Dcat Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 So Brady is appealing. Question: Who now adjudicates his appeal? Is it Goodell? I always thought it was insane to have the same person who doles out the punishment in the first place then adjudicate the appeal. There's no way the penalty can be objectively evaluated if it's the same damned person hearing the appeal. I thought, after the Ray Rice debacle, that the NFL was supposed to put together a committee to manage such cases/appeals and such would no longer be in Goodell's power. On appeal, what if Brady provides no new evidence? Can the adjudicator demand that Brady provide evidence (i.e. cell phone)? Can the adjudicator ask for testimony from the equipment patsies that were fired? If Brady brings nothing new into evidence, then what grounds would there be to reduce the penalty? If more damning evidence is introduced, can the adjudicator increase the penalty? Doesn't the NFL suspend players 4 weeks for PEDs because it has an impact on the field (unfair advantage)? Why would this be any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 So Brady is appealing. Question: Who now adjudicates his appeal? Is it Goodell? I always thought it was insane to have the same person who doles out the punishment in the first place then adjudicate the appeal. There's no way the penalty can be objectively evaluated if it's the same damned person hearing the appeal. I thought, after the Ray Rice debacle, that the NFL was supposed to put together a committee to manage such cases/appeals and such would no longer be in Goodell's power. On appeal, what if Brady provides no new evidence? Can the adjudicator demand that Brady provide evidence (cell phone). If Brady brings nothing new into evidence, then what grounds would there be to reduce the penalty? Doesn't the NFL suspend players 4 weeks for PEDs because it has an impact on the field (unfair advantage)? Why would this be any different? Brady hands over a "Burner Phone" Probably will be an "Independent" arbitrator..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Question: Who now adjudicates his appeal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 You know who won't be adjudicating the appeal? TX. Not because he's banned, but because he never went to law school. Obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 What I wanna know is if his suspension can be increased upon appeal. I was hoping it'd start at the 8-10 game range, and get chiseled down to maybe six from there. Four is light, and he should be happy with it. Also be interesting if new evidence could implicate others *coughBelicheatcough* Troy Vincent handled the first round, maybe just so Goodell could handle the appeal. Part of the punishment was allegedly because Brady -and the entire Patriots organization- failed to fully comply with the investigation. Don't see how they could even consider being more lenient with Brady without him turning over his phone. I think that's where it would get interesting. There's not a single doubt in my mind that he was in communication with Belichick and Kraft while he was texting the locker room guys. Love to see what those texts say. All of which is why I don't see his appeal having any success. It's already too short, and he's not going to cooperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 What I wanna know is if his suspension can be increased upon appeal. I was hoping it'd start at the 8-10 game range, and get chiseled down to maybe six from there. Four is light, and he should be happy with it. Also be interesting if new evidence could implicate others *coughBelicheatcough* Troy Vincent handled the first round, maybe just so Goodell could handle the appeal. Part of the punishment was allegedly because Brady -and the entire Patriots organization- failed to fully comply with the investigation. Don't see how they could even consider being more lenient with Brady without him turning over his phone. I think that's where it would get interesting. There's not a single doubt in my mind that he was in communication with Belichick and Kraft while he was texting the locker room guys. Love to see what those texts say. All of which is why I don't see his appeal having any success. It's already too short, and he's not going to cooperate. I was honestly thinking the same thing. What Brady, Kraft and all their people and Pats fans do not seem to get is that Brady is being punished as much for lying and trying to cover it up as he was for actually deflating the balls. Those are bells than cannot be un-rung. He has handled this so badly nothing would surprise me at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Brady hands over a "Burner Phone" Probably will be an "Independent" arbitrator..... I doubt burner phone will get any where. The moment Brady says yes to investigation, he's getting raped. NFL has his phone number n the data is most likely not in the actual phone but in his phone records from the provider (ATT, Verizon or Shady Mobiles). He has to agree and give permission to get those records. That cheater is doomed in my opinion. Has ZERO grounds to win the appeal, but I don't doubt for a second he'll get the punishment reduced on the grounds that Goodell has Krafts deflated balls in his hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 All along I've thought Brady would get 2 games, and on appeal it would be reduced to 1. But, after reading Troy Vincent's letter, I'm not so sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It's becoming more and more A-Rod and Armstrong like now...Continue to fight and deny when the whole world knows you're guilty. Nobody believes you didn't cheat - the continued lack of remorse is just making things worse...I think it's the ego on these guys must be so overwhelming that they can't even admit to themselves that they've been caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I was honestly thinking the same thing. What Brady, Kraft and all their people and Pats fans do not seem to get is that Brady is being punished as much for lying and trying to cover it up as he was for actually deflating the balls. Those are bells than cannot be un-rung. He has handled this so badly nothing would surprise me at this point. Obviously they didn't go to law