Mariota to ensure getting him if he slides by TEN. A real prospect.. I would not, however, waste my time with Hundley, Grayson (Colo st. Is my alma mater btw)... or any other of the "projects." Mariota's odds of success is miles better than any of them.

Every year these 3rd-5th rd prospects are there with different strengths and weaknesses... and every year the VAST majority of them are varying degrees of crap.

Well I wouldn't trade up for Winston or Mariota.  Neither are franchise guys in my mind.  No argument that the vast majority of them care crap, just like the Vlad Ducasses of the world are crap.  When you have a long time 3rd stringer that will never be an NFL Qb of note then why not use a later round pick on a QB.  No more of a risk than taking a later round guard or LB etc.    In any case our argument has run its course and we all know where we stand on the subject.

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Ugh.... No.

Wilson falls into the exceedingly rare fluke category.

Rodgers was a 1st rd pick who some though should have been taken #1 overall. The fact that he sat behind Favre for years does not mean he wasnt a great prospect. He was probably ready to play long before he saw the field. GB pulled the trigger because he was too good to pass even though they didnt "need" him.

Brees was the 1st pick in the 2nd round.

Brady the rarest of flukes.

You really need to look at the collection of crap taken after round 1 over the past 25 years to understand the term "exceedingly rare." Plenty of articles out there about it.

You know who else were developmentals? McElroy, Clemens, Blake, Bollinger, Ainge, Clements, ... etc.

There is a big diffrrence between a quality prospect and developmental at QB. 1st round prospects hit probably around 35% with a higher rate at the top of rd 1 closer to 45%. These are educated guesstimates.

Approximately 99% trash for developmentals.

 

Which could also be the justification for trading up to wherever needed to get Winston or Mariota if they truly feel they are franchise guys.

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Kiper is playing GM for all 32 teams.  Here is what he has for the Jets

 

New York Jets

Top needs: QB, OLB, OL, RB

Round 1 (6) WR Kevin White, West Virginia

Round 2 (37) OLB Eli Harold, Virginia

Round 3 (70) QB Garrett Grayson, Colorado St.

Analysis: Yes, it would be nice to have Marcus Mariota fall to us at No. 6. But we're not going to pay a huge bounty like Washington did to move up for Robert Griffin III when I'm not convinced Mariota is a starter for us in 2015. I just think it's too much of a long-term setback, and I feel like even adequate play from either Ryan Fitzpatrick or Geno Smith makes us pretty competitive in 2015 because I think the defense can be special. So in adding White, I'm getting a weapon I can pair with Brandon MarshallEric Decker and Jace Amaro in the passing game. On paper, I now have a balanced and dangerous receiving corps. In Round 2, I'm getting Harold as a shot-out-of-a-cannon pass-rusher to complement the power components across my defensive line. Calvin Pace is 34, and Harold can make some plays in a limited role this coming season. In Round 3, I'm taking a shot on a good developmental QB. Grayson won't play early, but we don't have to rush him.

 

 

I am happy with the first two picks but not sure about the 3rd because there should be some good position players available.    I would like a rb in the 3rd but can we hold off until the 4th for a developmental QB?  Not sure.

This mock blows. 

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Yeah I tend to agree both White and Gregory seem like total airheads... I would prefer players with half a brain at least

 

Actually if you hear Gregory speak, he's reeeeeeeally not bad relative to what football players will give you.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000469275/article/nebraskas-randy-gregory-sees-34-defense-as-his-best-nfl-fit

 

 

I also note that post-marijuana everyone seems to be high (ha haaaa) on him as a player.  Didn't McShay put him at 6 even after the drug test?

 

I like him as much as any player in this draft.

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Actually if you hear Gregory speak, he's reeeeeeeally not bad relative to what football players will give you.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000469275/article/nebraskas-randy-gregory-sees-34-defense-as-his-best-nfl-fit

 

 

I also note that post-marijuana everyone seems to be high (ha haaaa) on him as a player.  Didn't McShay put him at 6 even after the drug test?

 

I like him as much as any player in this draft.

 

 

He had to go to junior college because his grades were so bad that no schools would take him 

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Actually if you hear Gregory speak, he's reeeeeeeally not bad relative to what football players will give you.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000469275/article/nebraskas-randy-gregory-sees-34-defense-as-his-best-nfl-fit

 

 

I also note that post-marijuana everyone seems to be high (ha haaaa) on him as a player.  Didn't McShay put him at 6 even after the drug test?

 

I like him as much as any player in this draft.

 

Sure its just pot? He's got that Strawberry nose.

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If we draft that, light in the ass, short armed "DE" when what we need an Pass Rushing OLB, I will kick in my brand new TV.

JB old buddy, somebody has sold you a bag of rocks. Shane Ray is not, I repeat not what you have come to believe.

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JB old buddy, somebody has sold you a bag of rocks. Shane Ray is not, I repeat not what you have come to believe.

