Winston, Mariota, Williams, Cooper, Fowler go Top 5

[JetBlue]

Gregory is the only guy among the potential edge-rushers who was solid against the run and that was because he was used as a DE and it was a natural function of his role. Gregory is not, in my opinion, in the same class as a pass rusher as Fowler, Ray or Beasley (Dupree is too raw to even compare, but nice measurable). All three are more explosive, faster, and more skilled as pure pass rushers. So much depends on what the Jets want. I believe they will lean to the pure OLB's over the DE hybrid types (Coples part 2). Right now what teams are looking for is where they expect a player to be a few years down the road. Dupree may have the best upside, but he is the farthest away. If Ray is healthy, he and Fowler and Beasley will see the field quickly in precisely the packages you describe. That's not a bad thing.

 

Fowler was also good against the run as was Dupree in limited opportunities and they all project well on the next level.  Gregory is definitely in the same class as pass rusher, I have no idea what film you are looking at.  His swim move is probably the best in this draft class.  I am sure he also played LB and definitely can play in space.  Drafting at 6 you need a player who can stay on the field for 3 downs. To me that is either Fowler or Gregory.  Dupree also once he is coached up a bit.  I would take Beasley over Ray if had to make a choice.  Ray hasn't shown me he as the ability to play LB; he is really a DE in a LB body.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

I watched a lot of College football and my ick will be a pass rusher at a LB position. My choice is between Beasley or Ray. I like Ray more because of his size and speed. Beasley is a little lighter and needs to bulk up.

They're both 6'3" and 245. Beasley looks pretty pumped to me...

 

[JetBlue]

I watched a lot of College football and my ick will be a pass rusher at a LB position. My choice is between Beasley or Ray. I like Ray more because of his size and speed. Beasley is a little lighter and needs to bulk up.

If you watched a lot of college football than you have to know that Ray is more DE than LB.  And you really think Ray has more speed than Beasley?  Not sure what you are looking at but that is the first I have ever heard that.  Beasley was 246 at the combine so I don't think size is an issue as it relates to him in Ray as Ray is only 245 himself.  Personally I take Gregory over either of them.

[JetBlue]

They're both 6'3" and 245. Beasley looks pretty pumped to me...

 

 

I agree.  Whatever advantage Ray may or may not have over Beasley, it is not Size nor Speed.

[Tony The Wiz]

If you watched a lot of college football than you have to know that Ray is more DE than LB.  And you really think Ray has more speed than Beasley?  Not sure what you are looking at but that is the first I have ever heard that.  Beasley was 246 at the combine so I don't think size is an issue as it relates to him in Ray as Ray is only 245 himself.  Personally I take Gregory over either of them.

Beasley played at 230 to 235 all year. He knew he had to bulk up a little.

[JetBlue]

Beasley played at 230 to 235 all year. He knew he had to bulk up a little.

Right and he did so.  So now he is 246; Ray is 245.  The difference is Beasley is not nearly as stiff in his movements as Ray.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Beasley played at 230 to 235 all year. He knew he had to bulk up a little.

And yet Gregory is 6'5" and 235 right now. He's not nearly as compact or ripped as Beasley, for what that's worth. Beasley is also incredibly strong as well. If Ray didn't have the toe issue, it would be a tough call, but now he's got a liability, which rules him out at 6.

[Arsis]

Trade down if you can

[LIJetsFan]

I agree with you bit that it would come down to those two choices for me, however, I would choose Beasley. All other things being equal, I think an edge rusher holds more value than a wr, I agree with you that OLB is a bigger need for the Jets than WR and I prefer the WR options that will be available later on in the draft over the OLB options that will be available in later rounds. 

 

I've a rhetorical question for you.  Is our D light years ahead of our O?  The answer is Yes.  

 

So how can anyone get all excited about an edge rusher who might make our D 5-6% better when a WR might very well make our O 10-12% better?  Going O at 6 is an absolute no brainer.  If Cooper and White are gone I'd be ok with Parker.

 

I can't wait for Mac to show us his true colors.  

