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Right, because you were so intent on explaining away Genos INTs.  Somehow they always were the QBs fault.  When Fitz does the unthinkable, has pretty much the same 1 pick to 1 INT rate Geno had guess which one is exonerated?

 

already told you I understood Geno was going to have some bumps in the road with Ints and fumbles but there are too many other things wrong with Geno that just added to the problem things that are not easily fixed things he's been doing his whole life that lead to bad mechanics are very hard if not impossible to fix just look at Tim Tebow the guy has been trying for his entire career to fix his horrible delivery and he still cant get it done I would be willing to bet hes put in more work than Geno Smith and has the respect of just about everyone shame he never worked out.

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No one is enshrining Fitz into the Hall of Fame. The "apologists" as you call them, simply believe that Fitz is less awful than Geno. It's that simple. Not sure where the confusion is.

I just cant understand how anybody can look at Fitz and think he is anything more than I a jag-I told you before the season he was awful and has no arm- I was at the game today like almost every game

both coaches liked Geno better and thought he gave us the best shot-Bmarsh moved in with Geno as well. coaches should go back to their original plan before it is too late now that Geno is able to play

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already told you I understood Geno was going to have some bumps in the road with Ints and fumbles but there are too many other things wrong with Geno that just added to the problem things that are not easily fixed things he's been doing his whole life that lead to bad mechanics are very hard if not impossible to fix just look at Tim Tebow the guy has been trying for his entire career to fix his horrible delivery and he still cant get it done I would be willing to bet hes put in more work than Geno Smith and has the respect of just about everyone shame he never worked out.

No, his biggest issue has been turnovers.

Funny how playing clean football makes all the rest of the shlt go away.

If Geno was able to protect the ball, was able to count on having players on offense to go to it would be a different Geno we're talking about.  I have no idea about the so called bad mechanics youre talking about.  No one has issues with his mechanics outside of typical inexperience inconsistencies that creep into every young QB

 

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if you do the homework, i think Fitz is approximately 5-40 against teams with a winning record. 

against teams that ended up w/ winning records:

Fitz:

against .500 or better teams:  3-38

3 wins were against Indy '09 when Indy rested starters week 17, vs. NE '11 and last year vs. Buffalo(all 3 at home)

against .500 or worse teams: 25-11

against .500 teams: 4-9

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against teams that ended up w/ winning records:

Fitz:

against .500 or better teams:  3-38

3 wins were against Indy '09 when Indy rested starters week 17, vs. NE '11 and last year vs. Buffalo(all 3 at home)

against .500 or worse teams: 25-11

against .500 teams: 4-9

 

Seems like pertinent information, doesn't it? Don't tell the rest of the apologist cabinet - i'm sure they'll just try to pin on Geno for being in the stands. 

Edited by Paradis
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against teams that ended up w/ winning records:

Fitz:

against .500 or better teams:  3-38

3 wins were against Indy '09 when Indy rested starters week 17, vs. NE '11 and last year vs. Buffalo(all 3 at home)

against .500 or worse teams: 25-11

against .500 teams: 4-9

Says the guy who says numbers don't matter and that anyone can spin numbers to say anything.  We get it.  Fitz isn't great.  No one has said otherwise.  I can play this game too.  Geno's record is 12-20.  He sucks.

 

Edited by Jetsfan80
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Two of Fitzpatrick's interceptions couldn't really be blamed on him. One was a deflected ball near the line and a tipped pass downfield. The third, though, had all the makings of a forced throw: a long ball for Devin Smith in the end zone came when the Jets were starting to enter desperation mode with a 24-0 deficit in the first half.

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Says the guy who says numbers don't matter and that anyone can spin numbers to say anything.

someone asked about his record(which is really the only # that matters) and I posted it.  sorry you don't like them.  I am sure you were very impressed w/ his completion % yesterday.

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what upside is that PLEASE explain something positive about Geno Smith. He has a good arm and he can run ! So do about 90 percent of the QB's in college that go undrafted.

Perhaps he feels I do not actively dislike that 90%

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No, his biggest issue has been turnovers.

Funny how playing clean football makes all the rest of the shlt go away.

