Gone Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 you're like a little boy tugging on the Ape's ponytail because you have a crush on him. Is that all he's tugging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 i didn't see them... in any event, what are your thoughts on leelou 1) why didn't she mention this conversion aspect right away? Is there a reason to keep it secret? 2) Why not offer to convert doggin, who town clearly didn't want to lynch in his first game back 3) re 2: Particularly when JC the converter was on the ropes at this point. 4) Why not convert the blubbering sack of sadness crusher to town last night when he was crying about it, vet herself + add a townie 1. No reason to keep it secret. Pro-town thing to do was tell us that conversions are part of the game, at the very least. 2. I agree with the sentiment here, but speculating on friendly gestures is hard... perhaps she saw viewing as more important than converting that early in the game 3. She couldn't have known JC was the converter, so this point is irrelevant 4. I agree with the sentiment here as well, but again, maybe she thought viewing >>>> converting I have to re-read her reveal, did she explain exactly how it works? Like, she viewed a Survivor and he came back as non-town. Is that normal for a Survivor? Why wouldn't the role just work like this: view a survivor, they get converted view a townie, you get townie result view a scum, you get non-townie result The way Nolderp made her role might just not make sense. With this many survivors in the game, it's altogether possible that she could 3 guilty in a row if she view doggin, crush and 80... and maybe none of them scum! How is that balanced for the town? It's not, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 the tangent was necessary cause you and nyn are putting forth some theory that scum was so unnerved by your conviction they send Pac and 80 on suicide missions to fend you off.. i think that is nonsense, the tangent was roping in your terrible history for shiny objecting yourself. btw this and the terminator line by far biggest laughs of the game.. can you imagine JC screaming at me in a scum chat to "DAMN THE TORPEDOS APE IS ON TO ME ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK"!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Now lynching who she's converted is an interesting strategy I'll give you that.. but even if we prove she's town that day, the same night she can be converted. At this point I'm not really inclined to believe her.. she says she's gimped on who she can convert back and surmises it's only survivors.. whole thing sounds whackadoodle. Well, the bold would only be true going forward IF there is a deputy mafia recruiter... and you already adamantly called me stupid for suggesting that, didn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 1. No reason to keep it secret. Pro-town thing to do was tell us that conversions are part of the game, at the very least. 2. I agree with the sentiment here, but speculating on friendly gestures is hard... perhaps she saw viewing as more important than converting that early in the game 3. She couldn't have known JC was the converter, so this point is irrelevant 4. I agree with the sentiment here as well, but again, maybe she thought viewing >>>> converting I have to re-read her reveal, did she explain exactly how it works? Like, she viewed a Survivor and he came back as non-town. Is that normal for a Survivor? Why wouldn't the role just work like this: view a survivor, they get converted view a townie, you get townie result view a scum, you get non-townie result The way Nolderp made her role might just not make sense. With this many survivors in the game, it's altogether possible that she could 3 guilty in a row if she view doggin, crush and 80... and maybe none of them scum! How is that balanced for the town? It's not, imo. We're talking about Nolderp, who openly admits he doesnt pay attention to balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 1. No reason to keep it secret. Pro-town thing to do was tell us that conversions are part of the game, at the very least. 2. I agree with the sentiment here, but speculating on friendly gestures is hard... perhaps she saw viewing as more important than converting that early in the game 3. She couldn't have known JC was the converter, so this point is irrelevant 4. I agree with the sentiment here as well, but again, maybe she thought viewing >>>> converting I have to re-read her reveal, did she explain exactly how it works? Like, she viewed a Survivor and he came back as non-town. Is that normal for a Survivor? Why wouldn't the role just work like this: view a survivor, they get converted view a townie, you get townie result view a scum, you get non-townie result The way Nolderp made her role might just not make sense. With this many survivors in the game, it's altogether possible that she could 3 guilty in a row if she view doggin, crush and 80... and maybe none of them scum! How is that balanced for the town? It's not, imo. no it's relevant if she was N0 convert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 btw this and the terminator line by far biggest laughs of the game.. can you imagine JC screaming at me in a scum chat to "DAMN THE TORPEDOS APE IS ON TO ME ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK"!!! Sulu, max power to phasers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 btw this and the terminator line by far biggest laughs of the game.. can you imagine JC screaming at me in a scum chat to "DAMN THE TORPEDOS APE IS ON TO ME ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK"!!! I