Jump to content

Geno getting a raw deal by many


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 213
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Getting a raw deal? He lucked into starting Year 1 because Rex put Sanchez into the 4th Q of the Snoopy Bowl, then he was handed the job Year 2 after a ridiculous sham competition, and now he is the p

if his performance in TC & Preseason is at least in the same ballpark as Fitz & our QB roster remains the same i'm onboard with him starting week 1   if he has all of the 2015 WR/TE weapons

Geno is what he is, million-dollar arm and a two-cent brain. He will never be a starting QB in this league until he possess the mental capability to play the position, of which he has flashed nothing

I've never made the argument that he's a franchise QB or anything close. He's a serviceable stop-gap and a much better alternative to the Mark Sanchez/Geno Smith types until we find a true franchise QB in 2016. What's so hard to understand about this?

What good does a terrible stop gap do for the team?

And the fact you think he's much better than anyone is hard to understand. He's garbage.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What good does a terrible stop gap do for the team?

And the fact you think he's much better than anyone is hard to understand. He's garbage.

 

The fact that you think he is terrible is equally hard to understand.  We've had some truly sh*tty QB play here.  Laughable stuff really.  Fitz at least is respectable by every available metric other than the overly simple one you keep throwing at us:  Wins and losses.  When it comes to the eye test, there's a significant difference between him and a Sanchez or Geno.  It's plain as day.  He can command a huddle and an offense.  It's not his fault he's typically been paired with sh*tty defenses, unlike Geno and Sanchez.

 

What a stopgap does for us is allows us to evaluate our offense properly.  With a sh*t QB, everything around him always ends up looking terrible.  Not to mention, maybe, just maybe, he can game manage us to a playoff spot.  Unless that's something you're not cool with, in which case by all means, let's start Geno for 16 games.

 

I've said many, many times we need to prove we can win 8-10 games before we can win a title.  Fitz gives us the best chance to do that.  Then in 2016, maybe we can attract a Brees or Rivers here if we don't like the QB's in the draft class. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact that you think he is terrible is equally hard to understand.  We've had some truly sh*tty QB play here.  Laughable stuff really.  Fitz at least is respectable by every available metric other than the overly simple one you keep throwing at us:  Wins and losses.  When it comes to the eye test, there's a significant difference between him and a Sanchez or Geno.  It's plain as day.  He can command a huddle and an offense.  It's not his fault he's typically been paired with sh*tty defenses, unlike Geno and Sanchez.

 

What a stopgap does for us is allows us to evaluate our offense properly.  With a sh*t QB, everything around him always ends up looking terrible.  Not to mention, maybe, just maybe, he can game manage us to a playoff spot.  Unless that's something you're not cool with, in which case by all means, let's start Geno for 16 games.

 

I've said many, many times we need to prove we can win 8-10 games before we can win a title.  Fitz gives us the best chance to do that.  Then in 2016, maybe we can attract a Brees or Rivers here if we don't like the QB's in the draft class. 

 

Me thinks you've been hit over the head with such terrible QB play that you've got some serious beer goggles on when it comes to Fitz.  He's really bad and passes nobody's eye test.  He was traded for a 7th rounder, meaning, nobody wanted him.  That's besides the fact he was traded from a franchise starving for a QB.  Why doesnt that register with you?  This metric savvy Vet wasnt even wanted by his own team who's going to roll with Ryan Mallet or some guy named Savage or maybe Case Keenum...sooo many great options.  

 

How does a stopgap allow you evaluate your roster?  That's lost on me.  If he's not going to be here long term, what eval are you making.  You need to evaluate Brandon Marshall, Eric Decker and Jermely Kerley, proven players?  Or maybe its the OL filled with Veterans that you're evaluating?  Please.  Fitz does nothing from that perspective. 

 

I have no clue how proving that you can win 8 games means you can win a Championship or means you're attracting Vets who arent coming here....but even if both of these ridiculous ideas were true; what makes you think Fitz can do it when he never has?  Just because he's a Jet now?  Geno won 8 games with one of the worst NFL rosters ever assembled led by the worst HC to ever grace the NFL.  And if Fitz does magically do something he's never done before it completely takes you out of draft a QB contention.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

How does a stopgap allow you evaluate your roster?  That's lost on me.  If he's not going to be here long term, what eval are you making.  You need to evaluate Brandon Marshall, Eric Decker and Jermely Kerley, proven players?  Or maybe its the OL filled with Veterans that you're evaluating?  Please.  Fitz does nothing from that perspective. 

 

Oh, so Devin Smith will benefit from Geno's overthrows?  How about young linemen like Aboushi and Harrison?  Will they be easy to evaluate with Geno holding the ball for 4 seconds, forcing them into holding penalties?

