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Pro-Brady Arguments are Plainly Silly and His Prospects in Federal Court are Weak

Bruce Harper

By Bruce Harper
in NY Jets Forum

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PFSIKH

PFSIKH

Posted
Posted

Sure, it was a league edict to prejudge the team, to get the nation as a whole against the poor Pats and that forced them to continue their cheating ways. The fact that the balls were deflated, the fact that any and every QB would know immediately that they were while Brady continues to deniy he knew anything, it's on the league. You don't even deny Brady did it anymore, you just look for reasons to make the league look bad.

 

I do not think it was an edict. 

 

I think some of the Goodell's minions ran witht he ball once they got a sniff of ballgazhi.  In some regards, I think Roger was painted into a corner that was not entirely of his doing. 

 

Once league officials, *cough *cough* Kensil started leaking erroneous information to the press, cue Mort, he was kind past the point of no return.  The Patriots were on the defensive and his office would look bad for leaking all that erroneous information.  So like Brady, regardless of his level of complicity, the cover-up is worse than the crime for Goodell.

 

Goodell looks worse day by day when the transcript show blatant lies and ignoring other relevant facts. 

 

The smart thing to do would be to table the punishment and "sceince the eff out of it" this season.

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JETSfaninNE

JETSfaninNE

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I do not think it was an edict. 

 

I think some of the Goodell's minions ran witht he ball once they got a sniff of ballgazhi.  In some regards, I think Roger was painted into a corner that was not entirely of his doing. 

 

Once league officials, *cough *cough* Kensil started leaking erroneous information to the press, cue Mort, he was kind past the point of no return.  The Patriots were on the defensive and his office would look bad for leaking all that erroneous information.  So like Brady, regardless of his level of complicity, the cover-up is worse than the crime for Goodell.

 

Goodell looks worse day by day when the transcript show blatant lies and ignoring other relevant facts. 

 

The smart thing to do would be to table the punishment and "sceince the eff out of it" this season.

 

I haven't really been keeping up with this but curiously how was Kensil outted as the source of the leak?  I know the radio jockey in NE was trying to get mort on to out it and then when he didn't he dropped kensils name but is there any concrete proof he was the leak?

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Savage69

Savage69

Posted
Posted

They go after any NY player. Kill A-Rod but skip over Poppy. How come the midget Pedroia stopped hitting HRs when they cracked down on 'roids? They called A-Rod a cheater for trying to hit the ball out of a glove. Kraft screamed loudly years ago that the Jets think they're above the rules, then tampered with Jet employee BB. They're a low life group.

But the Jets tampered with the Tuna first did they not??

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PFSIKH

PFSIKH

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Not sure what info you are referencing. The only place I saw the 10.1 psi value is from your quote earlier in this thread. The 10.5 psi value is listed both in the Wells report and the Exponent report and is not in question, That was in fact the lowest Pat measurement as made by the officials.

 

My point is that 10.5 psi, which is a full 2 psi below the minimum pressure permitted by the rules, is not that much different from the erroneous 10.1 psi value. Either value looks pretty much equally bad for the Pats,

 

It actually is.

 

The 10.1 was referenced in the league's letter to the Patriots.  ANd ironically enough was leaked.  Hmmmm.

 

As far as the 10.5, it is in question.  It is part of the measurements for the gauge that makes the Wells report.  The gauge Anderson remembers using, but Wells dismisses because it would under cut his proof had 9 of 11 balls within the ideal gas low range or close.  Of course, Wells relied on Anderson's memory only for certain things.  :)

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PFSIKH

PFSIKH

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I haven't really been keeping up with this but curiously how was Kensil outted as the source of the leak?  I know the radio jockey in NE was trying to get mort on to out it and then when he didn't he dropped kensils name but is there any concrete proof he was the leak?

 

I think they are infering it is him by him telling an equipment manager on the sidelines during the game you are effed.

 

Apparently, he has an axe to grind with Bill because Bill left the Jets and he was left behind only to have his career go in the sh*tter.

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PFSIKH

PFSIKH

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Haha.  I know guys that blame them losing the super bowl on that. ******* delusional Pats fans.

