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No one is enshrining Fitz into the Hall of Fame. The "apologists" as you call them, simply believe that Fitz is less awful than Geno. It's that simple. Not sure where the confusion is.

I just cant understand how anybody can look at Fitz and think he is anything more than I a jag-I told you before the season he was awful and has no arm- I was at the game today like almost every game

both coaches liked Geno better and thought he gave us the best shot-Bmarsh moved in with Geno as well. coaches should go back to their original plan before it is too late now that Geno is able to play

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3 minutes ago, slats said:

Not resigning Fitz would've been $12M against the cap better, $5M of it against next year's cap on a team that obviously will need some fresh talent. Bringing Fitz back, especially at that number, was stupid. It was stupid then, and it's proven to be stupid now. 

I could not disagree with you more than I do. Not because I think Fitz is any good, he isn't. BUT:

Bowles clearly wanted Fitz back, he was his hand picked choice at the QB position. Without Fitz back, we would have watched Geno fail for two reasons, one, Geno sucks, and two, Bowles would have been ultra conservative because he does not like Geno as his QB. This would have given Bowles a built in excuse for have an awful year this year, which would be equally awful with Geno right now. We would be hearing how Bowles gets a pass because he did not have his QB, and was strapped with Geno.

We were not doing jack with either QB this year, so that $5 mil against next years cap is the best $5Mil ever spent, because we now know what we have in Bowles, with no excuses. If you can tell me what we would do with that $5 mil that is more important than vetting your HC, I am all ears.

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47 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yes, I was wrong.  I'm under no fantasy about that.

And as I said, the equally rabid Geno supporters have no argument to defend, nor right to be smug, about it:  Because they were just as wrong if not more so.

We had two options, neither worked out.  Time to move on.

LOL. "Yes I was wrong.... but you were more wrong!" :rolleyes:

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47 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yes, I was wrong.  I'm under no fantasy about that.

And as I said, the equally rabid Geno supporters have no argument to defend, nor right to be smug, about it:  Because they were just as wrong if not more so.

We had two options, neither worked out.  Time to move on.

Hmm,

End of story? Because you say so?

One option didn't work out because YOU WERE WRONG AND FITZPATRICK SUCKS.

The other option didn't work out due to injury. And, let's be clear  YOU WERE WRONG ABOUT GENO SMITH too. He doesn't suck. He's not a cancer. He's nothing but a young guy with some maturity issues, that, gasp, might have been better addressed with less rabid, unvarnished HATE shown him.

YOU WERE WRONG AND YOU WERE HATEFULLY WRONG.

that's the rest of the story.

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27 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I could not disagree with you more than I do. Not because I think Fitz is any good, he isn't. BUT:

Bowles clearly wanted Fitz back, he was his hand picked choice at the QB position. Without Fitz back, we would have watched Geno fail for two reasons, one, Geno sucks, and two, Bowles would have been ultra conservative because he does not like Geno as his QB. This would have given Bowles a built in excuse for have an awful year this year, which would be equally awful with Geno right now. We would be hearing how Bowles gets a pass because he did not have his QB, and was strapped with Geno.

We were not doing jack with either QB this year, so that $5 mil against next years cap is the best $5Mil ever spent, because we now know what we have in Bowles, with no excuses. If you can tell me what we would do with that $5 mil that is more important than vetting your HC, I am all ears.

There's no scenario in which starting Geno would've been worse, beginning with the saved $12M.

If Geno won more games, then Geno won more games. Horray!

If Geno won the same number of games, no harm, no foul. 

If Geno lost more games, or sucked worse, they would've been quicker to pull him than Fitzpatrick, and had a better look at Petty and/or Hackenberg on their way to a higher pick, 

Bowles is unlikely to be fired this year, and his leash would be equally as long next year regardless of who his QB was this year. So nothing was gained on that front. 

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4 minutes ago, slats said:

There's no scenario in which starting Geno would've been worse, beginning with the saved $12M.

If Geno won more games, then Geno won more games. Horray!

If Geno won the same number of games, no harm, no foul. 

If Geno lost more games, or sucked worse, they would've been quicker to pull him than Fitzpatrick, and had a better look at Petty and/or Hackenberg on their way to a higher pick, 

Bowles is unlikely to be fired this year, and his leash would be equally as long next year regardless of who his QB was this year. So nothing was gained on that front. 

I disagree, but thats cool, Your a Geno guy, I get it.

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2 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I disagree, but thats cool, Your a Geno guy, I get it.

It's not being a Geno guy, it's going forward and seeing what you have as far as talent.

We know what Fitz is...a well traveled backup and not the future qb of the New York Jets.

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Just now, peebag said:

It's not being a Geno guy, it's going forward and seeing what you have as far as talent.

