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our last gm izadick sure had a plan


kmnj

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It takes three years to evaluate a draft class, so we have at least another couple of years to start threads.

That's basically it.  Jalen Saunders was considered another bad pick, now it looks like he might have an NFL career after all.  Idzik's gone because his drafts were disaster, so when one of them might possibly make it somewhere else it's news.

Getting traded for a conditional pick on cut-down day does not make it look like he might have an NFL career.  It means he was being cut by the Saints.  The Pats also claimed DaVaris Daniels.  The kid showed questionable character and was taken over guys like Bryant and Ellington who actually have the size to play in the NFL.

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he suffered more than an inability to execute.   Idzik was just plain bad at most of the requirements for an NFL GM.   He didn't share a vision with the HC, he was poor evaluator of both talent and character, he couldn't draft, and he mis-handled the most important position in football.  

all this plan and cap nonsense is just that, nonsense.   12 picks, why use 12 when you know they won't make roster?   trade up, trade for picks next year, do anything other than draft scrubs.   Idzik got too much credit for cap management when all of the moves were so obvious that just about any poster on this board could have made them.   cutting holmes and sanchez?   really, we are going to give him credit for that?   

ps.  this is about the longest this board has gone w/o an Idzik thread since he was first  hired.   

1)  Didn't share the vision of the coach?  It was a coach that was forced on him whose visions was and apparently still is horrible.

2) 12 picks?  After years and years with 4 or 5 picks you have to restock the cupboard.  Also you are welcome to tell the likes of Ted Thompson, Ozzie Newsome and a host of other successful gms that having lots of picks each year is dumb.  This team had enough holes that we could have used most of those picks, his drafting was indeed mind numbingly awful though.

3)  The moves were not obvious to the previous regime.  On one hand you say he didn't share a vision of the coach and on the other you say moving old dead would was obvious when Rex loves his old dead wood players.

If Idzik had operated the way most wanted on here last year this team would be FAR worse off with a bunch of mid level players signed to long term deals and Rex Ryan at the helm. 

 

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3)  The moves were not obvious to the previous regime.  On one hand you say he didn't share a vision of the coach and on the other you say moving old dead would was obvious

Dumping Cromartie, Sanchez and Bart Scott when they were dumped was pre-ordained.  It was literally built into their contracts, but people want to praise this guy for doing stuff that EVERYBODY would have done.  I didn't expect them to have a very good roster in 2013, but they should have been competitive last year. 

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2) 12 picks?  After years and years with 4 or 5 picks you have to restock the cupboard.  Also you are welcome to tell the likes of Ted Thompson, Ozzie Newsome and a host of other successful gms that having lots of picks each year is dumb.  This team had enough holes that we could have used most of those picks, his drafting was indeed mind numbingly awful though.

3)  The moves were not obvious to the previous regime.  On one hand you say he didn't share a vision of the coach and on the other you say moving old dead would was obvious when Rex loves his old dead wood players.

Idzik's methodology in the draft was terrible. Both he and Tannenbaum had no clue how to evaluate talent, and each took extreme measures in the draft to overcome that liability. Tannenbaum traded picks away to secure players he was convinced we're can't miss prospects. Idzik stuck with his picks, and tried to improve his chances of finding that diamond in the rough by drafting multiple players at need position (G, WR) with terrible results. Idzik was also rumored to've tried to trade during the draft but, as Lionel Richie pointed out, Idzik was incapable of consummating a trade in a small window of time. I liked Maccagnan's approach this year, which was a more balanced approach. There were complaints about whether or not he got value -or missed on better prospects- with his trade down, but he landed a QB and a guard in the process. If that QB works out in particular, no one's gonna care much about the draft pick trade value chart. 

And the cap cutting moves were obvious to the previous regime. They couldn't be executed in Tannenbaum's last season, but the contracts he put together were designed to be able to get out of them the first year of Idzik. We had many discussions here about the Jets supposed cap hell, and accurately predicted all of his major cap cutting moves. Really, getting out of cap trouble is easy. Getting out of cap trouble and fielding a competitive team is much harder - and something Idzik clearly failed to do. 

