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One more QB thread; who would you rather? Sanchez/Smith


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Would I rather get stabbed in the balls or shot in the dick? Idk, either one sucks lol Seriously though at this point I think Geno has more potential to grow. We kind of already know what Sanch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1na-L2cD1NI

Derrick Mason was gassed and at the end of his career at that point and 11' was when Holmes started to drop production hard and became a cancer to the team.

Mason got dumped from Baltimore and Flacco laughed. Billick essentially said that Mason was a cancer. Holmes was always a POS. But, Rex loved their swagger and the fact that his overrated defenses struggled against Holmes in the AFC North. Sanchez was an immature, emo surfer boy and they surrounded him with the cast of Oz.

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While Sanchez was pedestrian in the regular season for 2009 and to a lesser extent 2010, he did go on some epic playoff runs. He is Bizarro Matt Ryan. Unfortunately for him I doubt he gets the chance to play in playoffs ever again

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At worst, given adequate talent around him and a competent Offensive staff (Not Brian Nepotismheimer or Tony Sparano), Mark Sanchez would have developed into what Alex Smith is right now. Average to above starter, but with the difference being Marks enormous big game experience and toughness.

 

But we needed to throw our draft picks away in Rex's attempt to validate his fathers theory that Offense is superfluous to winning in football, and all we had to do was lock everyone down with a #1 pick at Corner and Blitz Blitz Blitz our way to the championship!

 

I have zero hope for Geno being anything more than a future backup somewhere else.....

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Mason got dumped from Baltimore and Flacco laughed. Billick essentially said that Mason was a cancer. Holmes was always a POS. But, Rex loved their swagger and the fact that his overrated defenses struggled against Holmes in the AFC North. Sanchez was an immature, emo surfer boy and they surrounded him with the cast of Oz.

Sanchez never had the mind of a franchise QB. Not even just that he was immature.. You could just tell he was weak minded.
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Sanchez never had the mind of a franchise QB. Not even just that he was immature.. You could just tell he was weak minded.

Maybe? Probably? Difficult to predict the impact that emotional maturity can have on a player. Regardless, it's undeniable that Tannenbaum and Rex handled a young QB in the exact opposite way you're supposed to.

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Maybe? Probably? Difficult to predict the impact that emotional maturity can have on a player. Regardless, it's undeniable that Tannenbaum and Rex handled a young QB in the exact opposite way you're supposed to.

Oh for sure. Tanny failed to keep the AFC championship roster together. I remember that year.. He let everyone go that contributed. He stunted Marks growth. On Rex's side he couldn't pay enough attention to offense and hired three different guys with three different systems. Some people cannot pick playbooks up in one off season and that stunted Marks growth as well. Mark could of been a pretty solid passer in this league. Who knows what his ceiling could of been with the proper coaching.
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Oh for sure. Tanny failed to keep the AFC championship roster together. I remember that year.. He let everyone go that contributed. He stunted Marks growth. On Rex's side he couldn't pay enough attention to offense and hired three different guys with three different systems. Some people cannot pick playbooks up in one off season and that stunted Marks growth as well. Mark could of been a pretty solid passer in this league. Who knows what his ceiling could of been with the proper coaching.

Within 09-10, the Jets lost the core of their leadership group: Tony Richardson, Kris Jenkins, Jerricho Cotchery, Thomas Jones, Shaun Ellis and Alan Faneca and replaced them with Cro, LaDainian Tomlinson, Plaxico Burress, Santonio Holmes, Derrick Mason, and Jason Taylor. And people wonder why the locker room imploded.

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The LOL is because you're wrong. Plenty of people didn't think Sanchez was anything special even after his first 2 seasons. Plenty more didn't think he was the franchise QB we've been dreaming about for 40 years.

 

It is revisionist fabricated nonsense to say there wasn't a single article or forum post questioning Sanchez at QB in September 2011. It was quite common.

 

Sanchez was Steve Young (or Brett Favre or Peyton Manning) as much as Ryan was Bill Walsh.

 

He's not a Jets QB anymore (thankfully). Like Ryan, he is the enemy.

 

Perhaps you were head of yourselves here, but that's not how it played out on JI and it's not how it played out in the media.

 

No one was questioning Sanchez' development as a 22 year old after the winning and the playoff performances, certainly no one was screaming that we should grab Tim Tebow and Tony Sporano to straighten him out.

