Villain The Foe Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 And we can afford to pay him that...how? signing bonuses are a work of art my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Aw. Sorry the facts got in your way. My point is more that there is no 2nd tier. Legit starters get in the 18-20 range now. sh*t guys get $2-5M There is not much in between. Didn't Alex Smith get around $18M per? In that world how do you not pay Wilson $20M or thereabout? There is no "mid-tier" anymore. Why do people go by what other teams pay their players? Do you really think Seattle cares about what the Falcons pay Matt Ryan? Where would they be if it wasn't for Ryan? They'd finish the year 0-16. He's all they got, of course they pay him. Seattle is in a completely different situation. It's like what the Cowboys are going through right now with their running game. They let Murray walk, they wouldn't pay him what other teams were willing to pay him. Why? Because they don't have to. They can plug any back in that offense and he's gonna produce and get the job done. They're doing the smart thing. They'll be just fine. Seattle would be smart to squeeze 2-3 more years out of Wilson, draft a replacement and develop him for a couple years and then drop Wilson like a hot potato, get a 3rd round pick for compensation for losing him and then move on with the rookie or a decent FA QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Why do people go by what other teams pay their players? Do you really think Seattle cares about what the Falcons pay Matt Ryan? Where would they be if it wasn't for Ryan? They'd finish the year 0-16. He's all they got, of course they pay him. Seattle is in a completely different situation. It's like what the Cowboys are going through right now with their running game. They let Murray walk, they wouldn't pay him what other teams were willing to pay him. Why? Because they don't have to. They can plug any back in that offense and he's gonna produce and get the job done. They're doing the smart thing. They'll be just fine. Seattle would be smart to squeeze 2-3 more years out of Wilson, draft a replacement and develop him for a couple years and then drop Wilson like a hot potato, get a 3rd round pick for compensation for losing him and then move on with the rookie or a decent FA QB. Market value does not matter to you? Do you think that you can just offer guys your number and they won't think "Hey, Alex Smith got $18M (or whatever), I'm worth 20?" Developing QBs is very simple. That is why the Seahawks were doing so well, plug and play with Tavaris Jackson and Matt Flynn. They were a 7-9 team before Wilson got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Common sense does. No it doesn't. Until another QB succeeds there or Wilson falls on his face someplace else nobody has any actual reason to think that. Not sure why you do but I most certainly don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Wow. And Allen owns that team. Hope this doesn't mean he won't pay the max for LMA too. Or the Blazers are screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Market value does not matter to you? Do you think that you can just offer guys your number and they won't think "Hey, Alex Smith got $18M (or whatever), I'm worth 20?" Yes. That's why Murray decided to leave the Cowboys. And please don't act like the Seahawks had the best defense in NFL history before Wilson got there. Their defense sucked until they drafted all their impact players in 2010/2011, guys like Sherman, Maxwell, Wagner, Wright, Thomas, Thurmond, Chancellor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Jim Plunkett says hi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Hey Jim Plunkett how r u? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Jim Plunkett says I'm good. Chillin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 No it doesn't. Until another QB succeeds there or Wilson falls on his face someplace else nobody has any actual reason to think that. Not sure why you do but I most certainly don't. The Ravens have done that when they moved on from Dilfer. They plugged in the next piece of crap QB and they still made the playoffs and almost got to the superbowl. What makes you think this is any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebabyny Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Funny, the Ravens did. With hall of famers such as Trent Dilfer and a year later Elvis Grbac throwing the ball. The Seahawks have an even better defense, and a better running game. It doesn't take an elite passer to take that team to the Superbowl and I'm sure the Seahawks are smart enough to realize that. Otherwise they would have paid the guy his 20+ mil. per year. Miss the part where I said "Today's NFL?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Straw Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 And we can afford to pay him that...how? Trade Wilkerson. Stop paying guys like David Harris and Antonio Cromartie $7 million/year and $8 million/year, respectively. Done, you now have your money for Russell Wilson with a couple million/year to burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Miss the part where I said "Today's NFL?" Yeah, back then it was a different game. You know, leather helmets, no facemasks, no penalties, players barely made a living. I got you. What exactly changed anyway? You don't think the best defense in history and a prime Jamal Lewis / Adrian Peterson / Marshawn Lynch coupled with decent QB play is not enough to make the playoffs? Are you insane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 2nd tier guys like Matt Ryan and Eli Manning make... drum roll.... $20M a year. Well, actually $19.75M and $19.5M. Not worth the upgrade? I think Russell Wilson is another tier down from Ryan and Eli but I'd still pay him the $20M. It's just a matter of how valuable that position is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebabyny Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Yeah, back then it was a different game. You know, leather helmets, no facemasks, no penalties, players barely made a living. I got you. What exactly changed