 

 

 

To me the following by Mac indicates that he will not for edge at 6:  

 

Maccagnan made his bones by spending more than a dozen years in the scouting department with the Texans, who ran 3-4 defenses under head coach Dom Capers and defensive coordinator Wade Phillips. Maccagnan said he evaluates 3-4 edge rushers by focusing on their fundamentals—from how they engage blockers to how well they rush the passer.

"From my standpoint, I'm not going to guarantee I'm going to draft one every year," Maccagnan said. "I think you really go into the draft every year, if you're a 3-4 team, and you'd like to have a young one every year because they take time to develop."

[Larz]

Fowler was also good against the run as was Dupree in limited opportunities and they all project well on the next level.  Gregory is definitely in the same class as pass rusher, I have no idea what film you are looking at.  His swim move is probably the best in this draft class.  I am sure he also played LB and definitely can play in space.  Drafting at 6 you need a player who can stay on the field for 3 downs. To me that is either Fowler or Gregory.  Dupree also once he is coached up a bit.  I would take Beasley over Ray if had to make a choice.  Ray hasn't shown me he as the ability to play LB; he is really a DE in a LB body.

 

 

I really don't want a tweener, for me ray is out.  I also am picking up that dupree doesn't have instincts or football IQ.  I don't want that either. gregory knew there was going to be a pee test at the combine and failed.  I would take him off of my board.

 

who is left then for me who can play 3 downs as you point out ?  fowler ?  he probably goes top 3.

 

so its beasley for me most likely ?

[Savage69]

Go back and check Mock Drafts from last year and before most are 90% wrong except for the 1st pick and then it's 50-50..LOL

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Go back and check Mock Drafts from last year and before most are 90% wrong except for the 1st pick and then it's 50-50..LOL

So right. I was taking a look at analyst rankings from 2012 and 2013 -- actually embarrassing if you consider that a professional discipline. One thing that jumped out: QB's and Edge Rushers were particularly poorly predicted. OL and WR's were somewhat better.

[SenorGato]

How are people still falling for the Fowler stuff? When was it decided that he was a top 3-5 pick anyway? Who decided it? I feel like I woke up one day and everyone was calling this guy a top 5 pick.

[legler82]

Who do you take at 6? 

 

Trade down

[RichardTodd27]

With OLB being a position of need, you got to go Beasily or Dupree. To me, trading for Marshall means no wr in the 1st round.

[legler82]

Gregory is the only guy among the potential edge-rushers who was solid against the run and that was because he was used as a DE and it was a natural function of his role. Gregory is not, in my opinion, in the same class as a pass rusher as Fowler, Ray or Beasley (Dupree is too raw to even compare, but nice measurable). All three are more explosive, faster, and more skilled as pure pass rushers. So much depends on what the Jets want. I believe they will lean to the pure OLB's over the DE hybrid types (Coples part 2). Right now what teams are looking for is where they expect a player to be a few years down the road. Dupree may have the best upside, but he is the farthest away. If Ray is healthy, he and Fowler and Beasley will see the field quickly in precisely the packages you describe. That's not a bad thing.

 

I think the consensus is that Gregory is the best "pure" pass rusher in the draft.

[legler82]

How are people still falling for the Fowler stuff? When was it decided that he was a top 3-5 pick anyway? Who decided it? I feel like I woke up one day and everyone was calling this guy a top 5 pick.

 

I think he has a promise from JAX that he will not get pass them.  Still he is considered the "safest" of the pass rushers.  As he can rush, set the edge and has no issues off the field.

[legler82]

And yet Gregory is 6'5" and 235 right now. He's not nearly as compact or ripped as Beasley, for what that's worth. Beasley is also incredibly strong as well. If Ray didn't have the toe issue, it would be a tough call, but now he's got a liability, which rules him out at 6.

 

Gregory's strength shows on the field while Beasley's only shows in the weight room.

[legler82]

They're both 6'3" and 245. Beasley looks pretty pumped to me...

 

 

Vernon Gholston looked pretty pumped too.

[LIJetsFan]

With OLB being a position of need, you got to go Beasily or Dupree. To me, trading for Marshall means no wr in the 1st round.

