Interesting MiniCamp Tweets (Day 2)

[Charlie Brown]

Marshall, a true no.1. WR

IMO he is the first number on the Jets since Coles!!!

[Beerfish]

- Doesn't lobby for any (college) player and who to pick. As an NFL coach all he knows/sees are the highlights.

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[Integrity28]

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How did I miss this one!

[Beerfish]

How did I miss this one!

Well by gosh I saw this guy just smash the wall on that one play and on another he blocked the shi* out of that guy!  Fing face planted him!  Tanny, this is who I want on this team!  (All from a 30 second highlight clip)

[DaBallhawk]

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I was going to bring him up but then I bit my tongue. It's refreshing to have a guy like Bowles HC this team, somebody who realizes he doesn't have all the answers, who realizes that there are other people around him that know a little bit more than he does in certain areas, especially when it comes to scouting and whatnot. Rex always had all the answers. I can do this, I can do that, let me work with this guy, let me fix that guy. I made Joe Flacco, I made Terrell Suggs, I did this and that. Shut up. I still have no clue how as a defensive coordinator of the Ravens he (according to himself) had enough say/power to get the franchise to draft Flacco, and then take even credit for developing him. The guy is just completely out of his mind.

[RoadFan]

Half this forum wanted to just cut and move on from Milliner before this season for no good reason other than they wee made he was hurt and was a 'gasp!!!!!!' an Idzik draft pick.

That is an exaggeration and you know it. There are some, me included, that would have traded Milliner for a 4th or 5th round pick. I also saw people say that he is no guarantee to make the team and must earn a roster spot. Again, me included. I did not read anyone mentioning to outright cut him.

Also, he is only "shadowing" Revis. He is not defending passes out there! I am sure Kyle Wilson spent time shadowing Revis too...

[Xtina]

Half this forum wanted to just cut and move on from Milliner before this season for no good reason other than they wee made he was hurt and was a 'gasp!!!!!!'  an Idzik draft pick.

It is okay to be on the Milliner  bandwagon now that Idzik is gone. 

[JetBlue]

And having NO weapons can make any QB look like a moron.

THIS

[Beerfish]

Half this forum wanted to just cut and move on from Milliner before this season for no good reason other than they wee made he was hurt and was a 'gasp!!!!!!'  an Idzik draft pick.

(I think I just dragged down the Jets fan grammar spelling ranking with this post.)

[Beerfish]

That is an exaggeration and you know it. There are some, me included, that would have traded Milliner for a 4th or 5th round pick. I also saw people say that he is no guarantee to make the team and must earn a roster spot. Again, me included. I did not read anyone mentioning to outright cut him.

Also, he is only "shadowing" Revis. He is not defending passes out there! I am sure Kyle Wilson spent time shadowing Revis too...

Trading a 9th overall pick in the 1st round for a 4th or 5th round pick is as good as cutting him.  There was ZERO logical reason to even think about that considering his salary, present value and what he could become.  Most of it was simply, as I said because A) people were mad at him getting hurt and by far moreso because he was an Idzik pick.

[RoadFan]

It is okay to be on the Milliner bandwagon now that Idzik is gone.

Cheap seats on that bandwagon if it fills up because Milliner is asking Revis questions. Maybe I will consider jumping on if I read he is successfully manning up on Decker and B-Marsh in TC and plays well early in the season.

[Spoot-Face]

Hope is good, I was simply remarking on Marshall being good enough to make bad QBs look legit.

Yeah, I agree. Hopefully he can make Geno look like a halfway decent QB.

[RoadFan]

Trading a 9th overall pick in the 1st round for a 4th or 5th round pick is as good as cutting him. There was ZERO logical reason to even think about that considering his salary, present value and what he could become. Most of it was simply, as I said because A) people were mad at him getting hurt and by far moreso because he was an Idzik pick.

Again. I disagree wholeheartedly. Don't you think the Jets SHOULD have gladly taken a 5th for Gholston or Kyle Wilson heading into year 3?

I bet the Fish are regretting not taking a 5th for Dion Jordan right now. But hey, they had "potential," right?

[Spoot-Face]

I am sure Kyle Wilson spent time shadowing Revis too...

Kyle Wilson couldn't shadow Revis's shadow on the shadiest day of his life.

[greenwichjetfan]

IMO he is the first number on the Jets since Coles!!!

 

Braylon in '09 & '10 was every bit a true #1 WR for us.

[Beerfish]

Again. I disagree wholeheartedly. Don't you think the Jets SHOULD have gladly taken a 5th for Gholston or Kyle Wilson heading into year 3?

I bet the Fish are regretting not taking a 5th for Dion Jordan right now. But hey, they had "potential," right?