school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 All along I've thought Brady would get 2 games, and on appeal it would be reduced to 1. But, after reading Troy Vincent's letter, I'm not so sure... Honestly, on what grounds will he appeal? He cheated, lied, obstructed the investigation and tried to cover it up...There's no way around any of those facts, any appeal would just make things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 What I wanna know is if his suspension can be increased upon appeal. I was hoping it'd start at the 8-10 game range, and get chiseled down to maybe six from there. Four is light, and he should be happy with it. Also be interesting if new evidence could implicate others *coughBelicheatcough* Troy Vincent handled the first round, maybe just so Goodell could handle the appeal. Part of the punishment was allegedly because Brady -and the entire Patriots organization- failed to fully comply with the investigation. Don't see how they could even consider being more lenient with Brady without him turning over his phone. I think that's where it would get interesting. There's not a single doubt in my mind that he was in communication with Belichick and Kraft while he was texting the locker room guys. Love to see what those texts say. All of which is why I don't see his appeal having any success. It's already too short, and he's not going to cooperate. Thats what I dont get. Doesnt the appeal lead to further investigation. Is he now going to cooperate? Feel like he might be opening himself up to more scrutiny and potential evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It is up to Goodell whether he handles the appeal or it will go to outside arbitrator. Brady defense- all circumstance evidence- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 What I wanna know is if his suspension can be increased upon appeal. I was hoping it'd start at the 8-10 game range, and get chiseled down to maybe six from there. Four is light, and he should be happy with it. Also be interesting if new evidence could implicate others *coughBelicheatcough* Troy Vincent handled the first round, maybe just so Goodell could handle the appeal. Part of the punishment was allegedly because Brady -and the entire Patriots organization- failed to fully comply with the investigation. Don't see how they could even consider being more lenient with Brady without him turning over his phone. I think that's where it would get interesting. There's not a single doubt in my mind that he was in communication with Belichick and Kraft while he was texting the locker room guys. Love to see what those texts say. All of which is why I don't see his appeal having any success. It's already too short, and he's not going to cooperate. Yes, I agree. I asked that question yesterday, and someone said it can be. I do not remember who. Fact is, I think the gravity of the suspension has more to do with his lying and arrogance than it does with deflation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It is up to Goodell whether he handles the appeal or it will go to outside arbitrator. Brady defense- all circumstance evidence- True, but he is not being tried for a crime. He is being censured for his conduct int he NFL. Traditional courtroom rules do not apply, although people have been executed on circumstantial evidence in the past. Just saying..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFCEastFan Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Honestly, on what grounds will he appeal? He cheated, lied, obstructed the investigation and tried to cover it up...There's no way around any of those facts, any appeal would just make things worse. His agent hinted at one of them during one of the stops on his pathetic tour-de-outrage. The argument is that if the NFL doesn't have subpoena power over its players, they can't create de facto subpoena power by punishing players for not turning over information that could otherwise only be obtained via subpoena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeaniec Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Love it!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Honestly, on what grounds will he appeal? He cheated, lied, obstructed the investigation and tried to cover it up...There's no way around any of those facts, any appeal would just make things worse. Haha I don't know. I'm a lawyer, but because evidentiary standards between an actual court of law and the NFL's CBA (which I haven't even read aside from the salary cap ramifications) are SO different, I couldn't even begin to make a prediction. The only thing I'm going off of is that Troy Vincent's scathing letter speaks pretty strongly to the "conduct detrimental to the league" argument, which has gotten a bunch of guys suspended in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It is up to Goodell whether he handles the appeal or it will go to outside arbitrator. Brady defense- all circumstance evidence- Actually, I think his defense in its entirety is, DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Actually, I think his defense in its entirety is, DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!?!? The Golden Boy of the NFL that cheats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeaniec Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 If Brady is smart, he will take the fall and let this die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Schroy Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I was listening to Mad Dog Sports this morning and the guy loves the Pats. He said there was no evidence to suspend etc.... He believes absolutely that the suspension will be at least reduced and even eliminated. However, a good question is; How does Brady defend himself without opening himself up to more scrutiny? Is his lawyer just going to say, "He didn't do it and you have no proof" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleSlugger25 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 If Brady is smart, he will take the fall and let this die. Exactly. The punishment for Brady was very fair considering the "coverup." Virtually zero chance the suspension gets reduced. There was way too much time and effort put into this for the league to later say "Meh, it wasn't so bad." If he had gotten 