Pro-Brady Arguments are Plainly Silly and His Prospects in Federal Court are Weak

[#27TheDominator 211,193]

That's fine but then he can't come crying when the fingers of guilt are  pointing at him.  If I were innocent,  I'd turn over the phone.

 

You are a terrible client.

[jeaniec 174]

You are a terrible client.

Not necessarily.  I said if I was innocent,  I would turn over the phone.  Obviously Brady had something to hide.

[#27TheDominator 211,193]

Not necessarily.  I said if I was innocent,  I would turn over the phone.  Obviously Brady had something to hide.

 

^ Terrible client personified. 

 

You think you are smarter than your lawyer or that because you are innocent nothing can harm you.  You are wrong.  You are wrong and you are a terrible client. 

[RutgersJetFan 94,062]

No dice. They had the chance to turn that information over to Wells and refused. Assuming the procedure under the CBA is like most appeal processes, there has to be a pretty compelling reason to consider evidence on appeal that was withheld at the lower level. Even taking as given that it would change the outcome, that typically isn't enough.

 

I know this to be true because I saw The Hurricane and that's what the judge tells Denzel Washington and the nerdy guy from City Slickers at the final trial.

[jeaniec 174]

^ Terrible client personified. 

 

You think you are smarter than your lawyer or that because you are innocent nothing can harm you.  You are wrong.  You are wrong and you are a terrible client. 

If Brady was trying to clear his name and was also innocent,  why would his lawyer tell him not to turn over the phone?  Like I mentioned earlier,  they could have obtained a gag order to prevent any personal information (or information not relevant) from becoming public knowledge.    Also,  it's doubtful that his lawyer told him not to turn over the phone because they did turn it over for a short period of time.  The investigators were limited to their review in the presence of Brady and attorney.  Wasn't enough time to do a complete investigation.  Do you really think Brady is innocent?  

[#27TheDominator 211,193]

If Brady was trying to clear his name and was also innocent,  why would his lawyer tell him not to turn over the phone?  Like I mentioned earlier,  they could have obtained a gag order to prevent any personal information (or information not relevant) from becoming public knowledge.    Also,  it's doubtful that his lawyer told him not to turn over the phone because they did turn it over for a short period of time.  The investigators were limited to their review in the presence of Brady and attorney.  Wasn't enough time to do a complete investigation.  Do you really think Brady is innocent?  

 

I don't think he is innocent.  However, I don't think that if he were innocent he would have turned over his phone.

[jeaniec 174]

I don't think he is innocent.  However, I don't think that if he were innocent he would have turned over his phone.

 Do you suspect infidelity?  

[thshadow 1,301]

I don't think he is innocent.  However, I don't think that if he were innocent he would have turned over his phone.

 

I believe Wells proposed that he only turn over the subset of relevant texts, as determined by (both?) lawyers...

[AFCEastFan 384]

If Brady was trying to clear his name and was also innocent,  why would his lawyer tell him not to turn over the phone?  Like I mentioned earlier,  they could have obtained a gag order to prevent any personal information (or information not relevant) from becoming public knowledge.    Also,  it's doubtful that his lawyer told him not to turn over the phone because they did turn it over for a short period of time.  The investigators were limited to their review in the presence of Brady and attorney.  Wasn't enough time to do a complete investigation.  Do you really think Brady is innocent?  

 

Re your "gag order" hypothetical, who exactly is entering the order?  The court that was not overseeing the investigation?   

 

And even if there were such an order, what if the phone has, for example, a text to a male escort service that says "send over two clean-shaven studs with ED, I like my men like I like my balls, soft and smooth".   Definitely personal, arguably relevant, definitely embarrassing.  Then Brady can look forward to a delightful fight with the league over whether the "gag order" keeps the text confidential because it is personal and embarrassing or whether its arguable relevance (because Brady will argue that the text refers to the balls beneath his waist, not his footballs, while the league will insist that it refers to footballs) means that it is not subject to the "gag order".  Most sane, intelligent (and "innocent") people would never risk going down this road in the first place and keep their phone away from an investigative body that has no power to compel its production, particularly one as prone to leaks as the NFL.  

[Miss Lonelyhearts 2,789]

I know this to be true because I saw The Hurricane and that's what the judge tells Denzel Washington and the nerdy guy from City Slickers at the final trial.

 

Nobody else is gonna get this joke.

[Klecko73isGod 124,339]

Nobody else is gonna get this joke.

 

You would if you saw The Hurricane...  duh. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts 2,789]

You would if you saw The Hurricane...  duh. 

 

That's not the joke. I don't think.

[Klecko73isGod 124,339]

That's not the joke. I don't think.

 

So now I'm supposed to say "what?" Like I don't get it, right?

[Miss Lonelyhearts 2,789]

So now I'm supposed to say "what?" Like I don't get it, right?

