#27TheDominator Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Hmm, I didnt know that. Was that really on top of your head like that or did you google that then play the sarcastic card? lol. I research a lot of stuff, but I sure didn't have to look this up. It was one thing a bunch of us thought Gholston had in his favor. The D was fine with him starting. Better than fine. Borderline dominant, even if the only play we can remember Gholston making was him running down CJ2K after a long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 The fact that he had issues that limited his ceiling, is WHY he can't be considered a 'true #1' . him having issues that prohibited him from reaching his potential is all anyone needs to know about him as a so-called #1 WR True, Michael Irvin, TO, and Randy Moss were never a so-called #1 WR. Doc Gooden was never a #1 pitcher. Lawrence Taylor was never a #1 defender. That damned ceiling is so hard to reach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 This can not be considered a true comparison when including the type of team Braylon played on. We led the league in both rushing attempts and yards the first year as well as remained high in both categories the second. Our team was notoriously GROUND AND POUND. Add to that he was traded here during the season and had a learning curve to over come. Stat guys always make me laugh. I routinely argue with a guy who brings up Tony Romo's stats vs the other top QB's in the league yet the guy can't win a playoff game. Via the stats Romo is one of the greatest QB's of all time. Stats are easily representative of the point you are trying to make while excluding major factors that can't be measured. Your stat states that Braylon had 53 receptions and 102 targets. I'd love to see the number of drops he had and if it was 49 drops. If not then it just might lend itself to meaning that 40 plus potential receptions were bad passes. Hmmmmmm imagine that. the impact of the 2 players are miles apart. Decker missed how many games then at end of season had a stat padding game with 200 + years where the opponenet didnt show up to play did Decker also have yards in the Tenn game where Tenn was trying to hand the game to the jets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIJetsFan Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Though I agree with you overall, I hate when people state "someone is considered a 1st round/top 15/top CB for a reason". People get evaluations wrong. There are enough 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th round superstars to prove that, furthermore, there are a sh*t LOAD of 1st round busts to show that sometimes that reason doesnt hold weight. I think we should keep Milliner but it has nothing to do with his draft position or what he was projected to be, it has to do with the fact that Bowles uses his secondary as a primary in his defense and we need depth, and Milliner is definitely depth with upside. Saying that someone is "top 15 or best CB in their class for a reason" isnt really giving a legit reason, especially when the player is years removed from that projection. In addressing the bold above, the evaluators got a guy like Vernon Gholston totally wrong. He never produced. OTOH Milliner has shown that is more than capable of excelling at this position (even if only in spurts). So the evaluators were credible in his case. The only worry with Milliner IMHO is his injury history. That hardly makes him 4th-5th round trade bait. I seriously believe that anyone who says to trade Milliner at this point in his career for a 4th-5th is trolling (not directed at you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I research a lot of stuff, but I sure didn't have to look this up. It was one thing a bunch of us thought Gholston had in his favor. The D was fine with him starting. Better than fine. Borderline dominant, even if the only play we can remember Gholston making was him running down CJ2K after a long run. Well in that case, keen memory sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Boils down to your definition. Was Coles a #1? Coles had two "big" years to Braylon's one. Was Cotchery? Cotchery isn't far off. Physically Edwards was more imposing and probably demanded more coverage, so in that respect sure. A guy like Chrebet might have similar numbers, but he still is just a flashlight. I loved Coles but never thought of him that way. I always thought he needed help. Drawing coverage is one of the main aspects of what I would consider a number 1 WR. Once again, Not measurable. a WR taking up a CB and safety would be a very beneficial fella to have on the squad. Truth be told I'm not even sold on the true number 1 crap entirely. It all depends on what the team is doing really. Braylon on most teams in the league for the first 5-6 years of his career would have been the number one guy. That's what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 These are Braylon's stats from his almost 2 years with us. These are stats that a true #1 WR puts up in one season. Not 28 games. 