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As I said there are plenty of reasons to not believe what someone is guessing Ozzies board looked like. And once again, because a player grades high for his physical abilities doesn't mean he will be picked anywhere near the round he grades into my f there are no Ed flags because of his mental makeup.

Geno Smith is Unitas compared to Russell. He's a better player and doesn't have any of the work ethic, laziness, weight problem, homie issues that Russell had.

Carson Palmer is a mediocre QB. And you keep bringing up Smith then saying you don't want to compare him to player X. Why?

Why don't you quit because don't you get tired of me embarrassing you. We know exactly how the Ravens board was , and that Russell was the highest prospect Ozzie Newsome ever graded. Simple Brian Billick who was present in the draft room ( Ravens head coach), and was privy to exactly what the Ravens board was- relieved this story. It is a fact. Here it goes. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/12/brian-billick-offers-a-cautionary-tale-on-jamarcus-russell/

The only thing you can make the case is Jamarcus Rusell and Geno Smith had the arm to play in the NFL, but didn't have it upstairs to ever be a legitimate NFL starting Qb.( Raiders realized that real fast, and lets see how long it takes the Jets to admit that).

Again history will show you have no clue what your talking about with Carson Palmer. No need even for me to discuss that.( not wasting my time)

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Clowney is the biggest pussy I've ever seen in the history of the NFL. All the talent in the world, no balls.   If it weren't for one big hit in that Michigan game a few years ago, he'd be selling i

Bette Midler now or 1974?

Not the same type player / position

Why don't you quit because don't you get tired of me embarrassing you. We know exactly how the Ravens board was , and that Russell was the highest prospect Ozzie Newsome ever graded. Simple Brian Billick who was present in the draft room ( Ravens head coach), and was privy to exactly what the Ravens board was- relieved this story. It is a fact.

The only thing you can make the case is Jamarcus Rusell and Geno Smith had the arm to play in the NFL, but didn't have it upstairs to ever be a legitimate NFL starting Qb.( Raiders realized that real fast, and lets see how long it takes the Jets to admit that).

Again history will show you have no clue what your talking about with Carson Palmer. No need even for me to discuss that.( not wasting my time)

You are one thick headed homer. Quit with any and all Raider players being the bestest ever at a position nonsense.

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You are one thick headed homer. Quit with any and all Raider players being the bestest ever at a position nonsense.

I take that to mean you accept you were wrong. ( pretty easy to prove when you have facts to support your position. Now get back on discussion of the topic, and not trying to pick a fight with me. I'm done with your nonsense.

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I take that to mean you accept you were wrong. ( pretty easy to prove when you have facts to support your position. Now get back on discussion of the topic, and not trying to pick a fight with me. I'm done with your nonsense.

LOL facts to prove we don't know what someone though of a player? As if you have anything close to a fact proving if Ozzie had the first pick in the draft he would have taken that POS Raider QB that you told me would be a top 3, elite QB. Now youre making it sound like you weren't wrong because you think Ozzie liked him too.

That would make two of you wrong. And since I said he sucked makes me right.

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LOL facts to prove we don't know what someone though of a player? As if you have anything close to a fact proving if Ozzie had the first pick in the draft he would have taken that POS Raider QB that you told me would be a top 3, elite QB. Now youre making it sound like you weren't wrong because you think Ozzie liked him too.

That would make two of you wrong. And since I said he sucked makes me right.

yes I do Brian Billick was the coach of the Ravens and he knows exactly how Ozzie Newsome board was. how he was the highest prospect Ozzie Newsome ever graded his nine years with the Ravens . F A C T. ( I gave you a link- where's your proof) Again teams don't formulate their draft boards for months, and than go away from that on draft day. Stop it already and move on- you were wrong.
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yes I do Brian Billick was the coach of the Ravens and he knows exactly how Ozzie Newsome board was. how he was the highest prospect Ozzie Newsome ever graded his nine years with the Ravens . F A C T. ( I gave you a link- where's your proof) Again teams don't formulate their draft boards for months, and than go away from that on draft day. Stop it already and move on- you were wrong.

