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Don't get this Leonard Williams pick at all


Sully28
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Wilkerson - Williams - Richardson - /Coples

 

     Harris                           Davis  

 

Cromartie Skrine                                  Revis

                        Pryor             Gilchrist

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It does lead to a precarious situation... If we trade Mo now, we lose a lot of leverage from the fact that we appear to need to get rid of him... If we keep him and Bowles stays with the 3-4, which he said he will in the post-draft presser, we have one of these d-line studs on the bench except for the occasional 4-3 package... I'm very curious to see how this plays out. I also think there are a few high caliber players on the board at both WR and OLB, and think we could still land a 1st round talent with our 2nd rounder.

Edited by NYJetsVets91
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Wilkerson - Williams - Richardson - /Coples

 

     Harris                           Davis  

 

Cromartie Skrine                                  Revis

                        Pryor             Gilchrist

Pace will get a lot of reps too on 1st/2nd down.  Steady as a rock and the coaches love him.

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So we now shall play a 5 - 1 - 5

Wilkerson. Williams. Harrison. Coples. Richardson.

Demario Davis

Revis. Cromartie.

Skrine

Pryor

Gilchrist.

 

That's about the only way this whole thing makes anything close to sense. 

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There certainly was no need on the DL. But they probably weren't filling a need with a guy who fit at #6. I questioned the Richardson pick at first, and look how that worked out. Let's give them a bit to see how they split time on the DL. Should be interesting.

 

 So if we take another DT next year in the first, are you still gonna play this card? At one point does it become overkill? when you have 9 DTs? We have Wilkerson, RIchardson, Harrison, AND Coples - ought to be playing DT as well. It's not like i'm trashing Williams, but at some point you have to look at your roster and say, ya that's not necessary. 

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Wilkerson - Williams - Richardson - /Coples

Harris Davis

Cromartie Skrine Revis

Pryor Gilchrist

I have the same thing except with Harrison instead of Harris on first down.

That's what it may look like. The trade-off on 1st & 2nd down is choosing who you prefer In that defensive situation (down&distsnce) between Harrison (extra run stopper) or Harris (some coverage)-ACTUALLY Pace probably provides better coverage & Bowles GUSHED over #97

Then you have Dime backers like Jarrett & Allen as well to FURTHER disguise coverages & blitzes

This defense is going to be like some crazy Swiss Army knife.

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But we could have re-signed mo and drafted another star at 6? I don't get your math here

You would resign Mo at $90 million dollars!  Now, you have a player that will, in all estimations, be BETTER than Mo, and have him for five years cheap.  You will get something for Mo, AND the money you save paying Mo will probably be enough to go out and get a top tier QB next year, or at least another offensive weapon.

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Nope, not angry in any form.  Just intellectually and analytically in disagreement.  I presume that's still permitted, correct?

 

The Jets Offense has been (and is) one of the very worst in the NFL for most of a decade.

 

Our D, even in bad times, was Top 10 in most things other than turnovers.

 

The position he plays was already filled on our roster by a 1st round Pro-Bowler.

 

I fully appreciate and agree that a number of experts viewed him as the "BAP" non-QB.

 

I do not agree with BAP drafting and never have.  Ignoring needs and existing assets is how you end up with 3 1st rounders on your D-line and a 4 win season due to a perennially 31st ranked Offense IMO.

 

Yes, I would have drafted the WR, because our O needs vastly help far more than our D, and a WR could (stress could) be a difference maker, another D-lineman (IMO) will not be.  

 

Once again, I'm confident that if Rex Ryan had made this pick, it would be universally being panned by Jets Fans right now.  It's only popular because of the new regime and the (understandable) leeway we give them.

 

I fear (as a fan) yet more 13-3 type losses in our future.  A WR could have IMO effected that.  I simply don't see a DL doing so, even if he was BAP.

 

I'm with you.  I don't think this helps this years team as much as the WR could have.

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You would resign Mo at $90 million dollars!  Now, you have a player that will, in all estimations, be BETTER than Mo, and have him for five years cheap.  You will get something for Mo, AND the money you save paying Mo will probably be enough to go out and get a top tier QB next year, or at least another offensive weapon.

 

No offense, but it would be moronic to trade the guy who actually developed into the player you hope Williams becomes - before he becomes that guy... I'll never get the "develop a player so you can let him walk" mentality.

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No offense, but it would be moronic to trade the guy who actually developed into the player you hope Williams becomes - before he becomes that guy... I'll never get the "develop a player so you can let him walk" mentality.

