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SEAHAWKS WON'T GIVE RUSSELL WILSON $20 MILLION A YEAR -


jeaniec

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LOL..funny sh*t

He's right though...Russell Wilson doesn't eye-ball- test his way to being a $20 million QB, but how does he NOT get that money when the position kinda demands it?

I'll stick with "he signs for not-quite-$20M"

When some of these other guys signed the cap was only around 120M so they were eating up about 1/6 of the cap each year. When Wilson hits FA the cap will be about 160 on the way to 200M. 30M will be the barometer for elite qb's and 20 will look cheap.

Wilson for 20M is a bargain.

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The Jets haven't had a legit QB, in his prime, since forever. It has literally bee n the Achilles heel of the franchise for generations.

There are posts in this thread that say "wouldn't want to 'overpay' him" in the era of ever-increasing salary cap and no winning without a legit QB.

Really.

Jets fans that can't see past the nose on their ******* face.

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The fact is, every team in the last 12 years to win has had a great to elite qb under center.

 

How is that a fact? Are you insane? Is that Butler corner for the Patriots now the best corner in NFL history because he performed well in the Superbowl? It's what you want people to believe. Flacco is not elite, he's not even "great". Neither is Eli or Wilson. Kaepernick would have been on that list if their defense hadn't tanked vs the Ravens in that game. I guess that would have messed up your entire argument if the 49ers had won that game. They didn't lose because of Kaepernick. So how does anything you say make sense? Would he have been an elite or great QB in your opinion had they won? He still almost pulled it off even though his defense didn't have his back. So why don't you put him in the same category? And stop throwing "good", "great", "elite" or "special" together to help your argument. Nobody said Wilson is a bad QB. Nobody said a team with a good defense and bad QB play can make the playoffs or is a superbowl team.

 

We're talking about truly special passers like Luck, Brady, Peyton, A-Rod that can get the job done without having the best defense in history, without having a dominant rushing attack. Wilson is not one of them. From the day he arrived in Seattle he had the best defense in the NFL and arguably the best defense in history to bail him out, to take the pressure off of him. On top of great blocking and a dominant rushing attack. How many times do you think the Seahawks had to turn games around? How many times did the defense, that running game, the blocking not work and Wilson had to put the team on his back and do it by himself? And actually overcame the odds? Tell me. Because Peyton does it all the time, that's how he made his name. So did Brady. So does Luck, every damn week. A-Rod did. Wilson? You're crazy if you think he had to do that on a regular basis. He's a game manager in the mold of Chad Pennington, who never had the luxury of having the best defense in history and a dominant rushing attack to help him out. Prime Chad Pennington would have had similar success with that Seattle team. Wilson is good, a great game manager. That's why I would pay him probably the 20 mil. per year if I'm Woody and if the cap allows it. Because we have everything in place, all we need is consistent QB play, somebody who protects the ball. That's where Wilson I think is a top 5 QB. Is he a top 5 QB in Indy? Green Bay? New England? You're crazy if you think that he could do the same job Luck does for the Colts with that piece of sh*t O-Line, no running game and a terrible defense. That's all I'm saying.

 

Truly elite QB's can get any team to the playoffs, whatever happens after that is another story. You can't build a superbowl team, you can only get somebody playoff ready, whatever happens after that has nothing to do with whether you have a great defense, or a great QB, there's no recipe to winning a superbowl. But odds are if you have a QB as good as Brady, and as well balanced as the Pats are (and you cheat just enough), that team is probably heading to the superbowl. Odds are if you have the best defense in history, a dominant rushing attack along with great blocking, coaching, that you make it to the superbowl. It's hard for a QB to play bad enough for that kind of team to not make it. You know, a Matt Flynn under center, a Tarvaris Jackson who shouldn't have been a QB in the first place. Tim Tebow made that guy look like he doesn't know how to throw the ball. And the Seahawks still almost made the playoffs that year. The year after that they get decent QB play from Wilson and they finish 1st in their divison, even though halfway through they were going to bench Wilson for how bad he was. But considering their option (Matt Flynn, a guy he barely beat out for the job) they stuck with Wilson which was a smart move. Wilson got better, he's now a great game manager. Is he special? No. And there is nothing that not only not proves that he's special, there's nothing that would even suggest he is. Because he's been helped with his entire career by having the best defense in history, a dominant rushing attack, good weapons around him, great blocking & coaching. How do you say he's elite when he's had all that to bail him out each week for 3 straight years, since the first day he's been there? Hasselbeck by the way got them to the Superbowl few years before Wilson got there. It's not like that team didn't win a game in 20 years and once Wilson got there they became a winner.

