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Jets among shaky 2-0 teams


BurnleyJet

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They are not going to get this many turnovers every week.  Can they score without them?  It looks like they can, which is why I am hopeful, but recovering fumbles is generally luck and they have had quite a few - Gore spitting the ball up while he was walking into the end zone? 

While I agree with you, I have to also consider that Revis was right there waiting for Gore on the play and could still have made the stop. Not likely when a RB has a head of steam but still possible that we stop them there. We will never know. 

No it's not a turnover, but it is not a guaranteed TD either. And therefore opens up plenty of potential outcomes. 

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While I agree with you, I have to also consider that Revis was right there waiting for Gore on the play and could still have made the stop. Not likely when a RB has a head of steam but still possible that we stop them there. We will never know. 

No it's not a turnover, but it is not a guaranteed TD either. And therefore opens up plenty of potential outcomes. 

Of course it would be a TD...to the "would've, could've, should've" crew. lol. 

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Of course it would be a TD...to the "would've, could've, should've" crew. lol. 

:D   And in anyone's defense there, it more than likely would have, but it wasn't. We had a very good tackler in Revis in position to make the play. Those hypotheticals are difficult to hang your hat on. 

Let's add to the debate that maybe Gore was a bit nervous and apprehensive due to the dominant D line play. Feeling like he HAD to make this one happen etc.  It's all very real and very important albeit unmeasurable. 

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It's not? Explain to me how they're different.

Field position. 

Somebody above pointed out that the Gore-to-Revis fumble was not a foregone scoring conclusion and it wasn't, but if they don't scoop that ball up it is an almost certain 3.  Never mind the luck that Revis was called in the end zone.  Other times you get the ball in less than 3 downs - tiring the defense, resting yours and getting you on the field while the D is still trying to make adjustments.  3 and outs are great and as a steady diet that is what I want, but to act like having all these turnovers is not a big part of our success in 2015 is a bit much and I don't think anybody expects them to continue at this pace. 

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Wow, it was one game. AND a game that Blowhard Rex specifically told Geno to throw to Harvin whether covered or not. None of Geno's results are valid under Rex.

Well I was challenged to post a bad game and he would show me one as bad of Luck. I would like a 3 interception in less than one quarter video of Luck. I am being VERY fair.

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Well I was challenged to post a bad game and he would show me one of as bad of Luck. I would like a 3 interception in less than one quarter video of Luck. I am being VERY fair.

Don't have one of Luck but take a look at Fitz vs Giants last year. While the 3 ints aren't in one quarter they all resemble the "inept" throws that Geno and Sanchez before him have gotten slammed for. Bottom line all QB's have bad games. What's insane is the Geno haters here use Fitz's lack of teams around him to defend his mediocre past , but if we bring up the "stellar" offensive skill players and coaches Geno had to work with its purely just an excuse.

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Don't have one of Luck but take a look at Fitz vs Giants last year. While the 3 ints aren't in one quarter they all resemble the "inept" throws that Geno and Sanchez before him have gotten slammed for. Bottom line all QB's have bad games. What's insane is the Geno haters here use Fitz's lack of teams around him to defend his mediocre past , but if we bring up the "stellar" offensive skill players and coaches Geno had to work with its purely just an excuse.

And some hopeless defenders say Geno did not have "enough time (ie More seasons to simply throw away) and Fitz has only had 10 quarters total with the starters.  Bottom line is, would you start Geno in 2 weeks?

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Dispute? Dude, choose your words. This isnt a dispute, this is a comparison regarding Geno and his lack of Oline protection (and targets) and Luck's lack of protection (with targets). 

Now that this is clear, I will compare. 

Lucks Career against either stout defenses or defenses with top Dlines in the league or complete teams since his rookie season. Now please keep in mind, this is ANDREW LUCK, a guy who is argued to be a top 5 QB compared to arguably the worst starting QB in football. Dont forget that. 

2012

Bears: Colts lose,  Luck throws 1 TD, 3 INT's 51% comp (Bears top 3 defense)

Jets: Colts lose 35-9, Luck throws 0TD's 2INT's 50% comp (Top 5 Dline)

NE: Colts lose, Luck throws 2 TD's, 3INT's 54% comp. (Top tier team)

Det: Colts win, Luck throws 4TD's, 3INT's 44% comp. (27th ranked defense, which would explain the 4TD's)

Hou: Colts lose, Luck throws 2TD's 0INT's 48% Comp (Top 9 defense)

Hou: Colts win, Luck throws 2TD's 0INT's 50% Comp (Top 9 defense)

Results: Luck threw 11TD's 9INT's and has a comp rate of 49%

2013

Stl. Colts lose, Luck throws 1TD, 3INT's 61% comp (top 5 defensive line)

Mia: Colts lose, Luck throws 1TD, 1INT 58% comp (Top 8 defense)

Results: 2TD's 4INT's 59.5%

2014

Bal: Colts win, Luck throws 1TD, 2INT's 65% comp (top 6 defense)

Dal: Colt Lose, Luck throws 0TD's, 2INT's 68% comp, though he completes 15 passes for 109 yards...AWESOME (Top 15 defense)

2015

Buf: Colts lose, Luck throws 2TD's, 2INT's 53% comp (Top 3 front 7)

Jets: Colts lose, Luck throws 1TD, 3INT's  56% comp (#1 defense in the league). 