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He had a plan and a good one at that.

Get rid of old dead wood.

Try and accumulate extra picks

Do not over pay and over term medium players just to get to .500 (see DRC)

Have a lot of cap room at the ready to be used once the dead wood was gone.

Stand up to Fat mouth Rex when it comes to having a say in who we keep.

His drafts were sheer trash and that is by far the most important thing a GM does so he deserves to get hammered for that.

If some of you guys had your way Rex would still be the coach, tyrod taylor would be our new starter, we would have over paid for DMR and a malcontent like whts his face from washington and we would be looking at a 500 record at best.

 

His plan was excellent.

IF his drafts had been even decent.  But he blew them, back to back.  Horribly

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Idzik's methodology in the draft was terrible. Both he and Tannenbaum had no clue how to evaluate talent, and each took extreme measures in the draft to overcome that liability. Tannenbaum traded picks away to secure players he was convinced we're can't miss prospects. Idzik stuck with his picks, and tried to improve his chances of finding that diamond in the rough by drafting multiple players at need position (G, WR) with terrible results. Idzik was also rumored to've tried to trade during the draft but, as Lionel Richie pointed out, Idzik was incapable of consummating a trade in a small window of time. I liked Maccagnan's approach this year, which was a more balanced approach. There were complaints about whether or not he got value -or missed on better prospects- with his trade down, but he landed a QB and a guard in the process. If that QB works out in particular, no one's gonna care much about the draft pick trade value chart. 

And the cap cutting moves were obvious to the previous regime. They couldn't be executed in Tannenbaum's last season, but the contracts he put together were designed to be able to get out of them the first year of Idzik. We had many discussions here about the Jets supposed cap hell, and accurately predicted all of his major cap cutting moves. Really, getting out of cap trouble is easy. Getting out of cap trouble and fielding a competitive team is much harder - and something Idzik clearly failed to do. 

well reasoned post.  and what we're about to find out, is that as good as an offseason mac had, he can't overcome all those years of cap mismanagement, poor drafting and bad qbs.  assuming they can even squeak by cleveland, i think it will be very interesting to see how they game plan for the colts in the dome, particularly on offense.

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His plan was excellent.

IF his drafts had been even decent.  But he blew them, back to back.  Horribly

with the draft's first round a 50% bust rate, according to polian this morning on espn radio, having gms like tanny and idzik back to back with well below average talent evaluation skills really hurts your chances of drafting well.   while we're all rooting for guys like milliner and pryor to turn around their careers i'm more curious to see the top 3 picks from this year's draft, and see if they can contribute early as mauldin and smith seem to be healing.

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His plan was excellent.

IF his drafts had been even decent.  But he blew them, back to back.  Horribly

His plan was common sense. His inability to execute that common sense plan is what made him a terrible executive. 

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Before him, we had a GM who gave monster contracts to both Sanchez and Holmes.  Maybe cutting them is something to be celebrated?  Or at least not "obvious?"

Overall, I agree with Beerfish and Integrity.  The problem with Idzik was execution, and it wasn't even in free agency.  I still don't take issue with his FA strategy, as it's not like these guys he passed on that people were demanding have been burning up the league.  The problem was that his drafts were abysmal.  The best player could be headed for prison, and outside of that player, we added nothing in 2 years.  Also, the QB position wasn't mishandled, it just didn't work out.  They drafted a guy they liked, they got him in the 2nd round without trading up, and they gave him two seasons.  It's not like any of these guys who people wished were available actually were.  Unfortunate as that may be.

But.. when you take an overly cautious approach to FA whether by plan or not, the draft becomes your only means of talent acquisition. So when your drafts suck, it means you've failed in just about every way imaginable. (he wasn't a scout by training, maybe putting so many eggs in draft basket was never a good idea)

Further, leaving a lot of money on the sidelines resulted in one of the least talented rosters in football (specifically at the most important aspect of the game, passing and defending the pass) and lead directly to him losing his job, so I'm not sure you could argue that was a good plan either. There's a saying that says don't let perfect be the enemy of good, and if his rigid plan was to only find appropriate value per $, and he sat on his hands when he couldn't find it, he did exactly that.

btw.. nice to see you back, How you been?