anyway? You don't think the best defense in history and a prime Jamal Lewis / Adrian Peterson / Marshawn Lynch coupled with decent QB play is not enough to make the playoffs? Are you insane? Right, because ever since the leather masks were put down the league has basically been the same with no rules changes hampering what defenses can do. Right. In the last few years the league has turned it into a scorers league, where teams are encouraged to throw and score and defenses are playing with kid gloves not allowed to get very physical with either the passer or receiver. The added protection afforded to the QB makes him even more valuable as he can stand back and throw with relative impunity compared to what the game once was. This is not something that is debatable, the league wants scoring, and wants to cover it's ass in the litigious times we live in. The rules instituted by the NFL and their posture towards safety have filtered all the way down to peewee and touch tackle leagues in an effort to provide safety and keep parents allowing their kids to even play the game, so you can't fault the tightening of the rules too much. So lets look at the last 12 years winning QBs in the SB, Brady Wilson Flacco Eli Rodgers Brees Ben Eli Payton Ben Brady Brady How many "Dilfers" do you see in that list? The "top defense/game manager QB" is not going to have much of a chance to win superbowls in todays NFL. But of course please exaggerate my words further talking of leather helmets and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 How many "Dilfers" do you see in that list? Umm. No. That's not how it works. The question you should ask is how many best defenses in NFL history do you see on that list, coupled with a dominant rushing attack? The answer is one. Seattle. If you think Seattle would have made it to the superbowl without that defense, without that dominant rushing attack then you're just insane. That's where the discussion ends. Brady doesn't need that, Peyton doesn't need that, Luck doesn't need that, A-Rod doesn't need that. Wilson needs every bit of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 What Wilson should do is play out his contract and make his way to free agency. He'll get his 20 million and we'll see how smart Seattle is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 The question whether WE would pay him that kind of money is not the issue. Really? Folks here were saying they would love to have him. I would assume that means that they would want the Jets to shell out 20 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 What Wilson should do is play out his contract and make his way to free agency. He'll get his 20 million and we'll see how smart Seattle is. How do you think he will like Cleveland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 What is wrong we you people?lol. Let's see you dump Harris, Dbrick & Cro Bam! There your 20 million plus! You don't need a GREAT OLINE with Wilson back there, the dudes the smartest scrambler in the league for gods sake. Our WRs & TE right now would be better than he ever played with in Seattle. He'd be SCARY good throwing to Decker & Marshall, plus someone like Smith would be hauling in bombs after he scrambles every week. If you have to you trade Mo to Acquire the best LT in the draft next year. Use your 1st or 2nd on another CB. Slip Mauldin into David Harris spot & off you go, plus you still are developing Petty! Any Jet fan that thinks Mac wouldn't jump at paying Wilson 20 million are living in a fantasy world, where QBs are growing on trees. For the guy that said "thank god your not the GM", I guess you've loved our QB position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadetree Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 You take this way too seriously with your constant projecting. I love sending you into a research tizzy over a ten second post made from my toilet. LOL..funny sh*t He's right though...Russell Wilson doesn't eye-ball- test his way to being a $20 million QB, but how does he NOT get that money when the position kinda demands it? I'll stick with "he signs for not-quite-$20M" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadetree Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Umm. No. That's not how it works. The question you should ask is how many best defenses in NFL history do you see on that list, coupled with a dominant rushing attack? The answer is one. Seattle. If you think Seattle would have made it to the superbowl without that defense, without that dominant rushing attack then you're just insane. That's where the discussion ends. Brady doesn't need that, Peyton doesn't need that, Luck doesn't need that, A-Rod doesn't need that. Wilson needs every bit of it. I get ya, but I don't think you're giving Wilson enough credit. He's money. Sans the SB pick, I always felt he'd make a BIG TIME play when it was needed most..with his arm or his legs..he's a smart QB...he's freaking young.. He never had stud WRs..he played a really really good game in back to back SBs...it goes on and on. I'm interested to see how Seattle plays this..Seattle has a bit of a cocky vibe..they might say "we can without ya"-I wouldn't be shocked anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Russel Wilson is too short and can't play in the league maybe he can convert to halfback what do you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebabyny Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Umm. No. That's not how it works. The question you should ask is how many best defenses in NFL history do you see on that list, coupled with a dominant rushing attack? The answer is one. Seattle. If you think Seattle would have made it to the superbowl without that defense, without that dominant rushing attack then you're just insane. That's where the discussion ends. Brady doesn't need that, Peyton doesn't need that, Luck doesn't need that, A-Rod doesn't need that. Wilson needs every bit of it. We have had some pretty great defenses and never sniffed a super bowl. Quite a few of thoseQBs I listed had weak running games, Pats and Colts come immediately to mind, and relatively weak defenses. But yeah, I'll play your game, and ask the question, how many of those QBs listed in the last 12 years DID have "best defenses in NFL history" and dominant rushing attacks? Other than Seattle of course? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Wilson played an awful game against GB in the playoffs. If Lynch does not run it in from 20 yards out without GB bothering to touch him (I still cannot fathom that play--maybe the GB defense heard a phantom whistle), and if Wilson does not get a 2 point conversion on the worst pass I have ever seen, and the worst effort by a DB, that game does not go to OT and he does not even get a chance to blow the SB win. Now I think he is pretty good. But I would choke if I mentioned him in the same breath as Brady, Manning and Rogers. And I would not give him 20 mil now. Would I take him? Gladly. He is head and shoulders above our guys. But salary caps matter. And good organizations do not pay for hype. yeah yopu know its impossible for a QB to have a bad game where the team bails him out. That's why they call it Team Not QB. Ask manning how many horrible games he's had in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Stop paying guys like David Harris and Antonio Cromartie $7 million/year and $8 million/year, respectively. Agreed. Let's just stop paying them. Piece of cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 yeah yopu know its impossible for a QB to have a bad game where the team bails him out. That's why they call it Team Not QB. Ask manning how many horrible games he's had in the playoffs. you cannot be comparing Wilson to Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Probably. Depends on the cap situation I guess. But we're in a different situation than Seattle. Which doesn't change the fact that he's worth it. Eli is at 120 or so too. You can't name guys he's better than who got more than 100 mil extensions and just say they're not worth it as proof. They were given it by their team, so they're worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 We have had some pretty great defenses and never sniffed a super bowl. Quite a few of thoseQBs I listed had weak running games, Pats and Colts come immediately to mind, and relatively weak defenses. But that's exactly my point. Brady doesn't need an elite running game or an elite defense. Peyton doesn't need that. Luck doesn't need that. A-Rod doesn't need that. Wilson does. Whether Wilson plays or sits out the year, the Seahawks are still a lock to make the playoffs. Can you say the same about the Patriots? Colts? Packers? Of course not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Straw Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Agreed. Let's just stop paying them. Piece of cake. There are plenty of ways to make the salary work. Not paying Wilkerson is a piece of cake. Plenty of teams are lining up for him and he's making something like $7 million this year. D'Brickshaw is getting $14 million next year. Quinton Coples is due $7.5 million. James Carpenter is due $5.5 million. We can pretend we don't have the means to fit a $20 million QB on the roster, but that's just not true. There are plenty of players making a ton of money that are expendable when compared to the value of what a real QB brings to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I'd pay a premium for Wilson if we can get him via FA. That offense outside of lynch and now graham hasn't had a ton of talent yet is consistently efficient. They will have a tougher time replacing Wilson than they would have lynch. That said if he hit the market I see philly outbidding everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebabyny Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 But that's exactly my point. Brady doesn't need an elite running game or an elite defense. Peyton doesn't need that. Luck doesn't need that. A-Rod doesn't need that. Wilson does. Whether Wilson plays or sits out the year, the Seahawks are still a lock to make the playoffs. Can you say the same about the Patriots? Colts? Packers? Of course not. The fact is, every team in the last 12 years to win has had a great to elite qb under center. Your assumption that a team that won a superbowl had nothing to do with the qb and that the same team would have had the same luck based soley on its defense and running game is purely conjecture and no basis in recent history as evidenced by the makeup of the teams that have won for the last 12 years. You can keep running on your hampster wheel trying to make a point based soley on conjecture that flies in the face of the history of at least the last 12 years. Everyone has pretty much come to agree that the league has changed the rules to limit defenses and thereby increase scoring and throwing offenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 D'Brickshaw is getting $14 million next year. Quinton Coples is due $7.5 million. James Carpenter is due $5.5 million. I'm saying. I agree with you. Let's just not pay those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 you cannot be comparing Wilson to Manning. Why can't I ?? Wilson has been in the league for 3 years with a 98 passer rating and already has a SB and should if not for an idiot play call have 2 SB victories to his credit. Obviously Manning has the time in the league but he's played in offenses that exclusively throw the football. At this point in time If I had the choice between Manning Or Brady Or Wilson ... I would pick Wilson to be the next Jets QB without even flinching due to many factors the biggest being age. He happens to fit our teams philosophy Ball control move the chains shut teams down in the 4th Quarter by running it down their throats. Have a look at Peyton Manning's Playoff record when it comes to clutch playoff QB's does Manning even make the top 10 ? Not talking pumped up regular season stats I'm talk clutch playoff performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Ferguson, Marshall, Mangold, Cromartie would save about $8M each. Cut who you want. Gilchrist and Giacomini are another $3.5 each. It's not hard to find money for the right people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.