 

Now go and look at all of those 4 and 5 TD games against teams like Washingtion, Tennessee and Jacksonville. 

The point here is, when Andrew Luck faces the type of defenses that Geno faces multiple times a year (Bills front 7, MIA front 7 & NE's Front 7...6 times a year) you see Andrew Luck look very Geno Smith. Not as bad, I can admit that, he is a better QB. But at the end of the day Luck, like Smith had bad Oline's and in the case of Smith worst targets in the league. 

Now you give Geno Smith a play design that limits pressure on him (look at the consistent pocket Fitz has been the beneficiary of) and a true #1 and #2 WR and then we'll see how Geno's numbers look then. 

 

So, Luck may not have ever thrown 3 INT's in 5 snaps, but he hasnt looked much better given how much "BETTER" he's supposed to be in comparison to Geno when facing top opponents like Geno faces every year in his division. Guarantee you if Geno was a Colt in the AFC south against thats level of competition and actual targets his numbers would be rather "capable", not saying "Andrew Luck", but capable. 

Atleast Geno has the reason of playing in one of the toughest divisions in the league along with the Cheaters of the league. Andrew just has JJ Watt. 

 

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Well I was challenged to post a bad game and he would show me one as bad of Luck. I would like a 3 interception in less than one quarter video of Luck. I am being VERY fair.

Well obviously he is not going to find that. However, while Luck is a good QB he is massively overrated.

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Dispute? Dude, choose your words. This isnt a dispute, this is a comparison regarding Geno and his lack of Oline protection (and targets) and Luck's lack of protection (with targets). 

Now that this is clear, I will compare. 

Lucks Career against either stout defenses or defenses with top Dlines in the league or complete teams since his rookie season. Now please keep in mind, this is ANDREW LUCK, a guy who is argued to be a top 5 QB compared to arguably the worst starting QB in football. Dont forget that. 

2012

Bears: Colts lose,  Luck throws 1 TD, 3 INT's 51% comp (Bears top 3 defense)

Jets: Colts lose 35-9, Luck throws 0TD's 2INT's 50% comp (Top 5 Dline)

NE: Colts lose, Luck throws 2 TD's, 3INT's 54% comp. (Top tier team)

Det: Colts win, Luck throws 4TD's, 3INT's 44% comp. (27th ranked defense, which would explain the 4TD's)

Hou: Colts lose, Luck throws 2TD's 0INT's 48% Comp (Top 9 defense)

Hou: Colts win, Luck throws 2TD's 0INT's 50% Comp (Top 9 defense)

Results: Luck threw 11TD's 9INT's and has a comp rate of 49%

2013

Stl. Colts lose, Luck throws 1TD, 3INT's 61% comp (top 5 defensive line)

Mia: Colts lose, Luck throws 1TD, 1INT 58% comp (Top 8 defense)

Results: 2TD's 4INT's 59.5%

2014

Bal: Colts win, Luck throws 1TD, 2INT's 65% comp (top 6 defense)

Dal: Colt Lose, Luck throws 0TD's, 2INT's 68% comp, though he completes 15 passes for 109 yards...AWESOME (Top 15 defense)

2015

Buf: Colts lose, Luck throws 2TD's, 2INT's 53% comp (Top 3 front 7)

Jets: Colts lose, Luck throws 1TD, 3INT's  56% comp (#1 defense in the league). 

 

Now go and look at all of those 4 and 5 TD games against teams like Washingtion, Tennessee and Jacksonville. 

The point here is, when Andrew Luck faces the type of defenses that Geno faces multiple times a year (Bills front 7, MIA front 7 & NE's Front 7...6 times a year) you see Andrew Luck look very Geno Smith. Not as bad, I can admit that, he is a better QB. But at the end of the day Luck, like Smith had bad Oline's and in the case of Smith worst targets in the league. 

Now you give Geno Smith a play design that limits pressure on him (look at the consistent pocket Fitz has been the beneficiary of) and a true #1 and #2 WR and then we'll see how Geno's numbers look then. 