 

And nobody's ever let it leak that they liked a prospect more than they really did. :hand:

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And nobody's ever let it leak that they liked a prospect more than they really did. :hand:

OMG you can't be serious. ( please tell me your joking). leaked ? the former head coach ( Brian Billick) who knew the Ravens draft board, and was present ( head coach) in the draft room told you exactly where they had him listed on their draft board.( Was the highest prospect Ozzie Newsome ever graded the nine years he was there- fact you can't dispute.

do you want me to translate this in another language because no one can be this dense.

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OMG you can't be serious. ( please tell me your joking). leaked ? the former head coach ( Brian Billick) who knew the Ravens draft board, and was present ( head coach) told you exactly where they had him listed on their draft board.( Was the highest prospect Ozzie Newsome ever graded the nine years he was there- fact you can't dispute.

do you want me to translate this in another language because no one can be this dense.

 

Do I care what you think?

 

You told us over and over that Tommy Kelly was going to be the next Kris Jenkins. He was good, he wasn't close to being Kris Jenkins in his prime. You also pounded your chest about the Raiders awesome defense after a 2-14 season. 

 

You are the very definition of a "delusional homer." Nothing you say or link to has any credibility whatsoever. 

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Do I care what you think?

You told us over and over that Tommy Kelly was going to be the next Kris Jenkins. He was good, he wasn't close to being Kris Jenkins in his prime. You also pounded your chest about the Raiders awesome defense after a 2-14 season.

You are the very definition of a "delusional homer." Nothing you say or link to has any credibility whatsoever.

obviously you do because your keeping it up, when I proved you didn't know what your talking about( why you don't butt in to someone else debate).I liked how you tried and change the conversation. I'm done debating you now because my brain killing me right now.

I really said Tom Kelly was going to be the next Kris Jenkins. Does that sound believable when I never was a Kris Jenkins fan.( was more a Damon Harrison type - good run defender not much as a pass rusher). Not to mention both players are totally different players. kris Jenkins was hard to move Nt 6'5 350 +. , while Tom Kelly 6'6 310 was more a under tackle.( penetrator) So do you want to change what I said, or you still sticking with your bogus story.

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obviously you do because your keeping it up, when I proved you didn't know what your talking about( why you don't butt in to someone else debate).I liked how you tried and change the conversation. I'm done debating you now because my brain killing me right now.

I really said Tom Kelly was going to be the next Kris Jenkins. Does that sound believable when I never was a Kris Jenkins fan.( was more a Damon Harrison type - good run defender not much as a pass rusher). Not to mention both players are totally different players. kris Jenkins was hard to move Nt 6'5 350 +. , while Tom Kelly 6'6 310 was more a under tackle.( penetrator) So do you want to change what I said, or you still sticking with your bogus story.

 

No, you said it. 

 

I wouldn't admit it now either if I were you. 

 

I like how you didn't even try to dispute your bragging about the defense of a 2-win team. 

 

You can be as moronically arrogant as you want my little friend, doesn't change the fact that by week 4 you will be nowhere to be found when the Raiders are 0-3.

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No, you said it.

I wouldn't admit it now either if I were you.

I like how you didn't even try to dispute your bragging about the defense of a 2-win team.

You can be as moronically arrogant as you want my little friend, doesn't change the fact that by week 4 you will be nowhere to be found when the Raiders are 0-3.

Again I showed you why you have to be wrong the comments you are alluding to me about Tommy Kelly( never made a kris Jenkins comparison as they play two different positions) Okay let's go by your story. who had a better career Kris Jenkins( Jet career) or Tommy Kelly ( Raider career). Let's compare http://www.nfl.com/player/krisjenkins/2504634/profile. Versus Tommy Kelly. http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2978/tommy-kelly ( go by the same time frame Jenkins was a Jet)

Even though never said what you claim , you have to say Tom Kelly was better than Kris Jenkins the Jet.( hey so you want to give me one I will take it)

I said a lot of things that I got wrong, but if you don't remember what I said correctly than whose fault is that.