 

Another thing. Why do you go back 12 years? Did the NFL hit the reset button at that point and suddenly defense didn't matter? That's when "todays game" started? According to you? To help your own argument? Why don't you go back 13 years, a year earlier, when it was Brad Johnson vs Rich Gannon in the Superbowl? And a year before that it was Brady again. And a year before it was Dilfer. Before that it was McNair vs Warner. And then it was Elway. Nothing makes sense what you say. There is no "todays game". At least not if you think 10-15 years ago that football was a different game. It's absurd. Before Brady & Peyton started to dominate there were Elway, Montana, Jim Kelly, maybe even an Aikman. So how many times did the game "change" back and forth? And before THOSE guys there were amazing arm talents such as Plunkett, Ferragamo making it to the big game, winning the big game. I guess the game changes whenever you want it to change to help your own case that during certain times you had to have an elite QB to make it to the superbowl. So, where is your logic in all of that? The game didn't change. At least not the way you try to paint it. Like the best defense in history and a dominant rushing attack coupled with decent QB play isn't enough to make the playoffs or get you to the superbowl. Just because the Seahawks are the only team to have that doesn't mean it doesn't work. Yes, it's not easy to put the best defense in history together, coupled with a dominant rushing attack and decent QB play. It's been done twice in the last 10-15 years which is more than you'd think. The Ravens and the Seahawks. And both teams absolutely dominated the rest of the league during that time when they boasted that defense/running game. So stop with this "the game changed, rules changed" crap, it makes no sense. Despite all the rule changes the Seahawks still have the best defense in history, you should give them even more credit than the 2000 Ravens defense considering those rule changes. If you think with ALL THAT, the best defense in history, a dominant rushing attack, great blocking and coaching, if you think with ALL THAT, you still need a special passer to make the playoffs (and I'll say this for the third time) then you're insane.

 

It's fairly easy to figure out how good or special Wilson is or isn't. Do you think he could get the Colts to the playoffs? I doubt it. Could Chad Pennington get the Seahawks to the playoffs? Of course. Could Mark Sanchez? I think so. Could Pennington or Sanchez get the Colts to the playoffs? Of course not. So that's really where this discussion should end. Wilson is a great game manager, but that's about it. He's not a special QB. He's not somebody you can plug in any offense and then make that team a contender. Luck is that. Peyton is that. Brady is that, A-Rod is that. Wilson just isn't. And there's nothing that would suggest that he is. Considering that from the day he got there he had the luxury of being helped and bailed out by the best defense in history, along with a dominant rushing attack and great blocking. He needs to prove first that he can get the job done with a mediocre team, a bad defense, no running game, bad blocking, before people consider him a special QB. He hasn't done so. In fact you could argue that he struggled to get the job done WITH ALL THAT. Just look at how he choked vs the Pats this year, gifting them another ring. That's the type of bad QB play they've had before Wilson got there from Tarvaris Jackson, that's what kept them from making the playoffs. A great game manager like Wilson however helped them make it to the superbowl, and that's really all it takes. It doesn't take a special QB to get this Seahawks team to the playoffs. So once he proves that he can get a team like the Jaguars to the superbowl there's nothing that would suggest he is an elite QB. That's my definition of an elite passer, an elite thrower, an elite talent. Somebody you can plug in any offense you want and he makes that team a contender. Wilson isn't that guy. He just isn't.

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How is that a fact? Are you insane? Is that Butler corner for the Patriots now the best corner in NFL history because he performed well in the Superbowl? It's what you want people to believe. Flacco is not elite, he's not even "great". Neither is Eli or Wilson. Kaepernick would have been on that list if their defense hadn't tanked vs the Ravens in that game. I guess that would have messed up your entire argument if the 49ers had won that game. They didn't lose because of Kaepernick. So how does anything you say make sense? Would he have been an elite or great QB in your opinion had they won? He still almost pulled it off even though his defense didn't have his back. So why don't you put him in the same category? And stop throwing "good", "great", "elite" or "special" together to help your argument. Nobody said Wilson is a bad QB. Nobody said a team with a good defense and bad QB play can make the playoffs or is a superbowl team.