Link to post
Share on other sites

If he's terrible, he'll be benched. And there won't be any Geno lovers complaining about it. We'll all ride it out with Fitzpatrick, and become Petty lovers, instead.

If he is terrible before week 1 & is benched somehow I think there will be Geno lovers complaining about it.

Let's hope it never comes to that

Link to post
Share on other sites

Geno lovers.

There are no Geno lovers. There are people who understand that the new regime's plan is to put Geno Smith in the best position to succeed, and then go from there. That's about it. They see the best case scenario as being Geno Smith getting it. Pretty simple. And that is the best case scenario. Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't taking this team to the promised land this year or any year in the future (not that I have Geno pencilled in for Super Bowl MVP any time soon, either, but he wins the battle of upside against Fitzpatrick). Unable to upgrade the QB position in their first offseason, their intention is to go with the QB on their roster who has the most upside.

If he's terrible, he'll be benched. And there won't be any Geno lovers complaining about it. We'll all ride it out with Fitzpatrick, and become Petty lovers, instead.

Geno lover = person who doesn't think the raiders 4th string qb could beat out Geno in TC

Link to post
Share on other sites

Geno won 8 games with one of the worst NFL rosters ever assembled

 

No he didn't.  The 2013 Jets defense was ranked 12th in the NFL that year.  And we had games where we lost 13-10 (NE), 19-6 (PIT), 19-3 (BAL), and 23-3 (MIA).  Geno was a top 3 reason we lost all of those games.  He'd look ok against the worst defenses in the league (ATL, BUF) then put up one of the worst QB performances you'd ever see the following week. 

 

He then won 4 games the next year, nullifying this argument that Geno somehow isn't a loser.  His 2014 campaign is a far more accurate reflection of his actual value to a team than his rookie year. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

No he didn't. The 2013 Jets defense was ranked 12th in the NFL that year. And he won 4 games the next year, nullifying this argument that Geno somehow isn't a loser.

Yeah your right that team was stacked with the immortal Clyde gates and David Nelson at WR and a 12th ranked D.

Jake Locker woulda gone 15-1 with that roster

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah your right that team was stacked with the immortal Clyde gates and David Nelson at WR and a 12th ranked D.

Jake Locker woulda gone 15-1 with that roster

 

Fitzpatrick gets paired with terrible teams...."He's a career loser!"

 

Geno goes 12-20 with terrible teams.... "He didn't have enough weaponz, needs more time, and wait till year 3!"

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fitzpatrick gets paired with terrible teams...."He's a career loser!"

Geno goes 12-20 with terrible teams.... "He didn't have enough weaponz, needs more time, and wait till year 3!"

What terrible team did Fitz get paired with? He had Andre Johndon, JJ Watt and Arian Foster last year.

I want Fitz to be the starter but if the CS wants to give him a shot fine. You guys act like Fitz has multiple pro bowls in his resume.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What terrible team did Fitz get paired with? He had Andre Johndon, JJ Watt and Arian Foster last year.

I want Fitz to be the starter but if the CS wants to give him a shot fine. You guys act like Fitz has multiple pro bowls in his resume.

 

Last year was by far the best team he's ever played with.  He was 6-5 in games he played in, 6-4 if you don't count the game where he got hurt midway through.  His replacement(s) went 3-2.  He's not a loser.  Chan Gailey and Maccagnan agree with me, and presumably so does Bowles.

 

I never said he's a pro bowl caliber QB.  Just that he's better than Geno.  Which isn't hard.  Geno is the worst starting QB in the NFL outside of maybe Buffalo.  Yet I'm told I'm supposed to be impressed with the Jets going 8-8 his rookie year and to be patient, when we've seen this exact story play out with Sanchez.  9-7 his rookie year, 11-5 his 2nd season, still a sh*tty-ass QB.  Which is why wins and losses are maybe the most awful, overly simplistic way to evaluate a QB.

  • Upvote 1
  • Thumb Down 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, so Devin Smith will benefit from Geno's overthrows?  How about young linemen like Aboushi and Harrison?  Will they be easy to evaluate with Geno holding the ball for 4 seconds, forcing them into holding penalties?

 

Totally impossible to evaluate the players because of Geno, guys. 

 

No he didn't.  The 2013 Jets defense was ranked 12th in the NFL that year.  And we had games where we lost 13-10 (NE), 19-6 (PIT), 19-3 (BAL), and 23-3 (MIA).  Geno was a top 3 reason we lost all of those games.  He'd look ok against the worst defenses in the league (ATL, BUF) then put up one of the worst QB performances you'd ever see the following week. 