If Geno was able to protect the ball, was able to count on having players on offense to go to it would be a different Geno we're talking about.  I have no idea about the so called bad mechanics youre talking about.  No one has issues with his mechanics outside of typical inexperience inconsistencies that creep into every young QB

 

Geno picks the wrong target frequently.  Her is not understanding where he needs to throw the ball.  This is an issue with the way his brain processes football information.

But even when he decides where he is going with the ball, the ball does not travel to that place.  He is VERY inaccurate. Period.

These are not "fixable" things.

Edited by EM31
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Geno picks the wrong target frequently.  Her is not understanding where he needs to throw the ball.  This is an issue with the way his brain processes football information.

But even when he decides where he is going with the ball, the ball does not travel to that place.  He is VERY inaccurate. Period.

These are not "fixable" things.

How on earth can you even make that extrapolation based on the Jets offense from the past two seasons.

Do you have any confidence MM, Rex , Sanjay Lal, , David Lee were developing any of our offensive skill positions. Do you know what Geno's targets were in the MM WCO offense , because I certainly didn't.

What Geno did, read, saw reacted to in that offense last season is so different to what is in place now. For starters the Gailey spread offense is much more suited to what Geno worked with in college , in addition his weapons this year make last years look like a HS squad. Putting QB's into systems based on their skills is fixable .

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Says the guy who says numbers don't matter and that anyone can spin numbers to say anything.  We get it.  Fitz isn't great.  No one has said otherwise.  I can play this game too.  Geno's record is 12-20.  He sucks.

 

Geno has helped a team win 8 games in a single season, Fitz's best was 6.

12-20 would be inaccurate.  he is 11-18 as a starter, 38% which was higher than fitz coming into this year.

 

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You're beginning to sound like an idiot...

 

As i outlined for you in the other thread, stat-boy, that Fitz is 35-56, with 20 of those wins coming against the worst teams in the league; CLE, OAK, MIA, WSH, KC, DET, and JAX... the others were like TEN, HOU, etc... i think he beat NE once, and ARZ with John Skelton at the helm..

 

Just stop.

Your saviour, St. Geno of Smith, is 2-12 against winning teams.

We aren't exactly hot at QB when a sh*tty 35-56 QB is still better than the next man up.

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This whole discussion is ridiculous.  Fitz is what fitz is.  If he is asked to bring a team back from 24-0 hole he will be exposed.  He is a solid game manager.  Which is good enough for this team.  The team was without their best rb and a very good wr.

When fitz is asked to do too much he is exposed.  Not sure why many of you are surprised by this.  No one thought they were getting Tom Brady when fitz was named the starter. Even guys like luck make a ton of mistakes when he is down and needs to carry the load.  

 

We desperately need Ivoryand decker back 

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I just cant understand how anybody can look at Fitz and think he is anything more than I a jag-I told you before the season he was awful and has no arm- I was at the game today like almost every game the past 35 years and he proved without a doubt he is not a NFL starter if you want to go anywhere-make no mistake Gailey knew this and knows him best that is why Geno was given the job early in camp. All of his previous teams that cut him knew this and now he is just older. Those dink and dunks for no yards were terrible. The missing of an open wr for a sure td that would have won the game(punted instead run back for a td) The turnovers terrible. 

Bmarsh loves geno and will bring the best out of Geno-when the jets got harvin last year and decker was healthy Geno looked decent which is way way better than fitz-I would rather go down fighting and trying to use our weapons then playing ultra conservative with a guy that cant throw a ball over 25 yards

The "fitz guys" also loved our last gm and were glad to see revis and cro leave....

We will not  see the playoffs with Fitz-go to Geno-if he fails start the Petty era go from there

I look at Fitz, and see a competent veteran game manager who can win if given a solid defense and a productive running game.

I do not see him as anything more that an avergae #2-level quality QB, a short-term solution if that.

The problem is I look at Geno Smith, and I see a QB I would not select even if I ran an Arena league football team.  Smith is a poor decision maker who can and does lose even when given a solid rushing game and defense.  His turnover and poor decisions will likely kill us, no matter how well the rest of the team plays.

I do not support Fitz, per se, I simply reject, entirely, a return to the Geno Smith Experiment.  

Petty must not play in 2015, period.  Just no.  He has potential, I will not ruin him by playing him now.