No, not at all.  You don't toss away 1st round picks for almost nothing when you have no reason to.  Milliner played exceptionally well the last 5 games of his rookie season in which he was tossed to the wolves by rex.  Then the injuries crossed him up.  It would be flat out stupid to trade a guy like Milliner after two years.  We don;t even know what we have here. 

[#27TheDominator]

Tossed to the wolves = being slowly worked in and given more snaps as you show you are worthy.  Got it. 

[RoadFan]

No, not at all. You don't toss away 1st round picks for almost nothing when you have no reason to. Milliner played exceptionally well the last 5 games of his rookie season in which he was tossed to the wolves by rex. Then the injuries crossed him up. It would be flat out stupid to trade a guy like Milliner after two years. We don;t even know what we have here.

We KNOW he is injury prone. We KNOW he is coming off a devastating injury for a CB to his achilles.

You say he played "exceptionally" well. That is your opinion. I think many would disagree.

It is my opinion that his ceiling is an average #2 CB based on what I have seen from him. That may not even happen this season. His floor is far lower. He might be almost through his rookie deal before he starts playing good ball... if it even happens. I believe a 4th or 5th is reasonable to allow another team to take on the risk. Actually the better word is "hope." I think in logical terms only. Hope is for the religious nuts in a faith healing tent.

[bealeb319]

We KNOW he is injury prone. We KNOW he is coming off a devastating injury for a CB to his achilles.

You say he played "exceptionally" well. That is your opinion. I think many would disagree.

It is my opinion that his ceiling is an average #2 CB based on what I have seen from him. That may not even happen this season. His floor is far lower. He might be almost through his rookie deal before he starts playing good ball... if it even happens. I believe a 4th or 5th is reasonable to allow another team to take on the risk. Actually the better word is "hope." I think logically only. Hope is for the religious nuts in a faith healing tent.

 

What are the odds of us drafting an average #2 CB with a 4th or 5th round pick? decent cb prospects get drafted early, I think Milliner still has a shot of being above average especially now that Revis is back (look at his first season and how he improved when we brought Ed Reed into the secondary). If a team offered us a mid to late first for Milliner now I would definitely consider it but we all know that wont happen. If he plays on a limited basis and stays healthy chances are his value increases for next year and the new coaching staff will also have a better idea of what they have in the kid in the meantime might as well sit it out and see what happens.

[RoadFan]

What are the odds of us drafting an average #2 CB with a 4th or 5th round pick? decent cb prospects get drafted early, I think Milliner still has a shot of being above average especially now that Revis is back (look at his first season and how he improved when we brought Ed Reed into the secondary). If a team offered us a mid to late first for Milliner now I would definitely consider it but we all know that wont happen. If he plays on a limited basis and stays healthy chances are his value increases for next year and the new coaching staff will also have a better idea of what they have in the kid in the meantime might as well sit it out and see what happens.

Two of your points are really flawed. The first could just be a misunderstanding in context. I doubt you think a team would offer anything close to a 1st round pick for Milliner. Otherwise, you would be delusional.

The other point is not a misunderstanding. You are assuming he will reach the ceiling that I have offered. Truth is, if my evaluation is correct and that is certainly no guarantee, he will probably play at a level somewhere between an average #2 and a total injury prone bust.

Law of averages. If you believe his ceiling is higher than what I think it is, than you have a legit case that I disagree with. I doubt, however, that you would argue his floor is higher than the one I list... which is to be out of football in 2 years.

[T0mShane]

We KNOW he is injury prone. We KNOW he is coming off a devastating injury for a CB to his achilles.

You say he played "exceptionally" well. That is your opinion. I think many would disagree.

It is my opinion that his ceiling is an average #2 CB based on what I have seen from him. That may not even happen this season. His floor is far lower. He might be almost through his rookie deal before he starts playing good ball... if it even happens. I believe a 4th or 5th is reasonable to allow another team to take on the risk. Actually the better word is "hope." I think in logical terms only. Hope is for the religious nuts in a faith healing tent.

 

 

Also, the Texans should try to recoup a third rounder for Jadeveon Clowney.

[RoadFan]

Also, the Texans should try to recoup a third rounder for Jadeveon Clowney.

If the Texans think they made a mistake, absolutely.

I hate Belicheat. However, one of the very few things I respect about him is that the only thing that matters to him is production. He cuts bait with 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks the very minute he realizes they were a mistake. Sometimes in their 2nd season, sometimes even in rookie camp.

He does not carry them for years waiting for them to show signs of life... ala Vernon Gholston, Ducasse, Kyle Wilson, or Joe McKnight.

Belicheat has done this for years...

[Scoop24]

If the Texans think they made a mistake, absolutely.

I hate Belicheat. However, one of the very few things I respect about him is that the only thing that matters to him is production. He cuts bait with 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks the very minute he realizes they were a mistake. Sometimes in their 2nd season, sometimes even in rookie camp.

