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is Lebron the best player since MJ?


is he?  

10 members have voted

  1. 1. best player since MJ?

    • Shaq (3x Finals MVP, 4x Champ, 1x MVP)
      0
    • Duncan (3x Finals MVP, 5x champ, 2x MVP)
      5
    • Lebron (2x Finals MVP, 4x MVP)
      5


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Definitely.  Jordan could have carried them in that moment too.  Curry was awful.  Never him seen him that bad.  And for all the love Bron gets for passing to the open man, Jordan did it too. Steve Ke

Magic was fake as ****. It was gross how much he played to the cameras. Total douche.

The LeBron groupies are something else especially the media...game 1: "LeBron screwed because no bench", game 2: Dalavedova is money well spent for Cleveland I don't remember any athlete in this c

It has to be Duncan, hands down.

 

My ranking is since MJ:

 

1. Duncan

2. Shaq

3. Kobe

4. LeBron

 

LeBron cannot even be considered to move up on the list until he wins 2 more titles.  Duncan and Kobe have 5 titles while Shaq has 4.  I rank Shaq over Kobe because Shaq was the best player on the Lakers for 3 of Kobe's 5 championships.

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I'm starting to think Lebron > MJ

People today don't understand now but MJ kind of considered a choker because in the 80's he never got past those Larry Bird Celtic teams and lost to the Bad Boys Pistons. It wasn't until 1991 when the Pistons got old and Magic Showtime Lakers got old he started winning championships.

After that his top competition was Patrick Ewing and a bunch of CBA guys coached up by Pat Riley.

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i think people sleep on having to beat the Jazz twice in the finals though

The Stockton/Malone teams were good but they're not the 80's Lakers or Celtics. Jordan also had great supporting casts Pippen, Rodman, Horace Grant in his prime.  Ron Harper was an extremely underrated defender.

 

MJ's strongest argument is the #6.  Lebron is in amazing shape and could play another 12 years if he wanted to.  Can he get 4 more titles in that timespan?

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LBJ may very well be better but can't say that now when MJ has 4 freakin more championships. That can't be ignored.

Sure it can. Russell has 5 more than Jordan and the only people who would put Russell over Jordan are Massholes.

That said. I think Lebron's ceiling is 2nd or 3rd all time. Lebron actually is a better player if we're just talking technical basketball. But, I dunno. He's just not Jordan.

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I'm starting to think Lebron > MJ

People today don't understand now but MJ kind of considered a choker because in the 80's he never got past those Larry Bird Celtic teams and lost to the Bad Boys Pistons. It wasn't until 1991 when the Pistons got old and Magic Showtime Lakers got old he started winning championships.

After that his top competition was Patrick Ewing and a bunch of CBA guys coached up by Pat Riley.

Anyone thinking MJ was a choker didn't understand the game. He was phenomenal but couldn't carry average talent to the top

The Bulls became perennial champs when Pippen matured and started contributing 4 digits worth of points to compliment MJ.

When that happened it didn't matter what Detroit's age was - in 89-90 the Bulls took the Bad Boys to 7 games and lost. When Scottie came on strong the following year - they took'em down 4-0.

Pippen's growth into an all-star put the Bulls over the top.

Lebron always had a strong supporting cast in his success,

What we're seeing in these play-off's is LBJ's ability to take command of the game without respect to who's on the floor with him - I mean they can't be and aren't slugs - but I don't know that I've seen 1 player domination like this since Russell or Wilt.

If he keeps it up - he'll get his ring this year.      

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Anyone thinking MJ was a choker didn't understand the game. He was phenomenal but couldn't carry average talent to the top

The Bulls became perennial champs when Pippen matured and started contributing 4 digits worth of points to compliment MJ.

When that happened it didn't matter what Detroit's age was - in 89-90 the Bulls took the Bad Boys to 7 games and lost. When Scottie came on strong the following year - they took'em down 4-0.

Pippen's growth into an all-star put the Bulls over the top.

Lebron always had a strong supporting cast in his success,

What we're seeing in these play-off's is LBJ's ability to take command of the game without respect to who's on the floor with him - I mean they can't be and aren't slugs - but I don't know that I've seen 1 player domination like this since Russell or Wilt.

If he keeps it up - he'll get his ring this year.      

 

This is what always struck me as odd about the early criticisms of Lebron, and any good player stuck with nobody. When has any great player ever carried average talent to a title? When has that ever happened? Literally zero times. Those early Cleveland teams Lebron played on were TERRIBLE.

 

Jordan lost to Boston because they had four hall of famers and Jordan had Charles Oakley and literally nobody else. No team in history has ever won a championship with a John Paxson as their third best player. Meanwhile he still hung 63 on them. If that's choking then I don't know what the hell playing well is.

