Beerfish Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 What is the argument, is it who is better Cooper or White? Who has been ranked as the #1 guy by such and such a web site? Or was the Question who was rated higher by Jeremiah, Davis, Mayock? The thread title says this: "Jerimiah and Brooks debate White vs. Cooper ... best in class" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I think White is pretty safe because he's physical to go along with being fast, big, etc. I think what makes these freak types fail in the pros is that they can't handle the physicality they see on every play. Gholston and Stephen Hill always acted like they were being shot in the face whenever another player put their hands on them. From everything you read, White seems to enjoy the physical aspect of the game and wants to compete. I'm not sure what the knock on him really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 What is the argument, is it who is better Cooper or White? Who has been ranked as the #1 guy by such and such a web site? Or was the Question who was rated higher by Jeremiah, Davis, Mayock? The thread title says this: "Jerimiah and Brooks debate White vs. Cooper ... best in class" Well, if it's the latter then it's not an argument unless the debate was really incoherent. Whoever they say they have rated higher is presumably who they have rated higher. I guess they could be lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persiussa Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 People are wrong sometimes. But I hope you're not taking your wrong as some sort of standard for future drafts. Because I can sit here and tell you that most of the time Im right about WR's, doesnt mean that I'll get anything right this year. Last year was last year. This is a different year with different talent. Just trying to help people open their minds to different possibilities. In the past I decided to not let workout numbers effect my rankings but now I'm open to the possibility that sometimes it can mean something. Of course sometimes it doesn't either. You just have to trust your film assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Cooper and it's way less close than being sold. I agree with this. I like his polish and production vs the top competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I'm not sure what the knock on him really is. he's a catcher not a receiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemusclyde Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Anyone know if Breshad Perriman is any good? Seems like he could make it to our pick in the 2nd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 You can't go wrong with either player. It is really a matter of preference and I have to say this; anyone who thinks it isn't even close is out of their mind. White is a total beast and his best football is ahead of him. It is not all about what kind of recruit you were in high school or soley what you did in college. Of course that is important but it is also how you project on the next level. As Jeremiah said, when WVU played Roll Tide, White was easily the most impressive receiver on the field THAT day. Again you can't go wrong either way but really wish folks would stop acting like Cooper is head and shoulders better because he is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Anyone know if Breshad Perriman is any good? Seems like he could make it to our pick in the 2nd round. Truthfully I would not be surprised if he turns out to be just as good if not better than Cooper or White in year or two. The guy has that kind of potential; whether he reaches it or not is another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 he's a catcher not a receiver You mean he is playing baseball out there? Seriously where do people come up with this stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Just trying to help people open their minds to different possibilities. In the past I decided to not let workout numbers effect my rankings but now I'm open to the possibility that sometimes it can mean something. Of course sometimes it doesn't either. You just have to trust your film assessment. My friend it wasn't just about the combine and work outs; White smoked Alabama earlier in the season and EVERYBODY was put on notice just how good this kid is. In fact he was the best receiver on the field that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 No they ALL didnt because if they did then Amari Cooper wouldnt have been the #1 WR going into the combine which he in fact was. There were probably people (few) that was making the case for it but there wasnt a bunch of people that was flat out saying that Kevin White was the best receiver in this years draft. Amari was projected to go to the Raiders going into the combine but White was also mentioned in connection with Jets only 2 picks later. In fact the was a Daily News Article that came out a few weeks before we got Marshall, talking about him. After the combine, everyone started mentioning that White might actually go ahead of Cooper and it has been back and forth ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 You mean he is playing baseball out there? Seriously where do people come up with this stuff? inside joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Maybe White is better than Cooper. I don't know. I do know that appeal to authority is ridiculous when said authorities aren't among the sixteen people who exercise final say over NFL teams' draft picks at an above-average level. Kind of by definition. I think Cooper is a better draft pick, but I know he's a lower-variance evaluation. Anybody who says otherwise has an inflated estimation of at least two people's opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Cooper is the game All Star. White is the combine All Star. Pick your poison, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Here is an interesting article on how White closed the "gap" with Cooper. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2015/04/06/2015-nfl-draft-wide-receiver-overview-how-kevin-white-overtook-amari-cooper-on-some-draft-boards/ How Kevin White overtook Amari Cooper on some draft boards By Liz Clarke April 6 West Virginia’s Kevin White arrived at February’s NFL Combine in the shadow of Alabama’s Amari Cooper, who was widely acknowledged as the top prospect among a loaded class of wide receivers. But with a lights-out showing in the on-field workouts that followed, White transformed what had been a no-brainer for NFL teams in dire need of an impact receiver into a subject of genuine debate. Less than four weeks before the first-round selections are made, the 6-foot-3, 215-pound White is as likely as Cooper to be listed as the top wideout taken in credible mock drafts. NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock has said he considers White the draft’s top wide receiver, ahead of Cooper, a Heisman Trophy finalist and recipient of the Biletnikoff Award, given to the college game’s best wideout. “I do think Cooper has a better chance to come in right away because he’s a great route runner, he has three years of productivity, so I would give Cooper the edge to help out right away,” Kiper said in a recent teleconference. “But I think White’s going to have a great career, and I think [Louisville’s] DeVante Parker is going to have a really good career.ESPN analyst Mel Kiper Jr. grades Cooper the slightly better player, yet predicts White will be the first wide receiver taken, by Oakland with the fourth overall pick. Kiper has Cooper going to St. Louis, 10th overall. “You don’t have to love one and not like the other.” A junior-college transfer, White lacks Cooper’s seasoning in Division I football (White played two seasons at West Virginia; Cooper, three at Alabama) and the pedigree of having played on powerhouse teams that won a national championship and two SEC championships. Cooper’s 2014 stats are more impressive, too: 124 catches for 1727 yards. But in the eyes of many NFL general managers and scouts, White’s upside as an NFL receiver is every bit as promising as Cooper’s — if not more so. After skipping the Senior Bowl, White dispelled any notion that he lacked breakaway speed by running a 4.35 in the 40-yard dash at the combine. He also recorded a 36.5-inch vertical jump and 123-inch broad jump while managing 23 bench-press reps, edging Cooper in all of those metrics. As Mayock put it, that showing “officially makes him a freak.” Beyond the quantifiable, White also displayed an undeniable presence on the field — a sense of belonging in a man’s game that came across in the way he commanded space on the field as he ran the gauntlet drill, his head and broad shoulders on a swivel as balls were fired at him from each side.“I don’t feel that any receiver can do what I can do,” White told reporters at the combine. “Whether it’s blocking, creating space, taking a tunnel screen to the house — I do it all. I’m not saying that to be cocky. Just confident. I feel like I’m one of a kind.” [A look at the top 10 quarterbacks | What Washington should do] White’s ascent up the draft board is based on more than one day in which he helped himself as much as any hopeful at the Combine. It is backed up by video of his outstanding senior season in West Virginia’s pass-heavy offense. He had nine catches for 143 yards and a touchdown in the Mountaineers’ 33-23 season-opening loss to Alabama — a performance that drew comparisons to Arizona’s Larry Fitzgerald, one of the wide receivers White has patterned his game after. (Julio Jones and Brandon Marshall are the others). Maryland defenders could attest to his ability after White managed a career-high 13 catches for 216 yards in West Virginia’s 40-37 victory over the Terps two weeks later. As national TV cameras focused in, White developed a penchant for blurting out “Easy!” with a broad smile after particularly spectacular plays. The word pumped him up, he explained; it wasn’t meant to imply that hard work wasn’t the foundation of his game. Though a standout at Emmaus (Pa.) High School, where he played defensive back before shifting to wide receiver, White didn’t earn the grades to qualify for a Division I scholarship. So he enrolled at Lackawanna College in Scranton, Pa., which supplied sorely needed structure and tough love. The circuitous route to Division I was difficult, said White at the combine, but molded him into the competitor he is today. “What I learned is that hard work definitely pays off,” said White, 22. A lot of guys there had great talent and should have definitely been Division I but didn’t work hard.