 

 

Our DL is one of the best is the league.  We could even allow Ellis to walk and can still field an awesome DL.  Marshall is no spring chicken.  Why draft an edge rusher who will only make our D marginally better (if he's not a fail) when you can take a WR who is more of a sure thing.  I'd like us to have an awesome WR corps as well as an awesome DL.  Think about it.   

[papz187]

I wouldn't rule out us taking the kid from LSU L. Collins to groom as Ferguson's replacement either.

I know absolutely nothing about offensive line prospects since I don't watch college football, but if there's a prospect that could hold down the starting spot at RT til Brick retires and then could swing over and be our starting LT that would be perfect. I have no idea if that player exists in this draft though.

If you can't find your future LT that could play RT til Brick retires, than the next best thing would be drafting a road grader beast of a RT that can dominate in the run game but also hold his own in pass protection.

In my opinion, our line is middle of the road in terms of the entire NFL. I'd like to improve on that and solidify the future of our line as that is the heart of the unit and can set the tone by dominating up front. All of our recent playoff teams leaned heavily on our offensive line, from 04 with Mawae, Kendall, Fabini, McKenzie, and Brandon Moore on Herms teams to Brick, Mangold, Moore, Kendall on Mangini's 06 team and then the dominant squad of Brick, Faneca, Mangold, Moore and Woody on the 09 and 10 teams coached by Rex. Building our line should definitely be a priority, whether we go with a tackle or guard with one of our first couple of picks.

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[SenorGato]

I think he has a promise from JAX that he will not get pass them. Still he is considered the "safest" of the pass rushers. As he can rush, set the edge and has no issues off the field.

I don't get the why behind him being considered safe. The explanation seems to be something around smoke and mirrors.

[Jetster]

Would love to get the Browns 2 firsts if Mariota fell to us at 6 & Browns wanted him.

With Gregory failing pot test he could fall to where the Jets could draft a combo of Gregory & Parker or Gregory & Gurley!

That would be a 1st round haul!

Can't wait for Mac & Bowles 1st draft. Pumped that Bradway is gone.

DRob & Nugent were fireable offenses a long time ago.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Vernon Gholston looked pretty pumped too.

This is getting really tired as a response to every OLB discussion. The statement made was that he had to bulk up. Point is he already has, as the photo demonstrates. Beasley and Gholston frankly don't belong in the same discussion. Beasley is a pure pass rushing OLB out of college. Gholston was a DE converted to an OLB. Different temperaments, different skill sets, totally different re flexibility. So bringing up Gholston is frankly idiotic.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

I know absolutely nothing about offensive line prospects since I don't watch college football, but if there's a prospect that could hold down the starting spot at RT til Brick retires and then could swing over and be our starting LT that would be perfect. I have no idea if that player exists in this draft though.

If you can't find your future LT that could play RT til Brick retires, than the next best thing would be drafting a road grader beast of a RT that can dominate in the run game but also hold his own in pass protection.

In my opinion, our line is middle of the road in terms of the entire NFL. I'd like to improve on that and solidify the future of our line as that is the heart of the unit and can set the tone by dominating up front. All of our recent playoff teams leaned heavily on our offensive line, from 04 with Mawae, Kendall, Fabini, McKenzie, and Brandon Moore on Herms teams to Brick, Mangold, Moore, Kendall on Mangini's 06 team and then the dominant squad of Brick, Faneca, Mangold, Moore and Woody on the 09 and 10 teams coached by Rex. Building our line should definitely be a priority, whether we go with a tackle or guard with one of our first couple of picks.

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You're describing Scherff.

[papz187]

You're describing Scherff.

Really? I thought he is projected as more of a guard in the NFL, or at best a RT, but doesn't have the ability to play LT?

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[legler82]

I don't get the why behind him being considered safe. The explanation seems to be something around smoke and mirrors.

 

You may not agree with it but I gave you the why.  He has the ability to set the edge and is clean off the field in addition to being able to rush the passer.  You can't say the same for the other top rushers.

[legler82]

This is getting really tired as a response to every OLB discussion. The statement made was that he had to bulk up. Point is he already has, as the photo demonstrates. Beasley and Gholston frankly don't belong in the same discussion. Beasley is a pure pass rushing OLB out of college. Gholston was a DE converted to an OLB. Different temperaments, different skill sets, totally different re flexibility. So bringing up Gholston is frankly idiotic.