28 games 88 receptions 174 targets 1,445 yards 11 TDs Here is a side-by-side comparison between Eric Decker who was slammed as "NOT a TRUE #1" by many of the same people that insist Braylon is a true #1. Eric Decker 15 games 74 rec 115 targets 962 yards 5 TDs Braylon's best year with us 16 games 53 rec 102 targets 904 yards 7 TDs Either Decker IS a true #1, or Braylon isn't.... or this sub-set of our fans have no ******* idea what they are clamoring for. But wait, Geno Smith was the quarterback; those stats can't be right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 In addressing the bold above, the evaluators got a guy like Vernon Gholston totally wrong. He never produced. OTOH Milliner has shown that is more than capable of excelling at this position (even if only in spurts). So the evaluators were credible in his case. The only worry with Milliner IMHO is his injury history. That hardly makes him 4th-5th round trade bait. I seriously believe that anyone who says to trade Milliner at this point in his career for a 4th-5th is trolling (not directed at you). I totally agree with Milliner being worth much more than a 4th/5th and shouldnt even be considered for a trade unless something comes around that we just cant walk away from. I've just never been a fan of the "because its been said, it must be so" type position. I like when people come with their own conclusions on why the feel a certain way. Not saying you dont, I'm just more interested in your point of view than the experts. I get it alot with Glennon. The famous line..."If he's so good then why is the Bucs looking to draft a QB"? As if the quality you see in a guy has anything to do with the decisions that a front office makes that is obviously out of the hands of the guy being discussed. Its just one of those statements that adds nothing to the topic. lol. But I dont see the need to trade Milliner at this point. Its nice to have the type of depth at the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 These are Braylon's stats from his almost 2 years with us. These are stats that a true #1 WR puts up in one season. Not 28 games. 28 games 88 receptions 174 targets 1,445 yards 11 TDs Here is a side-by-side comparison between Eric Decker who was slammed as "NOT a TRUE #1" by many of the same people that insist Braylon is a true #1. Eric Decker 15 games 74 rec 115 targets 962 yards 5 TDs Braylon's best year with us 16 games 53 rec 102 targets 904 yards 7 TDs Either Decker IS a true #1, or Braylon isn't.... or this sub-set of our fans have no ******* idea what they are clamoring for. Nice rebuttal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 the impact of the 2 players are miles apart. Decker missed how many games then at end of season had a stat padding game with 200 + years where the opponenet didnt show up to play did Decker also have yards in the Tenn game where Tenn was trying to hand the game to the jets? I always crack up when I read stuff like this. Either the stats count or they don't. You can cherry pick and rationalize all you want. The bottom line is in an injury plagued season with no other real weapons on offense for most of the season, he had a pretty decent season. Once he got healthy, and we added another weapon in Harvin, his stats started to improve. Those are the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Schroy Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Especially a QB that actually is a moron. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I always crack up when I read stuff like this. Either the stats count or they don't. You can cherry pick and rationalize all you want. The bottom line is in an injury plagued season with no other real weapons on offense for most of the season, he had a pretty decent season. Once he got healthy, and we added another weapon in Harvin, his stats started to improve. Those are the facts. keep drinking that koolaid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Milliner has already shown that if he can stay healthy; he can cover top receivers in this league. The last month or so of his rookie season, you could see what he is capable of. Now with no real pressure, he can focus on getting 100% healthy and learning from the best in the game. Yet, some geniuses want to trade the guy for a 4th or 5th round pick..... . The lack of patience by some fans, is truly maddening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 keep drinking that koolaid Keep feeling you have to be right rather than except the facts. It is okay to accept when you are wrong; it doesn't make you less of a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Schroy Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 You know jet fans have the typical knee jerk reaction to most things. This guy should be our mascot. Is that Glennons face there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I liked Braylon but don't think he was a #1. My arbitrary thoughts on this is a true # 1 should have 1000+ yards and approaching 100 catches or more. Did Braylon ever have 75 catches in a season? He was a good player and I was happy to have him but the Jets didn't have a real number 1 at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Keep feeling you have to be right rather than except the facts. It is okay to accept when you are wrong; it doesn't make you less of a man. I except the fact that the combo of Decker and Marshal is one of the best tandem since Toon and Walker I still would not mind adding cooper. disclosure I did not read another of the threads before this comparison so have no idea whats you talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Is that Glennons face there? With a neck the length of a shin? Still too short Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Is that Glennons face there? No. I dont know the name of the Jets mascot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadetree Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Milliner has already shown that if he can stay healthy; he can cover top receivers in this league. The last month or so of his rookie season, you could see what he is capable of. Now with no real pressure, he can focus on getting 100% healthy and learning from the best in the game. Yet, some geniuses want to trade the guy for a 4th or 5th round pick..... . The lack of patience by some fans, is truly maddening. I'll remain patient because he's cheap, not because he excelled when healthy because he didn't. He sucks. He showed flashes, sure, but c'mon, you saw what everyone else saw. He was beaten like a rented mule time and time again!! He can't cover the best receivers in the league, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I actually did argue that Decker was a #1. Because not all #1s are alike. Context