We know what Fitz is...a well traveled backup and not the future qb of the New York Jets.

We know what Geno is too, and by putting $5M on next years cap, we now know what we have, or don't have as a HC. I think its well worth it.

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I think I am on record as:

Not a fan of Geno.

Unwilling to pay Fitzpatrick more than $8M per.  I would have offered him an extension during the 2015 season for that much. I was not a fan of letting the whole thing drag out and I would have moved on from him.  Probably would have signed Hoyer for 1/$2M.  At least that would have saved us from Dr. Detroit and some others rooting for the team this year.  

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1 hour ago, cant wait said:

LOL. "Yes I was wrong.... but you were more wrong!" :rolleyes:

No, the two sides were both wrong, that's really the point..  

But you'll notice, only one side is smugly blathering all over the forums with faux-fantasy "we were right" sillyness.  And ignoring how horribly bad our Defense, Specials and other folks have been.  And that's our cadre of Geno obsessives.  Bonus points for the ones who also infuse their fantasy with barely veiled cries of supposed racism behind opinions on Geno.

The basis of their "we're right" is a fantasy, that Geno "woulda, coulda, shoulda" been much better a choice, if only (insert 2nd fantasy about why he wasn't starting).

You'll be hard pressed to find a Fitz fan who won't say "yep, he failed, yep he was much worse than I expected/hoped".

Yes, there are reasons (why Geno fans call excuses when it happens to anyone but Geno), but unlike Geno Fans, those reasons do not excuse Fitz and they should not excuse Fitz.  Same way they do not excuse Geno.

We, as a fanbase, have to move on from this foolishness.  Better still if both sides can admit they were wrong, because they were in fact both wrong.

Our future is not Geno, nor Fitz.  

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58 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Saying that you start a guy on the last year of his rookie contract given that you already have 3 total QB's under rookie deals and allowing that player to be evaluated by not paying Fitz that money but instead allocating that money to places of need isnt a contradiction, its you not seeing what im saying. 

At the end of the day Fitz won 2 games this season as a starter and on average won 6 games per season as a Jets QB. Im pretty secure with the things I've said in respect to this conversation. ;)

i think most get the part about geno not getting a real shot.  most say he had nothing to work with under rex and now, he apparently put in all the reps when fitz was holding out, he deserved to start.  frankly i'm okay with that thinking.  players need to be judged on what's going on around them as well as their numbers.  in hindsight the jets probably should've settled on geno to start the season and not signed fitz.  that would've been a fair thing to do.

but if you give the circumstances as an excuse for geno you also need to do the same for fitz.  in spite of fitz's performance this team could have easily been 5-5 or 6-4 at the break.  what would be the opinion then?  last season they were +6 in turnovers.  this season they're -15.  you think all those turnovers are on fitz?  you think they have something to do with their record?

i'm not going to apologize for my support of fitz.  i support any jets qb.  as for this season, it doesn't matter at this point.  fitz was only going to be here this season.  there was no next season unless something extrordinary happened.

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1 hour ago, August said:

agendas were getting exposed left and right this season. It wasn't anything else except for the fact that they disliked him.

Speaking for myself, my dislike for Geno Smith started with his on-field failures.  His off-field shenanigans just reconfirmed what a bad fit he is for the organization.

Once again, one of the foundations of Myheroism is to blend together and thus deflect multiple problems, multiple scapegoats, and multiple conspiracy theories to mask the two glaring truths:  He's not a good quarterback and he's not a good leader and as such he's not an NFL prospect.

SAR I

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1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Speaking for myself, my dislike for Geno Smith started with his on-field failures.  His off-field shenanigans just reconfirmed what a bad fit he is for the organization.

Once again, one of the foundations of Myheroism is to blend together and thus deflect multiple problems, multiple scapegoats, and multiple conspiracy theories to mask the two glaring truths:  He's not a good quarterback and he's not a good leader and as such he's not an NFL prospect.

SAR I

Ryan Fitzpatrick masqueraded as an NFL QB for 12 years with 6 teams he's not a good QB he's not a good leader the Jets will be his last stop on the tour. 

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1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick masqueraded as an NFL QB for 12 years with 6 teams he's not a good QB he's not a good leader the Jets will be his last stop on the tour. 

Are you a Fitz supporter or a Geno supporter, joewilly12 ?

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3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

I supported Geno Smith in my opinion he got a raw deal here.

Do not like Ryan Fitzpatrick never did. 

I tend to agree with you, I think Geno got a raw deal here too. I personally hope if the Jets do try to sign him this offseason, he says FU to them and signs with a different team instead. Just to stick it to the Jets.