SAR I

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Bringing in Holmes and Derrick Mason before the 2011 season ended Sanchez.

 

Yup, and the offseason's of 2011 and 2012 were comical, its as if offensive football didn't matter.

 

In Rex's mind, I'm pretty sure that's true.

 

SAR I

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Oh for sure. Tanny failed to keep the AFC championship roster together. I remember that year.. He let everyone go that contributed. He stunted Marks growth. On Rex's side he couldn't pay enough attention to offense and hired three different guys with three different systems. Some people cannot pick playbooks up in one off season and that stunted Marks growth as well. Mark could of been a pretty solid passer in this league. Who knows what his ceiling could of been with the proper coaching.

Well we do know that Mark threw for over 64% last year the highest percentage in Eagle history and had an ok QB rating of 88.

Does that mean he will be better or great heck no.

But it does mean that Sanchez in the right environment could be serviceable and effective when he got to the playoffs.

The idea that a QB is supposed to go to the AFC championship game with a bad OL, poor RBs and CBA level WRs is insane and something that some posters seem to still cling to.

Good to great teams make it to the SB and win it, period.

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Perhaps you were head of yourselves here, but that's not how it played out on JI and it's not how it played out in the media.

 

No one was questioning Sanchez' development as a 22 year old after the winning and the playoff performances, certainly no one was screaming that we should grab Tim Tebow and Tony Sporano to straighten him out.

SAR I

 

 

Also false that no one was questioning him in the playoffs. You may not have, but you aren't everyone.

 

I'm not going to go into all the problems Sanchez had on his own, as it was discussed to death here for years. He hasn't been on the field for the Jets since 2012. He's on the Eagles, who don't want him starting for them either, and twisted themselves into a pretzel to get Bradford (who no one wanted before his most recent injury) and give up that plus far more for Mariota.

 

He is not a NY Jet. Screw him.

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Also false that no one was questioning him in the playoffs. You may not have, but you aren't everyone.

I'm not going to go into all the problems Sanchez had on his own, as it was discussed to death here for years. He hasn't been on the field for the Jets since 2012. He's on the Eagles, who don't want him starting for them either, and twisted themselves into a pretzel to get Bradford (who no one wanted before his most recent injury) and give up that plus far more for Mariota.

He is not a NY Jet. Screw him.

To be fair to SAR, JN has always been the first place to dump all over every Jets player. Aten killed the Sanchez pick before it was made, citing the history of collegiate QBs with as little college experience as Sanchez coming to the pros.

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To be fair to SAR, JN has always been the first place to dump all over every Jets player. Aten killed the Sanchez pick before it was made, citing the history of collegiate QBs with as little college experience as Sanchez coming to the pros.

 

Aten isn't JetNation. 

 

Most people (myself included) didn't start to dump on Sanchez until seeing him play.

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Aten isn't JetNation.

Most people (myself included) didn't start to dump on Sanchez until seeing him play.

I'm just saying it's entirely plausible that a non-JN person didn't see Sanchez criticism until 2011

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To be fair to SAR, JN has always been the first place to dump all over every Jets player. Aten killed the Sanchez pick before it was made, citing the history of collegiate QBs with as little college experience as Sanchez coming to the pros.

I too thought Sanchez shouldn't be drafted if the Jets were going to start him based on this very fact!!!

People posting said Rex and Tanny had a plan.

They had a plan alright, one that involved undermining the very inexperienced QB that they themselves had drafted.

Sparano anyone?

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No, it isn't plausible unless one simply chose to ignore all such criticism.

Outside of Francesa, not one NY media personality criticized Rex with any conviction until he was officially off the Jets payroll. I don't recall much in the way of Sanchez criticism until 2011 preseason, do you? I seem to recall a bunch of Drew Brees statistical comparisons.

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Outside of Francesa, not one NY media personality criticized Rex with any conviction until he was officially off the Jets payroll. I don't recall much in the way of Sanchez criticism until 2011 preseason, do you? I seem to recall a bunch of Drew Brees statistical comparisons.

 

Sure there was. He was one of the lowest-rated QBs in the league 2 years running. Because individual criticisms don't stick out in your mind 5 years later doesn't mean they didn't exist.  Few people made Drew Brees comparisons. More people around the country felt the team carried him. Then when that talent around him wasn't the same, including a defense that gave up few points despite all those drives he ended prematurely, ultimately he was what he was. 