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His plan was common sense. His inability to execute that common sense plan is what made him a terrible executive. 

holding back millions that could have and should have been spent to field a respectable team is NOT common sense. 

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And the cap cutting moves were obvious to the previous regime. They couldn't be executed in Tannenbaum's last season, but the contracts he put together were designed to be able to get out of them the first year of Idzik. We had many discussions here about the Jets supposed cap hell, and accurately predicted all of his major cap cutting moves. Really, getting out of cap trouble is easy. Getting out of cap trouble and fielding a competitive team is much harder - and something Idzik clearly failed to do. 

Great post overall and I don't understand why people don't get this last bit. It's as true in football as it is corporate america, Circuit City laid off all of it's highest paid employees in a cost cutting move with the idea they would replace them with cheaper alternatives, and they were out of business within a few years.

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But.. when you take an overly cautious approach to FA whether by plan or not, the draft becomes your only means of talent acquisition. So when your drafts suck, it means you've failed in just about every way imaginable. (he wasn't a scout by training, maybe putting so many eggs in draft basket was never a good idea)

Further, leaving a lot of money on the sidelines resulted in one of the least talented rosters in football (specifically at the most important aspect of the game, passing and defending the pass) and lead directly to him losing his job, so I'm not sure you could argue that was a good plan either. There's a saying that says don't let perfect be the enemy of good, and if his rigid plan was to only find appropriate value per $, and he sat on his hands when he couldn't find it, he did exactly that.

btw.. nice to see you back, How you been?

Sure, he definitely put all his eggs in that basket, but I'm not sure that's not a bad idea.  Had some of those picks worked out, perhaps we'd have been bad previously, but going into this year, we'd be young, inexpensive, and talented.  Think about what this team would look like if even a third of those picks worked out.  Yes, it ended in spectacular failure, but the alternative was expensive mediocrity.  So as such, I get what you mean by perfect being the enemy of good, but I don't see it that way in this case.  I think the alternative was to be slightly better for a lot more money.  Also, I think there's some merit to the idea that he didn't want certain guys that badly.  They went aggressively after Decker, signing him quickly and for pretty good money, maybe less than the media predicted, but what do they know?  I think it's wholly possible that a guy like DRC was an interest, but not that high a priority.

I've been well, thanks.  Yourself?  A combination of a lot of changes/busyness in my personal and professional life and feeling very apathetic towards the  league based on the cheating/lack of consequences and the team based on their performance has kept me off the boards.  I'll be back a bit more now, but certainly far less than the old days.

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holding back millions that could have and should have been spent to field a respectable team is NOT common sense. 

He did try to spend money, but outside of Decker -who took less than he was expected to get in free agency to sign with the big market Jets- he couldn't close on a single big free agent. For instance, having no backup plan when he whiffed on Vonte Davis. He talked to plenty of free agents, but no one was willing to sign the bargain contracts he was offering. Getting deals is great, but sometimes you have to pay retail. He was stubbornly against paying market price for any player. Again, the polar opposite of Tannenbaum, who was terrible himself on that opposite pole. 

I'm happy with Maccagnan and Bowles largely because they're not knee-jerk reactions to the previous regime. Especially with head coaches, the Jets have gone hard ass/soft touch with every other hire. They finally seem to've landed two well balanced guys. 

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Great post overall and I don't understand why people don't get this last bit. It's as true in football as it is corporate america, Circuit City laid off all of it's highest paid employees in a cost cutting move with the idea they would replace them with cheaper alternatives, and they were out of business within a few years.

I think people do get it.  And, at the time when people were defending/supporting Idzik, it wasn't clear that the team would not be competitive.  There was reason to believe that Geno would build on his late season improvement.  There was reason to believe the same for Milliner.  There was also reason to believe that with 12 draft picks we'd get a few players.  Then, there was reason to believe that we'd filled two major needs in Pryor and Amaro.  When all of that proved to be false, no one supported Idzik anymore.  But, it's not like any of those ideas were unfathomable, or even that far-fetched.