I like the pick, the value, and the player. But yes, you make a valid point which I think a lot of Jets fans are currently struggling with. It's 2013 all over again with Richardson. At this EARLY POINT IN TIME OF 2015 , patience & acceptance will hopefully yield great results.

But I get ya

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Nope, not angry in any form.  Just intellectually and analytically in disagreement.  I presume that's still permitted, correct?

 

The Jets Offense has been (and is) one of the very worst in the NFL for most of a decade.

 

Our D, even in bad times, was Top 10 in most things other than turnovers.

 

The position he plays was already filled on our roster by a 1st round Pro-Bowler.

 

I fully appreciate and agree that a number of experts viewed him as the "BAP" non-QB.

 

I do not agree with BAP drafting and never have.  Ignoring needs and existing assets is how you end up with 3 1st rounders on your D-line and a 4 win season due to a perennially 31st ranked Offense IMO.

 

Yes, I would have drafted the WR, because our O needs vastly help far more than our D, and a WR could (stress could) be a difference maker, another D-lineman (IMO) will not be.  

 

Once again, I'm confident that if Rex Ryan had made this pick, it would be universally being panned by Jets Fans right now.  It's only popular because of the new regime and the (understandable) leeway we give them.

 

I fear (as a fan) yet more 13-3 type losses in our future.  A WR could have IMO effected that.  I simply don't see a DL doing so, even if he was BAP.

 

If they didn't like White, and he was far and away that BPA, then you draft him.  Next year, you let Mo walk, take that saved money and put into 2 guards, or something like that, and get a 3rd back from Mo for the comp pick.

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It's actually a fair point if trading MO. Trading Mo is more then likely going to be a wash or worse.. and say we get a mid first rounder back for him, which nets us a 2nd tier receiver or pass rusher. the Jets are likely better with Kevin White and Mo then WIlliams and someone like Strong. We do however save cap money sooner though, but meh

 

The only way this makes sense is playing em both and creating havoc

 

This. I really don't see why it's a dick move to criticize this pick if we trade Wilkerson. Williams' ceiling is not going to be a ton higher, and if we trade Wilkerson for a pick, all we're doing is inserting Williams into Wilkerson's slot, then taking a player at another position of need with way lesser value than another player we could have gotten at 6. It winds up being a lateral pick for no reason. And Maccagnan better pray that White doesn't turn into a beast.

 

Re: Money, we had it. We overpaid it to other guys i.e. Harris.

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I think soon, when the dust settles, the writing on the wall will become pretty clear.  The Jets have a surplus on the d-line and will not be handing out a Suh-like mega contract to Wilkerson.  So then it makes sense to trade Wilkerson if the price is right.  If nobody meets that price, the Jets can franchise tag him in 2016.  He might do the John Abraham thing and hold out of training camp in 2016 and just show up for the 1st game.  Then for 2017 he will be an unrestricted free agent and Leonard Williams will be a seasoned pro bowler by then, still on his cheaper rookie deal, able to replace Wilkerson flawlessly.   Then the Jets can pay Sheldon a big contract because he is a keeper.

 

Mo deserves his big multi-year contract, but after this pick, I don't know if he's getting it here.  How much big money can you really tie up on the d-line?  Jets also have to pay Snacks too.

 

I gotta wonder though: is there any team out there that would give away a 1st + give a mega-contract for Wilkerson???  What team would trade a 1st for him without the security knowing they have him for the long-term?  That is why I feel a trade is less likely than people would initially think.

 

Personally I favor keeping Mo this season, developing Williams underneath him.  Then, next season, if it looks like Rivers or Brees becomes available, you have the flexibility to let Mo walk and pay the franchise QB instead.  Otherwise if the QB is still making peanuts you can keep the d-line stacked.  Right now Maccagnan has flexibility and its the ultimate bargaining chip.

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Just dumb. What is Williams' ceiling? Let's be kind and say slightly better than Wilkerson. Now a lot of people say trade Wilkerson for a 1st. Okay, let's say that can be done, we trade in and get who? Someone who was available at 6, and options are more limited than what they would be if we picked at 6 since players are coming off the board.

Different Scenario you keep Williams and Wilkerson. You run a 4-3 now? What do you do with Harrison? How much better is this line than our 3-4 line? Still yet to be seen if that would work out with Coples, Wilkerson, Richardson, and Williams, who are all basically (3-4 ends and 4-3 tackles). Plus two years down the road let's say you re-sign Wilkerson. You then have to pay Richardson, and then you have to Williams. Everyone's cool with spending a third of our cap on the DLine when our offense is trash?