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Lebron still has at least another 10 years left in his career. See how many more championships he gets then compare. Jordan is the greatest scorer of all-time but Lebron may go down as the greatest all around player.

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You know why? And I love watching Lebron. But the dude quit on his team twice in the playoffs. Flat out quit. I'm sorry, but that's the real thing that can't be ignored. He never gets to live that down.

Only time I remember him quitting was 2010 after his teammate banged his mom

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2 additional reasons why LeBron can't really ever top Jordan.  1 is factual, the other is more subjective:

 

1.  In his prime, Jordan went 6 for 6 in titles. 

 

2.  LeBron never had that special "something".  Jordan just took over his building and transcended the game.  LeBron is a special player, but doesn't have that kind of magic/aura or whatever you want to call it. 

 

Jordan became larger than life, even if his play became somewhat overrated because of it.  It's not like Jordan was out there curing cancer.  But he was the clear best at his craft.  Even if he never took down Bird/Magic/early 90's Pistons he was already a thorn in the sides of those teams early on.  Can't fault him for not quite being in his prime yet when the NBA first really took off in the 80's.

 

Duncan is far more accomplished than LeBron and, much like Russell, his winning % is incredible.  That puts him in the top 4/5.  But LeBron is just such a complete player, I feel it's acceptable to rank him ahead of Duncan.  Not Russell just yet, however.

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Is my history all ****ed up...I thought Jordan took down the Pistons on the way to taking down the Magic lead Lakers for his first Championship?  Granted Kareem was gone but it was still Magic, Worthy, Scott and what Perkins and Vlade?

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Is my history all ****ed up...I thought Jordan took down the Pistons on the way to taking down the Magic lead Lakers for his first Championship?  Granted Kareem was gone but it was still Magic, Worthy, Scott and what Perkins and Vlade?

 

You're right, they swept the Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals in '91, then beat the Lakers in 5.

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2 additional reasons why LeBron can't really ever top Jordan.  1 is factual, the other is more subjective:

 

1.  In his prime, Jordan went 6 for 6 in titles. 

 

2.  LeBron never had that special "something".  Jordan just took over his building and transcended the game.  LeBron is a special player, but doesn't have that kind of magic/aura or whatever you want to call it. 

 

Jordan became larger than life, even if his play became somewhat overrated because of it.  It's not like Jordan was out there curing cancer.  But he was the clear best at his craft.  Even if he never took down Bird/Magic/early 90's Pistons he was already a thorn in the sides of those teams early on.  Can't fault him for not quite being in his prime yet when the NBA first really took off in the 80's.

 

Duncan is far more accomplished than LeBron and, much like Russell, his winning % is incredible.  That puts him in the top 4/5.  But LeBron is just such a complete player, I feel it's acceptable to rank him ahead of Duncan.  Not Russell just yet, however.

 

I cant put LeBron over Jordan, Magic, Bird or Duncan, personally.  Mainly because he had to leave his team and form a super team to finally win it all but also because he's quit on his team numerous times in the playoffs. 

 

Interesting story; my company every year at our National Sales conference has a guest speaker.  We've had some greats.  Cal Ripken Jr., The entire Harbaugh family (dad included) after the SB where they faced each other, Geno Auriemma (which was the biggest train wreck I've ever witnessed) and some others.  One year when the meeting was in Anaheim, Magic was the guest speaker.  He was my childhood idol.  The reason I got into hoops.  So I was ecstatic to say the least.

 

Ironically this meeting was on the heels of the "the decision".  So during the Q&A portion of his speech, our entire Cleveland office stood up and asked Magic, what do you think about LeBron's decision?  Magic got all animated, started loosening up his shoulders, took office his blazer and started getting heated....saying, LeBron?, LeBron?, LeBron?  phewwwww....let me tell you what I think about LeBron's decision....you know who wouldnt have left Cleveland to go form a super squad?  Michael Jordan would have left Chicago, Larry Bird wouldnt have left Boston, Magic Johnson wouldnt have left L.A., Isiah would have never left Detroit...and this man, this man...this man was basically born in Cleveland!!!  His opinion was he should have gave Cleveland an ultimatum that they either build him a championship roster in the next 3 seasons or he's gone...not just leave them high and dry like that so he go and basically manufacture a championship legacy.

 

Anyway, thought I'd share.  LeBron is unreal.  But he's not at those other guys level if you ask me...not yet at least.  He's still got a long way to go though. 