 

He was making Brady throw those picks man!

 

And he tripped that guy om the Patriots KO coverage team that could have tackled Howard.  Think about it.  ;)

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Jet Fan RI

Jet Fan RI

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It actually is.

 

The 10.1 was referenced in the league's letter to the Patriots.  ANd ironically enough was leaked.  Hmmmm.

 

As far as the 10.5, it is in question.  It is part of the measurements for the gauge that makes the Wells report.  The gauge Anderson remembers using, but Wells dismisses because it would under cut his proof had 9 of 11 balls within the ideal gas low range or close.  Of course, Wells relied on Anderson's memory only for certain things.  :)

 

I did not see any ignoring of the 10.5 pressure in the tech report. Do you have a specific quotation where that is stated? Ignoring the low value would actually undercut the case of low pressures. And it would undercut the statistical analysis of the measurements in the tech report, which included that measurement with all the rest of the measurements. 

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PFSIKH

PFSIKH

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I did not see any ignoring of the 10.5 pressure in the tech report. Do you have a specific quotation where that is stated? Ignoring the low value would actually undercut the case of low pressures. And it would undercut the statistical analysis of the measurements in the tech report, which included that measurement with all the rest of the measurements. 

 

From Wells Report, "Although Anderson's best recollection is that he used the Logo Gauge,he said that it is certainly possible that he used the Non-Logo Gauge." - Page 52

 

Then Exponent concludes that the gauges (Logo & Non-Logo) measured consistently during the halftime measurements.  There was no human or other factors that caused the difference.  The Logo gauge measured .3-.45 higher.

 

So after Exponent concluding the gauges worked, Wells report said, "Exponent relied  upon  this  information,  as  well  as  the  fact  that during  the  testing the  Non-Logo  Gauge never  produced  a  reading  higher  than  the  Logo Gauge, to  conclude  that  Walt  Anderson  most likely  used  the  Non-Logo  Gauge  to  inspect  the  game  balls  prior  to  the  game."  What?  Pg. 117

 

The gauges measured consistently so he used the one with that favors the NFL.  

 

Walt's memory was good for recalling the PSI range for both teams.

It was good for recalling that never in 19 years had balls gone missing.

 

However, when he recalls he used the Logo gauge with a "long crooked needle", no no tap the brakes Walt that does not fit our agenda. 

 

If Walt is correct and he used the distinctive Logo gauge, 8 of the 11 balls were in the ideal or above the ideal gas range with another ball slightly below.  Hardly conclusive.

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jgb

jgb

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One minor slip and that is what you are sniping me for?  Way to win the internet.  :sign0098:

 

minor slip is remembering whether your team wore white or blue uniforms not who your QB was.

 

i remember when boomer esiason went down with an achilles tear in week 1 of 1999 season. devastating man.

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Jet Fan RI

Jet Fan RI

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From Wells Report, "Although Anderson's best recollection is that he used the Logo Gauge,he said that it is certainly possible that he used the Non-Logo Gauge." - Page 52

 

Then Exponent concludes that the gauges (Logo & Non-Logo) measured consistently during the halftime measurements.  There was no human or other factors that caused the difference.  The Logo gauge measured .3-.45 higher.

 

So after Exponent concluding the gauges worked, Wells report said, "Exponent relied  upon  this  information,  as  well  as  the  fact  that during  the  testing the  Non-Logo  Gauge never  produced  a  reading  higher  than  the  Logo Gauge, to  conclude  that  Walt  Anderson  most likely  used  the  Non-Logo  Gauge  to  inspect  the  game  balls  prior  to  the  game."  What?  Pg. 117

 

The gauges measured consistently so he used the one with that favors the NFL.  

 

Walt's memory was good for recalling the PSI range for both teams.

It was good for recalling that never in 19 years had balls gone missing.

 

However, when he recalls he used the Logo gauge with a "long crooked needle", no no tap the brakes Walt that does not fit our agenda. 

 

If Walt is correct and he used the distinctive Logo gauge, 8 of the 11 balls were in the ideal or above the ideal gas range with another ball slightly below.  Hardly conclusive.