So for me, it's Fitz and his mediocre production and > 1:1 TD to INT ratio, or Smith and his medicore production and <1:1 TD to INT ratio and plentiful ball-handling fumbles.

With that said, if Fitz plays badly again Sunday vs. Miami, I have no doubt Bowles will consider going to Geno after the Bye. 

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Personally, I'd like to give Geno Smith one last shot.

By all accounts, Geno was having a good camp and clearly outplaying Fitzpatrick.  When you put a young, physically talented quarterback in a new system and give him a couple of legitimate weapons, some interesting things can happen.  Will it translate to real games when the red jersey comes off?  Nobody knows, but perhaps he really did improve and took his game to the next level.  There's only one way to find out.

Fitzpatrick is exactly what he's always been: a bottom third quarterback with a weak arm and a tendency to throw too many interceptions.  Despite the two early season wins, he hasn't been making good decisions with the football if you break down his tape.  He's a seasoned vet, and the book is out on him.  Frankly, he's not good enough.  He is and always was nothing more than a backup quarterback.

Roll the dice with Geno.  I'd rather answer some questions for the future than move forward with guaranteed mediocrity in the present.

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why does it always devolve into people accusing other people of being apologists just because they see things differently than others ?  I can't explain all my thoughts during a game in a drive bye post.  The Jets have no QB option.  We are choosing between eating sh*t and drinking piss

there was a lot of blame to go around yesterday, QB included

 

 

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why does it always devolve into people accusing other people of being apologists just because they see things differently than others ?  I can't explain all my thoughts during a game in a drive bye post.  The Jets have no QB option.  We are choosing between eating sh*t and drinking piss

there was a lot of blame to go around yesterday, QB included

 

 

Assuming no infection, at least urine is sterile.  I'll go with that.  Also assume that Geno is the excrement, while Fitz is the "shpritz".

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why does it always devolve into people accusing other people of being apologists just because they see things differently than others ?  I can't explain all my thoughts during a game in a drive bye post.  The Jets have no QB option.  We are choosing between eating sh*t and drinking piss

there was a lot of blame to go around yesterday, QB included

 

 

I wonder if any Pat fans questioned Brady for barely beating the horrid Jets last year?? LOL But since he won I guess not.. There was a lot to blame yesterday plus this team is not strong enough offensively to lose any starters and win.. Unless of course you have a top 5 QB and we don't,, Hell Rogers and the Chargers lost to the Vikings yesterday so maybe even a top QB don't get you wins some games..:(

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The only real mistake the Jets made yesterday was activating Punchy in the first play and awakening the club known as "Jet fans with a death wish" to unleash their demands to run this dumpster fire of a QB onto the field

You are funny... Very funny post :)

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How on earth can you even make that extrapolation based on the Jets offense from the past two seasons.

Do you have any confidence MM, Rex , Sanjay Lal, , David Lee were developing any of our offensive skill positions. Do you know what Geno's targets were in the MM WCO offense , because I certainly didn't.

What Geno did, read, saw reacted to in that offense last season is so different to what is in place now. For starters the Gailey spread offense is much more suited to what Geno worked with in college , in addition his weapons this year make last years look like a HS squad. Putting QB's into systems based on their skills is fixable .

I can tell when a QB is missing his receivers by more than a zip code and I can tell how often he does that.  That is not about decision making (although his is horrible) That is about being able to throw the ball where you are trying to throw it.

Don't even get me started on the topic of making progressions and being able to take what a defense is giving you because nonexistent does not even begin to describe his lack of talent in this respect.

And then there is his personal ball security when he is not throwing to members of the other team...

Yes, he did not have many weapons but a more accurate description is that those receivers did not have an NFL QB.

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Personally, I'd like to give Geno Smith one last shot.

By all accounts, Geno was having a good camp and clearly outplaying Fitzpatrick.  When you put a young, physically talented quarterback in a new system and give him a couple of legitimate weapons, some interesting things can happen.  Will it translate to real games when the red jersey comes off?  Nobody knows, but perhaps he really did improve and took his game to the next level.  There's only one way to find out.

The coaching staff has plenty of opportunities to give Geno a shot and see his work in practice. They obviously either do not care, do not trust that what he does in practice will translate, or he is simply playing like garbage. 