Only way this trade makes sense, is if you swing Wilkerson and some pick for Rivers. If that happens, I'll shut up and celebrate. But, I'll believe that when I see it.

You obviously can't blindly pick by need in the draft, but this notion that you have to take the best player available no matter what isn't right either, as proven by this pick.

If you believe he's just mo at his peak, I understand but most don't agree not to mention mo wants 16 million per year. Why don't you check this link http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/leonard-williams?id=2552486

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This. I really don't see why it's a dick move to criticize this pick if we trade Wilkerson. Williams' ceiling is not going to be a ton higher, and if we trade Wilkerson for a pick, all we're doing is inserting Williams into Wilkerson's slot, then taking a player at another position of need with way lesser value than another player we could have gotten at 6. It winds up being a lateral pick for no reason. And Maccagnan better pray that White doesn't turn into a beast.

 

Re: Money, we had it. We overpaid it to other guys i.e. Harris.

The money is a big issue. The front office has been reluctant to pay Wilk. There must be a reason for that.

This year, the team can field a monster DL. They can weather injuries without any dropoff in talent. They can assess everyone, and address Wilk after the season. If they decide to move on from him, expecting a late first-rounder back would be reasonable. Couple that with an extra $14M or so to spend in free agency, and you've picked up two solid starters (and maybe a star or two) for Wilkerson and his cap room without any decline at his position.

I'm a huge fan of BAP drafting. This is a prime example of how it works. White would've pleased a lot of people, but the value pick was Williams. Williams was not only rated higher than White everywhere, but also considered to be significantly safer. This was a great pick.

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It seems that the minority of people who hate this pick hate the BPA strategy.

 

That is how you are supposed to draft.

Exactly. This was a classic example of BPA. Textbook. I applaud this GM. You never know what happens with injuries poor performance etc.

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I appreciate this kid was well considered, "best" non-QB pick in the draft so some say.  It's not a bad pick in any form on that metric.

 

What I don't understand, and have never supported, is picking BAP without consideration of need.

 

Put simply, DL was not in any form a need.  Rex makes this pick, the entire Board (IMO) is against it.

 

It's very hard to see how the addition of this player will make any difference in our record the next 2-4 years tbqh.

 

The franchise is decades of deferred and desperate need on offense.  QB (the most vital position) is a weakness.  Our problem continues to be scoring, not defense.

 

And WR was available that was appropriate for the selection.

 

Yet we went D, and DL at that.

 

I'm glad everyone seems happy.  I'm not angry.

 

I simply wouldn't have made this pick, I'd have picked a WR.

 

 

Very good post.  Although I do feel like this was the pick they had to make - can't leave that level of talent on the board but I totally get what you're saying.

 

I found myself hoping Washington would take Williams....I wanted White - but knew we had to Williams if he was there.

 

 

 

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I'm a huge fan of BAP drafting. This is a prime example of how it works. White would've pleased a lot of people, but the value pick was Williams. Williams was not only rated higher than White everywhere, but also considered to be significantly safer. This was a great pick.

 

If BAP in rd 2 is DT, do you take him?

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I am just waiting for the B grades to come out, and everyone attacks the "dumb" media, forgetting that the only reason they think Williams is the best prospect is because of that same "dumb" media

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at the end of the day i would rather have a Talented Surplus than draft a Bust based on reaching for needs..Assets gives teams Flexibility. jets pretty much have all the Leverage when it comes to Mo situation right now. 

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I am just waiting for the B grades to come out, and everyone attacks the "dumb" media, forgetting that the only reason they think Williams is the best prospect is because of that same "dumb" media

 

i have seen a lot of A+  and A grades so far

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I am just waiting for the B grades to come out, and everyone attacks the "dumb" media, forgetting that the only reason they think Williams is the best prospect is because of that same "dumb" media

Given it is Day 1 after the draft this is an A rated pick for the Jets simply because this is BPA which is what you are suppose to do. Redskins picked an OT just before the Jets. The consesus is they " reached" ie bypassed a overall better talent for need. Doesn't mean he won't be successful. Just the limitations of judging Day 1 draft picks one day after. Williams was rated by all coaches and press to be a massive talent.

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at the end of the day i would rather have a Talented Surplus than draft a Bust based on reaching for needs..Assets gives teams Flexibility. jets pretty much have all the Leverage when it comes to Mo situation right now. 

this.  how many top jet draft picks have sucked over the years?  i'm at the point, where I say 'I want offense, but please, just draft a good player'.  there's nothing worse than deflating a fan base by drafting players who suck (gholston). 