 

Actually. the tech report considered the effects of using either gauge. The game-simulation experiments demonstrate whichever gauge is considered, the halftime measured pressures of the Pat balls cannot be attributed to natural causes, while the measurements of the Colt balls can.

 

Also. examining the table of measured pressures on p. 3 of the Exponent report, the 10.5 psi measurement by one official came out 10.9 psi by the other official, who was using a different gauge on the same ball. These results are within the known differences between the two gauges, and both results show that ball was very far below the 12.5 psi minimum legal pressure. Since the balls were all put into the legal range by the officials prior to the game, this is clear evidence that something beyond natural causes affected the pressure in that ball.

 

In other words, the particular gauge used in the measurements is a complete red herring. It does not make a significant difference to the conclusion of tampering.

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PFSIKH

PFSIKH

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Actually. the tech report considered the effects of using either gauge. The game-simulation experiments demonstrate whichever gauge is considered, the halftime measured pressures of the Pat balls cannot be attributed to natural causes, while the measurements of the Colt balls can.

 

Also. examining the table of measured pressures on p. 3 of the Exponent report, the 10.5 psi measurement by one official came out 10.9 psi by the other official, who was using a different gauge on the same ball. These results are within the known differences between the two gauges, and both results show that ball was very far below the 12.5 psi minimum legal pressure. Since the balls were all put into the legal range by the officials prior to the game, this is clear evidence that something beyond natural causes affected the pressure in that ball.

 

In other words, the particular gauge used in the measurements is a complete red herring. It does not make a significant difference to the conclusion of tampering.

 

You are missing the forest for the trees.

 

If Anderson's memory is good for recalling what the Patriots and Colts balls were prior to the game and he he recalls using the distinctively different logo gauge, the NFL's case against Brady is more probable than not a steaming pile of $hit as the ideal gas law explains the deflation.

 

As Roger admitted to this weekend.  Wells was not independent.  This means Exponent is not independent. 

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Jet Fan RI

Jet Fan RI

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You are missing the forest for the trees.

 

If Anderson's memory is good for recalling what the Patriots and Colts balls were prior to the game and he he recalls using the distinctively different logo gauge, the NFL's case against Brady is more probable than not a steaming pile of $hit as the ideal gas law explains the deflation.

 

As Roger admitted to this weekend.  Wells was not independent.  This means Exponent is not independent. 

 

You either didn't read, or did not understand, the Exponent report. The effects of both gauges on the results were considered in detail. And in both cases, the conclusion is that the measured deflation at halftime for the Pat balls could not be explained as being the result of natural causes. 

 

The conclusion has nothing to do with anyone's memory.

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Jet Nut

Jet Nut

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You either didn't read, or did not understand, the Exponent report. The effects of both gauges on the results were considered in detail. And in both cases, the conclusion is that the measured deflation at halftime for the Pat balls could not be explained as being the result of natural causes. 

 

The conclusion has nothing the do with anyone's memory.

Thanks, now you'll send him on a tangent trying to find another imaginary scenario where the Pats are wrongfully being persecuted 

 

Hes had somewhere near 85 different reason a detailed investigation is a wrong as saying the world is flat

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Jet Fan RI

Jet Fan RI

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Thanks, now you'll send him on a tangent trying to find another imaginary scenario where the Pats are wrongfully being persecuted 

 

Hes had somewhere near 85 different reason a detailed investigation is a wrong as saying the world is flat

 

Well, I don't think my comments are what cause him to fly off on his tangents. And I just can't allow some garbage comment about the science in the report to simply stand unchallenged. But even if I did, I think we'd all still have to put up with the tangents.

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Jet Nut

Jet Nut

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Well, I don't think my comments are what cause him to fly off on his tangents. And I just can't allow some garbage comment about the science in the report to simply stand unchallenged. But even if I did, I think we'd all still have to put up with the tangents.

Just kidding.  Its fun to watch him come here go on and on with some off the wall defense, give it up completely and go to a new equally stupid defense beat it to death and then move on to another defense, etc, etc.

 

His, Pats fans and the Pats use of failed science is as funny as it gets.  They've even switched their failed science from comment to comment.  