With sixteen games each game has to matter. There are no opportunities to throw away a game giving another QB a whirl unless you are deliberately tanking the season or the season has tanked. If/once we are eliminated from the playoffs then we should roll out Geno or Petty or Kerley or whoever and see what happens. Any changes before that should only occur due to injury/ineligibility or because the coaching staff has made a committed change.

I don't understand people who feel like they are entitled to see certain players on the field during games as though their evaluations determine anything for the team.

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The coaching staff has plenty of opportunities to give Geno a shot and see his work in practice. They obviously either do not care, do not trust that what he does in practice will translate, or he is simply playing like garbage. 

With sixteen games each game has to matter. There are no opportunities to throw away a game giving another QB a whirl unless you are deliberately tanking the season or the season has tanked. If/once we are eliminated from the playoffs then we should roll out Geno or Petty or Kerley or whoever and see what happens. Any changes before that should only occur due to injury/ineligibility or because the coaching staff has made a committed change.

I don't understand people who feel like they are entitled to see certain players on the field during games as though their evaluations determine anything for the team.

Geno was the clear starter before the locker room incident.  It speaks volumes on how the coaching staff felt about the two quarterbacks and who they felt gave them the best shot to win.

I never suggested that I'm entitled to see certain players on the field.  The best quarterback should play.  Before the broken jaw, the coaching staff thought Geno was the better quarterback.  I've seen nothing out of Fitzpatrick that suggests this dynamic would have changed.  He's been mediocre at best, which has been true for basically his entire career.

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Give Fitzpatrick a chance there were two offensive players who contribute a lot out last game in Ivory and Decker. That factored in yesterdays loss. Spotting the other team  24 points early on wasn't a very good start either. atleast they made a valiant effort and almost came all the way back and lost only by 7. 2 of Fitzpatricks ints were tipped balls so he didn't have that bad of a game. Keep the Faith Jets Fans! This team is going to be a wild card contender.

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Give Fitzpatrick a chance there were two offensive players who contribute a lot out last game in Ivory and Decker. That factored in yesterdays loss. Spotting the other team  24 points early on wasn't a very good start either. atleast they made a valiant effort and almost came all the way back and lost only by 7. 2 of Fitzpatricks ints were tipped balls so he didn't have that bad of a game. Keep the Faith Jets Fans! This team is going to be a wild card contender.

both layers played a week ago and despite a +4 TO differential midway through the 4th we led just 10-7. 

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both layers played a week ago and despite a +4 TO differential midway through the 4th we led just 10-7. 

The problem, and we know it's the case, is if Geno Smith played without Ivory and without Decker, most o fthose calling for him would be saying just that...."well, we can't judge Geno because he had no weapons, come on, you know, no decker, his go to guy, no Ivory so no running game, you know, I'll take your thoughts off the air, you know".  It's lieterally the Geno manta "no weapons/can't judge!"

It's one of the worst aspects IMO of fandom, hypocricy.  Hold "their guy" to one standard, and the "other guy who sucks" to another standard.

Everyone knows it's the case, yet almost everyone denies it.

Edited by Warfish
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The problem, and we know it's the case, is if Geno Smith played without Ivory and without Decker, most o fthose calling for him would be saying just that...."well, we can't judge Geno because he had no weapons, come on, you know, no decker, his go to guy, no Ivory so no running game, you know, I'll take your thoughts off the air, you know".  It's lieterally the Geno manta "no weapons/can't judge!"

It's one of the worst aspects IMO of fandom, hypocricy.  Hold "their guy" to one standard, and the "other guy who sucks" to another standard.

Everyone knows it's the case, yet almost everyone denies it.

I just want to win, I don't care who is the QB as long as they get the job done. 

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The problem, and we know it's the case, is if Geno Smith played without Ivory and without Decker, most o fthose calling for him would be saying just that...."well, we can't judge Geno because he had no weapons, come on, you know, no decker, his go to guy, no Ivory so no running game, you know, I'll take your thoughts off the air, you know".  It's lieterally the Geno manta "no weapons/can't judge!"

It's one of the worst aspects IMO of fandom, hypocricy.  Hold "their guy" to one standard, and the "other guy who sucks" to another standard.

Everyone knows it's the case, yet almost everyone denies it.

even without ivory and decker the roster is much better than what geno had last year. I don't get what the whining is about

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