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yes I do Brian Billick was the coach of the Ravens and he knows exactly how Ozzie Newsome board was. how he was the highest prospect Ozzie Newsome ever graded his nine years with the Ravens . F A C T. ( I gave you a link- where's your proof) Again teams don't formulate their draft boards for months, and than go away from that on draft day. Stop it already and move on- you were wrong.

Yes Bilick said that Ozzie liked him.

Nowhere, anywhere will you find a shred of proof that says they would have taken a complete and utter moron without a chance in hell of ever learning how to play on the NFL level, who lacked the dedication and leadership to play QB with the first pick of the draft if they had it.

Two completely different things. And again, if they thought this then I'm right and they're wrong.

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Again I showed you why you have to be wrong the comments you are alluding to me about Tommy Kelly( never made a kris Jenkins comparison as they play two different positions) Okay let's go by your story. who had a better career Kris Jenkins( Jet career) or Tommy Kelly ( Raider career). Let's compare http://www.nfl.com/player/krisjenkins/2504634/profile. Versus Tommy Kelly http://www.nfl.com/player/tommykelly/2505830/profile. ( go by the same time frame Jenkins was a Jet)

Even though never said what you claim , you have to say Tom Kelly was better than Kris Jenkins the Jet.( hey so you want to give me one I will take it)

I said a lot of things that I got wrong, but if you don't remember what I said correctly than whose fault is that.

 

I said Kris Jenkins in his prime. A little reading comprehension goes a long way, son. 

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obviously you do because your keeping it up, when I proved you didn't know what your talking about( why you don't butt in to someone else debate).I liked how you tried and change the conversation. I'm done debating you now because my brain killing me right now.

I really said Tom Kelly was going to be the next Kris Jenkins. Does that sound believable when I never was a Kris Jenkins fan.( was more a Damon Harrison type - good run defender not much as a pass rusher). Not to mention both players are totally different players. kris Jenkins was hard to move Nt 6'5 350 +. , while Tom Kelly 6'6 310 was more a under tackle.( penetrator) So do you want to change what I said, or you still sticking with your bogus story.

Instead of yet another techno babble reason from you explaining why a Raider player is better than anyone else, specifically a jets player you actually watched them play it would go better. You wish you had a healthy Kris Jenkins. Tom Kelley was nowhere near the player a healthy Kris Jenkins was. Or any of the countless other players and units you've predicted where better than their Jets counterparts.
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Yes Bilick said that Ozzie liked him.

Nowhere, anywhere will you find a shred of proof that says they would have taken a complete and utter moron without a chance in hell of ever learning how to play on the NFL level, who lacked the dedication and leadership to play QB with the first pick of the draft if they had it.

Two completely different things. And again, if they thought this then I'm right and they're wrong.

Let me say it slow so you can comprehend. J a M a R c u s R U S S E L l was the highest prospect the Ravens ever put on a grade on under Ozzie Newsome . What do you think they put the prospects in a hat and pick the best prospect that way( maybe the Jets do it that way). what do you think they do all their research and formulate their board. ( how much money goes into making that determination) Once that board is determine that's what they go by. Jamarcus Russell was number 1 on their board because Ozzie Newsome thought he was that good. ( goes show when it comes to Qb position even the best sometimes get it wrong)

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Instead of yet another techno babble reason from you explaining why a Raider player is better than anyone else, specifically a jets player you actually watched them play it would go better. You wish you had a healthy Kris Jenkins. Tom Kelley was nowhere near the player a healthy Kris Jenkins was. Or any of the countless other players and units you've predicted where better than their Jets counterparts.