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Cooper is the game All Star. White is the combine All Star. Pick your poison, folks. What games have you been watching to make that assessment? I mean have you seen White play at all? He had 109 catches for 1447 and 10 touchdowns in 2014 including going 9 for 143 with one td against top ranked Alabama. Tell what any of that has to do with the combine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 It's not "close". It's either or. Either you think Cooper is easily better or you go with White. They're just different players with a different pedigree / body of work. Personally I think Cooper is easily the better receiver of the two. He's closer to Antonio Brown/Sammy Watkins while Kevin White is more of a Mike Wallace. Case in point, look at where everybody had him going a few months ago. Somewhere in the 2nd round, maybe late 1st. Then he runs that fast 40 and suddenly he's up there with Amari? No. Way. Dude you obviously were not paying attention because Cooper, White and Parker have been lumped together for months and he was moving up the draft boards way before the combine. The guy had 109 catches for 1447 yards and 10 TDs. It is not like he wasn't productive last year. I swear most of you guys most not have seen him play at all to be making these kinds of comments. Cooper may be closer to Sammy Watkins/Antonio Brown well White is closer to Larry Fitzgerald, Julio Jones or Brandon Marshall. You would have a problem with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Bill Polian nailed Cooper, Compared to a quicker faster Reggie Wayne, I will take that everyday of week. also called him the best WR in draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Bill Polian nailed Cooper, Compared to a quicker faster Reggie Wayne, I will take that everyday of week. also called him the best WR in draft Would you also consider taking a faster Larry Fitzgerald? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Cooper was a unanimous all american, Heisman finalist, Belitnekoff winner with multiple thousand-yard seasons, 30+ touchdowns, and 14 100-yard games. White has braids. Which one's Larry Fitzgerald? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Would you also consider taking a faster Larry Fitzgerald? Of course. But I'd say there is a higher probability of Cooper becoming a bigger, faster Reggie Wayne than White becoming a faster Larry Fitzgerald. They are both good, but I'm taking Cooper all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 A lot of the ink that White is getting is because of the fact that the last WR people thought had a HUGE upside ended up having one and that too in his rookie year. No prizes for guessing who I am talking about here. The season ODB had makes many forget that as a prospect he was only 3rd best in his draft class. This is an important distinction. As a prospect Sammy Watkins was the lights out, complete, surefire WR prospect coming out of college. As a prospect Sammy Watkins was greater than ODB. But the HUGE upside everyone was hoping for with ODB kicked in and as a rookie player ODB was numero uno amongst rookie WR's. So in a copycat league atleast with a whole bunch of draft "experts" we are seeing that they are willing to give Kevin White that benefit of doubt when it comes to having a HUGE upside, so much so that that most have White being picked in the Top 10. But do you stake your Top 10 pick on a surefire prospect or a guy with a HUGE upside. I choose to go for the surefire prospect. If last year's draft was happening today I would still pick Sammy Watkins at the position he was picked (although i would never trade up like the BIlls did) ahead of ODB. I thought Giants took a definite risk drafting ODB at #12 but it did pay off for them. So this year what should happen. I would pick the surefire prospect in Top 10 if he is available. That would be Cooper. A few weeks ago before i had looked into Cooper i had asked if he was better than Watkins and IIRC I was told Cooper is better than Watkins. I do not think so. Watkins was a better prospect. But Cooper is a more complete prospect than White and the most surefire prospect this draft. ( I gotta be honest here, i haven't even gone beyond these two guys due to work commitments. Hopefully I get around to watching more talent before the draft begins). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Sound process. Lot of typing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 bet on a higher ceiling, or go conservative and take the higher floor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 What games have you been watching to make that assessment? I mean have you seen White play at all? He had 109 catches for 1447 and 10 touchdowns in 2014 including going 9 for 143 with one td against top ranked Alabama. Tell what any of that has to do with the combine? White was not anywhere near Cooper draft wise until he ran a 40 at THE COMBINE. It is a magical place where athletes often dupe teams into overrating them. I do not dislike White. I like Cooper better right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 White was