fitz= worst qb maybe ever to start for a jets team

[UnitedWhofans]

why didn't Grogan start any of the playoff games?

 

O'Brien had a better career but not by much.  I think a SB app trumps one real PB season.

Because he was older. Period. 

I believe his Super Bowl appearance is marred by a horrific Super Bowl. You would not say Rex Grossman is better than Ken O'Brien and it was basically the same thing.

[Jet Nut]

sanchez was in 2012, I am saying ken got the same treatment from the fans but it is forgotten.  I hope after many years sanchez gets appreciation like Ken b/c he actually did help us win.

 

Kenny on '09/'10 Jets and we don't win a playoff game.

 

the players are much bigger, stronger, faster, quicker.  ken would be eaten alive in today's game.  he couldn't win w/ more talent for his era than mark had. why would he win in '09/'10?

youre re out of your mind if you think O'Brien played on better or more talented teams.  Love when people forget the Jets that carried a pathetic Sanchez on its back had the top defense and the top running game in the NFL.   And a top OL?  Which season did O'Brian get to say that?  

 

[UnitedWhofans]

I think if O'Brien is on the '09/10 Jets, we win one of those two Super Bowls. OL was great so protecting him from sacks would be good.

[nyjunc]

Because he was older. Period. 

I believe his Super Bowl appearance is marred by a horrific Super Bowl. You would not say Rex Grossman is better than Ken O'Brien and it was basically the same thing.

so then it wasn't his team?  grogan was only 32 in 1985 and from 1981 until 1990 he only started the majority of games for NE 2 times and one of them was the strike shortened 1982 season.

 

he was awful in the SB but that was an all time great team they faced.

 

eason left the game w/ NE trailing 20-3, they lost 46-10 so it got worse w/ Grogan.

Ken was better than eason but I give the overall edge to eason b/c he helped a team reach a SB and ken never even helped a team win a playoff game.

[nyjunc]

I think if O'Brien is on the '09/10 Jets, we win one of those two Super Bowls. OL was great so protecting him from sacks would be good.

absolutely insanity.  the biggest myth about the O'Brien years is about the OL, those OLs were good.  the QB holding on to the ball too long forced many of those sacks PLUS the in the grasp rule at the time.  he couldn't win w/ more talent against lesser competition so how in the world would he have won w/ those '09/'10 teams?  we didn't lose either title game b/c of QB play.

 

 

[Savage69]

 

The only thing Eason beat Kenny at was getting drafted before him and the HOF QB fell to pick 27 in the 83 draft..

[UnitedWhofans]

absolutely insanity.  the biggest myth about the O'Brien years is about the OL, those OLs were good.  the QB holding on to the ball too long forced many of those sacks PLUS the in the grasp rule at the time.  he couldn't win w/ more talent against lesser competition so how in the world would he have won w/ those '09/'10 teams?  we didn't lose either title game b/c of QB play.

 

 

The game with Peyton Manning would have to be won in a shootout, once he figured out what we were doing. Ken O'Brien could win a shootout game, Mark Sanchez could not. I think O'Brien would have kept the pressure on Manning to keep scoring and I think the Jets would have won that game.

Holding onto the ball too long suggests to me that Walker and Toon were not getting open for him to throw the ball too. 

Plus there would probably be more roughing the passer calls against the Colts if O'Brien was getting hit.

[Savage69]

absolutely insanity.  the biggest myth about the O'Brien years is about the OL, those OLs were good.  the QB holding on to the ball too long forced many of those sacks PLUS the in the grasp rule at the time.  he couldn't win w/ more talent against lesser competition so how in the world would he have won w/ those '09/'10 teams?  we didn't lose either title game b/c of QB play.

 

 

Kenny had a slow release and no mobility so Kenny fans blame the O line just like Chad fans blame Brien even though his offense scored O points against Pitt in the playoffs..

[nyjunc]

The game with Peyton Manning would have to be won in a shootout, once he figured out what we were doing. Ken O'Brien could win a shootout game, Mark Sanchez could not. I think O'Brien would have kept the pressure on Manning to keep scoring and I think the Jets would have won that game.

Holding onto the ball too long suggests to me that Walker and Toon were not getting open for him to throw the ball too. 

Plus there would probably be more roughing the passer calls against the Colts if O'Brien was getting hit.

The most pts Ken ever put up in a playoff game was 10.  yeah, he was equipped for a shootout. 

 

In playoff losses peyton has averaged putting up 14 PPG.  Our D blew that game, they had a double digit lead and blew it. 

 

he held on to it always looking for the big play.  he hit many but took way too many sacks b/c of it.

[nyjunc]

Kenny had a slow release and no mobility so Kenny fans blame the O line just like Chad fans blame Brien even though his offense scored O points against Pitt in the playoffs..

