Good Bye Gino, we're glad to see you go !!!

[ChuckkieB]

How can he be an unknown commodity , according to your premise a QB is either instantly good or bad - so which one do you label Petty as. 

 

And as far as Geno goes, we'll see what he can do with real weapons for the first time and with a coaching staff that doesn't treat the pass as something you only do in desperation. 

 

Petty is an unknown commodity at the NFL level.  No matter what a player's college press clippings say about him, no matter what his pedigree is, and no matter what all of the "experts" think about him, you never really know what you have until the player gets a chance to play at the NFL level.  If Petty gets a chance to play in a year or so down the road, we will know pretty quickly what kind of QB he is.

[Arsis]

Gyno Smith can can take a long walk off a short pier.

[56mehl56]

Petty is an unknown commodity at the NFL level.  No matter what a player's college press clippings say about him, no matter what his pedigree is, and no matter what all of the "experts" think about him, you never really know what you have until the player gets a chance to play at the NFL level.  If Petty gets a chance to play in a year or so down the road, we will know pretty quickly what kind of QB he is.

So you believe no QB ever develops after playing a year or two and that different coaching, systems etc... have no effect on that development.  Just as an example look at Alex Smith on the Niners pre and post  Harbaugh staff. 

 

I feel  Geno and Sanchez both had the ability to become quality starting Qb's . Our prior HC and staff made that a moot point , let's see if Geno can be saved under a new  HC and new offensive philosophy.

[CaliforniaJet]

Fitz

Geno

Petty

 

Cut Simms

[Bocajetfan]

So you believe no QB ever develops after playing a year or two and that different coaching, systems etc... have no effect on that development.  Just as an example look at Alex Smith on the Niners pre and post  Harbaugh staff. 

 

I feel  Geno and Sanchez both had the ability to become quality starting Qb's . Our prior HC and staff made that a moot point , let's see if Geno can be saved under a new  HC and new offensive philosophy.

Totally agree. Sanchez started out showing potential and fell victim to a fall-off of O-line talent and depleted weapons. Geno has more weapons today but O-line protection is still suspect.

[joewilly12]

How can he be an unknown commodity , according to your premise a QB is either instantly good or bad - so which one do you label Petty as. 

 

And as far as Geno goes, we'll see what he can do with real weapons for the first time and with a coaching staff that doesn't treat the pass as something you only do in desperation. 

This guy gets it.

[ChuckkieB]

So you believe no QB ever develops after playing a year or two and that different coaching, systems etc... have no effect on that development.  Just as an example look at Alex Smith on the Niners pre and post  Harbaugh staff. 

 

I feel  Geno and Sanchez both had the ability to become quality starting Qb's . Our prior HC and staff made that a moot point , let's see if Geno can be saved under a new  HC and new offensive philosophy.

 

Of course QB's can develop, but as I said, most of the time, it is the QB's that come into the league and are good right away that have the ability to get coached up and develop into even better, sometimes, great QB's. Alex Smith is the exception to the rule as far as I'm concerned, but generally speaking, QB's that come into the league and play bad usually stay bad, and then disappear. 

 

Sanchez had 4 years to start on the Jets, and his production went backwards every year, and is now likely going to be a backup for the rest of his career.  Geno had 2 years, and might get a 3rd, but that will be it for him.  If he craps the bed, he will be fighting to get a backup contract somewhere in the NFL after his Jets contract expires.

[keysersoze]

I will be the first one here calling for petty to come in once geno throws his first interception.

[ChuckkieB]

Totally agree. Sanchez started out showing potential and fell victim to a fall-off of O-line talent and depleted weapons. Geno has more weapons today but O-line protection is still suspect.

 

 

Good QB's elevate the play of everyone around them, no matter what the level of personnel is. Sanchez and Geno Smith haven't been able to do that, and they never will.  When you have to rely on the personnel around your QB to elevate THEM, I think that's an indictment of the kind of player that is QB'ing your team. 

[section314]

Good QB's elevate the play of everyone around them, no matter what the level of personnel is. Sanchez and Geno Smith haven't been able to do that, and they never will.  When you have to rely on the personnel around your QB to elevate THEM, I think that's an indictment of the kind of player that is QB'ing your team.

Well put.If a QB can' t elevate the team, he's useless.

[slats]

I disagree.  In the modern day NFL, there are two kinds of QB's - good ones and bad ones.  The good ones come into the league and are instantly good, and with some good coaching, some go on to be great. The bad ones come into the league and are bad, no matter how much they are coached up.  Geno is a bad QB, and no amount of coaching is going to make him much better than he is right now.  Who was the last QB to be drafted over the last 10-15 years that came into the league and was TERRIBLE for two years and then all over a sudden turned it around and became a good, productive QB?  Not too many, if any.  There's plenty of QB's, however, that came into the league, were given an opportunity to start, played like crap for a few years, and then disappeared off the face of the earth. Geno Smith is going to be one of those QB's.  Look, I hope I'm wrong, and will be rooting as hard as anyone for Geno if he gets the starting nod this year, but my expectations for him are very low. 