 

I imagine the 2nd and 3rd rounds will be devoted to offense, though I still don't see them going rb in the 2nd given the depth there.  I imagine the 2nd round is wr or ot, and then either qb or rb in the 3rd.  truth i'd be happy if they avoided qb in the 1st 3 rounds and just stacked up on as much talent as they can.  good players make your team better, bad players make your team worse. 

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this. how many top jet draft picks have sucked over the years? i'm at the point, where I say 'I want offense, but please, just draft a good player'. there's nothing worse than deflating a fan base by drafting players who suck (gholston).

I imagine the 2nd and 3rd rounds will be devoted to offense, though I still don't see them going rb in the 2nd given the depth there. I imagine the 2nd round is wr or ot, and then either qb or rb in the 3rd. truth i'd be happy if they avoided qb in the 1st 3 rounds and just stacked up on as much talent as they can. good players make your team better, bad players make your team worse.

I'm fine with going offense rd 2 and 3 . But I'm perfectly fine with Rolling the Dice on Gregory if he is there at #37

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Just dumb. What is Williams' ceiling? Let's be kind and say slightly better than Wilkerson. Now a lot of people say trade Wilkerson for a 1st. Okay, let's say that can be done, we trade in and get who? Someone who was available at 6, and options are more limited than what they would be if we picked at 6 since players are coming off the board. 

 

Different Scenario you keep Williams and Wilkerson. You run a 4-3 now? What do you do with Harrison? How much better is this line than our 3-4 line? Still yet to be seen if that would work out with Coples, Wilkerson, Richardson, and Williams, who are all basically (3-4 ends and 4-3 tackles). Plus two years down the road let's say you re-sign Wilkerson. You then have to pay Richardson, and then you have to Williams. Everyone's cool with spending a third of our cap on the DLine when our offense is trash?

 

Only way this trade makes sense, is if you swing Wilkerson and some pick for Rivers. If that happens, I'll shut up and celebrate. But, I'll believe that when I see it.

 

You obviously can't blindly pick by need in the draft, but this notion that you have to take the best player available no matter what isn't right either, as proven by this pick.

 

The Williams pick makes tons of sense, His ceiling could be Suh and he can play in the middle of our line with Wilk and Richardson on the sides, maby we look to trade off snacks now. The most important thing is Mac said he was going BPA and he landed the player most scouts claim is the best in the draft and certainly one of if not the safest pick in this draft. Lets compare for a second 2014 Idzik takes best player available Pryor....many people were upset as he was not ranked bpa on anyones board at the time. No reason to be upset this kid is something special, I suggest watching his tape (not just highlight films) kid is an absolute monster and if we keep Wilk our D-line could force Brady into an early retirement.

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If BAP in rd 2 is DT, do you take him?

 

Luckily, that's unlikely. I think if the Jets were choosing between Cooper and Williams at #6, they would've gone with Cooper because the prospects would've been ranked closely, but WR was the bigger need. But when they were on the clock, there weren't any prospects closely rated to Williams. It was the right pick. 

 

Next round, seems unlikely that a DT would again be that far ahead of the rest of the field. I would, however, not hesitate to take an Eli Howard if he was on the top of my draft board. I wouldn't force a pick on offense just because I drafted defense in the first round. I'd go BAP straight down my draft board, with need being the tie-breaker. 

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You my friend is clueless when it comes to football. When Seattle won their Super Bowl it was all about defense.

For once we agree. Williams was the right pick and a steal. I would have preferred Kevin White but if we get DGB at 37 I will come in my pants.

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Luckily, that's unlikely. I think if the Jets were choosing between Cooper and Williams at #6, they would've gone with Cooper because the prospects would've been ranked closely, but WR was the bigger need. But when they were on the clock, there weren't any prospects closely rated to Williams. It was the right pick. 

 

Next round, seems unlikely that a DT would again be that far ahead of the rest of the field. I would, however, not hesitate to take an Eli Howard if he was on the top of my draft board. I wouldn't force a pick on offense just because I drafted defense in the first round. I'd go BAP straight down my draft board, with need being the tie-breaker. 

 

Another important point is that the Jets used every second of their ten minutes to turn in the pick which you would have to assume means they were attempting to find the right trade partner, I think they were as shocked as I was when the skins took Sherff and Williams fell in our laps. All of a sudden losing that game to the Titans looks like it may have paid off (we wouldn't have landed in the number two slot in the draft if we lost anyway and likely still would have lost out on Mariota)

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