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I was called an idiot and a fool by the jetsinsider bullies.  IzDICK was a disaster, I knew it when he refused to resign Revis after Revis wanted to come play here.

 

 

If I recall correctly, in your view almost everything the jets do is always a disaster.  That's why you lost credibility with anything specific... because you are always negative, warranted or not.  

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I think people do get it.  And, at the time when people were defending/supporting Idzik, it wasn't clear that the team would not be competitive.  There was reason to believe that Geno would build on his late season improvement.  There was reason to believe the same for Milliner.  There was also reason to believe that with 12 draft picks we'd get a few players.  Then, there was reason to believe that we'd filled two major needs in Pryor and Amaro.  When all of that proved to be false, no one supported Idzik anymore.  But, it's not like any of those ideas were unfathomable, or even that far-fetched.

I think many knew our QB, WR and CB situation were pretty bad heading into last year. Relying on rookies to perform at a high level out of the gate is not a good idea, particularly lower round ones. (Or that Geno was magically going to go from the worst QB in the leage to even replacement level in year 2, with poor Wr's taboot)

And people in this very thread are giving Idzik kudos for cutting cap, it's a common theme here

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I think people do get it.  And, at the time when people were defending/supporting Idzik, it wasn't clear that the team would not be competitive.  There was reason to believe that Geno would build on his late season improvement.  There was reason to believe the same for Milliner.  There was also reason to believe that with 12 draft picks we'd get a few players.  Then, there was reason to believe that we'd filled two major needs in Pryor and Amaro.  When all of that proved to be false, no one supported Idzik anymore.  But, it's not like any of those ideas were unfathomable, or even that far-fetched.

At the time, I was certainly holding out hope for the team's chances. I don't blame anyone for trying to optimistic, as I always try to be - even though I had real problems with another accountant in the GM chair. 

But fans holding onto some optimism, and Idzik being satisfied to try to build a team thru the draft with a ton of picks when he, himself, had absolutely no talent evaluating skills are two very different things. Tannenbaum's method for overcoming his inability to evaluate talent -trading up and winning every free agent bidding war- at least gave the Jets decent starting rosters for a couple years (albeit with zero depth). Idzik trusting himself to draft a team when he had virtually no experience evaluating college talent at all was idiotic. And if he did lean on Rex for help there, that was equally dumb. 

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Sure, he definitely put all his eggs in that basket, but I'm not sure that's not a bad idea.  Had some of those picks worked out, perhaps we'd have been bad previously, but going into this year, we'd be young, inexpensive, and talented.  Think about what this team would look like if even a third of those picks worked out.  Yes, it ended in spectacular failure, but the alternative was expensive mediocrity.  So as such, I get what you mean by perfect being the enemy of good, but I don't see it that way in this case.  I think the alternative was to be slightly better for a lot more money.  Also, I think there's some merit to the idea that he didn't want certain guys that badly.  They went aggressively after Decker, signing him quickly and for pretty good money, maybe less than the media predicted, but what do they know?  I think it's wholly possible that a guy like DRC was an interest, but not that high a priority.

I've been well, thanks.  Yourself?  A combination of a lot of changes/busyness in my personal and professional life and feeling very apathetic towards the  league based on the cheating/lack of consequences and the team based on their performance has kept me off the boards.  I'll be back a bit more now, but certainly far less than the old days.