 

We'll see what Smith is, as a 3rd-year, soon enough. If he's mostly unchanged from years 1-2 (or only nominally better), then we should dump him as well. I haven't been as critical of him as I was of Sanchez because Smith didn't blow any serious/realistic chances at a winner.

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To be fair to SAR, JN has always been the first place to dump all over every Jets player. Aten killed the Sanchez pick before it was made, citing the history of collegiate QBs with as little college experience as Sanchez coming to the pros.

 

Thank you.  No one on JI complained about Sanchez after the 2010 season and post-season, and I just did a Google News search from the 2011 preseason and all I found were articles calling him "elite" and being named a captain and being on the cover of GQ and sleeping with Jennifer Anniston.

 

Point is, if I said "everyone" and that was too broad in scope, fine, make it "99% of Jets fans" and it'll be just as valid.  Coming into the 2011 Super Bowl Or Bust season, Mark Sanchez was not cited as a problem.  He was a big part of the solution.  Except for the neglect apparently.

 

SAR I

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Thank you.  No one on JI complained about Sanchez after the 2010 season and post-season, and I just did a Google News search from the 2011 preseason and all I found were articles calling him "elite" and being named a captain and being on the cover of GQ and sleeping with Jennifer Anniston.

 

Point is, if I said "everyone" and that was too broad in scope, fine, make it "99% of Jets fans" and it'll be just as valid.  Coming into the 2011 Super Bowl Or Bust season, Mark Sanchez was not cited as a problem.  He was a big part of the solution.  Except for the neglect apparently.

 

SAR I

 

The big story with the GQ cover was Aaron Rodgers calling it "embarrassing" IIRC.

 

Elite, lol. 

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Sanchez never had the mind of a franchise QB. Not even just that he was immature.. You could just tell he was weak minded.

I was a supporter until he checked out under the pressure.

I admit his final season was not his fault, but you got to keep your head up man, and keep fighting.

Triple clutch then dump off to a dlineman, or run it up Slausion's behind.

Not only could he not pull the trigger on a pass anymore, he couldn't even decided which direction to run.

A QB cannot fold like that, and expect to ever regain the trust of his team.

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Mason got dumped from Baltimore and Flacco laughed. Billick essentially said that Mason was a cancer. Holmes was always a POS. But, Rex loved their swagger and the fact that his overrated defenses struggled against Holmes in the AFC North. Sanchez was an immature, emo surfer boy and they surrounded him with the cast of Oz.

Harbaugh was the HC when Baltimore cut Mason, not Billick....Billick was fired at least 3 years before Mason was cut. Mason left on good terms from at least what was reported, it was for salary reasons, plus he was 37 years old, but he was great for them while he was a Raven.

Here's an article on Mason being cut: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/909306

Now he was terrible in his short stint as a Jet, that goes without saying as it only lasted a handful of games. However Mason wasn't brought in to be an upgrade over Cotchery, it wasn't "Plan A". The Jets brought in Mason after Cotchery asked for his release because he wanted to be a starter and was upset when they brought in Plaxico to replace Braylon, plus it was reported Cotch didn't like dealing with the diva group of WRs on the team led by Holmes (can't blame the guy for that).

I hope Tannenbaum did all he could to convince Cotchery to stay before he granted his request to be released since he was a big part of our success the past couple years, so you can definitely question how he handled that situation. Bringing in Burress was a decent gamble at the time. Yes he missed 2 years of football in prison, but they needed an affordable replacement for Braylon and prior to being sentenced Burress was beasting.

The biggest mistake was resigning Holmes to that huge contract IMO. It was a great move to trade a 5th for him as he was cheap and played great in 2010, but it was proven he couldn't be relied on once he got paid from how he conducted himself as a leader and teammate after 2010.

A lot of contributing factors went into the regression/lack of progression in Sanchez' growth as a QB (coaching, being held accountable, losing weapons, teammates and leaders like TRich, Braylon, Keller, Woody, Jones then LT, etc) and the aholes at receiver were definitely near the top of the list.