imagine it sounding more like "******* stupid ape, i'll see if I can get him to drown himself out". If he doesn't get lynched, then he keeps converting and grows scum numbers. Eventually, if he or you gets exposed, at least you'll have advanced further into the game, grown your numbers and given yourselves a shot... the alternative was him getting lynched on D1. Losing your recruiter on D1 is game-ending... so, given the ramifications, it's not a reach to suggest that maybe at least 1 scum or converted member of scum would take the risk of saving him. Even further of a reach to suggest that a huge ego would take that risk with confidence that he could both pull it off, and talk himself out of any heat if it goes wrong. Which is exactly what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 the tangent was necessary cause you and nyn are putting forth some theory that scum was so unnerved by your conviction they send Pac and 80 on suicide missions to fend you off.. i think that is nonsense, the tangent was roping in your terrible history for shiny objecting yourself. Okay. How about this...... put ape aside for a minute (I know it's hard, but try anyhow). Do you at least agree that in this situation... where a recruiter gets so much heat D1... that it is more plausible that his teamamtes would try to discredit the case and/or try to push another train? If so, those two still fall in that criteria. Pac kept going on and on about how Ape's case on JC was baseless... and only changed his tune when JC was so far gone there was no way he was gonna avoid the noose. 80 just stayed on Ape the entire time and didn't budge. You're missing the point. I'm not saying they were unnerved by Ape.I'm saying that it's likely that they were unnerved by the very real possibility that they were going to lose JC D1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Now lynching who she's converted is an interesting strategy I'll give you that.. but even if we prove she's town that day, the same night she can be converted. At this point I'm not really inclined to believe her.. she says she's gimped on who she can convert back and surmises it's only survivors.. whole thing sounds whackadoodle. another thing is that there could be 2 converting factions, Walt and Gus.. where does Jesse fit in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Okay. How about this...... put ape aside for a minute (I know it's hard, but try anyhow). Do you at least agree that in this situation... where a recruiter gets so much heat D1... that it is more plausible that his teamamtes would try to discredit the case and/or try to push another train? If so, those two still fall in that criteria. Pac kept going on and on about how Ape's case on JC was baseless... and only changed his tune when JC was so far gone there was no way he was gonna avoid the noose. 80 just stayed on Ape the entire time and didn't budge. You're missing the point. I'm not saying they were unnerved by Ape.I'm saying that it's likely that they were unnerved by the very real possibility that they were going to lose JC D1. No i don't agree, again it has nothing to do with ape. I think the strategy isn't to go after the main antagonist, not at all, it's to case someone else and/or make yourself the better lynch candidate as the converter logs off for a bit.. If I'm on Jc's team, I say step away from the keyboard then work hard at getting myself some attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 no it's relevant if she was N0 convert All 4 of my responses are within the context that she's not lying. There's almost no point in answering those questions if the context is agreeing that she's lying... because the answer would be "she's lying" to all 4. If she's original scum or N0 convert, then yeah, she'd be lying to stop the lynch on JC, especially given her timing for revealing. I already put this out there that her reveal is what killed the JC train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 All 4 of my responses are within the context that she's not lying. There's almost no point in answering those questions if the context is agreeing that she's lying... because the answer would be "she's lying" to all 4. If she's original scum or N0 convert, then yeah, she'd be lying to stop the lynch on JC, especially given her timing for revealing. I already put this out there that her reveal is what killed the JC train. I don;'t think much about her role or the way she's played it makes sense. I really hope she put in a convert to vet herself tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 No i don't agree, again it has nothing to do with ape. I think the strategy isn't to go after the main antagonist, not at all, it's to case someone else and/or make yourself the better lynch candidate as the converter logs off for a bit.. If I'm on Jc's team, I say step away from the keyboard then work hard at getting myself some attention. This is what happened. JC left for dentist and never came back. 80 came in and begged me to come at him. Pac came in and did everything he could to draw me to him. If I abandoned my case on JC, I can assure you, a lot of others would have as well. I didn't, and they didn't, then Leelou's reveal killed the JC train and ensured a Doggin lynch. The best way to get attention if you want to be lynched instead of your recruiter is to came after me, you know that. That's why I was so adamant about not moving off JC. I said it at the time that that was how I read what was going on. They gave me incentive to stick to my guns and for others to do the same. A cop with a guilty was literally the ONLY scenario that would save