 

We're talking about truly special passers like Luck, Brady, Peyton, A-Rod that can get the job done without having the best defense in history, without having a dominant rushing attack. Wilson is not one of them. From the day he arrived in Seattle he had the best defense in the NFL and arguably the best defense in history to bail him out, to take the pressure off of him. On top of great blocking and a dominant rushing attack. How many times do you think the Seahawks had to turn games around? How many times did the defense, that running game, the blocking not work and Wilson had to put the team on his back and do it by himself? And actually overcame the odds? Tell me. Because Peyton does it all the time, that's how he made his name. So did Brady. So does Luck, every damn week. A-Rod did. Wilson? You're crazy if you think he had to do that on a regular basis. He's a game manager in the mold of Chad Pennington, who never had the luxury of having the best defense in history and a dominant rushing attack to help him out. Prime Chad Pennington would have had similar success with that Seattle team. Wilson is good, a great game manager. That's why I would pay him probably the 20 mil. per year if I'm Woody and if the cap allows it. Because we have everything in place, all we need is consistent QB play, somebody who protects the ball. That's where Wilson I think is a top 5 QB. Is he a top 5 QB in Indy? Green Bay? New England? You're crazy if you think that he could do the same job Luck does for the Colts with that piece of sh*t O-Line, no running game and a terrible defense. That's all I'm saying.

 

Truly elite QB's can get any team to the playoffs, whatever happens after that is another story. You can't build a superbowl team, you can only get somebody playoff ready, whatever happens after that has nothing to do with whether you have a great defense, or a great QB, there's no recipe to winning a superbowl. But odds are if you have a QB as good as Brady, and as well balanced as the Pats are (and you cheat just enough), that team is probably heading to the superbowl. Odds are if you have the best defense in history, a dominant rushing attack along with great blocking, coaching, that you make it to the superbowl. It's hard for a QB to play bad enough for that kind of team to not make it. You know, a Matt Flynn under center, a Tarvaris Jackson who shouldn't have been a QB in the first place. Tim Tebow made that guy look like he doesn't know how to throw the ball. And the Seahawks still almost made the playoffs that year. The year after that they get decent QB play from Wilson and they finish 1st in their divison, even though halfway through they were going to bench Wilson for how bad he was. But considering their option (Matt Flynn, a guy he barely beat out for the job) they stuck with Wilson which was a smart move. Wilson got better, he's now a great game manager. Is he special? No. And there is nothing that not only not proves that he's special, there's nothing that would even suggest he is. Because he's been helped with his entire career by having the best defense in history, a dominant rushing attack, good weapons around him, great blocking & coaching. How do you say he's elite when he's had all that to bail him out each week for 3 straight years, since the first day he's been there? Hasselbeck by the way got them to the Superbowl few years before Wilson got there. It's not like that team didn't win a game in 20 years and once Wilson got there they became a winner.

 

Another thing. Why do you go back 12 years? Did the NFL hit the reset button at that point and suddenly defense didn't matter? That's when "todays game" started? According to you? To help your own argument? Why don't you go back 13 years, a year earlier, when it was Brad Johnson vs Rich Gannon in the Superbowl? And a year before that it was Brady again. And a year before it was Dilfer. Before that it was McNair vs Warner. And then it was Elway. Nothing makes sense what you say. There is no "todays game". At least not if you think 10-15 years ago that football was a different game. It's absurd. Before Brady & Peyton started to dominate there were Elway, Montana, Jim Kelly, maybe even an Aikman. So how many times did the game "change" back and forth? And before THOSE guys there were amazing arm talents such as Plunkett, Ferragamo making it to the big game, winning the big game. I guess the game changes whenever you want it to change to help your own case that during certain times you had to have an elite QB to make it to the superbowl. So, where is your logic in all of that? The game didn't change. At least not the way you try to paint it. Like the best defense in history and a dominant rushing attack coupled with decent QB play isn't enough to make the playoffs or get you to the superbowl. Just because the Seahawks are the only team to have that doesn't mean it doesn't work. Yes, it's not easy to put the best defense in history together, coupled with a dominant rushing attack and decent QB play. It's been done twice in the last 10-15 years which is more than you'd think. The Ravens and the Seahawks. And both teams absolutely dominated the rest of the league during that time when they boasted that defense/running game. So stop with this "the game changed, rules changed" crap, it makes no sense. Despite all the rule changes the Seahawks still have the best defense in history, you should give them even more credit than the 2000 Ravens defense considering those rule changes. If you think with ALL THAT, the best defense in history, a dominant rushing attack, great blocking and coaching, if you think with ALL THAT, you still need a special passer to make the playoffs (and I'll say this for the third time) then you're insane.