 

So, Luck may not have ever thrown 3 INT's in 5 snaps, but he hasnt looked much better given how much "BETTER" he is than Geno when facing top opponents like Geno faces every year in his division. Guarantee you if Geno was a Colt in the AFC south against thats level of competition and actual targets his numbers would be rather "capable", not saying "Andrew Luck", but capable. 

Atleast Geno has the reason of playing in one of the toughest divisions in the league along with the Cheaters of the league. Andrew just has JJ Watt. 

 

So my question to you is, Would start Geno Smith when he is ready?

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If he's up to speed after the lay off, yup.  Especially after the good reports in camp, I'd love to see Geno with the new offensive scheme and weapons.

WOW, I could not possibly disagree more. If a coach would make that decision while winning and the season goes to hell, there should be no second year.

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If he's up to speed after the lay off, yup.  Especially after the good reports in camp, I'd love to see Geno with the new offensive scheme and weapons.

I agree in regards to seeing what Geno could do in this scheme and weapons only because he's the much younger QB with potential. However, you dont put him in unless Fitz is messing up. 

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WOW, I could not possibly disagree more. If a coach would make that decision while winning and the season goes to hell, there should be no second year.

Well it's not black and white here.  If Fitz is doing what you hope any good backup can do (but rarely does) by not losing games and making the occasional nice play, but your original starter has the higher upside and is ready to roll, then you go back to your starter.

If Bowles feels that Fitz has performed at a high enough level to supplant Geno as the starter and that making the change would hurt the team, of course you don't make the change.  

I don't know that Fitz has done enough yet to guarantee he's the unquestioned starter.  Could he over the next couple weeks, sure.  Hope he does cause we'd be freakin awesome.  Time will tell.

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Well it's not black and white here.  If Fitz is doing what you hope any good backup can do (but rarely does) by not losing games and making the occasional nice play, but your original starter has the higher upside and is ready to roll, then you go back to your starter.

If Bowles feels that Fitz has performed at a high enough level to supplant Geno as the starter and that making the change would hurt the team, of course you don't make the change.  

I don't know that Fitz has done enough yet to guarantee he's the unquestioned starter.  Could he over the next couple weeks, sure.  Hope he does cause we'd be freakin awesome.  Time will tell.

Though generally you have a point, that point is really only valid when you have an established starting QB, and I dont even have to go top 5 here. You do something like that if your starter is Ryan Tannehill. Your back up comes in, keeps the train on the rails and then you sit him once Tannehill is ready to go. 

This is Geno Smith we're talking about here. And though many of us would love to see what he can do with this group, his prior performance and locker room behavior hasnt really warranted that type of loyalty. 

Also, lets give Fitz alittle more credit here. He hasnt just made the "occasional play". He's completing 64% of his passes, throwing multiple TD's per game to just 1 turnover per. We can also add that he's currently rated as a top 10 QB in all of football by PFF. Now im not the biggest fan of PFF, but fans love to use it when speaking about every other player in the league yet disregard it when its our own. 

Ryan Fitzpatrick is honestly playing the best football at the position so far since.....ever. Sad, but true. Given everything I just said, you simply cant mess with that right now. Let Geno continue to practice and if you want to put a shorter leash on Fitz cool, but you dont sit him. 

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I agree with many here that say this is a good team, but I also agree with many here that say that being 2-0 while beating a 1-1 and 0-2 team doesn't prove you are a good team.  The Jets need to beat the Eagles and IMO Miami; we go 4-0, beat teams that we are supposed to beat and a struggling division foe, that it way more convincing than starting 2-0 against weak or struggling teams.  It is a good start.  The best start you can have.  But until they consistently beat the weak and struggling teams are start beating the better teams, the 2-0 record just means we are pretty good and pretty consistent.  I think it is reasonable to go 4-0, but if we can't they we really aren't a top team.

Not earth shattering reporting, but, hey, they have to make a living too...

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But I see two trouble spots looming: the quarterback position and the running game. Ryan Fitzpatrick is a good backup quarterback who is smart enough to play well on occasion, but I think there's a reason he's on his sixth team. I don't know if he can sustain success over a full season. Lead back Chris Ivory, meanwhile, is a guy who tries hard but isn't very special.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000537084/article/jets-among-shaky-20-teams-texans-among-02-teams-with-hope

this ******* sh*t is hilarious. Always the negative bullsh*t ..now we don't have a running game ? And god for bid Fitz just might have finally found a good fit you know a team that actually protects him when he drops back with 2 very good possession WR's . While there is always the chance things can unravel right now things are going very well and this team is executing a new offense very well. I'm not even sure we have seen Gaileys entire playbook yet.