JC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolder Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Deadline: 5PM PST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Well, the bold would only be true going forward IF there is a deputy mafia recruiter... and you already adamantly called me stupid for suggesting that, didn't you? I don't think there was a CL and Deputy CL to start the game, correct. If there was, and I was him, as you suggested, then there would have been no reason whatsoever for me to try and save JC. I would have been "deputy" in name but still had the same power.. no I don't think there's a deputy.. but I also don't believe that conversions died with JC.. I've modded multiple conversion games sans deputies but allowed for conversions from the team as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 This is what happened. JC left for dentist and never came back. 80 came in and begged me to come at him. Pac came in and did everything he could to draw me to him. If I abandoned my case on JC, I can assure you, a lot of others would have as well. I didn't, and they didn't, then Leelou's reveal killed the JC train and ensured a Doggin lynch. The best way to get attention if you want to be lynched instead of your recruiter is to came after me, you know that. That's why I was so adamant about not moving off JC. I said it at the time that that was how I read what was going on. They gave me incentive to stick to my guns and for others to do the same. A cop with a guilty was literally the ONLY scenario that would save JC. jc was at 5 and then made a poor, half assed reveal that got him run up.. It's when Pac changed his tune in fact, and I don't remember what 80 was doing, but I know 80 was attacking you pre reveal for sure... The reality is that I agree with Pac here, everything JC did as a response to pressure was what got him killed. It was bad. Even day 2, him and hallia were both at 3 votes and he kept making scummy posts.. i even said to him that he's making it very hard not to vote him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 another thing is that there could be 2 converting factions, Walt and Gus.. where does Jesse fit in Potentially, yes. The characters on this show, like Jesse, Tuco, Saul, Mike and Hank... all lend themselves to some great mafia roles. Until we see evidence of two scum teams, I'm not sweating it. It's enough that we don't even know how many conversions there have been. I feel like town is going to be at a substantial disadvantage here... I hope that as the game unfolds I'm proven wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I don't think there was a CL and Deputy CL to start the game, correct. If there was, and I was him, as you suggested, then there would have been no reason whatsoever for me to try and save JC. I would have been "deputy" in name but still had the same power.. no I don't think there's a deputy.. but I also don't believe that conversions died with JC.. I've modded multiple conversion games sans deputies but allowed for conversions from the team as a whole. that's semantics pac... i don't believe conversions are done, if it is then the game is broken and town has little to worry about.. I am kinda thinking we have multiple factions here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolder Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 We're talking about Nolderp, who openly admits he doesnt pay attention to balance. I try. There are some games I just toss together (like my christmas game) but I do try most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I don't think there was a CL and Deputy CL to start the game, correct. If there was, and I was him, as you suggested, then there would have been no reason whatsoever for me to try and save JC. I would have been "deputy" in name but still had the same power.. no I don't think there's a deputy.. but I also don't believe that conversions died with JC.. I've modded multiple conversion games sans deputies but allowed for conversions from the team as a whole. If the team as a whole is allowed to submit conversions, then there doesn't need to be a specific recruiter role. This is double-talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Potentially, yes. The characters on this show, like Jesse, Tuco, Saul, Mike and Hank... all lend themselves to some great mafia roles. Until we see evidence of two scum teams, I'm not sweating it. It's enough that we don't even know how many conversions there have been. I feel like town is going to be at a substantial disadvantage here... I hope that as the game unfolds I'm proven wrong. well what I'm thinking is that he's put Walt as a bad guy, and there's no way Gus/Tuco would be town. so multiple factions are all that make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 that's semantics pac... i don't believe conversions are done, if it is then the game is broken and town has little to worry about.. I am kinda thinking we have multiple factions here Semantics my ass.. Apes whole case on me is predicated on the fact that I'm a "deputy".. I'm trying to explain that if I was, it wouldn't behoove me to out myself as I would in essence be the new CL if JC died.. he still doesn't seem to be getting it though so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 jc was at 5 and then made a poor, half assed reveal that got him run up.. It's when Pac changed his tune in fact, and I don't remember what 80 was doing, but I know 80 was attacking you pre reveal for sure... The reality is that I agree with Pac here, everything JC did as a response to pressure was what got him killed. It was bad. Even day 2, him