Jet Fan RI Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 they do reference it. The CBA grants the Commissioner—and only the Commissioner—the authority to impose conduct detrimental discipline on players. CBA, Art. 46, § 1(a); id., App. A, ¶ 15. This express CBA mandate is further confirmed by the “law of the shop.” See Rice Art. 46 Appeal Decision (“Rice”) at 15; Bounty Art. 46 Appeal Decision (“Bounty”) at 4. Indeed, whereas the CBA expressly authorizes the Commissioner to delegate his authority to serve as Hearing Officer over Article 46 appeals, after consultation with the NFLPA, it contains no corresponding provision authorizing the Commissioner to delegate his exclusive role to impose conduct detrimental discipline to you or anyone else. You have no authority to impose discipline on Mr. Brady under the CBA, and such discipline must therefore be set aside.1 OK. But no where does it say explicitly that the commissioner cannot levy a penalty via a surrogate. That is, it does not explicitly forbid delegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I'm not a lawyer - but my father and sister are...the only other factor would be NEW evidence that would exonerate Brady....so unless they have someone (like the fired deflate ball boy - like they have an incentive) say Brady knew nothing about it, I would like to know what this new evidence would be, I agree... The letter is very telling in the fact that there is nothing exonerating Brady contained in it. That is while I think the letter was well written it doesn't mean it will win. But it is a thousand times better then Yeeeeee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedAwesome Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 What evidence incriminates Brady? None. You think someone calling themselves "The Deflator" in May was code for a conspiracy to take place nine months later. And that's the totality of your evidence lol. The Wells Report doesn't even accuse Brady of any specific crime. It says it was "more probable than not that he was generally aware that something was happening." lololol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedAwesome Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Did Brady deflate the Colt balls too, or did the weather and environment deflate the Colt balls and evil Brady-cheating deflated the Patriot ones? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Brady's and the team's refusals to cooperate are enough to levy the punishments. That the team and it's most important player are repeat offenders only adds to it. Even Goodell might be rightly pissed after what he did for them in Spygate. I've little doubt he communicated something to the effect of, "Don't put me in this position again or I'll have to nail you no matter what. Just don't cheat anymore and it'll never come up." After the prior year Goodell had, he's not dumb enough to not give the majority of NFL fans what they want, which would only further endanger his $40M+/year gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 That is probably going to be their main argument Vincent did not have the authority to hand down discipline. main argument is inconsistent and disparate punishment. if they get troy's penalty set aside, goodell enacts the same exact thing minutes later on his own letterhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 What evidence incriminates Brady? None. You think someone calling themselves "The Deflator" in May was code for a conspiracy to take place nine months later. And that's the totality of your evidence lol. The Wells Report doesn't even accuse Brady of any specific crime. It says it was "more probable than not that he was generally aware that something was happening." lololol No, it shows that the conspiracy (your words, thanks for that) has been going on a very, very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 After Goodell cuts their legs out from under them on the appeal, this is going nowhere. In terms of an argument worth pursuing in Federal Court, Brady and crew have ugatz. Moreover, they have a $hitload of risk while being under oath. Phuck him in the other ear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rep Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Goodell should tell them they are right and as a result is changing the penalty to the whole season because he has to make the decision. And then appoint Vincent as the arbitrator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Goodell should tell them they are right and as a result is changing the penalty to the whole season because he has to make the decision. And then appoint Vincent as the arbitrator. Not possible. Pay attention and keep up if you want to play with the adults. Otherwise, grab your shine box and go back to the kiddy table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 What evidence incriminates Brady? None. You think someone calling themselves "The Deflator" in May was code for a conspiracy to take place nine months later. And that's the totality of your evidence lol. The Wells Report doesn't even accuse Brady of any specific crime. It says it was "more probable than not that he was generally aware that something was happening." lololol You can't be that stupid. Well, maybe you can. Obviously this has been going on for a long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rep Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Not possible. Pay attention and keep up if you want to play with the adults. Otherwise, grab your shine box and go back to the kiddies table. It is not possible for an arbitrator to extend the punishment. But that's not what I'm suggesting. They are claiming that Vincent didn't have the authority to hand down punishment. Therefore, it is technically possible for Goodell to agree, as the commissioner, not the arbitrator, that he incorrectly delegated authority, and, as commissioner, hand down a new penalty. Then Tom Brady can appeal again. If the Patriots are indeed correct, no true punishment has been handed down yet, as only Goodell has the authority to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 It is not possible for an arbitrator to extend the punishment. But that's not what I'm suggesting. They are claiming that Vincent didn't have the authority to hand down punishment. Therefore, it is technically possible