Who had the better numbers Kris Jenkins( the Jet) or Tommy Kelly( the Raider) going by Kris Jenkins Jet career. Never said that but if you want to give me credit than I got one right,

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I said Kris Jenkins in his prime. A little reading comprehension goes a long way, son.

who cares as all we care about what his career was with the jets. case in point that like saying Ronny Lott Jet career versus his prime years. Big difference. kris Jenkins Jet career <<<<<<<<<<<<< Tommy Kelly ( time period Jenkins wAs a jet). Even though I never made that point, I will take getting that one right. Thanks (you two shouldn't use examples because you do the impossible and make me look right- even though we all know I got a lot wrong.
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I think they're real close. Clowney has more freakish potential, but Williams has actually shown his.

They certainly don't play the same position. I'd love to have them both on opposite sides of the line.

My premise was both of the guys were "considered the top player in their drafts", Williams fell but Clowney didn't so I just threw it out..

Thx

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He was the highest because of all the sizzurp.

There is no arguing over the fact that the Ravens consider him like a lot of teams the best prospect in that draft. Another fact is everyone was wrong , and he was one of the worst Qb's, that's the only thing Geno Smith has in common with Russell - wasn't as highly rated as Russell , but has been the worst Qb in the league since he enter it.

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There is no arguing over the fact that the Ravens consider him like a lot of teams the best prospect in that draft. Another fact is everyone was wrong , and he was one of the worst Qb's, that's the only thing Geno Smith has in common with Russell - wasn't as highly rated as Russell , but has been the worst Qb in the league since he enter it.

OK... now in English.

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Let me say it slow so you can comprehend. J a M a R c u s R U S S E L l was the highest prospect the Ravens ever put on a grade on under Ozzie Newsome . What do you think they put the prospects in a hat and pick the best prospect that way( maybe the Jets do it that way). what do you think they do all their research and formulate their board. ( how much money goes into making that determination) Once that board is determine that's what they go by. Jamarcus Russell was number 1 on their board because Ozzie Newsome thought he was that good. ( goes show when it comes to Qb position even the best sometimes get it wrong)

Let me say it to you one last time.  Find me other than Billick saying this that its true.

Then show me proof, that I can only repeat so many times, that they would have picked him.  Saying he was the highest rated player on their board because of ability is the same as saying we would have picked him. It was throw away line on a ESPN interview with Billick who was making a point.  Doesnt meant that when push came to shove they would have take him.  No matter how many time you keep saying it.  

 

And again that I hated him and the pick, makes anyone who felt that way wrong, hes the biggest bust in the history of the NFL.  So stroke yourself that Billick thought something about the pick,  

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There is no arguing over the fact that the Ravens consider him like a lot of teams the best prospect in that draft. Another fact is everyone was wrong , and he was one of the worst Qb's, that's the only thing Geno Smith has in common with Russell - wasn't as highly rated as Russell , but has been the worst Qb in the league since he enter it.

WTF are you talking about?  Smith is a better QB than Russell ever was and was only a 2nd round pick.  And no one is defending the pick anywhere near as you are trying to defending taking Russell with the first overall pick.  All because of one season at LSU the idiot Raiders once again fell in love with a big guy who has measurable's while missing a brain and giving him $61 million. 

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Let me say it to you one last time.  Find me other than Billick saying this that its true.

Then show me proof, that I can only repeat so many times, that they would have picked him.  Saying he was the highest rated player on their board because of ability is the same as saying we would have picked him. It was throw away line on a ESPN interview with Billick who was making a point.  Doesnt meant that when push came to shove they would have take him.  No matter how many time you keep saying it.  

 

And again that I hated him and the pick, makes anyone who felt that way wrong, hes the biggest bust in the history of the NFL.  So stroke yourself that Billick thought something about the pick,

If you know anything about Ozzie Newsome is they would always draft the player they felt was the best player ( over the need or what they had at that position ) Well Jamarcus Russell was the highest prospect ever graded on his board. of course they would have taken J Russell if they had the number 1 pick.( over Calvin Johnson). Ozzie Newsome would have got it wrong just like the Raiders got it wrong. The Ravens didn't have number 1 pick so it they had no shot at Russell. Ozzie Newsome right hand man was one of the biggest Jamarcus Russell supporters. ( Savage- look it up)