 

He then won 4 games the next year, nullifying this argument that Geno somehow isn't a loser.  His 2014 campaign is a far more accurate reflection of his actual value to a team than his rookie year. 

 

12th in the NFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Guys, 12th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Last year was by far the best team he's ever played with.  He was 6-5 in games he played in, 6-4 if you don't count the game where he got hurt midway through.  His replacement(s) went 3-2.  He's not a loser.  Chan Gailey and Maccagnan agree with me, and presumably so does Bowles.

 

I never said he's a pro bowl caliber QB.  Just that he's better than Geno.  Which isn't hard.  Geno is the worst starting QB in the NFL outside of maybe Buffalo.  Yet I'm told I'm supposed to be impressed with the Jets going 8-8 his rookie year and to be patient, when we've seen this exact story play out with Sanchez.  9-7 his rookie year, 11-5 his 2nd season, still a sh*tty-ass QB.  Which is why wins and losses are maybe the most awful, overly simplistic way to evaluate a QB.

 

 

What if everyone gave up Fitzpatrick after 2 years of Football and deprived us of our conquering hero? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

12th in the NFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guys, 12th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey now, if all that mattered was D we'd be in the playoffs that year. And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey now, if all that mattered was D we'd be in the playoffs that year. And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

 

Did you know that Ryan Fitzpatrick was the 13th rated QB based on some neat equation?

 

13th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

13 is my lucky #, fwiw,...so thats cool. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

What if everyone gave up Fitzpatrick after 2 years of Football and deprived us of our conquering hero? 

 

Neither QB are or were worth waiting on, which is why I only want Fitz to start for 1 year then get either cut or reduced to backup duties, and for Geno to either finish out his contract or get cut after the season.  Ideally, we roll into 2016 with a legitimate starter, Bryce Petty, and either Fitz or some other veteran backup.  Or, if Petty shows us something, he can be the backup, and we can just roster 2 QB's or a cheap 3rd stringer.

 

We're in full agreement we don't have a multi-year starter on the roster.  Our disagreement lies in which QB gives us the best chance to win next year.  And I'm on the right side of that argument.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Neither QB are worth waiting on, which is why I only want Fitz to start for 1 year then get reduced to backup duties. We're in full agreement we don't have a multi-year starter on the roster.  Our disagreement lies in which QB gives us the best chance to win next year.  And I'm on the right side of that argument.

 

Maybe.  Probably.  But what does winning 8 games with Fitz do for this team?  And what does that mean next year?  Break in a rookie that you draft in the mid 1st round because Fitz took you out of the top 5?  Or Petty?  Or Geno again?

 

It is 100% in the best interest of the Jets to see what Geno can do with an NFL caliber WR core and a HC who hired a OC known for his work with QB's.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe.  Probably.  But what does winning 8 games with Fitz do for this team?  And what does that mean next year?  Break in a rookie that you draft in the mid 1st round because Fitz took you out of the top 5?  Or Petty?  Or Geno again?

 

It is 100% in the best interest of the Jets to see what Geno can do with an NFL caliber WR core and a HC who hired a OC known for his work with QB's.

 

Let them see it in practice, not game situations.  I want to win games next year.  What does an 8-win season do for us?  Well, no Super Bowl team in the last 12 years won the title going anything worse than 8-8 the previous year.  11 of the 12 made the playoffs.  The consequences of having a later draft pick are negated by the positives of being a competitive football team. 

 

You've said it yourself that it's not worth it to lose your way into the top 5, so I'm not sure why you would opt for that side of the argument on this one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Eli Manning threw 48 TD's in his first 2 full seasons as a starter, 24 each season.  Plus 6 in his rookie season when he started the final 7 games.

 

Geno Smith has thrown 25 TD's TOTAL in his 2 seasons.

 

The upside for Eli was established pretty nicely even early in his career.  For every boneheaded mistake he also had several moments where he looked the part of a franchise QB and could put points on the board.  Basically he looked like he could become a poor man's Favre.  It's not the worst thing to establish yourself as a gunslinger IF you can make up for the turnovers with a bunch of scoring drives.  It's how Romo has carved out a solid career as well.  Neither will or ever have been known as elite QB's, but they're certainly franchise guys.

 

Geno has displayed nothing close to Eli Manning's ceiling his first 2 years in the league.  If he did, the turnovers would be far more acceptable.  His upside is putting up something like 24 points in a game, which is not terrific in this league.  His downside is looking completely lost and costing us games.