Sorry I can see with my own eyes and he is not a OLB, he is a DE and at 245, he will be very limited.  I am not saying he can't rush the passer, but so can Gregory, Dupree and Beasley and I would take any one of them first over Ray. 

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Sorry I can see with my own eyes and he is not a OLB, he is a DE and at 245, he will be very limited.  I am not saying he can't rush the passer, but so can Gregory, Dupree and Beasley and I would take any one of them first over Ray.

you saw with your own 2 eyes that Shane Ray is not an OLB. What tape did you watch this player play OLB. Here's a question for you. OLBs usually go up against TEs and RBs while DEs go up against OTs head on for the most part.

How did this kid that is too light to play DE in the pros dominate OTs in the SEC playing DE enough to win SEC defensive player of the year ? The kid that you say is too light in the rump, got almost half his sacks on inside pass rush beating OGs just as badly as he beat up OTs.

I Saw this on the Jets home page and it made me laugh when I read stuff about how this kid don't have the "sand".

http://www.newyorkjets.com/videos/videos/Film-Review-Fowler-Ray--Dupree/b09099ca-f1e4-49fd-9762-65a717f6c6a9

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Does Kiper have Cooper going off the board before White, or is White the top ranked WR?  From what I've seen and read I'd take Cooper over White...

 

I am not sure where he has Cooper going. But I like the thought of taking White first if both are available. White can get all those over throws from Geno that would sail over Cooper's head. :)

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you saw with your own 2 eyes that Shane Ray is not an OLB. What tape did you watch this player play OLB. Here's a question for you. OLBs usually go up against TEs and RBs while DEs go up against OTs head on for the most part.

How did this kid that is too light to play DE in the pros dominate OTs in the SEC playing DE enough to win SEC defensive player of the year ? The kid that you say is too light in the rump, got almost half his sacks on inside pass rush beating OGs just as badly as he beat up OTs.

I Saw this on the Jets home page and it made me laugh when I read stuff about how this kid don't have the "sand".

http://www.newyorkjets.com/videos/videos/Film-Review-Fowler-Ray--Dupree/b09099ca-f1e4-49fd-9762-65a717f6c6a9

SEC Defensive POY has as much weight behind it as a Rolling Stone exposè these days.

Sorry, just saying.

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you saw with your own 2 eyes that Shane Ray is not an OLB. What tape did you watch this player play OLB. Here's a question for you. OLBs usually go up against TEs and RBs while DEs go up against OTs head on for the most part.

How did this kid that is too light to play DE in the pros dominate OTs in the SEC playing DE enough to win SEC defensive player of the year ? The kid that you say is too light in the rump, got almost half his sacks on inside pass rush beating OGs just as badly as he beat up OTs.

I Saw this on the Jets home page and it made me laugh when I read stuff about how this kid don't have the "sand".

http://www.newyorkjets.com/videos/videos/Film-Review-Fowler-Ray--Dupree/b09099ca-f1e4-49fd-9762-65a717f6c6a9

 

Let me ask you question; Is the SEC the same as the NFL? Because that is where he will be playing next year.  Look I don't want to get a in a pissing contest over this because, 1. it will be pointless since you are in love with the guy and 2. I just don't have the energy to debate it.    Bottom line is 245 DEs are not consistently dominating OTs or OGs in the pros.  He may not even be on the field for 1st and 2nd down most likely and we don't need to use the 6th pick for guy who is not a 3 down player.    Our Dline is already intact, it is our Olb that is where we are looking to build; I will take Dupree or Gregory before Ray because they can also rush the passer, drop into coverage and also play the run.  In other words they are 3 down players.  But like I said; I know you love the guy so its all good.

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I am not sure where he has Cooper going. But I like the thought of taking White first if both are available. White can get all those over throws from Geno that would sail over Cooper's head. :)

I know you are making a joke but there is some truth to that.  Having a guy like that (Marshall fits that bill too) will make any qb more confident that they can just get the ball in the vicinity and their guy can go up and make a play and more often than not either come down with it or prevent the db from getting it.  

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I know you are making a joke but there is some truth to that.  Having a guy like that (Marshall fits that bill too) will make any qb more confident that they can just get the ball in the vicinity and their guy can go up and make a play and more often than not either come down with it or prevent the db from getting it.  

 

I have been impressed with White, every time I see clips of him I walk away even more impressed.

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Dude seriously, you might want to get those eyes checked.   He has had a few drops but you are WAY exaggerating when you say he can't catch.  

Been a Canes ticket holder for years, seen his whole career, he sucks. Fast as all hell but too many drops in crucial situations. NO THANKS.

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Does Kiper have Cooper going off the board before White, or is White the top ranked WR?  From what I've seen and read I'd take Cooper over White...

Obviously since rates Cooper as the top WR prospect. I would have to say that a draft like that would look pretty good considering the FA haul we got. I think with Fitzy at QB the Jets could win 10 games this year. I wouldn't mind a RB in round two or three either. I think Grayson might be there in the fourth or maybe Sean Mannion or that DII prospect - I don't remember his name but there was some talk of a division II QB that had raised some interest.

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