Let it go because it obvious you don't know what your talking about

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WTF are you talking about?  Smith is a better QB than Russell ever was and was only a 2nd round pick.  And no one is defending the pick anywhere near as you are trying to defending taking Russell with the first overall pick.  All because of one season at LSU the idiot Raiders once again fell in love with a big guy who has measurable's while missing a brain and giving him $61 million.

geno Smith like Jamarcus Russell has been the worst Qb since he came into the league. ( okay instead of going number 1 , teams knew he wasn't that good from the beginning- they were right ) . the point was you always take the franchise Qb over any other position . Ozzie Newsome and most every other team had Russell as the best prospect and a franchise qb.( Mayock still talks about his pro day being the best display every put on by a Qb).

It turned out everyone was wrong and he turned out to be one of the biggest busts. Just because you keep trying to say it one way doesn't make it accurate.

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If you know anything about Ozzie Newsome is they would always draft the player they felt was the best player ( over the need or what they had at that position ) Well Jamarcus Russell was the highest prospect ever graded on his board. of course they would have taken J Russell if they had the number 1 pick.( over Calvin Johnson). Ozzie Newsome would have got it wrong just like the Raiders got it wrong. The Ravens didn't have number 1 pick so it they had no shot at Russell. Ozzie Newsome right hand man was one of the biggest Jamarcus Russell supporters. ( Savage- look it up)

Let it go because it obvious you don't know what your talking about

I forgot, you know Ozzie. You know what his board has looked like and who he would or wouldn't take. You just keep repeating at you know what he would have done just because of an interview with Billick.

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geno Smith like Jamarcus Russell has been the worst Qb since he came into the league. ( okay instead of going number 1 , teams knew he wasn't that good from the beginning- they were right ) . the point was you always take the franchise Qb over any other position . Ozzie Newsome and most every other team had Russell as the best prospect and a franchise qb.( Mayock still talks about his pro day being the best display every put on by a Qb).

It turned out everyone was wrong and he turned out to be one of the biggest busts. Just because you keep trying to say it one way doesn't make it accurate.

You keep leaving out that our 2nd round pick is way better than the guy your idiot team took 1 overall.

Somehow the Jets taking him in the 2nd is an insult and taking Russell 1st overall you defend. And then tell us Ozzie may have liked him too. Oh yeah and everyone else did as well. As if somehow that makes the Raider pick right. Lol

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You keep leaving out that our 2nd round pick is way better than the guy your idiot team took 1 overall.

Somehow the Jets taking him in the 2nd is an insult and taking Russell 1st overall you defend. And then tell us Ozzie may have liked him too. Oh yeah and everyone else did as well. As if somehow that makes the Raider pick right. Lol

No everyone was wrong on Jamarcus Russell, he wasn't a very good NFL qb. Geno Smith sucks just as bad as Russell , but the Jets picked him in second round( so not as bad as blunder as taking him number 1 overall) . so when you consider that you came out ahead, but in the long term your no closer to having a franchise Qb. only you know why you're trying to rehash this. ( Russell long gone but Geno Smith still under center for the jets- for how many games, till they throw in the towel and say enough is enough . Time to find a real Qb.
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No everyone was wrong on Jamarcus Russell, he wasn't a very good NFL qb. Geno Smith sucks just as bad as Russell , but the Jets picked him in second round( so not as bad as blunder as taking him number 1 overall) . so when you consider that you came out ahead, but in the long term your no closer to having a franchise Qb. only you know why you're trying to rehash this. ( Russell long gone but Geno Smith still under center for the jets- for how many games, till they throw in the towel and say enough is enough . Time to find a real Qb.

In 3 years Russell won 7 games. Geno did better in his rookie year only. He does suck a lot of the time. But he's much better than Russell.

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In 3 years Russell won 7 games. Geno did better in his rookie year only. He does suck a lot of the time. But he's much better than Russell.

Russell was the biggest bust of all time, period. Only a fool would dispute this.  In fact, he is one of main reasons the NFL went so hard on rookie salaries in their next negotiations with the players.   

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