I am a Chad fan, whenever that man was relatively healthy he led us to the playoffs and we won playoff games.  He was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff at Pitt that day and the K missed 2 makeable FGs.  Chad didn't have his best game but the K was twice put in position to win the game and failed.

[UnitedWhofans]

I don't care how many he put up in a playoff game. He put up 51 on the Miami Dolphins, a team that the 85 Bears couldn't defeat, despite it being the previous year. 

End of story. I don't care what you say. I believe Ken O'Brien was a good QB, and if he played in this soft era, he had a potential to be EVEN better. 

[Savage69]

I am a Chad fan, whenever that man was relatively healthy he led us to the playoffs and we won playoff games.  He was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff at Pitt that day and the K missed 2 makeable FGs.  Chad didn't have his best game but the K was twice put in position to win the game and failed.

Scoring no points I would have to agree with that If Chads shoulder was hurt QC should have replaced him.. This is a excuse free zone..LOL

[nyjunc]

Scoring no points I would have to agree with that If Chads shoulder was hurt QC should have replaced him.. This is a excuse free zone..LOL

the O scored 3 pts and could have had more.

 

Chad played through it and had the team in position to win. 

[Jet Nut]

Kenny had a slow release and no mobility so Kenny fans blame the O line just like Chad fans blame Brien even though his offense scored O points against Pitt in the playoffs..

has nothing to do with counting sack totals, the 09 OL was a better line. 

[nyjunc]

I don't care how many he put up in a playoff game. He put up 51 on the Miami Dolphins, a team that the 85 Bears couldn't defeat, despite it being the previous year. 

End of story. I don't care what you say. I believe Ken O'Brien was a good QB, and if he played in this soft era, he had a potential to be EVEN better. 

the '85 dolphins made the AFC Championship Game.  the '86 dolphins were 8-8 and beginning a 4 year stretch w/o making the playoffs.  '85 they were 12th in PA, '86 26th(out of 28 teams) and still he led the team to 3 pts against them later in that same season and we lost the division by one game.

 

he'd get killed in this "soft" era.

[Jet Nut]

The most pts Ken ever put up in a playoff game was 10.  yeah, he was equipped for a shootout. 

 

In playoff losses peyton has averaged putting up 14 PPG.  Our D blew that game, they had a double digit lead and blew it. 

 

he held on to it always looking for the big play.  he hit many but took way too many sacks b/c of it.

You didn't watch those Jets teams if you think Kenny was ill equipped to win a shoutout.  Not a chance

[UnitedWhofans]

the '85 dolphins made the AFC Championship Game.  the '86 dolphins were 8-8 and beginning a 4 year stretch w/o making the playoffs.  '85 they were 12th in PA, '86 26th(out of 28 teams) and still he led the team to 3 pts against them later in that same season and we lost the division by one game.

 

he'd get killed in this "soft" era.

Sorry. I disagree. O'Brien would probably notice that PI is called more in this era and would throw deep balls and get PI calls.

[Savage69]

the O scored 3 pts and could have had more.

 

Chad played through it and had the team in position to win. 

The FG kicker is with the ST not the offense plus if QC didn't win 2 of his 3 games the team wouldn't have made the playoffs.. Look I liked Chad it was terrible he got injured so early in his career but much like some Jet QB's in the past he spit the bit in big games..

[nyjunc]

You didn't watch those Jets teams if you think Kenny was ill equipped to win a shoutout.  Not a chance

what part of the most pts he ever led an O to in a playoff game was 10 pts did you not understand? what shootout are you winning scoring 10 pts?

it's awesome he can put up big #s against Miami in the regular season, it's a different animal in postseason. 

[nyjunc]

Sorry. I disagree. 

you are allowed to but imaging those stone feet against faster, stronger defenders of today? Imagine hat JJ watt would do to him?

[nyjunc]

The FG kicker is with the ST not the offense plus if QC didn't win 2 of his 3 games the team wouldn't have made the playoffs.. Look I liked Chad it was terrible he got injured so early in his career but much like some Jet QB's in the past he spit the bit in big games..

so Fgs don't count? if you lead the team in position to kick a FG you don't get credit for it?  I'm confused.

 

Chad won playoff games, he won a div title.  we were competitive in playoff losses.  we lost to better teams, in ken's era we didn't always lose to better teams and he never had us competitive in playoff losses and couldn't win one game in the last 5 of 1986 to get us a div title.  Chad led us to blowout wins over NE(the only non playoff year of the Brady era thanks to that win and the last time NE would lose at home until 3 years later) and GB who needed the win to get homefield advantage throughout the NFC playoffs.

[Jet Nut]

what part of the most pts he ever led an O to in a playoff game was 10 pts did you not understand? what shootout are you winning scoring 10 pts?

it's awesome he can put up big #s against Miami in the regular season, it's a different animal in postseason. 