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1 hour ago, phill1c said:

YOU WERE WRONG ABOUT GENO SMITH too. He doesn't suck. He's not a cancer. He's nothing but a young guy with some maturity issues, that, gasp, might have been better addressed with less rabid, unvarnished HATE shown him.

YOU WERE WRONG AND YOU WERE HATEFULLY WRONG.

Perfect example of what I've been talking about, a poster who clearly does not live in the real world, one who thinks everyone who didn't favor Geno is a hateful racist, and thinks Geno is a good QB whose issues are the fault of everyone else.  

I'll wager this poster thinks the best thing the Jets could do ow is resign Geno to a big long-term deal, and name him the starter for 2017 too.

Pure distilled ignorance and fantasy.  Best of luck peddling this line of fecal matter on ClevelandFans.com next year, and lecturing them on how racist they are for not getting behind Geno and that they (the Cleveland fans) are why Geno got hurt/sucked.

:rolleyes:

 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

No, the two sides were both wrong, that's really the point..  

But you'll notice, only one side is smugly blathering all over the forums with faux-fantasy "we were right" sillyness.  And ignoring how horribly bad our Defense, Specials and other folks have been.  And that's our cadre of Geno obsessives.

The basis of their "we're right" is a fantasy, that Geno "woulda, coulda, shoulda" been much better a choice, if only (insert 2nd fantasy about why he wasn't starting).

You'll be hard pressed to find a Fitz fan who won't say "yep, he failed, yep he was much worse than I expected/hoped".

Yes, there are reasons (why Geno fans call excuses when it happens to anyone but Geno), but unlike Geno Fans, those reasons do not excuse Fitz and they should not excuse Fitz.  Same way they do not excuse Geno.

We, as a fanbase, have to move on from this foolishness.  Better still if both sides can admit they were wrong, because they were in fact both wrong.

Our future is not Geno, nor Fitz.  

In the end who really cares about being wrong or right about football, unless you've got money on the line it really doesn't matter. Agree it's time to move on and I am looking forward to turning the page from the fitz/geno partisan debate

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7 minutes ago, cant wait said:

In the end who really cares about being wrong or right about football, unless you've got money on the line it really doesn't matter. Agree it's time to move on and I am looking forward to turning the page from the fitz/geno partisan debate

Honestly, this is the biggest downside of message boards for sports. I think most people who post their opinions, do care about being right or wrong, and then it turns into an agenda to prove they were right. Most of my Jets fans friends who don't post on message boards have one agenda, Jets winning. Once most people put themselves out there, they care very much about being right.

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31 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I tend to agree with you, I think Geno got a raw deal here too. I personally hope if the Jets do try to sign him this offseason, he says FU to them and signs with a different team instead. Just to stick it to the Jets.

In this fantasy does he perform well?  Cause if he keeps going like he's been going I doubt anybody will feel like he was sticking it to the man

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Holy hell this is exhausting. It never f'ng stops. There were very few if any true Fitz supporters or apologists, most just recognized he was the best option, because Geno is atrocious, Petty and Hack were not ready, and he had some level of success with the current group. Everyone who recognized that also saw him as nothing more than a one year stop gap. 
I love how the Geno lovers want to claim some sort of victory on this, because they hate Fitz for being the choice over Geno. The reality is Geno sucked, sucks, and will always suck. So this continuous argument is not only f'ng stupid, its boring as hell. Both guys are gone, thankfully.


Amen

Sanity here finally for a change

Thank you and Happy Holidays
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I'm glad the Jets brought back Fitzpatrick because had we gone 1-6 with Geno to start the year, it'll be guaranteed we'd hear about how the Jets made a mistake not bringing Ryan back. We'd hear had we signed Ryan back we would've been 3-3 or 4-2. Now that his supporters got what they initially wanted, and now that they saw their guy stink up the joint, that's one less excuse right there. 
Now to address your post. I find it hilarious and ironic that every reason they used to justify their dislike for Geno was shown by Fitzpatrick this year. 
 
Geno hate excuse 1- I hate Geno because he's a distraction 
Fitzpatrick proceeds to have a long contract dispute in the offseason thus becoming a distraction.
 
Geno hate excuse 2- he's a bad locker room guy
Fitzpatrick proceeds to rip the entire organization after getting benched then says he doesn't care about the future in regards to Petty, even though that's one thing his supporters always said Fitzpatrick was good for. 
 
Geno hate excuse 3- Geno sux!!
Fitzpatrick proceeds to have one of the worst QB seasons in Jets history and they STILL find ways to minimize his bad play or excuse it.
 
agendas were getting exposed left and right this season. It wasn't anything else except for the fact that they disliked him. 
 
 



August is over. It is already December. Fitzpatrick and Geno are both over as Jets too.