I'm good, yeah I was just telling my old man how little football matters anymore. Last 2 years is the first years since the 80's that I've actually missed games and not really cared. I still enjoy it obviously, but the Jets winning or losing matter little to me at this point. (would love a SB though, lol, but have been well conditioned to expect failure)

 

Re: the foosball stuff, when you let almost 20% of your cap go unused because you don't want to overpay for someone it's pretty much textbook letting perfect be the enemy of good.. The cool thing about NFL contracts is that they can be structured in such a way that the cap impac tis minimal after a year or two, which is what mac did this year. He spent a ton, but were not looking at cap hell 4 years from now because of it

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The part that bothered me most was the part that did not go along with his "plan"  He signed sh*tty old vets with money he could have used to obtain useful players.  Vick and Johnson were bad ideas from the start.  Bad attitudes and of no value unless you intend to compete.  Harvin at 1-6 or whatever they were was a complete waste of a pick (he love stockpiling picks but burned that one) and $7M that could have been rolled forward (which was the excuse for not spending on 2014) but he can be at least partially absolved for that since he must have just been trying to save his job.

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If I recall correctly, in your view almost everything the jets do is always a disaster.  That's why you lost credibility with anything specific... because you are always negative, warranted or not.  

Amazing that these guys never post admitting that they were wrong 99% of the time.  As if predicting the worst with regards to every move and being right from time to time makes someone a modern day Nostradamus 

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The part that bothered me was the part that did not go along with his "plan"  He signed sh*tty old vets with money he could have used to obtain useful players.  Vick and Johnson were bad ideas from the start.  Bad attitudes and of no value unless you intend to compete.  Harvin at 1-6 or whatever they were was a complete waste of $7M that could have been rolled forward (which was the excuse for not spending on 2014) but he can be at least partially absolved for that since he must have just been trying to save his job.

The reality is that plans almost always go awry and the ones that win are the ones that have contingencies in place or are quickest to react. Except in the NFL, where you just have to find a QB to be successful, lol

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He did try to spend money, but outside of Decker -who took less than he was expected to get in free agency to sign with the big market Jets- he couldn't close on a single big free agent. For instance, having no backup plan when he whiffed on Vonte Davis. He talked to plenty of free agents, but no one was willing to sign the bargain contracts he was offering. Getting deals is great, but sometimes you have to pay retail. He was stubbornly against paying market price for any player. Again, the polar opposite of Tannenbaum, who was terrible himself on that opposite pole. 

I'm happy with Maccagnan and Bowles largely because they're not knee-jerk reactions to the previous regime. Especially with head coaches, the Jets have gone hard ass/soft touch with every other hire. They finally seem to've landed two well balanced guys.

Great job in this post and your other posts in this thread. 

The truth is having a plan that is flexible and workable is different than having an idea of what should be done and dogmatically sticking to it regardless of what is happening around you.  The later isn't a plan but rather a recipe for disaster or getting fired....

And the results speak for themselves!!!!

 

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Amazing that these guys never post admitting that they were wrong 99% of the time.  As if predicting the worst with regards to every move and being right from time to time makes someone a modern day Nostradamus 

I was wrong about a bunch of things.  I never liked Idzik and am in the Rex-apologist camp.  Still think they should not have forced Rex on a new GM.  We all like the current set up so far, but they hired Bowles first and then got a GM who could work with him.  Also may end up a bit sketchy. I tended to give Idzik the benefit of the doubt on certain things, like Dimitri Patterson.  He was the type of guy that had gotten some big contracts and played well in spurts.  Sometimes those guys flourish - obviously a mistake.  I thought that Saunders would at least solidify punt returns and it was horrible.  You assume these guys know more than you, but sometimes they don't.

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I think many knew our QB, WR and CB situation were pretty bad heading into last year. Relying on rookies to perform at a high level out of the gate is not a good idea, particularly lower round ones. (Or that Geno was magically going to go from the worst QB in the leage to even replacement level in year 2, with poor Wr's taboot)

And people in this very thread are giving Idzik kudos for cutting cap, it's a common theme here

We did know all of that.  But, the question is, were there guys we wanted here for more than a year.  Or, were we figuring that it was part 2 of the rebuild?  I was thinking the latter and was okay with a mediocre season if progress was made in the young guys.  Sadly, not even that was the case.

As I said regarding cutting the cap, yes, the moves seemed obvious, but we also gave Sanchez a ridiculous extension.  I do give him credit for cutting the cap AND not re-inflating it with bad contracts on players we didn't want here long term.  That, I do believe he deserves some credit for.