for Goodell to agree, as the commissioner, not the arbitrator, that he incorrectly delegated authority, and, as commissioner, hand down a new penalty. Then Tom Brady can appeal again. If the Patriots are indeed correct, no true punishment has been handed down yet, as only Goodell has the authority to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I think Goodell should call them on this bluff. Rescind the current penalties and then impose a new ruling. I think bringing the game into disrepute just went up a few notches this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rep Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Please explain oh great one. The patriots say that Goodell is the only one with authority. Goodell has not made a ruling yet. How does he not have the ability to exercise the authority that only he has when he has not yet exercised that authority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlife33 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 You can't be that stupid. Well, maybe you can. Obviously this has been going on for a long time They really can be that stupid, they really can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebabyny Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 main argument is inconsistent and disparate punishment. if they get troy's penalty set aside, goodell enacts the same exact thing minutes later on his own letterhead. Actually that brings up an interesting situation. Apparently an appeal can not lead to a lengthier punishment, only upholding or lessening. But if they are successful in their argument that Vincent is not eligible to have ever handed down a punishment to begin with, does that mean that Vincent's ruling is therefore null and as you say Goodell gets to do a do-over and come up with a fresh ruling on his own? Therefore kicking the whole process back to the beginning and letting Goodell have the ability to hand down a stiffer penalty, and then of course allowing for another appeal where Goodell could just appoint himself to preside over and uphold his new stiffer penalty? God let that be true, that would be the ultimate outcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebabyny Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Not possible. Pay attention and keep up if you want to play with the adults. Otherwise, grab your shine box and go back to the kiddy table. Actually as I just posted, it does seem possible that it could happen if the original decision is found to have never been legal to begin with. If it is agreed that Vincent never had the authority, that means either Brady gets off scott free (which I doubt would happen) or goodell is forced to be the one to give a ruling as if Vincent's had never been handed down and thus allow him to get a stiffer fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Actually as I just posted, it does seem possible that it could happen if the original decision is found to have never been legal to begin with. If it is agreed that Vincent never had the authority, that means either Brady gets off scott free (which I doubt would happen) or goodell is forced to be the one to give a ruling as if Vincent's had never been handed down and thus allow him to get a stiffer fine. But that is not going to happen at the appeal hearing. Goodell is not going to rule against himself regarding a process he has already deemed to be consistent with the CBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Actually that brings up an interesting situation. Apparently an appeal can not lead to a lengthier punishment, only upholding or lessening. But if they are successful in their argument that Vincent is not eligible to have ever handed down a punishment to begin with, does that mean that Vincent's ruling is therefore null and as you say Goodell gets to do a do-over and come up with a fresh ruling on his own? Therefore kicking the whole process back to the beginning and letting Goodell have the ability to hand down a stiffer penalty, and then of course allowing for another appeal where Goodell could just appoint himself to preside over and uphold his new stiffer penalty? God let that be true, that would be the ultimate outcome! If the original is set aside, goodell can absolutely "look at it from scratch" and do something more/less/equal. Goodell would almost certainly do the same exact punishment, or even less as some part of negotiated deal, but yes it could happen and would probably be the biggest balls-to-the-forehead slap in NFL history if he said "I totally disagree with Troy Vincent. His punishment was neither fair nor carefully considered. The Patriots were correct to point these deficiencies out. After reviewing the facts, I have determined that the original punishment was in error because it was far too lenient. Lifetime ban and public flogging is the new penalty." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 As I understand the CBA, Goodell absolutely has the authority to oversee this arbitration.A federal judge did slap him down on suspending Adrian Peterson indefinitely. But 4 games is not indefinitely. Suspect the NFLPA is not overjoyed to be dragged into this, the same way the MLBPA wasn't happy about Alex Rodriguez dragging them into his mess. Troy Vincent is the former president of the NFLPA. He's well-liked by everyone. Again, Brady's best tactic would have been to fall on his sword, plead that he had no idea this was a big deal and try to help the 2 working stiffs who are now out of jobs and practically unemployable. If he did that, would be hard-pressed to see how it stays at 4 games, may be gets knocked down to a fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persiussa Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 If the Patriots are so adamant than nothing untoward happened and they are appealing the decision then why are the equipment guys still suspended without pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 If the Patriots are so adamant than nothing untoward happened and they are appealing the decision then why are the equipment guys still suspended without pay? The ruling by the league said before either is reinstated it would have to be approved by the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFCEastFan Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 The ruling by the league said before either is reinstated it would have to be approved by the league. Plus the texts reveal that they cussed out Brady and were stealing shoes. So I doubt the team is in a big hurry to bring them back anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 The ruling by the league said before either is reinstated it would have to be approved by the league. Quick question: Would the league have to approve them going to TMZ and spilling the beans on old Tom Terrific? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingToMyGraveGreen Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 What evidence incriminates Brady? None. You think someone calling themselves "The Deflator" in May was code for a conspiracy to take place nine months later. And that's the totality of your evidence lol. The Wells Report doesn't even accuse Brady of any specific crime. It says it was "more probable than not that he was generally aware that something was happening." lololol Again...not trying to start a fight, but read the Well's report and substitute the Patriots for the Jets, the Jet's ball boys for the Patriots and Brady for Smith and tell me you would not be all over us saying the Jet's cheated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFCEastFan Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Quick question: Would the league have to approve them going to TMZ and spilling the beans on old Tom Terrific? No, but the mutual associates of the team and Aaron Hernandez would have to approve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebabyny Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Quick question: Would the league have to approve them going to TMZ and spilling the beans on old Tom Terrific? I would assume the Pats* have some kind of NDA held over the Deflator's and his cohort's heads blocking that from happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I would assume the Pats* have some kind of NDA held over the Deflator's and his cohort's heads blocking that from happening. Whatever Confidentiality Agreement these goofballs entered into, (NDA's are usually bi-lateral agreements with respect to information), would primarily cover trade secrets, which is hilarious in this case if cheating is defined as a trade secret. Confidentiality agreements have limits to their breadth and the very nature of this subject matter may render it unenforceable. Then there is the matter of consideration. The Pats* will argue that giving them the jobs is consideration (usually valid if they signed the agreement when the positions were obtained). Once suspended indefinitely without pay (or terminated) enforcement might become a grey area due to the lack of consideration. A subpoena is likely to trump any agreement, which makes it interesting should a case wind up in Federal Court. I am not familiar with MA law, so I am just shooting from the hip here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Whatever Confidentiality Agreement these goofballs entered into, (NDA's are usually bi-lateral agreements with respect to information), would primarily cover trade secrets, which is hilarious in this case if cheating is defined as a trade secret. Confidentiality agreements have limits to their breadth and the very nature of this subject matter may render it unenforceable. Then there is the matter of consideration. The Pats* will argue that giving them the jobs is consideration (usually valid if they signed the agreement when the positions were obtained). Once suspended indefinitely without pay (or terminated) enforcement might become a grey area due to the lack of consideration. A subpoena is likely to trump any agreement, which makes it interesting should a case wind up in Federal Court. I am not familiar with MA law, so I am just shooting from the hip here. Interesting angle I had not considered. I wonder if some enterprising lawyer might approach these guys and tell them if they have the goods on Brady/Belichick, he will represent them gratis if there is any legal action based on an NDA, provided he gets cut in sufficiently on any deal these guys might make to spill their guts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Interesting angle I had not considered. I wonder if some enterprising lawyer might approach these guys and tell them if they have the goods on Brady/Belichick, he will represent them gratis if there is any legal action based on an NDA, provided he gets cut in sufficiently on any deal these guys might make to spill their guts. I would love to see these guys turn rogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I would love to see these guys turn rogue. And if that somehow implicates Bill Belichick too... Yummy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greensince69 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Again...not trying to start a fight, but read the Well's report and substitute the Patriots for the Jets, the Jet's ball boys for the Patriots and Brady for Smith and tell me you would not be all over us saying the Jet's cheated. Well yes, and I would call him a frakin idiot that he had the guys steal the balls after the refs checked them. Just like we called him an idiot for going to the movies the night before a game in CA. Jets fans of all teams know how to be realistic about how stupid our team can be. As far as Kraft ir will be interesting what pressure the other owners will put on him at the upcoming owners meeting. He is liable to become the next Al Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 What evidence incriminates Brady? None. You think someone calling themselves "The Deflator" in May was code for a conspiracy to take place nine months later. And that's the totality of your evidence lol. The Wells Report doesn't even accuse Brady of any specific crime. It says it was "more probable than not that he was generally aware that something was happening." lololol mcnally testifying to investigators that is was Tom Brady, QB of the new england patriots **** who wears uniform #12, told him to deflate the balls incriminates the living bejeesus out of him lololol have you even read the report ? the executive summary is hugely embarrassing for the cheatriots**** read page 8 and the top of page 20 I dare ya, lolololol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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