 

Petty is an unknown commodity, and we will know what kind of QB he is after he gets his chance to start whenever that might be down the road.  If he never gets his chance, we'll have our answer too.

 

Meh. Biggest problem with Geno was throwing him right into the starting lineup as a rookie. He was no better equipped than Petty will be come September. He was a pistol QB who should've had a full year to learn the position (at least!) before being pushed into the fire. And the problem with him now is largely confidence. He hasn't displayed enough of the mental toughness/resiliency to bounce back from bad plays. I don't like how he heads off on his own on the sidelines after a pick or fumble. He needs to keep it together better, but I don't know if he can. I do believe he'll get every opportunity to be the opening day starter, though. 

 

He can never get that first year back, but hopefully Gailey and a nice collection of weapons helps him get to at least average. Drew Brees had a shaky first couple years after getting to sit as a rookie. He turned it around okay. Not that I expect (or can even reasonably hope) that Geno becomes the next Drew Brees, but it's not entirely unprecedented. 

[ChuckkieB]

Meh. Biggest problem with Geno was throwing him right into the starting lineup as a rookie. He was no better equipped than Petty will be come September. He was a pistol QB who should've had a full year to learn the position (at least!) before being pushed into the fire. And the problem with him now is largely confidence. He hasn't displayed enough of the mental toughness/resiliency to bounce back from bad plays. I don't like how he heads off on his own on the sidelines after a pick or fumble. He needs to keep it together better, but I don't know if he can. I do believe he'll get every opportunity to be the opening day starter, though. 

 

He can never get that first year back, but hopefully Gailey and a nice collection of weapons helps him get to at least average. Drew Brees had a shaky first couple years after getting to sit as a rookie. He turned it around okay. Not that I expect (or can even reasonably hope) that Geno becomes the next Drew Brees, but it's not entirely unprecedented. 

 

Geno was done no favors by being pushed to start during year 1 as you said, and I think the new regime is smart enough to have Petty ride the pine for at least a year before he gets a shot, if he even gets a shot at all.  The problem is hoping that with weapons around him and a good OC, we are hoping to get Geno to be at least AVERAGE, as you put it.  The Jets need to find a QB that is better than average, someone that they can consider their franchise QB for the next 10 years and lead this team to the playoffs and keep the team competitive year after year.  I just don't think the QB is Geno Smith.  If he gets another shot this year, I hope he proves me wrong.

[slats]

Geno was done no favors by being pushed to start during year 1 as you said, and I think the new regime is smart enough to have Petty ride the pine for at least a year before he gets a shot, if he even gets a shot at all.  The problem is hoping that with weapons around him and a good OC, we are hoping to get Geno to be at least AVERAGE, as you put it.  The Jets need to find a QB that is better than average, someone that they can consider their franchise QB for the next 10 years and lead this team to the playoffs and keep the team competitive year after year.  I just don't think the QB is Geno Smith.  If he gets another shot this year, I hope he proves me wrong.

 

I think Geno gets a shot because I think he still has a much higher ceiling than Fitzpatrick - who will never be the long term answer. Geno improved last year in comp%, TD%, and int%. If he can further cut down on the turnovers, and throw more TDs than ints this year, get his comp% into the low 60s, I think the Jets can win more than they lose with him under center. 

 

And if he completely flops, Fitzpatrick will be asked to manage games this season, and Petty will be invited to challenge for the starting job next year. 

 

I have no love for Geno, it's just that I have no hate for him, either. At a minimum, I expect him to start a couple preseason games while they figure it out. I still think he's the front-runner to start opening day, too. 

[56mehl56]

I will be the first one here calling for petty to come in once geno throws his first interception.

And you will be falling into the same trap Rex did , in rushing a QB into the lineup before he was ready. No reason to have Petty play this season unless there are multiple injuries or the Jets are out of playoff contention early.

[56mehl56]

Good QB's elevate the play of everyone around them, no matter what the level of personnel is. Sanchez and Geno Smith haven't been able to do that, and they never will.  When you have to rely on the personnel around your QB to elevate THEM, I think that's an indictment of the kind of player that is QB'ing your team. 

Disagree completely about a QB making everyone else better. With the exception of maybe 4 or 5 QB's in this league every other is buoyed by their gameplans and system, their skill set players and their offensive lines. 

 

The skill set players Sanchez had around him a few years back would have made the Manning's, Brady's, Rodgers of the league look pedestrian.  Guys like Chaz Schilens, the Hill's, Mardy Gilyard, Jeff Reuland, David Nelson these guys wouldn't start on many arena football league rosters. 

[Bocajetfan]

Good QB's elevate the play of everyone around them, no matter what the level of personnel is. Sanchez and Geno Smith haven't been able to do that, and they never will.  When you have to rely on the personnel around your QB to elevate THEM, I think that's an indictment of the kind of player that is QB'ing your team.

It is next to impossible to elevate players when you have little to elevate. Ask Archie Manning and more recently David Carr. I would not put Mark or Geno in their class coming out. I would though but the Jets talent equal or below the Saints of Archies era and Houston when Carr arrived.