 

It's fairly easy to figure out how good or special Wilson is or isn't. Do you think he could get the Colts to the playoffs? I doubt it. Could Chad Pennington get the Seahawks to the playoffs? Of course. Could Mark Sanchez? I think so. Could Pennington or Sanchez get the Colts to the playoffs? Of course not. So that's really where this discussion should end. Wilson is a great game manager, but that's about it. He's not a special QB. He's not somebody you can plug in any offense and then make that team a contender. Luck is that. Peyton is that. Brady is that, A-Rod is that. Wilson just isn't. And there's nothing that would suggest that he is. Considering that from the day he got there he had the luxury of being helped and bailed out by the best defense in history, along with a dominant rushing attack and great blocking. He needs to prove first that he can get the job done with a mediocre team, a bad defense, no running game, bad blocking, before people consider him a special QB. He hasn't done so. In fact you could argue that he struggled to get the job done WITH ALL THAT. Just look at how he choked vs the Pats this year, gifting them another ring. That's the type of bad QB play they've had before Wilson got there from Tarvaris Jackson, that's what kept them from making the playoffs. A great game manager like Wilson however helped them make it to the superbowl, and that's really all it takes. It doesn't take a special QB to get this Seahawks team to the playoffs. So once he proves that he can get a team like the Jaguars to the superbowl there's nothing that would suggest he is an elite QB. That's my definition of an elite passer, an elite thrower, an elite talent. Somebody you can plug in any offense you want and he makes that team a contender. Wilson isn't that guy. He just isn't.

 

You have taken your assumption about what Wilson is or isn't and twisted and turned your version of reality to bend to fit that.....and I am not interested in going around and around with you on this merry-go-round, so I'll just take my insane, nonsensical self and i'm going to just hop off here.

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Brady was basically along for the ride for the majority of his first SB. He was a game manager moreso than a playmaker when the Pats won multiple Super Bowls--especially his first year. The pats had the defense and got the calls and had really clutch kicker. Now--he is one of the best ever--because of their consistent winning for over a decade. But tom brady after 3 years has not as good as wilson after 3 years. Jmo

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IMO (always good to start with this) Russell Wilson is a very good, but not elite QB.  On the plus side, he is very consistent, and not mistake-prone.  I just don't think he's got as high a ceiling as some of the elite QBs over the past decade (Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers).  I think he's probably as good a fit for the Jets as Flacco and Kaepernick because of that consistency but I'd probably take guys like Ryan or Rivers over him for the next 2-3 years.

 

So is he worth $20MM?  Normally, I'd say no, but with the ever-expanding salary cap, $20MM doesn't mean what it did even 3 years ago.  And I think the Jets with Wilson are in the mix for the trophy whereas with their current stable of <average QBs, not so much.  So yeah, as much as I think it's overpaying (he's really probably a $15MM value), I'd pull the trigger based on our exact current situation.  But I can see why teams in different situations would not pay him top QB money.

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The Ravens have done that when they moved on from Dilfer. They plugged in the next piece of crap QB and they still made the playoffs and almost got to the superbowl. What makes you think this is any different?

 

we almost went to the Superbowl with Mark Sanchez(Twice).  Not a great indicator of future success., 

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You have taken your assumption about what Wilson is or isn't and twisted and turned your version of reality to bend to fit that.....and I am not interested in going around and around with you on this merry-go-round, so I'll just take my insane, nonsensical self and i'm going to just hop off here.

 

If you really read all that you care more than most.  

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we almost went to the Superbowl with Mark Sanchez(Twice).  Not a great indicator of future success., 

 

How is that different from what Wilson is doing with the Seahawks now? That was exactly my point. When he's got a dominant defense, a good running game and good blocking he can get the job done. Once that goes away and you put the team on his back he flat out stinks. I'm not going that far with Wilson but he's not that far off. Definitely not in the same category as a Peyton, Luck, A-Rod or even Brady.

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I'm saying Wilson is not in the same category as Peyton.