8 games i could have seen a reduction to 6, but to go to anything less than 4 games would look weak on the part of the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Taking the punishment = an admission of guilt. This is not going to die. Do you think the announcers will be silent about it on the Thursday season opener when Garoppolo is taking snaps against the Steelers? It is not going to die until October-November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeaniec Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Taking the punishment = an admission of guilt. This is not going to die. Do you think the announcers will be silent about it on the Thursday season opener when Garoppolo is taking snaps against the Steelers? It is not going to die until October-November. Excellent point about taking the punishment = an admission to guilt. It may very well be that he is appealing for just this reason. I also agree that this will be a topic of discussion for some time to come. However, I think the appeal will just add more fuel to the fire or cause the story to remain in the forefront instead of the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The league's image is totally in the sh*tter right now, precisely because of its handling of disciplinary issues. I'd bet Goodell goes the independent arbitrator route just to save face, in which case all of this may be thrown out, and probably will be, because **** us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prime21 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Give over your phone and it could possibly implicate others who may have known. Imagine a text to a WR or QB coach? Others may have known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Give over your phone and it could possibly implicate others who may have known. Imagine a text to a WR or QB coach? Others may have known. If it is that blatant wouldn't everyone have to know? It's not like you can't feel the ball is different. That should include the refs which is where it starts getting ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The league's image is totally in the sh*tter right now, precisely because of its handling of disciplinary issues. I'd bet Goodell goes the independent arbitrator route just to save face, in which case all of this may be thrown out, and probably will be, because **** us. You would think... but I would think an independent arbiter would then ask "if you had exculpatory evidence on your phone, why not volunteer it to clear your name?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 the brady camp decided from day 1 to deny what they did, for the sole purpose of protecting Brady's legacy. They do not want "cheater" associated with his legacy. This proved to be a mistake. They have now dug themselves a huge hole and have to continue down the path of vehement denial. The appeal will not produce diddley squat from Brady's phone. It will be a super expensive team of lawyers whose sole purpose will be to find faults in the report to protect Brady's legacy.The main focus of the appeal will be the pressure guages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greensince69 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It is up to Goodell whether he handles the appeal or it will go to outside arbitrator. Brady defense- all circumstance evidence- Hernandez was all circumstantial, he will never leave jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Hernandez was all circumstantial, he will never leave jail. The all circumstantial evidence claim is for the fans. It is something for them to hang their hats on. Perception - like the if the glove does not fit, you must acquit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munchmemory Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 If I'm Brady's attorney? I call every living NFL QB to the stand and ask them if they ever doctored balls. Somewhere in this quagmire lies the fact that this "tampering" with footballs has been, and is, commonplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 What I wanna know is if his suspension can be increased upon appeal. I was hoping it'd start at the 8-10 game range, and get chiseled down to maybe six from there. Four is light, and he should be happy with it. Also be interesting if new evidence could implicate others *coughBelicheatcough* Troy Vincent handled the first round, maybe just so Goodell could handle the appeal. Part of the punishment was allegedly because Brady -and the entire Patriots organization- failed to fully comply with the investigation. Don't see how they could even consider being more lenient with Brady without him turning over his phone. I think that's where it would get interesting. There's not a single doubt in my mind that he was in communication with Belichick and Kraft while he was texting the locker room guys. Love to see what those texts say. All of which is why I don't see his appeal having any success. It's already too short, and he's not going to cooperate. I agree that it should not be reduced. They could have gone much harsher on him. But I'm having trouble remembering instances where punishments weren't reduced, at least a little bit, as a result of an appeal. Doesn't it pretty much always happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LWC611 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Haha I don't know. I'm a lawyer, but because evidentiary standards between an actual court of law and the NFL's CBA (which I haven't even read aside from the salary cap ramifications) are SO different, I couldn't even begin to make a prediction. The only thing I'm going off of is that Troy Vincent's scathing letter speaks pretty strongly to the "conduct detrimental to the league" argument, which has gotten a bunch of guys suspended in the past. If you are dealing with grieving discipline, the NFL would have to demonstrate that the suspension for 4 days is for just cause. In fact in a disciplinary hearing even though the grievant (Brady) files to trigger the hearing the NFL will put on its case first. The rules of evidence are not strictly applies in arbitration. The burden of proof should be a preponderance of the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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