Lets Go Bryce and Hack...its your turn NOW
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36 minutes ago, cant wait said:

In the end who really cares about being wrong or right about football

Alot of people here certainly seem to.  Gives us something to blarther about since the product on the field is so uniformly poor and uninspiring.

36 minutes ago, cant wait said:

Agree it's time to move on and I am looking forward to turning the page from the fitz/geno partisan debate

Petty vs. Hack 2017 Thread begins in 3.....2....1......

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29 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

In this fantasy does he perform well?  Cause if he keeps going like he's been going I doubt anybody will feel like he was sticking it to the man

I hope so, it would be hard to stick it to the Jets if he sucks.

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2 hours ago, phill1c said:

Hmm,

End of story? Because you say so?

One option didn't work out because YOU WERE WRONG AND FITZPATRICK SUCKS.

The other option didn't work out due to injury. And, let's be clear  YOU WERE WRONG ABOUT GENO SMITH too. He doesn't suck. He's not a cancer. He's nothing but a young guy with some maturity issues, that, gasp, might have been better addressed with less rabid, unvarnished HATE shown him.

YOU WERE WRONG AND YOU WERE HATEFULLY WRONG.

that's the rest of the story.

Lol

 

I love the deflection though.  If you ever were critical about Fitz that meant you thought Geno was the next Steve Young

 

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3 hours ago, slats said:

Not resigning Fitz would've been $12M against the cap better, $5M of it against next year's cap on a team that obviously will need some fresh talent. Bringing Fitz back, especially at that number, was stupid. It was stupid then, and it's proven to be stupid now. 

The ridiculous continuation of the Geno/Fitz stuff aside...in terms of his cap hit:

Fitz cost his full $12M compensation against next year's cap, not the mere $5M that his line-item suggests. The other $7M may seem like it hits this year, but the only way we had that $7M available this year was to shift $7M of other players' 2016 hits onto 2017/beyond (mostly from Mo, but also from Skrine IIRC).

In effect, all $12M of Fitzpatrick's 2016 money hits after the 2016 season. It wasn't money we were going to spend anyway in '16, or money that would have necessarily gone to waste. Not even close, since all the teams' acquisitions were done by the time Fitz was brought back.

In effect, the upcoming re-signing of Fitzpatrick - Bowles & Maccagnan's strong desire to bring him back - may have been the final deciding factor in making Wilkerson more than a year-to-year player by extending him 12 days earlier. That, and Maccagnan's delusional line in the sand on Mo's trade value, of course.

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2 hours ago, slats said:

There's no scenario in which starting Geno would've been worse, beginning with the saved $12M.

If Geno won more games, then Geno won more games. Horray!

If Geno won the same number of games, no harm, no foul. 

If Geno lost more games, or sucked worse, they would've been quicker to pull him than Fitzpatrick, and had a better look at Petty and/or Hackenberg on their way to a higher pick, 

Bowles is unlikely to be fired this year, and his leash would be equally as long next year regardless of who his QB was this year. So nothing was gained on that front. 

What was gained is what no one seems to remember-  the best chance to get out of the gate to a 3-3 start against the most brutal schedule in team history.

I could have gone either way-  either resign Fitzpatrick or start Petty.  But in the end it boiled down to Fitzpatrick or Smith and that's a no brainer, it was the right decision.

SAR I

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3 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Oh, are we doing this again?

Unreal.

Yes.  Apparently there are still people who think Geno Smith is Russell Wilson and the Jets are idiots for letting a talent like that go to waste.  LOL.

SAR I

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Speaking for myself, my dislike for Geno Smith started with his on-field failures.  His off-field shenanigans just reconfirmed what a bad fit he is for the organization.

Once again, one of the foundations of Myheroism is to blend together and thus deflect multiple problems, multiple scapegoats, and multiple conspiracy theories to mask the two glaring truths:  He's not a good quarterback and he's not a good leader and as such he's not an NFL prospect.

SAR I

Ironic post is ironic. 

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3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

What was gained is what no one seems to remember-  the best chance to get out of the gate to a 3-3 start against the most brutal schedule in team history.

I could have gone either way-  either resign Fitzpatrick or start Petty.  But in the end it boiled down to Fitzpatrick or Smith and that's a no brainer, it was the right decision.

SAR I

No it wasn't on any level. His lack of performance was 100% predictable based on his playing and physical limitations, his proven history against strong teams and the pure reality of teams having a full year of tape to fame plan for him as QB. As an example, they stared undercutting back shoulder throws knowing he could not throw it over the CB. The Jets with Fitz at QB had no chance at 3-3. I said it back when the schedule was first released. we are in this situation because if Fitz and Bowles. The Fitz signing was a horrible horrible move.

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