Go ask Giant fans what they felt about him the 1st two years. Many wanted him and Coughlin run out of town.  Plus if you want to compare the two look at their offensive weapons and Olines don't just cherry pick the TD stats.  You said Eli could make up for turnovers with a bunch of scoring drives, we all know where Rex went after turnovers run, run, run and kick - the mentality of the coaching staffs was quite diametrically opposed.. And before you mention the Buffalo game that was an anomaly just like Fitzy's 6 TD game.

 

Bottom line Geno's not going to be a Farve or Luck or Peyton not many are. But its too early to give up hope that he might blossom ala a Eli or Brees.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact that you think he is terrible is equally hard to understand.  We've had some truly sh*tty QB play here.  Laughable stuff really.  Fitz at least is respectable by every available metric other than the overly simple one you keep throwing at us:  Wins and losses.  When it comes to the eye test, there's a significant difference between him and a Sanchez or Geno.  It's plain as day.  He can command a huddle and an offense.  It's not his fault he's typically been paired with sh*tty defenses, unlike Geno and Sanchez.

 

What a stopgap does for us is allows us to evaluate our offense properly.  With a sh*t QB, everything around him always ends up looking terrible.  Not to mention, maybe, just maybe, he can game manage us to a playoff spot.  Unless that's something you're not cool with, in which case by all means, let's start Geno for 16 games.

 

I've said many, many times we need to prove we can win 8-10 games before we can win a title.  Fitz gives us the best chance to do that.  Then in 2016, maybe we can attract a Brees or Rivers here if we don't like the QB's in the draft class. 

And its not Sanchez and Geno's fault they've been paired with sh*tty offenses and a sh*tty HC in regards to offense.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe.  Probably.  But what does winning 8 games with Fitz do for this team?  And what does that mean next year?  Break in a rookie that you draft in the mid 1st round because Fitz took you out of the top 5?  Or Petty?  Or Geno again?

 

It is 100% in the best interest of the Jets to see what Geno can do with an NFL caliber WR core and a HC who hired a OC known for his work with QB's.

This is why you start him over Fitz.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Go ask Giant fans what they felt about him the 1st two years.

 

Giants' fans are spoiled babies.  They wanted Coughlin fired within 2 years after his first Super Bowl victory.  They've won a Super Bowl each of the last 4 decades and complain incessantly anyways.  Zero objectivity within that fan base.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Let them see it in practice, not game situations.  I want to win games next year.  What does an 8-win season do for us?  Well, no Super Bowl team in the last 12 years won the title going anything worse than 8-8 the previous year.  11 of the 12 made the playoffs.  The consequences of having a later draft pick are negated by the positives of being a competitive football team. 

 

You've said it yourself that it's not worth it to lose your way into the top 5, so I'm not sure why you would opt for that side of the argument on this one.

 

I'm not opting on that side of the argument.  I do think selling losing as a strategy to get better is stupid and nobody thinks that way besides ignorant fans.  However, if Geno is as bad as you're making him out to be, that is the positive default outcome that may come from starting him. I dont think that will be case as Geno has proven he can do something Fitz hasnt in that he can win more than 6 games but also because he improved last year.  You might not want to acknowledge it but he did.  The kid had 3 games with an 80% completion percentage, another feat he's accomplished that Fitz hasnt in a 10 year career. 

 

 

What if teams gave up on Rich Gannon after 10 years of mediocre production??  :winking0001:

 

Interestingly enough, Gannon won more than 6 games numerous occasions prior to his run with the Raiders.  Amazing what the right coach, with the right system can do for a player.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not opting on that side of the argument.  I do think selling losing as a strategy to get better is stupid and nobody thinks that way besides ignorant fans.  However, if Geno is as bad as you're making him out to be, that is the positive default outcome that may come from starting him. I dont think that will be case as Geno has proven he can do something Fitz hasnt in that he can win more than 6 games but also because he improved last year.  You might not want to acknowledge it but he did.  The kid had 3 games with an 80% completion percentage, another feat he's accomplished that Fitz hasnt in a 10 year career. 

 

Aight.  This is the most quality argument anyone has made to this point.  I still don't agree (especially the part about Geno IMPROVING last year) but I won't belabor the point.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Aight.  This is the most quality argument anyone has made to this point.  I still don't agree (especially the part about Geno IMPROVING last year) but I won't belabor the point.

He improved his comp%, TD%, and int%, while maintaining a relatively robust 6.9 ypa. All while playing for a worse team, forcing him into worse situations as a passer. But by all means, don't agree that he showed improvement.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

lol have to love the offseason. another how many months on this carousel? :cheers:

I give up Johnny-how anybody can look at the past 2 seasons of Jets football with that meathead at the helm and actually believe that he's a better alternative to even a pretty much nobody like Ryan Fitzpatrick is beyond the pale-I just don't get it-what have these people been doing, what were they watching while the Jets games were being played the past 2 years?