not anywhere near Cooper draft wise until he ran a 40 at THE COMBINE. It is a magical place where athletes often dupe teams into overrating them. I do not dislike White. I like Cooper better right now. Yeah nowhere near lol. Whats not to like about the guy? As the article I posted mentioned, you can like one without disliking the other. This is an article from January (BEFORE the Combine). It has the top 4 receivers in this order - Parker, Strong, White (it was a toss up between those two) and then Cooper. Now I am not saying I agree with this but just posting to let you know that White has been considered a top 2 or 3 receiver for some time now. The only thing the combine did show that he had the speed to go with his production and of course that moved him up from maybe 3rd to as high as the 1st receiver off the board. The same thing is happening to Breshard Perriman who is now projected to be a top 20 pick. http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2015/01/28/2015-nfl-draft-ranking-the-top-15-wide-receivers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 bet on a higher ceiling, or go conservative and take the higher floor Or go with a pretty good floor with a high ceiling.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Cooper was a unanimous all american, Heisman finalist, Belitnekoff winner with multiple thousand-yard seasons, 30+ touchdowns, and 14 100-yard games. White has braids. Which one's Larry Fitzgerald? And all of that means jack in the NFL against NFL secondaries. The draft is full of great collegiate players who were not nearly as dominant in the NFL. Now I think Cooper is going to be a great player; no one doubts that. You can denigrate White all you want; this guy is no flash in the pan. I seriously don't get this mentality that you have to put down one guy to build up another. I will take a fast Larry Fitz every day of the week. In fact if you want another comparison to consider there is a guy on the Jets who comes to mind. Fella by the last name of Marshall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 It would be amazing to land either of them. Marshall has actually played in the slot a lot during his career. Could you imagine 3-wide sets with Cooper, BMarsh and Decker all on the field at once? Nice. How about Decker - Marshall - Kerley - Cooper and Amaro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 And all of that means jack in the NFL against NFL secondaries. The draft is full of great collegiate players who were not nearly as dominant in the NFL. Now I think Cooper is going to be a great player; no one doubts that. You can denigrate White all you want; this guy is no flash in the pan. I seriously don't get this mentality that you have to put down one guy to build up another. I will take a fast Larry Fitz every day of the week. In fact if you want another comparison to consider there is a guy on the Jets who comes to mind. Fella by the last name of Marshall. my issue with him is he is a 1 year wonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 my issue with him is he is a 1 year wonder Well so be it. That one year was as good as just about any receiver in college football. The guy has a great work ethic and truly wants to be as best he is capable of becoming. He learned not to take anything for granted when he was at Junior College and I believe it was that desire and drive that led him to the success he had last year. He will have a learning curve in the NFL but so will every rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Dude you obviously were not paying attention because Cooper, White and Parker have been lumped together for months and he was moving up the draft boards way before the combine. The guy had 109 catches for 1447 yards and 10 TDs. It is not like he wasn't productive last year. I swear most of you guys most not have seen him play at all to be making these kinds of comments. Cooper may be closer to Sammy Watkins/Antonio Brown well White is closer to Larry Fitzgerald, Julio Jones or Brandon Marshall. You would have a problem with that? Your comparisons make absolutely no sense whatsoever. It'd be like saying Hundley could be the next Peyton Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 my issue with him is he is a 1 year wonder Well so be it. That one year was as good as just about any receiver in college football. The guy has a great work ethic and truly wants to be as best he is capable of becoming. He learned not to take anything for granted when he was at Junior College and I believe it was that desire and drive that led him to the success he had last year. He will have a learning curve in the NFL but so will every rookie. This guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Your comparisons make absolutely no sense whatsoever. It'd be like saying Hundley could be the next Peyton Manning. This quote is taken from the article I posted above: "He had nine catches for 143 yards and a touchdown in the Mountaineers’ 33-23 season-opening loss to Alabama— a performance that drew comparisons to Arizona’s Larry Fitzgerald, one of the wide receivers White has patterned his game after. (Julio Jones and Brandon Marshall are the others)." Make sense now?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.