[56mehl56]

Geno was done no favors by being pushed to start during year 1 as you said, and I think the new regime is smart enough to have Petty ride the pine for at least a year before he gets a shot, if he even gets a shot at all.  The problem is hoping that with weapons around him and a good OC, we are hoping to get Geno to be at least AVERAGE, as you put it.  The Jets need to find a QB that is better than average, someone that they can consider their franchise QB for the next 10 years and lead this team to the playoffs and keep the team competitive year after year.  I just don't think the QB is Geno Smith.  If he gets another shot this year, I hope he proves me wrong.

This is a whole different argument.  Without a doubt the Jets need a franchise QB its the most important position in the game.  The problem is those types of players don't become readily available unless your teams are awful for many seasons or you get flat out lucky. I like the approach the Jets took in this draft , grab a guy who has measureables but is a question mark , they may get lucky but at least they've given it a shot.

[JohnnyLV]

I think Geno gets a shot because I think he still has a much higher ceiling than Fitzpatrick - who will never be the long term answer. Geno improved last year in comp%, TD%, and int%. If he can further cut down on the turnovers, and throw more TDs than ints this year, get his comp% into the low 60s, I think the Jets can win more than they lose with him under center. 

 

And if he completely flops, Fitzpatrick will be asked to manage games this season, and Petty will be invited to challenge for the starting job next year. 

 

I have no love for Geno, it's just that I have no hate for him, either. At a minimum, I expect him to start a couple preseason games while they figure it out. I still think he's the front-runner to start opening day, too. 

 

Gailey's offense in scheme, language, reads, less timing routes, more spread concepts and deep routes AND better weapons will be dramatically better for Geno. Even if Geno is exactly the same QB as last year his performance will be dramatically better. And Gailey changes his offense to specifically maximize the talents of the players he had. MM is a good OC, but the super complicated timing based West Coast offense was a terrible fit for Geno, and to make it worse he was thrown in head first with no weapons, had a horrible coach in David Lee, and had to also deal with Rex trying to force wildcat and power running concepts into an offense that had no fit for it.

 

I think Geno will show marked improvement in 2015. Unlike other years though under Rex, we have a competent veteran to go to, and a quite skilled developmental QB in place if he doesn't.

[JohnnyLV]

Disagree completely about a QB making everyone else better. With the exception of maybe 4 or 5 QB's in this league every other is buoyed by their gameplans and system, their skill set players and their offensive lines. 

 

The skill set players Sanchez had around him a few years back would have made the Manning's, Brady's, Rodgers of the league look pedestrian.  Guys like Chaz Schilens, the Hill's, Mardy Gilyard, Jeff Reuland, David Nelson these guys wouldn't start on many arena football league rosters. 

 

David Nelson and Greg Salas who we were happy made the team last year have been signed by no one.

[Vinny16]

Gailey's offense in scheme, language, reads, less timing routes, more spread concepts and deep routes AND better weapons will be dramatically better for Geno. Even if Geno is exactly the same QB as last year his performance will be dramatically better. And Gailey changes his offense to specifically maximize the talents of the players he had. MM is a good OC, but the super complicated timing based West Coast offense was a terrible fit for Geno, and to make it worse he was thrown in head first with no weapons, had a horrible coach in David Lee, and had to also deal with Rex trying to force wildcat and power running concepts into an offense that had no fit for it.

 

I think Geno will show marked improvement in 2015. Unlike other years though under Rex, we have a competent veteran to go to, and a quite skilled developmental QB in place if he doesn't.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Yes, Geno has played poorly, but he's also showed, at times, some flashes of being able to play well in the NFL, all while running a system that he was a terrible fit for, for an overrated OC, and while being coached by quite possibly the worst QB coach in the NFL.  He has the physical tools, and I think he has (at times) shown himself to have the kind of mindset needed to be an NFL QB.  If he goes out there this year and shows no improvement and continues to turn the ball over, then you cut ties with him.  But, if he does show a good deal of improvement and proves to be comfortable in Gailey's offense, then it's worth keeping him around and continue to develop him right alongside Petty. 

 

He should at least be given a shot this year because, as you said, it's evident that Fitzpatrick isn't the long term solution.  That can't even be argued.  Geno is almost certainly not it either, but there's still a small chance that he could be, so he has to at least get a shot to compete against the guy who clearly isn't.

[ChuckkieB]

Disagree completely about a QB making everyone else better. With the exception of maybe 4 or 5 QB's in this league every other is buoyed by their gameplans and system, their skill set players and their offensive lines. 

 

The skill set players Sanchez had around him a few years back would have made the Manning's, Brady's, Rodgers of the league look pedestrian.  Guys like Chaz Schilens, the Hill's, Mardy Gilyard, Jeff Reuland, David Nelson these guys wouldn't start on many arena football league rosters. 

 

There is no doubt that game plans, systems, and skilled players will help ANY QB be better, but I don't believe for one second that it turns a bad QB into a good QB. Geno Smith as shown too many bad traits as a starting QB that I don't believe all pros at every position will be able to fix.