Where are you getting 10 points?  Because your wrong.  Not that what he did in a couple of games defines his ability to pass downfield or to play and win shootouts, which his career proves he was capable of doing.  

[Savage69]

has nothing to do with counting sack totals, the 09 OL was a better line. 

So you think Kenny's team with the Sack Exchange,Freeman,Hector,Toon,Walker and Shuler didn't have the talent of the 2009 team??

[Jet Nut]

So you think Kenny's team with the Sack Exchange,Freeman,Hector,Toon,Walker and Shuler didn't have the talent of the 2009 team??

no I don't.  They were good but not as good.  Again, led the league in rush offense, stacking the box with Sanchez being useless most games, the leagues number 1 defense, which the SE didn't match.  

[Larz]

 

To best explain, "Science" is like a paint brush with a broad stroke, it covers alot of area. Astrophysics is pretending to be one of the strands that make up the overall scientific paint brush. 

What makes Astrophysics pseudo is that theories are turned into fact through visual composites and formulas left to interpretation, not actual confirmed evidence. Another example is if something is found that contradicts the ideology of the study, then it's thrown out because unfortunately the theory or ideology is more important than the actual discovery. Again, that's not science. 

This is pseudo information (pseudo science) but it doesnt make information in general (science in general) pseudo, it just means that you should question what you learn no matter if the composites are supported by slick talking, doctorate degree holding Ivy leaguers. 

Many people get caught up in the "status & degrees" and are afraid to challenge whats right in front of them because they believe that these people are more brilliant then they are themselves. I've never really had that problem. If a person has a problem or can't handle being ridiculed and/or laughed at then believing everything they're told is probably their best bet. 

 

Anyway, back to Fitzpatrick and the Jets terrible QB situation. 

 

you're not one of those kooky "climate change due to global warming causing polar ice melt which changes oceanic currents" deniers are you ?

 

 

[Savage69]

no I don't.  They were good but not as good.  Again, led the league in rush offense, stacking the box with Sanchez being useless most games, the leagues number 1 defense, which the SE didn't match.  

Silly me I forgot what a big Kenny fan you are..

[Jet Nut]

you are allowed to but imaging those stone feet against faster, stronger defenders of today? Imagine hat JJ watt would do to him?

Can you imagine if he didn't have to deal with late hits, high hits or low hits?  If his WRs could run free like they today?   Yeah, today's passing game is so much harder.  As if the OL isn't bigger, faster and stronger today too. 

Question, how many times have the Jets QBs had to deal with JJ Watts?  I'd rather deal with Watts and today's rules than with Bruce Smith back in the day.  Twice a year.  Not once in a career. 

[Jet Nut]

Silly me I forgot what a big Kenny fan you are..

has nothing to do with being a big Kenny fan.  Has to do with this guy saying Sanchez was better.  BhOr that the 09 Jets weren't as good.  Nothing more.  ? 

[Savage69]

Can you imagine if he didn't have to deal with late hits, high hits or low hits?  If his WRs could run free like they today?   Yeah, today's passing game is so much harder.  As if the OL isn't bigger, faster and stronger today too. 

Question, how many times have the Jets QBs had to deal with JJ Watts?  I'd rather deal with Watts and today's rules than with Bruce Smith back in the day.  Twice a year.  Not once in a career. 

Sanchez used to get killed and the refs looked the other way..

[Jet Nut]

Sanchez used to get killed and the refs looked the other way..

that's just not true.  He didn't get extra abuse or get hit any more than KO. Which was his point.  And he sure as shlt didn't get hit while the refs ignored the hits. 

Along with KO never scoring more than 10 in a Jet layoff game.  

[Jet Nut]

that's just not true.  He didn't get extra abuse or get hit any more than KO.  You can't hit a QB today like you could in the 80'sWhich was his point.  And he sure as shlt didn't get hit while the refs ignored the hits. 

Along with KO never scoring more than 10 in a Jet layoff game.  

[Savage69]

that's just not true.  He didn't get extra abuse or get hit any more than KO. Which was his point.  And he sure as shlt didn't get hit while the refs ignored the hits. 

Along with KO never scoring more than 10 in a Jet layoff game.  

Sanchez took hits that would have got a player thrown out if it was Brady,Peyton,Rogers,Bree's etc..

[Villain The Foe]

 

 

you're not one of those kooky "climate change due to global warming causing polar ice melt which changes oceanic currents" deniers are you ?

 

 

It would be fair to say that before someone calls another person a kook or a genius on the subject of global warming that this someone should first have an understanding of the place that they live...meaning Earth. 

Would that be fair to say? 

[jgb]

Can't wait until the experts change their mind again and say we are actually facing global cooling and need to start polluting more to save the planet 

[Villain The Foe]

 .