He does not carry them for years waiting for them to show signs of life... ala Vernon Gholston, Ducasse, Kyle Wilson, or Joe McKnight.

Belicheat has done this for years...

Joe Mcknight became a Pro Bowl Returner just saying ..

[win4ever]

There is absolutely no point in trading away Milliner for a 4th or 5th round pick.  Milliner was considered a top 15 pick, and the top CB in his class for a reason, and that's because he had very good athletic ability.  Recouping a 5th round pick is trying to get the same upside with injury prone guys.  Guys who weren't even as good as Milliner such as Aaron Colvin last year went in the 4th.  And he doesn't offer Milliner's upside and had injury problems.  So if there is a guy with a decent upside, that doesn't have injury problems, he's going close to the first round.  Prime example, Marcus Peters.  He got toasted every now and then, fought with his coaches and got kicked out by a coach that had Titus Young play for him for four seasons.  And he's still possibly going in the first round.  

 

Milliner still offers three years of relatively cheap contract, and plenty of potential.  The guy got hurt, but he also did play well in the final quarter of his rookie season (Rookie of the month, and player of the week to end it as well I believe), and was then hurt all of last year, trying to rush back from a camp injury.  It's also widely noted that CBs take about a year to adjust to the league.  So we never got to really see how good he was going to be last year.   Has he been a disappointment with the injuries?  Absolutely.  But that doesn't preclude him from being able to overcome his injuries and moving forward with his talent.  

 

With the talent that is on the team right now, he's exactly the type of guy we also need.  We don't need place holders, we need guys that can possibly develop into studs down the line so we can move on from Cro, and adjust when Revis starts his decline.  Milliner offers that top tier CB ceiling, because right now we can bring him along slowly and let him recover from his injuries, something we didn't have the luxury of doing last year, trotting out the likes of Walls/Wilson out there on a daily basis.  

 

Could he bust?  Absolutely.  But so can a top 10 pick in this year's draft.  Percentage wise, it's a better bet to hope Milliner can get healthy and play to his talents, than to hope we're going to find the next Sherman in Round 4 of any draft.  

[RoadFan]

Joe Mcknight became a Pro Bowl Returner just saying ..

He made the Pro Bowl but he wasn't a Pro Bowl caliber returner. According to Westhoff, a good returner would have had far more TDs the way some of his returns were successfully blocked. I remember reading this on JI following the 2011 season. I see little reason not to believe the source.

McKnight was the primary KR in 2011. Westhoff made many look good. Brad Smith and Leon were really good. McKnight and Justin Miller weren't.

http://www.jetsinsider.org/forums/threads/241425-My-dad-had-a-nice-conversation-with-Mike-Westhoff-this-morning

[Integrity28]

Braylon in '09 & '10 was every bit a true #1 WR for us.

The myth of Braylon is the only one more laughable than the myth of Rex

[GREENBEAN]

There is absolutely no point in trading away Milliner for a 4th or 5th round pick.  Milliner was considered a top 15 pick, and the top CB in his class for a reason, and that's because he had very good athletic ability.  Recouping a 5th round pick is trying to get the same upside with injury prone guys.  Guys who weren't even as good as Milliner such as Aaron Colvin last year went in the 4th.  And he doesn't offer Milliner's upside and had injury problems.  So if there is a guy with a decent upside, that doesn't have injury problems, he's going close to the first round.  Prime example, Marcus Peters.  He got toasted every now and then, fought with his coaches and got kicked out by a coach that had Titus Young play for him for four seasons.  And he's still possibly going in the first round.  

 

Milliner still offers three years of relatively cheap contract, and plenty of potential.  The guy got hurt, but he also did play well in the final quarter of his rookie season (Rookie of the month, and player of the week to end it as well I believe), and was then hurt all of last year, trying to rush back from a camp injury.  It's also widely noted that CBs take about a year to adjust to the league.  So we never got to really see how good he was going to be last year.   Has he been a disappointment with the injuries?  Absolutely.  But that doesn't preclude him from being able to overcome his injuries and moving forward with his talent.  

 

With the talent that is on the team right now, he's exactly the type of guy we also need.  We don't need place holders, we need guys that can possibly develop into studs down the line so we can move on from Cro, and adjust when Revis starts his decline.  Milliner offers that top tier CB ceiling, because right now we can bring him along slowly and let him recover from his injuries, something we didn't have the luxury of doing last year, trotting out the likes of Walls/Wilson out there on a daily basis.  

 

Could he bust?  Absolutely.  But so can a top 10 pick in this year's draft.  Percentage wise, it's a better bet to hope Milliner can get healthy and play to his talents, than to hope we're going to find the next Sherman in Round 4 of any draft.  