 

Not every OLB discussion just a Beasley discussion.  What's idiotic about both being combine warriors with college production?  Who cares if they bust for different reasons as long as they bust?

[Matt39]

I think the consensus is that Gregory is the best "pure" pass rusher in the draft.

 

I think he's the best defensive player in the draft tbh...the red flags are real though. 

[legler82]

I think he's the best defensive player in the draft tbh...the red flags are real though. 

 

I agree.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Really? I thought he is projected as more of a guard in the NFL, or at best a RT, but doesn't have the ability to play LT?

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That's a question, not an answer. All that can really be said is that he's the most complete OL in the draft and can play multiple positions. Here's one comment from Rang at CBS Draft, which points to the conflict -- he played LT in college at a very high level but there are doubts about his footwork in the pro's.... who knows, really?

 

02/17/2015 - 2015 DRAFT SCOUT PRE-COMBINE TOP 64 DRAFT PROSPECTS: 6/1. Brandon Scherff, OT, Iowa, 6-5, 320, 4.93, 1...The only thing scouts agree about on Scherff is that he is the most NFL-ready offensive lineman in the draft. The debate is whether he should use his broad-shoulders and toughness at guard, where he played as a freshman, or show his excellent technique at tackle, where he lined up on the left side the rest of his college career and was named consensus All-American and earned the Outland Trophy last season as the best college lineman. Those who believe he belongs inside are probably concerned that he doesn't have quick footwork required against the NFL's outside pass rushers, an issue not helped a broken fibula and dislocated ankle as a sophomore.

[papz187]

That's a question, not an answer. All that can really be said is that he's the most complete OL in the draft and can play multiple positions. Here's one comment from Rang at CBS Draft, which points to the conflict -- he played LT in college at a very high level but there are doubts about his footwork in the pro's.... who knows, really?

02/17/2015 - 2015 DRAFT SCOUT PRE-COMBINE TOP 64 DRAFT PROSPECTS: 6/1. Brandon Scherff, OT, Iowa, 6-5, 320, 4.93, 1...The only thing scouts agree about on Scherff is that he is the most NFL-ready offensive lineman in the draft. The debate is whether he should use his broad-shoulders and toughness at guard, where he played as a freshman, or show his excellent technique at tackle, where he lined up on the left side the rest of his college career and was named consensus All-American and earned the Outland Trophy last season as the best college lineman. Those who believe he belongs inside are probably concerned that he doesn't have quick footwork required against the NFL's outside pass rushers, an issue not helped a broken fibula and dislocated ankle as a sophomore.

OK thanks for the answer. Yeah it was a question....I asked cause I am only going by what I hear from analysts and on this board, I haven't watched him so I can't form my own personal opinion.

I guess if we take him and he ends up not being able to play LT, but can play RT or dominate at Guard then that's pretty good. If we were to go with Scherff though I would like to trade back a few slots and pick up an additional 2nd or 3rd before selecting him if possible.

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[SenorGato]

You may not agree with it but I gave you the why. He has the ability to set the edge and is clean off the field in addition to being able to rush the passer. You can't say the same for the other top rushers.

Why are we just assuming he can rush the passer? It's not in his college numbers or workout numbers, so what is the basis for this? Besides for Gregory, they're all clean off the field as far as we know, Fowler isn't special in that regard. Nor is he unique in being able to set the edge, and that isn't even a kinda sorta reason to draft a guy at 6.

So really, why are so many people seemingly sold on him as a pass rusher? Stuff and things?

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Not every OLB discussion just a Beasley discussion.  What's idiotic about both being combine warriors with college production?  Who cares if they bust for different reasons as long as they bust?

Look, at least do your homework. Tell me how Beasley is a work-out warrior compared to his peers - I call BS.

 

FOWLER ((Junior)

First-team All-SEC and Walter Camp second-team selection in 2014. Led the Gators with 15 tackles for loss and 17 quarterback hurries and had 8.5 sacks. Had at least one tackle for loss in all but one game in 2014. Was voted team and defensive MVP and was a captain for his final season. Was second-team All-SEC as a sophomore in 2013. Played in 37 career games, with 25 starts. Had five forced fumbles in his career and 34 tackles for loss. Was a five-star recruit from Lakewood High School in Florida and competed in the 2012 Under Armour All-America game.