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I was wrong about a bunch of things.  I never liked Idzik and am in the Rex-apologist camp.  Still think they should not have forced Rex on a new GM.  We all like the current set up so far, but they hired Bowles first and then got a GM who could work with him.  Also may end up a bit sketchy. I tended to give Idzik the benefit of the doubt on certain things, like Dimitri Patterson.  He was the type of guy that had gotten some big contracts and played well in spurts.  Sometimes those guys flourish - obviously a mistake.  I thought that Saunders would at least solidify punt returns and it was horrible.  You assume these guys no more than you, but sometimes they don't.

You're not the kind of poster I was talking about.  Talking about the kind of poster who hates everything we do and then boasts when something comes out right. 

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holding back millions that could have and should have been spent to field a respectable team is NOT common sense. 

By losing FA and not signing some, that got him the extra draft picks.   Who all sucked.

He could have signed Cro, helped out Rex a little.  In the end, if he drafted well, this team would really be set up well.  But he didn't he blew a TON of picks. 

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His plan was common sense. His inability to execute that common sense plan is what made him a terrible executive. 

Not really arguing.  But most GM's need common sense.  I don't even have a problem with him not spending a lot last year, the team was going to suck regardless. 

 

End of the day, you know why the Seahawks are a model organization?  They had a few great drafts.  Coming from there, you would have hoped he learned something.  He didn't and he sucked at it.  Plus, he took a job with a HC that was already there.  Hey, I'm not defending him, if he drafted well he'd still be here, but he didn't and it'll be years if ever he gets the GM shot again.

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I'm good, yeah I was just telling my old man how little football matters anymore. Last 2 years is the first years since the 80's that I've actually missed games and not really cared. I still enjoy it obviously, but the Jets winning or losing matter little to me at this point. (would love a SB though, lol, but have been well conditioned to expect failure)

 

Re: the foosball stuff, when you let almost 20% of your cap go unused because you don't want to overpay for someone it's pretty much textbook letting perfect be the enemy of good.. The cool thing about NFL contracts is that they can be structured in such a way that the cap impac tis minimal after a year or two, which is what mac did this year. He spent a ton, but were not looking at cap hell 4 years from now because of it

Likewise.  Missed a lot last year.  This year may very well be the same.

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Likewise.  Missed a lot last year.  This year may very well be the same.

I don't know if it's getting old or the Jets just sucking. Really tired of not having a QB on the roster that inspires any hope of contention

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Not really arguing.  But most GM's need common sense.  I don't even have a problem with him not spending a lot last year, the team was going to suck regardless. 

 

End of the day, you know why the Seahawks are a model organization?  They had a few great drafts.  Coming from there, you would have hoped he learned something.  He didn't and he sucked at it.  Plus, he took a job with a HC that was already there.  Hey, I'm not defending him, if he drafted well he'd still be here, but he didn't and it'll be years if ever he gets the GM shot again.

I kind of think he wanted to have good drafts, don't think he went in and said I'm going in a different way than the Seahawks lets blow the draft.  But he shlt the bed with one of his two drafts and doing that in the year you decide to ignore FA is a death wish

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Leaving $30M on the table with holes everywhere after an 8-8 season and 12 draft picks in your pocket is NEVER a good plan.

It is when the 8-8 year was a sheer and utter abberation that any observation person could tell was a false result.  Won two games because the other team blew it on the last play, almost every win was a squeaker, almost every loss was a blow out.  Team gave up an ungodly number of long scoring plays.  If you have 30 million on the table it;s stupid to spend it if the guys you want are mid tier and want guarantee and term.  Accumulating lots of picks was a good thing after years and years of 4 or 5 picks.  His weakness on not moving at all is well documented, no argument there.

 

The 8-8 team was about a 5 win quality of team.  If Idzick did what you wanted him to do the team would have been 8-8 at best last year, with perhaps more Rex and his gang of lousy assistants and would have spent the wad on guys like DRC.

 

Idzick was slow on his feet and a terrible drafter but all he did the previous year set up the current regime for  success and not having to deal with a grand mess.

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