is a crazy idea. So did I. None of this explains your boner for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I'll remain patient because he's cheap, not because he excelled when healthy because he didn't. He sucks. He showed flashes, sure, but c'mon, you saw what everyone else saw. He was beaten like a rented mule time and time again!! He can't cover the best receivers in the league, either. You have a short or selective memory my friend. Check this video that focuses on the last 3 - 4 games of the 2013 season.... in particular his match up against Josh Gordon; you know, one of the best receivers in the league at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 So did I. None of this explains your boner for me. Easssy killa, my boners need no explanation. Next time, step ya game up, or simply don't come at me with what you yourself described as "moot" points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Easssy killa, my boners need no explanation. Next time, step ya game up, or simply don't come at me with what you yourself described as "moot" points. Should've been mute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Should've been mute? Nah on this particular point, I think he's right. Moot it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loluchka80 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 cut revis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Easssy killa, my boners need no explanation. Next time, step ya game up, or simply don't come at me with what you yourself described as "moot" points. Oh nooo, I'm so sorry it's the Moops, the correct answer is, the Moops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Oh nooo, I'm so sorry it's the Moops, the correct answer is, the Moops. LOL. +∞ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Easssy killa, my boners need no explanation. Next time, step ya game up, or simply don't come at me with what you yourself described as "moot" points. Why is moot in quotes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSfaninNE Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 In addressing the bold above, the evaluators got a guy like Vernon Gholston totally wrong. He never produced. OTOH Milliner has shown that is more than capable of excelling at this position (even if only in spurts). So the evaluators were credible in his case. The only worry with Milliner IMHO is his injury history. That hardly makes him 4th-5th round trade bait. I seriously believe that anyone who says to trade Milliner at this point in his career for a 4th-5th is trolling (not directed at you). I think all this talk about trading him for a later pick was spurned from my comments. I didn't think at the time to specify but I was talking about trading him AFTER this year if he once again is injured or can't stay on the field or show he cares about proper conditioning of his body. No way in hell would I trade him this year. He definitely gets 1 more year in my books. Although when all is said and done and both Milliner and McDougle are healthy I think McDougle outshines Milliner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Why is moot in quotes? Cuz I was quoting you, silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFreak89 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Why is moot in quotes? because it's spelled "mute"......idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win4ever Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Though I agree with you overall, I hate when people state "someone is considered a 1st round/top 15/top CB for a reason". People get evaluations wrong. There are enough 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th round superstars to prove that, furthermore, there are a sh*t LOAD of 1st round busts to show that sometimes that reason doesnt hold weight. I think we should keep Milliner but it has nothing to do with his draft position or what he was projected to be, it has to do with the fact that Bowles uses his secondary as a primary in his defense and we need depth, and Milliner is definitely depth with upside. Saying that someone is "top 15 or best CB in their class for a reason" isnt really giving a legit reason, especially when the player is years removed from that projection. While it's not the be all and end all of a discussion, it needs to be factored in as well. Usually the picks are made after plenty of research, and based on upside/downside and the relative percentages at which they'll achieve those upsides. And generally, first round picks are more successful players than second round picks by percentages. Ofcourse there are players that buck the trend in both directions. However, by being picked in the first, it shows that teams did think the guy had the upside, with a lower downside (doesn't mean the guy can't bust, just percentage wise) than the guys picked behind him. Since he was a top 15 pick, the teams believed in his upside, and his physical prowess, so the upside is there, now it's a matter of downside. With the injuries, his downside has increased higher than initially expected, lowering his value. But my point was that, it still hasn't lowered enough to the point of trading him for a mid round pick, because those guys get there via a decreased upside or a high number in downside, so we wouldn't gain anything, and risking the upside with Milliner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 You have a short or selective memory my friend. Check this video that focuses on the last 3 - 4 games of the 2013 season.... in particular his match up against Josh Gordon; you know, one of the best receivers in the league at the time. Dude went HAM that last month of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Dude went HAM that last month of the season. Exactly.. Wait what does that even mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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