 

There's no reason for you to get it. Hurricane was the prosecutor withholding exculpatory evidence, not the defense failing to produce it, so it's not really the same thing. The joke is that the Rule 16 discovery at issue in Hurricane is commonly known as 'Brady evidence.' I don't know whether that's actually in the movie.

[RutgersJetFan 94,062]

There's no reason for you to get it. Hurricane was the prosecutor withholding exculpatory evidence, not the defense failing to produce it, so it's not really the same thing. The joke is that the Rule 16 discovery at issue in Hurricane is commonly known as 'Brady evidence.' I don't know whether that's actually in the movie.

 

[PFSIKH 101,506]

Your just realizing now Goodell has no idea what he's doing?

 

I gave him the benefit of the doubt for his handling of punishments because he was trying reel in what Tags created. 

 

The same for trying to get ahead, no pun intended, of the concussion issue. 

 

The Rice issue put me over the top.

[PFSIKH 101,506]

Counter argument? Goodall gave Brady a chance to clear his name. He didn't or couldn't. goodell is done with his sh*t unless goodell decides he's tired of the pats players, fans and POS owner whining like b1tches for their cheating QB

 

 So you have no argument?  Got it.

 

Brady and Patriots were pre-judged before any investigation.  It was a no-win situation.

[Jet Nut 16,945]

So you have no argument?  Got it.

 

Brady and Patriots were pre-judged before any investigation.  It was a no-win situation.

Stop already, you sound like a raving idiot. New defense, Brady was pre judged? And he was in a no win situation? LOL, Pats fans are delusional. If you're even slow enough to believe this new, 30th or so line of defense.

how old are you? 14?

[Charlie Brown 9,719]

I think you must have deleted the all-caps from your original post by mistake. Whatever you think of Brady's innocence or guilt, turning over his cellphone wholesale to the league was never a realistic or intelligent option.

I so disagree with this opinion my friend.

If I had a client who could clear his name instanteously by simply providing a non criminal investigation EXCULPATORY evidence I would advise him to do so immediately.

Your client isn't here to set some kind of legal precedent!

No one had to know the full extent of his cooperation.

Think on it Brady can lose millions of dollars in endorsements. To give you an idea someone like Brday can lose 70 million per year in endorsements. Far more then he makes in his yearly salary.

You are saying he risks all that because he wants to protect Sheldon from the Jets from a runaway commissioner's office?

I say nonsense.

Come on man, you know better than that.

And to the lawyers out here as you well know that when a client says it's not about the money, you know it's about the money.

[indygirl4jets 10,321]

Brady and the entire patriots organization are making themselves look like fools. This, on top of everything else they have done, will forever be their legacy.

[jeaniec 174]

Re your "gag order" hypothetical, who exactly is entering the order?  The court that was not overseeing the investigation?   

 

And even if there were such an order, what if the phone has, for example, a text to a male escort service that says "send over two clean-shaven studs with ED, I like my men like I like my balls, soft and smooth".   Definitely personal, arguably relevant, definitely embarrassing.  Then Brady can look forward to a delightful fight with the league over whether the "gag order" keeps the text confidential because it is personal and embarrassing or whether its arguable relevance (because Brady will argue that the text refers to the balls beneath his waist, not his footballs, while the league will insist that it refers to footballs) means that it is not subject to the "gag order".  Most sane, intelligent (and "innocent") people would never risk going down this road in the first place and keep their phone away from an investigative body that has no power to compel its production, particularly one as prone to leaks as the NFL.  

Anyone can get a gag order.  You don't have to be in litigation to obtain one.

 

In  terms of your sample conversation to show why Brady wouldn't turn over his phone.  If something like that were to happen (cofusion about a text),  they would ask Brady to clarify.  

[NYs Stepchild 2,321]

I think you must have deleted the all-caps from your original post by mistake.  Whatever you think of Brady's innocence or guilt, turning over his cellphone wholesale to the league was never a realistic or intelligent option.  

You're right, but he said only if he was innocent. Most certainly turning over his phone would have implicated others, besides tipping off the league to all the other forms of cheating they're involved in.

[NYs Stepchild 2,321]

Brady and the entire patriots organization are making themselves look like fools. This, on top of everything else they have done, will forever be their legacy.

Well for one thing, even criticizing a ref is penalized. This is the end of the Pats getting any benefit of the doubt on questionable penalties. Open season on Brady for sure...idiots. Just come clean, and apologize.

[EM31 9,829]

Well for one thing, even criticizing a ref is penalized. This is the end of the Pats getting any benefit of the doubt on questionable penalties. Open season on Brady for sure...idiots. Just come clean, and apologize.