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Last year was by far the best team he's ever played with.  He was 6-5 in games he played in, 6-4 if you don't count the game where he got hurt midway through.  His replacement(s) went 3-2.  He's not a loser.  Chan Gailey and Maccagnan agree with me, and presumably so does Bowles.

 

I never said he's a pro bowl caliber QB.  Just that he's better than Geno.  Which isn't hard.  Geno is the worst starting QB in the NFL outside of maybe Buffalo.  Yet I'm told I'm supposed to be impressed with the Jets going 8-8 his rookie year and to be patient, when we've seen this exact story play out with Sanchez.  9-7 his rookie year, 11-5 his 2nd season, still a sh*tty-ass QB.  Which is why wins and losses are maybe the most awful, overly simplistic way to evaluate a QB.

 

Not a Geno fan myself but what are you implying when it comes to using wins as an evaluation tool?  OK for Fitz and simplistic everywhere else?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I give up Johnny-how anybody can look at the past 2 seasons of Jets football with that meathead at the helm and actually believe that he's a better alternative to even a pretty much nobody like Ryan Fitzpatrick is beyond the pale-I just don't get it-what have these people been doing, what were they watching while the Jets games were being played the past 2 years?

I believe Todd Bowles is a much better alternative. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wanted to add that while Geno is only 12-17 record wise, this past season we had the worst CBs ever and that caused the team to lose the majority of the games. Sure the O struggled much of the time, but on O you tend to press and make mistakes when your D gives up as much points as our CBs were allowing. Having a great Dline doesn't help that much when DBs are just that bad. Lets see how the 1st month of this season goes before we totally give up on Geno. To me we have Browns, Colts, Eagles, and Fins. Geno goes 2-2 or better and we go with him for a while. He goes 1-3 or less and he should be benched and probably that's the end of him. One thing I always think of is while the last 2 years CAM Newton has been very good. He was really bad for his 1st 3-4 seasons. IF he was on the Jets he would have been ousted before his 4th season, but playing on teams like the Panthers gives QBs the time they need to develop and at one point thats what many of these guys need to be good. Also, good coaching would help, which Jets haven't had on O since Jesus was a baby. Lets hope Gailey does as well as he has done with little like in the past.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting a raw deal? He lucked into starting Year 1 because Rex put Sanchez into the 4th Q of the Snoopy Bowl, then he was handed the job Year 2 after a ridiculous sham competition, and now he is the presumptive starter unless proven otherwise despite doing absolutely nothing encouraging in his career to date and putting up numbers that rank him among the worst ever for two year starters.

 

Far from a raw deal, Geno is the luckiest SOB on Earth.

We still blaming this on Rex even after it came out it was Idzik..?

 

http://nypost.com/2013/10/09/irate-sanchez-yelled-at-idzik-after-shoulder-injury/

Link to post
Share on other sites

Last year was by far the best team he's ever played with. He was 6-5 in games he played in, 6-4 if you don't count the game where he got hurt midway through. His replacement(s) went 3-2. He's not a loser. Chan Gailey and Maccagnan agree with me, and presumably so does Bowles.

I never said he's a pro bowl caliber QB. Just that he's better than Geno. Which isn't hard. Geno is the worst starting QB in the NFL outside of maybe Buffalo. Yet I'm told I'm supposed to be impressed with the Jets going 8-8 his rookie year and to be patient, when we've seen this exact story play out with Sanchez. 9-7 his rookie year, 11-5 his 2nd season, still a sh*tty-ass QB. Which is why wins and losses are maybe the most awful, overly simplistic way to evaluate a QB.

And I never said Fitz was a loser. I wanted Fitz to be 1 on the depth chart. The coaching staff at this moment trusts Geno with being at 1 on the DC. I'm fine with that -- Fitz's 6-5 glory days notwithstanding.

And Geno > any qb currently in Houston, Tennessee, Washington, philly and Cleveland

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another poor Geno Smith thread. I hate you John Idziot for burdening us with this bird brain.  And Mac giving him another year to 'prove' himself is uncharacteristic of the numerous moves he's made to immediately improve this team.  It really makes zero sense. Nobody's perfect.  This will be Smith's last year in NY, guaranteed.  Joe Namath himself said so and you know if Namath guarantees something, its gold.   I cant wait for Willie Colon screaming at Smith on the sidelines early in the season, 'You've wrecked us and its only the first quarter of game 1'.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...