 

Well I agree with that.  Problem is less than the 25% of the QB's are even close to that truly elite category.  Rest of the teams have to settle for something much less than that.  I just saw the Capernick is available.  He in my opinion would be a very bad choice.  I think we have seen the best of him and he has gotten worse in the last three years.  My only point on Wilson is I have seen him do nothing but win.  Maybe it's due solely to his team but Im not ready to accept that.  Mostly because I haven't really seen that since the 2000 Ravens.  I honestly don't think that happens in the league right now.  Due to the QB friendly rule changes.  I just think Wilson makes really good decisions with the ball, reads the defense very well and has mobility that enhances all that.  No, he is no Peyton Manning but Eli has twice as many titles as Peyton.  So there really are no absolutes when it comes to winning a title. Wilson does have the one black eye on him for tossing that pick to the Pats to give those cheaters another ill gotten Superbowl. Is that enough for me to not want him on my team?  Uh.. hmmm.  actually I think maybe it might be.  Can I answer that later?  LOL  

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In other news, the Seahawks will give Wilson $20M a year. Of course they will, because they have to, just like the Ravens had to pay Flacco. He's young and he's won one already. Just like Brady and Ben and Eli were when people saying it's the system/running game/defense etc. about those guys. Then they all won again. The free agent market for Wilson would be ridiculous. He'd get $20M from half a dozen teams at least.

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Well I agree with that.  Problem is less than the 25% of the QB's are even close to that truly elite category.  Rest of the teams have to settle for something much less than that.  I just saw the Capernick is available.  He in my opinion would be a very bad choice.  I think we have seen the best of him and he has gotten worse in the last three years.  My only point on Wilson is I have seen him do nothing but win.  Maybe it's due solely to his team but Im not ready to accept that.  Mostly because I haven't really seen that since the 2000 Ravens.  I honestly don't think that happens in the league right now.  Due to the QB friendly rule changes.  I just think Wilson makes really good decisions with the ball, reads the defense very well and has mobility that enhances all that.  No, he is no Peyton Manning but Eli has twice as many titles as Peyton.  So there really are no absolutes when it comes to winning a title. Wilson does have the one black eye on him for tossing that pick to the Pats to give those cheaters another ill gotten Superbowl. Is that enough for me to not want him on my team?  Uh.. hmmm.  actually I think maybe it might be.  Can I answer that later?  LOL  

 

He makes good decisions because he's not being asked to do much, he doesn't have to take any risks. He doesn't put the team on his back. Unlike Brady, Peyton, Luck, A-Rod. I would probably pay him the 20 mil. per year if I'm Woody, but if I'm Seattle I'm moving on from him. I don't need him. They're in a different situation. I mean I'd probably squeeze 2-3 more years out of him, get a 3rd round pick for compensation, let him walk in free agency and then move on with the next guy. The Seahawks are a lock for the playoffs with or without Wilson so why spend all your cash on a QB who is not elite when you have so many other guys to pay? Sherman, Irvin, Okung, they just lost their Center, their Guard, Chancellor must be paid, Wagner is looking for a new deal. You can't pay them all. Either you focus on re-signing all those guys or you go with Wilson which would be a big mistake IMO. They can find a Sanchez type QB in free agency each year, get him dirt cheap and he'll get them to the playoffs.

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Seattle may be able to do some fuzzy math by using his 2015 third rounder salary + 2 years of franchise tags to get him in there just below it and still make it worth Wilson's while with guarantees ... But it will be close.

I'd say all of this garbage is simply a negotion tactic by them to try and make it closer to 5 years at 18&1/2 per than 5 years at 20 per ... My guess is the #'s will eventually come out to the 20 per year ... But not as much total guarantee that the other members of the 20 mil a year club make

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This thread is just stupid really because there is no f*cking way that Russell Wilson will not be Seattle Seahawk!

Give me a list of QBs that have played in 2 Superbowls that have changed teams in their 20s,lol.

How about none & it's never going to happen in regard to Wilson.

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This thread is just stupid really because there is no f*cking way that Russell Wilson will not be Seattle Seahawk!

Give me a list of QBs that have played in 2 Superbowls that have changed teams in their 20s,lol.

How about none & it's never going to happen in regard to Wilson.

That's a simple question and shows you're still wet behind the ears: Drew Bledsoe.

Everyone has a price and ANYONE is expendable in life.

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That's a simple question and shows you're still wet behind the ears: Drew Bledsoe.

Everyone has a price and ANYONE is expendable in life.

The general point I believe he was trying to make is valid though ... Basically the price tag that it should take for Seattle to do the deal likely would be greater than RG3 numbers ... Plus a top talent player ... If I'm Seattle I still wouldn't do it, jmo

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