Is it a bad thing to think we might have fallen into another "Vinny" situation and Fitz just turns out to be that QB in the right place at the right time ? **** these haters for once in the last 4 years I have reason to be optimistic about this entire Football team and Im going to roll with that until proven otherwise.

Go Jets !!

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Though generally you have a point, that point is really only valid when you have an established starting QB, and I dont even have to go top 5 here. You do something like that if your starter is Ryan Tannehill. Your back up comes in, keeps the train on the rails and then you sit him once Tannehill is ready to go. 

This is Geno Smith we're talking about here. And though many of us would love to see what he can do with this group, his prior performance and locker room behavior hasnt really warranted that type of loyalty. 

Also, lets give Fitz alittle more credit here. He hasnt just made the "occasional play". He's completing 64% of his passes, throwing multiple TD's per game to just 1 turnover per. We can also add that he's currently rated as a top 10 QB in all of football by PFF. Now im not the biggest fan of PFF, but fans love to use it when speaking about every other player in the league yet disregard it when its our own. 

Ryan Fitzpatrick is honestly playing the best football at the position so far since.....ever. Sad, but true. Given everything I just said, you simply cant mess with that right now. Let Geno continue to practice and if you want to put a shorter lease on Fitz cool, but you dont sit him. 

I can agree with that.  If Fitz can maintain this current level of play, I won't be screaming to start Geno.  I'll still be wondering if we're limiting ourselves on the potential upside, but easily dealt with as we keep winning.

However I think he (or maybe it's the gameplan) is walking a fine line here.  Some have mentioned the offensive "stall" vs Indi was due to the conservative play calling.  If so, teams confident in their QB don't do that so early in a game.  Or if it's just Fitz failing to perform, eventually that'll add up to a loss that could have been won with a more effective offense.  So even a slight drop-off in his play will open the door for Geno.

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I agree in regards to seeing what Geno could do in this scheme and weapons only because he's the much younger QB with potential. However, you dont put him in unless Fitz is messing up. 

I don't ever want to see Geno behind center again. Ideal situation for me is Fitz gives us a couple of years and Petty Steps in when the time comes. Kind of like the Packers did with Rogers. Plus we don't know what the team really thinks of Petty and we may never know until one day it slaps us in the face for better or worse.

I liked what I saw from him in preseason and in his second game he actually seemed to make large improvements over what we saw early. He's obviously a good all around athlete and the coming years for the Jets are very promising. Geno had 2 years and what bothers me more than anything are his actions in the locker room missing meetings and some dumb choices outside the facility. He is NOT a leader and it seems the team really does not respect him much and that's a very bad situation . I would not be surprised at all if he's sent walking after this season since he's here on the cheap anyhow.

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I can agree with that.  If Fitz can maintain this current level of play, I'd won't be screaming to start Geno.  I'll still be wondering if we're limiting ourselves on the potential upside, but easily dealt with as we keep winning.

However I think he (or maybe it's the gameplan) is walking a fine line here.  Some have mentioned the offensive "stall" vs Indi was due to the conservative play calling.  If so, teams confident in their QB don't do that so early in a game.  Or if it's just Fitz failing to perform, eventually that'll add up to a loss that could have been won with a more effective offense.  So even a slight drop-off in his play will open the door for Geno.

It depends on what you mean by limit or limiting. If by limiting you mean we're winning games 21-10 but we could be winning 31-10 then its a hard decision because one is actually happening and the other is a hypothetical. Could be right, could be wrong. Either way you'll be interrupting winning. 

Do I think Geno Smith could be better? Yes, I wasnt a Fitz fan to begin with. But performance trumps feelings and at the end of the day Fitz has not made me feel at anytime that he cannot get the job done. Just being honest. 

As for the offensive stall, it was just that. The plays werent executed because the Colts defense gets paid too. Remember, it wasnt like Fitz didnt move the ball when Gailey opened up the offense. Gailey decided to implement more of a running game and it didnt work until midway through the 4th quarter. 

And based on what Fitz did during that 4th qtr. TD drive right after the Colts scored, if Gailey/Bowles had confidence issues maybe Fitz showed them that maybe they shouldnt after that drive. 

The stall was in fact that, a stall. No one can say that the ball was in Fitzpatrick's hands and he dropped the ball. When we needed him to make it happen, he made it happen. At the end of the day, thats what we need. 

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And some hopeless defenders say Geno did not have "enough time (ie More seasons to simply throw away) and Fitz has only had 10 quarters total with the starters.  Bottom line is, would you start Geno in 2 weeks?

I would start him after the bye if the Jets lose either this week or against the Phins. If we're 4-0 at that point you need to ride with Fitzy until he falters. 

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