 

BEASLEY (Senior)

During his four seasons at Clemson, Beasley totaled 52.5 tackles for loss, 33 sacks, 29 quarterback pressures, 11 pass breakups, seven forced fumbles, two recovered fumbles and two touchdowns in 1,421 snaps over 48 games (25 starts). He ranks first in school history in sacks, fourth in tackles for loss and tied for seventh in forced fumbles. He is a two-time first-team All-American and two-time first-team All-ACC selection. Was a finalist for the Bednarik, Lombardi and Hendricks Award in 2014. He was selected as ACC Defensive Player of the Year in 2014. His 33 career sacks came during the final 39 games of his career and pushed him past Michael Dean Perry, Gaines Adams and William Perry on the school's all-time sack list. As a junior in 2013, he had 23 tackles for loss, 13 sacks, 12 quarterback pressures, six pass breakups and four forced fumbles in 13 starts. In 2012, he had a team-high eight sacks. Played nine games during his freshman season in 2011, after redshirting in 2010. Was rated the No. 16 athlete in the nation by ESPN out of Adairsville High School (Ga.). He played high school and AAU basketball and his father, Victor, played football at Auburn. He graduated with a degree in sociology prior to his senior season.

 

GREGORY (Junior)

After just two seasons at Nebraska, Gregory ranks ninth on the school's all-time sack list with 17.5 sacks. As a junior in 2014, Gregory was named 2014 second-team All-American (FWAA) and first-team All-Big Ten (Media, Coaches). He missed two games and played sparingly in two others due to a knee injury he had suffered playing basketball in high school. Still managed a team-high seven sacks for 67 yards in losses. Gregory was third on the team with 10 tackles for loss and led the Huskers with 16 quarterback hurries. His 10.5 sacks as a sophomore in 2013 were the most ever by a first-year Husker and he was voted defensive MVP that season. He joined the Huskers after one season (2011) at Arizona Western CC, where he was regarded as the top junior-college defensive end prospect. He missed the entire 2012 season with a broken leg. Gregory also played basketball in high school and received Division I interest. He originally signed with Purdue to play football but didn't qualify academically.

 

DUPREE (Senior)

Was a team captain in 2014. Finished his senior season with 7.5 sacks and 23.5 for his career, which was the most by any active SEC player. He finished second on the team in tackles with 74, including 12.5 tackles for loss. Had his first career interception against South Carolina and returned it six yards for the game-winning touchdown. Started the final 38 games of his career and had 36 tackles for loss in his 45-game career. Was a quarterfinalist for the LOTT Trophy, given to a student-athlete that embodies integrity, maturity, performance, academics, community and tenacity. First-team all-state in Georgia, where he was a four-year starter at tight end and a three-year starter at defensive end. Had 10 receiving touchdowns and 10 sacks as a senior. Also won a state title in basketball.

 

RAY (Junior)

As a junior in 2014, Ray was named SEC Defensive Player of the Year while earning consensus first-team All-America status after leading the SEC in sacks and tackles for loss. He was All-SEC first team (AP, Coaches) and a Hendricks Award Finalist (nation's top defensive end). He was a semifinalist for the Lombardi and Bednarik awards. His 14.5 sacks in 2014 are a school single-season record and ranked third nationally. His 22.5 tackles for loss also ranked third nationally. He also forced two fumbles. In 2013, appeared in all 14 games (no starts), and had nine tackles for loss and 4.5 sacks. During redshirt freshman season in 2012, had 2.5 tackles for loss in 12 games (no starts). Redshirted in 2011. Was rated No. 3 player overall in Kansas by Rivals.com. Overcame very turbulent adolescence. His father, Wendell, starred at Missouri at defensive end and was a fifth-round draft pick in the 1981 NFL Draft.

[SenorGato]

I think he's the best defensive player in the draft tbh...

Agreed on this. Gregory's a stud. This is from someone who is reeeeeeeaaaaalllllyy big on Dupree too. It's very close, but I think Gregory has a better feel for the game.