Well said. I agree completely. The good news is that Milliner can axtually sit back and ge truly healthy AND learn the system now with being 4th behind Revis, Cro and Skrine.  When he comes in he will be covering the 4th WR which should ease him in a little better than throwing him on an island covering the number 1 or 2.

 

it makes zero sense to trade him at this point unless some Al Davis type came in and offered something ridiculous.

[GREENBEAN]

The myth of Braylon is the only one more laughable than the myth of Rex

Braylon was a quality WR and a true number one.  His issues were not about ability.  

 

 

And I love him

[Integrity28]

Braylon was a quality WR and a true number one. His issues were not about ability.

And I love him

The fact that he had issues that limited his ceiling, is WHY he can't be considered a 'true #1' .

Which my be the most absurd outcry, of a great many, from our fan base.

[win4ever]

Well said. I agree completely. The good news is that Milliner can axtually sit back and ge truly healthy AND learn the system now with being 4th behind Revis, Cro and Skrine.  When he comes in he will be covering the 4th WR which should ease him in a little better than throwing him on an island covering the number 1 or 2.

 

it makes zero sense to trade him at this point unless some Al Davis type came in and offered something ridiculous.

 

Yeah, he can also learn from out of the best film study guys out there in Milliner.  It's also a tough transition from Alabama to the NFL, because the system there teaches them not to backpedal.  I believe they are taught to take the inside position and run with the WR (because back shoulder throws, and throws over the top of the CB while avoiding the safety are the toughest throws for a college QB to make), so these CBs have an adjustment period in the NFL, where QBs can routinely make those throws.  Infact, the back shoulder pass was the one that gave Milliner the most trouble I believe in his rookie season.  I know PFF isn't the bible, but just for comparison purposes, they had Milliner rated higher than Kareem Jackson and Patrick Peterson during their rookie seasons, and both of them turned it around.  Last year was basically washed out because Milliner got hurt in camp, and then clearly rushed because they put all their eggs in his basket for No. 1 CB spot.  

 

I think Revis should really help Milliner because he has the physical tools.  If he can read the WRs better, he should improve and start to reach his ceiling.  

[Dcat]

And having NO weapons can make any QB look like a moron.

Especially a QB that actually is a moron.

[Dcat]

Braylon in '09 & '10 was every bit a true #1 WR for us.

I beg to differ. In his 12 games for the Jets in 09, he had 541 yds and 4 TDs. That projects to about 720 yds and 5 TD for a full 16 games. In 2010 he had 904 yds and 7 TDS over the full season. Better than 09, but at best a #2 WR stat line. And I thought JI overrated Edwards! I see the Edwards delusion infected JN as well.

[GREENBEAN]

The fact that he had issues that limited his ceiling, is WHY he can't be considered a 'true #1' .

Which my be the most absurd outcry, of a great many, from our fan base.

The reason for the outcry is our void of real receivers for however long it's been between them. I grew up with Wesley Walker and Toon and the on;y real guys we had since them I can count on one hand in Keyshawn, Chrebet, Coles, Moss (not so much with the Jets) and Braylon. Maybe if we had some more to count against it would be more of a true guage.

 

That being said Braylon on the field for that year and a half for us he was a true number one.

[GREENBEAN]

I beg to differ. In his 12 games for the Jets in 09, he had 541 yds and 4 TDs. That projects to about 720 yds and 5 TD for a full 16 games. In 2010 he had 904 yds and 7 TDS over the full season. Better than 09, but at best a #2 WR stat line. And I thought JI overrated Edwards! I see the Edwards delusion infected JN as well.

Let's not forget that we had the number one rushing offense in '09 and sanchez as a rookie QB. Much of the same in '10.  Those numbers are number one WR numbers on a Rex ground and pound team.

[bealeb319]

Two of your points are really flawed. The first could just be a misunderstanding in context. I doubt you think a team would offer anything close to a 1st round pick for Milliner. Otherwise, you would be delusional.

The other point is not a misunderstanding. You are assuming he will reach the ceiling that I have offered. Truth is, if my evaluation is correct and that is certainly no guarantee, he will probably play at a level somewhere between an average #2 and a total injury prone bust.

Law of averages. If you believe his ceiling is higher than what I think it is, than you have a legit case that I disagree with. I doubt, however, that you would argue his floor is higher than the one I list... which is to be out of football in 2 years.

 

No I am not delusional, we will not get anything close to a first rounder for him if we traded him now, I think next year even if he is injured again we could get a 4-5th for him just based off the fact that he was a pretty good prospect coming out of college and someone would be willing to give him a shot. There is a chance he gets hurt again and his career ends short and that is something I could live with, I would rather him bust as a Jet than give him up for a 5th round pick and see him play well.