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2 additional reasons why LeBron can't really ever top Jordan.  1 is factual, the other is more subjective:

 

1.  In his prime, Jordan went 6 for 6 in titles. 

 

2.  LeBron never had that special "something".  Jordan just took over his building and transcended the game.  LeBron is a special player, but doesn't have that kind of magic/aura or whatever you want to call it. 

 

Jordan became larger than life, even if his play became somewhat overrated because of it.  It's not like Jordan was out there curing cancer.  But he was the clear best at his craft.  Even if he never took down Bird/Magic/early 90's Pistons he was already a thorn in the sides of those teams early on.  Can't fault him for not quite being in his prime yet when the NBA first really took off in the 80's.

 

Duncan is far more accomplished than LeBron and, much like Russell, his winning % is incredible.  That puts him in the top 4/5.  But LeBron is just such a complete player, I feel it's acceptable to rank him ahead of Duncan.  Not Russell just yet, however.

 

I'm not so sure winning percentage is even a fair comparison for the two. Duncan has had hall of famers in his lineup since his first day in the league. He should have wound up on a muuuuuch worse team but that was the year Robinson and Elliot got hurt. Which is crazy. The Spurs have missed the playoffs once (once!) over the last 25 years and it turns out to be the one year Tim Duncan is the #1 overall. He got drafted onto that great Spurs team with Elliot, Admiral, Avery Johnson...etc. already had a history of going deep into the playoffs. Those guys start to fade and then they luck into Parker and Manu. I love Duncan as a player, but it's impossible to disagree that he's benefited from this.

 

Meanwhile Lebron gets drafted by a team that hadn't made the playoffs in like 5 years, and when he finally managed to carry them there his two best players are Ilgauskas and Larry Hughes.

 

People forget quickly. That last year before the decision, after he had carried that franchise for 7 years the best Ferry was able to give him were the ghosts of Shaq and Antawn Jamison and the incomparable Mo Williams. Sooner or later enough was enough. The guy was in his late 20s and nobody ever wins championships on their own.

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1. Jordan

2. Russell

3A. Lebron

3B. Magic

4. Kareem

5A. Duncan

5B. Bird

I thought the discussion was about since Jordan.

Also, the problem with the Russell analogy was thst Russell was not the best player on those 11 championships.

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It has to be Duncan, hands down.

My ranking is since MJ:

1. Duncan

2. Shaq

3. Kobe

4. LeBron

LeBron cannot even be considered to move up on the list until he wins 2 more titles. Duncan and Kobe have 5 titles while Shaq has 4. I rank Shaq over Kobe because Shaq was the best player on the Lakers for 3 of Kobe's 5 championships.

Interesting point on Shaq, there was a 2-3 year span when he was literally unguardable almost to the point where the other team might as well not show up, he was that good. LeBron and Duncan are so good at everything for so long, tough arguement.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Interesting point on Shaq, there was a 2-3 year span when he was literally unguardable almost to the point where the other team might as well not show up, he was that good. LeBron and Duncan are so good at everything for so long, tough arguement.

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Exactly. Shaq was just so dominant in that stretch where he won 3 straight Finals MVPs. He was something like 30/15 in every Finals game that stretch.

LeBron is definitely going to go up on that list. The debate will be on him and Duncan and who deserves to be on top.

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Exactly. Shaq was just so dominant in that stretch where he won 3 straight Finals MVPs. He was something like 30/15 in every Finals game that stretch.

LeBron is definitely going to go up on that list. The debate will be on him and Duncan and who deserves to be on top.

 

Shaq was the most dominate player in the league for a while.  Literally unstoppable.  He didnt have the patent move like Kareem or the Dream but he just couldnt be guarded, like at all.

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Shaq was the most dominate player in the league for a while. Literally unstoppable. He didnt have the patent move like Kareem or the Dream but he just couldnt be guarded, like at all.

Shaq and Kobe in their primes early 2000's made the nba just unwatchable for a while because nobody could even compete with them.
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Shaq and Kobe in their primes early 2000's made the nba just unwatchable for a while because nobody could even compete with them.

 

Kings did. And game 6 was probably the most rigged game in the history of sports.

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Kings did. And game 6 was probably the most rigged game in the history of sports.

I have no idea how the media let David Stern get away with claiming that Tim Donaght was a "rogue" referee.

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Shaq and Kobe in their primes early 2000's made the nba just unwatchable for a while because nobody could even compete with them.

 

except for the NBA Finals game where Kobe went 4-20 with 8 points lol

 

 

Kobe had some awful playoff moments that his fans want us to forget 

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I have no idea how the media let David Stern get away with claiming that Tim Donaght was a "rogue" referee.

 

he got his rich elite media friends to bury the story as much as they could.  it still got talked about but imagine if that was the NFL instead....

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