and hallia were both at 3 votes and he kept making scummy posts.. i even said to him that he's making it very hard not to vote him. Pac changed his tune well after the reveal. He changed his tune after several people called bullsh*t on the reveal. Then Pac changed his tune... basically after taking the temperature of the town. If he wasn't working to save JC as a scum mate, then he was playing Scum MVP for them at that moment. It happens. Either way, Leelous' guilty on Doggin is what spared JC on D1. That is fact. Only ONE person suggested we lynch Jetscode anyway, and it was Lizard King. Everyone else agreed that Doggin lynch was the right play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Pac changed his tune well after the reveal. He changed his tune after several people called bullsh*t on the reveal. Then Pac changed his tune... basically after taking the temperature of the town. If he wasn't working to save JC as a scum mate, then he was playing Scum MVP for them at that moment. It happens. Either way, Leelous' guilty on Doggin is what spared JC on D1. That is fact. Only ONE person suggested we lynch Jetscode anyway, and it was Lizard King. Everyone else agreed that Doggin lynch was the right play. I voted JC to start day 2 and never unvoted lol.. scumz mvpz.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 well what I'm thinking is that he's put Walt as a bad guy, and there's no way Gus/Tuco would be town. so multiple factions are all that make sense Agreed, but they might not all convert. Maybe Gus's faction started with X amount of members for the game, while Walt recruits. Again, not interesting to me to delve into all the possibilities until we start seeing evidence. I agree with the possibilities though... just that I used to get reckless projecting how I would design a game into games I was playing, and it drove me to ignore the logic the game was giving me. I don't really chase my tail like that anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Okay. How about this...... put ape aside for a minute (I know it's hard, but try anyhow). Do you at least agree that in this situation... where a recruiter gets so much heat D1... that it is more plausible that his teamamtes would try to discredit the case and/or try to push another train? If so, those two still fall in that criteria. Pac kept going on and on about how Ape's case on JC was baseless... and only changed his tune when JC was so far gone there was no way he was gonna avoid the noose. 80 just stayed on Ape the entire time and didn't budge. You're missing the point. I'm not saying they were unnerved by Ape.I'm saying that it's likely that they were unnerved by the very real possibility that they were going to lose JC D1. I think you're making a lot of sense, sweet bunny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I voted JC to start day 2 and never unvoted lol.. scumz mvpz.. That's nice. I'm talking about the events of D1 and made that PERFECTLY clear. You know that... see, this kind of nonsense is why I know you are scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Semantics my ass.. Apes whole case on me is predicated on the fact that I'm a "deputy".. I'm trying to explain that if I was, it wouldn't behoove me to out myself as I would in essence be the new CL if JC died.. he still doesn't seem to be getting it though so.... it is semantics... whether there's an official deputy (his idea) or the team can continue to convert (your idea) it makes no sense for anyone to try and save JC.. I'm agreeing with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 it is semantics... whether there's an official deputy (his idea) or the team can continue to convert (your idea) it makes no sense for anyone to try and save JC.. I'm agreeing with you ahh.. I thought you were brushing off what I was trying to say to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Agreed, but they might not all convert. Maybe Gus's faction started with X amount of members for the game, while Walt recruits. Again, not interesting to me to delve into all the possibilities until we start seeing evidence. I agree with the possibilities though... just that I used to get reckless projecting how I would design a game into games I was playing, and it drove me to ignore the logic the game was giving me. I don't really chase my tail like that anymore. That's fair, but considering multiple factions could change in game motivations... if I'm on faction 2 and JC is getting run up, I am very happy to be on that train, for instance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 That's nice. I'm talking about the events of D1 and made that PERFECTLY clear. You know that... see, this kind of nonsense is why I know you are scum. and this is the kind of post that makes you a liability to town. day 1 we had a PERFECTLY clear guilty on Doggin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Semantics my ass.. Apes whole case on me is predicated on the fact that I'm a "deputy".. I'm trying to explain that if I was, it wouldn't behoove me to out myself as I would in essence be the new CL if JC died.. he still doesn't seem to be getting it though so.... Well, that's a bold-faced lie. My case on you goes back to D1, before we even knew it was a conversion game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I think you're making a lot of sense, sweet bunny. At least someone thinks so <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 At least someone thinks so <3 nyn.. want to hear thoughts on leelou from you, pretty please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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