In the end we'll never know if Sanchez could of grown into the Franchise QB we hoped for when he was drafted if he had better coaching and supporting cast.....but we can say for sure those factors didn't help the cause.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

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I think part of Ryan's problem has been the new practice rules.  Ryan is not a disciplinarian, but he is the kind of guy who is going to call for more hitting in practice when guys **** around.  The new rules kept him from doing that and that took away the one thing that I remember him doing.  He didn't make them run laps like Mangini the first couple of years, but there were a few times that I think he had them doing more in pads as punishment.  I think the new CBA restricted what he could do.  Basically every team practices 100% of the allowable time.  Obviously, he should be trying to find an alternative method, but I do think it hurt him more than some other coaches.

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I was a supporter until he checked out under the pressure.

I admit his final season was not his fault, but you got to keep your head up man, and keep fighting.

Triple clutch then dump off to a dlineman, or run it up Slausion's behind.

Not only could he not pull the trigger on a pass anymore, he couldn't even decided which direction to run.

A QB cannot fold like that, and expect to ever regain the trust of his team.

It all traumatized him in that Ravens game of 2011. He got smashed almost every play.. After that he was hesitant on everything he did under center
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I was a supporter until he checked out under the pressure.

I admit his final season was not his fault, but you got to keep your head up man, and keep fighting.

Triple clutch then dump off to a dlineman, or run it up Slausion's behind.

Not only could he not pull the trigger on a pass anymore, he couldn't even decided which direction to run.

A QB cannot fold like that, and expect to ever regain the trust of his team.

 

Phil Simms did.

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I think part of Ryan's problem has been the new practice rules.  Ryan is not a disciplinarian, but he is the kind of guy who is going to call for more hitting in practice when guys **** around.  The new rules kept him from doing that and that took away the one thing that I remember him doing.  He didn't make them run laps like Mangini the first couple of years, but there were a few times that I think he had them doing more in pads as punishment.  I think the new CBA restricted what he could do.  Basically every team practices 100% of the allowable time.  Obviously, he should be trying to find an alternative method, but I do think it hurt him more than some other coaches.

 

LOL, thanks. I needed a good laugh.

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It all traumatized him in that Ravens game of 2011. He got smashed almost every play.. After that he was hesitant on everything he did under center

 

The offseason before the 2011 season started the destruction of Sanchez, and this game completed it. He was never going to be an elite QB, but he could have been Eli Manning or better, which would be looking pretty damn good right now. Rex absolutely destroyed him, it was so obvious to anyone with eyes and a brain, which excludes many Jet fans.

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Sure there was. He was one of the lowest-rated QBs in the league 2 years running. Because individual criticisms don't stick out in your mind 5 years later doesn't mean they didn't exist.  Few people made Drew Brees comparisons. More people around the country felt the team carried him. Then when that talent around him wasn't the same, including a defense that gave up few points despite all those drives he ended prematurely, ultimately he was what he was. 

 

We'll see what Smith is, as a 3rd-year, soon enough. If he's mostly unchanged from years 1-2 (or only nominally better), then we should dump him as well. I haven't been as critical of him as I was of Sanchez because Smith didn't blow any serious/realistic chances at a winner.

 

I am curious to hear what you actually expected from Sanchez in year 1 or 2 if you were so disappointed in him after 2010? The guy had zero business starting in 2009, and 2010 should have been his first year playing. Despite that he performed reasonably well in the playoffs both years and was not the reason they lost in either of the elimination games they played in those two years. In 2010 he put up respectable numbers, and came up big in multiple games in which the defense blew a lead very late in the game.

 

I find it interesting that you blame Sanchez for "blowing any serious/realistic chances at a winner" when he was not the HC or GM who wanted him, drafted him, or decided to start him in either of those two years. 

 

I also find it interesting that you don't hold Rex accountable for letting Sanchez prance around the locker room like an immature frat boy, instead of acting like a leader.

 

I guess love is blind.

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Phil Simms did.

I was not paying too much attention to the Giants then since I was a kid, but I don't recall hearing that Simms was afraid to throw the ball.

I mean I understand that Sanchez had excuses. The receivers were not in the right place most of the time, but you still need to throw them open. You can't stare them down waiting until after they're open to throw it. You may as well just give up. Which is what he did.

Look at Brady the beginning of last year. He kept on those receivers until they started to get it. That's what Sanchez should have done.

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And when you look at the people the Bills have brought in this year, you can see exactly how much Rex has learned about population dynamics.

Will Rex have a better chance with a competent GM? Maybe Whaley can some what cover his idiotic mistakes lol..
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