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PFSIKH

PFSIKH

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You either didn't read, or did not understand, the Exponent report. The effects of both gauges on the results were considered in detail. And in both cases, the conclusion is that the measured deflation at halftime for the Pat balls could not be explained as being the result of natural causes. 

 

The conclusion has nothing to do with anyone's memory.

 

Therer is no doubt and I hate math even more now.  :)

 

Exponent's conclusion is flawed.  The 'unatural' difference is flawed because they did not incoporate timing into their numbers.  As pointed out by a few dweebs.

 

The Patriots balls were measured with both gauges right after halftime.  They were wetter and colder when measured.  Then the Colts balls were measured with both gauges after they had been allowed to 'acclimate' and they managed to screw up one of those measurements.

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Jet Fan RI

Jet Fan RI

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Therer is no doubt and I hate math even more now.  :)

 

Exponent's conclusion is flawed.  The 'unatural' difference is flawed because they did not incoporate timing into their numbers.  As pointed out by a few dweebs.

 

The Patriots balls were measured with both gauges right after halftime.  They were wetter and colder when measured.  Then the Colts balls were measured with both gauges after they had been allowed to 'acclimate' and they managed to screw up one of those measurements.

 

Wrong on all counts, See the game day simulation experiments where all the factors you mention were taken into account. The experiments showed the deflation exceeded natural causes. The only place time was not explicitly taken into account was in the ball-to-ball pressure variations. This is a negligible effect since the subtracting of pressures tends to eliminate the minor influences of changes. (Subtraction even eliminates the influence of a bent needle on a pressure gauge.) Even if you don't accept that, the game day simulation tests make the statistical calculations of ball-to-ball pressure differences unnecessary to the case, because those simulations establish the deflation exceeded natural causes. 

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  • 4 months later...
AFCEastFan

AFCEastFan

Posted
Posted

Writer Michael Lopez, a Sudbury MA native and former HS football player & coach, should run stats on how many Boston area football buffs are New England Patriots fans.

(rolleyes) 

Wasn't 2015 supposed to be a big "I told you so" campaign for all the Belichick/Emperor Palpatine theorists?  Where are all the articles they wrote about the Patriots fumble stats this season so that we can compare their objective gospel to the work of this biased hack?

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rex-n-effect

rex-n-effect

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First of all that doesn't disprove that the patriots found a new way to cheat and given their propensity to do so I decline to give them the presumption of innocence.

Second, it doesn't disprove earlier data. The 2015 data is far more in line with the rest of the league, albeit at the top. The prior years' data shows far more disparity between NE and the rest of the league.

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nyjunc

nyjunc

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First of all that doesn't disprove that the patriots found a new way to cheat and given their propensity to do so I decline to give them the presumption of innocence.

Second, it doesn't disprove earlier data. The 2015 data is far more in line with the rest of the league, albeit at the top. The prior years' data shows far more disparity between NE and the rest of the league.

but I was told how NE didn't fumble b/c of the air in the balls, that has clearly been disproved.  Does NE bend rules?  100% no doubt about it but so does every other team try.  I HATE NE w/ a passion but they have earned their dynasty.  it's time to stop whining about them and start beating them.

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ghost_in_pads02

ghost_in_pads02

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Wasn't 2015 supposed to be a big "I told you so" campaign for all the Belichick/Emperor Palpatine theorists?  Where are all the articles they wrote about the Patriots fumble stats this season so that we can compare their objective gospel to the work of this biased hack?

whooo...whooo I got one!?

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/01/05/nfl-new-england-patriots-deflategate-fumbles-tom-brady-bill-belichick

 

 

excerpt from the article.

 

 

Here's a barplot of each offense's 2015 fumble rate. To match a previous author's chart, I'll use plays per fumble, which means that teams fumbling less often will have higher numbers. (Using the NFL's website, I grabbed the relevant offensive team information—fumbles and number of plays—and subtracted non-offensive team fumbles to ensure that fumbles using the ‘K’ balls weren't counted.)

fumbles-chart-2015-season.jpg

That's the Patriots on the far right, leading the league while fumbling only once every 105 plays.

 

 

105 plays.

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