 

Good point.  The Patriots smear job against the NFL included those "incompetent" and "unethical" referees.  At some point you would think that group might begin to take notice even if the "give the Patriots the benefit of any doubt" mandate from the Commissioner's office were not about to be rescinded (a decade too late).

[Jet Nut 16,945]

Good point.  The Patriots smear job against the NFL included those "incompetent" and "unethical" referees.  At some point you would think that group might begin to take notice even if the "give the Patriots the benefit of any doubt" mandate from the Commissioner's office were not about to be rescinded (a decade too late).

Brady and the Patriots calling anyone "unethical" is kind of the definition of the pot calling the kettle black.

 

Kind of like Kraft crying years ago that the Jets don't play by the rules

[Flushing Roots 1,197]

He should bring Roger Clemens to court with him for counsel and moral support.  And maybe a baseball card of Shoeless Joe Jackson for some divine intervention.

[AFCEastFan 384]

I so disagree with this opinion my friend.

If I had a client who could clear his name instanteously by simply providing a non criminal investigation EXCULPATORY evidence I would advise him to do so immediately.

Your client isn't here to set some kind of legal precedent!

No one had to know the full extent of his cooperation.

Think on it Brady can lose millions of dollars in endorsements. To give you an idea someone like Brday can lose 70 million per year in endorsements. Far more then he makes in his yearly salary.

You are saying he risks all that because he wants to protect Sheldon from the Jets from a runaway commissioner's office?

I say nonsense.

Come on man, you know better than that.

And to the lawyers out here as you well know that when a client says it's not about the money, you know it's about the money.

 

I agree with these points, so I am not sure that there is much we disagree on here.  I say don't turn over your phone; you say do turn over exculpatory evidence.  I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive. 

[Bruce Harper 4,105]

It was fine for Brady to hold onto his phone and not turn it over.  That never would have become a big issue here if he had agreed to turn over his requested  texts regarding the balls -- which he refused to do.  The Patriots PR machine has attempted to equate turning over the phone numbers that he texted and the times that he texted them with the texts themselves.  Only blind Pats homers have bought this argument.  

 

And by the way, I went from a blackberry to a Samsung to an I-phone and all my texts went to each of the new phones.  It seems unfathomable that he could not put his hands on them if he wanted to.  In the absence of subpoena power he was entitled to not turn them over but you can't have it both ways by trying to suggest that you were an open book when you deliberately held back this key evidence.

[bitonti 43,244]

what I still don't understand is if nothing was done illegally and everything was above board, why were the 2 equipment managers suspended by the Patriots?  Suspending innocent people is horrible when it's Brady but it's fine when it's the ball boy? 

Side note I hope that guy loses those last 10 pounds. I know what it's like to struggle with deflation. 

[nyjunc 10,924]

I cannot believe this issue is still such huge news.  the NFL really knows how to bungle PR in the last few years.

[Charlie Brown 9,719]

what I still don't understand is if nothing was done illegally and everything was above board, why were the 2 equipment managers suspended by the Patriots?  Suspending innocent people is horrible when it's Brady but it's fine when it's the ball boy? 

Side note I hope that guy loses those last 10 pounds. I know what it's like to struggle with deflation. 

 

 

That is a wonderful question and I am sure Pats fans will come up with an outstanding response!!! 

 

I will wait to hear it.....  

[Miss Lonelyhearts 2,789]

what I still don't understand is if nothing was done illegally and everything was above board, why were the 2 equipment managers suspended by the Patriots? Suspending innocent people is horrible when it's Brady but it's fine when it's the ball boy?

Side note I hope that guy loses those last 10 pounds. I know what it's like to struggle with deflation.

^certain demographics

[Jet Fan RI 410]

That is a wonderful question and I am sure Pats fans will come up with an outstanding response!!! 

 

I will wait to hear it.....  

 

I can hear it now. Kraft: "We were planning to suspend them anyway. We don't like having employees who need deflation. It's not the Patriot Way."

[NYs Stepchild 2,321]

what I still don't understand is if nothing was done illegally and everything was above board, why were the 2 equipment managers suspended by the Patriots?  Suspending innocent people is horrible when it's Brady but it's fine when it's the ball boy? 

Side note I hope that guy loses those last 10 pounds. I know what it's like to struggle with deflation. 

I'm pretty sure they were fired, probably for turning over their phones which made Brady look bad...I mean set back privacy rights.

[NYs Stepchild 2,321]

I cannot believe this issue is still such huge news.  the NFL really knows how to bungle PR in the last few years.

It's the Pats that have kept this in the news. Why do you think the NFL is so mad? What are they supposed to cave just so it will go away? That would be open season for all teams to hold the league hostage with threats of law suits.

I really think Brady should be suspended until he comes clean and they both apologize to the NFL for questioning their character.

What a couple of idiots. Even if Goodall wanted to make this go away he cannot anymore.