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Is Geno Smith a GOOD DEEP BALL THROWER?


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This needs its own thread, since its become a common theme in all the other threads. Seems to me that the main argument for starting Geno are his PHYSICAL TOOLZ, i.e. a SHTRONG arm that will have DBs

blind #s can tell us anything, how can anyone watching Fitz think he has a better deep ball than geno?

Charts: Who Are The Best Deep Passers In The NFL? 130,125 7 Reuben Fischer-BaumFiled to: NFL11/23/13 11:00am Deep passes are the most exciting play in televised football—the viewing audie

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Geno isnt the back up QB because he lost his job. Yeah, I would agree that most couldnt wait for Fitz to have a bad game. Maybe you're alluding that this is what im doing, this offseason I knew that FItz wouldnt be the answer because he hasnt been the answer for any team (even with a Gailey offense) for 5 prior teams for the past decade. 

If people can give THAT a shot then I dont see why you cant give the benefit of the doubt to a 3rd year QB who's first 2 years was with  poor talent around him along with equally as poor coaching that has had a history of not developing any talent on offense. 

Geno did lose the job. He might be one of the few QBs to ever lose the starting job off the field or at least to have his off-field behavior contribute so much to losing the position. I don't mean the punch; I mean his dumb decisions after and lack of leadership that followed. Think about this: Vick almost lost his entire career over off-field behavior and that guy replaced Geno as the starter. That guy. You might point out that Geno is still recovering but Bowles has never indicated that there will be any question about who is the starter. That says loads about the position.

Geno doesn't deserve to put games at risk because he had poor opportunities the past couple years--which he did. The coaching staff has the opportunity to see Geno in practice. Either they don't care what he is doing or he isn't impressing.

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The guys wanting Geno understand it's a guy in year 3 VS a guy in year 11 with much more physical tools.  If the Jets had sh*t at WR then yes I think Fitz would be the better option, but with the weapons at WR Geno is the way to go, and it probably is pick your lesser of 2 evils, but atleast 1 guy might have the light bulb go on while the other is already burning out.

I understand what you are saying but also for years now we have been pleading for a vet game manager kind of guy rather than a mistake prone young guy.  With any QB but especially for a game manager type you can't be going down 24-0 and have any chance at all.  In any case if and when we make the switch will totally depend on results.  Bet the phins this week and despite his glaring weaknesses Fitz will be the guy for a few more games, if we lose however, or lose and look bad then geno might not be that far off.

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Geno did lose the job. He might be one of the few QBs to ever lose the starting job off the field or at least to have his off-field behavior contribute so much to losing the position. I don't mean the punch; I mean his dumb decisions after and lack of leadership that followed. Think about this: Vick almost lost his entire career over off-field behavior and that guy replaced Geno as the starter. That guy. You might point out that Geno is still recovering but Bowles has never indicated that there will be any question about who is the starter. That says loads about the position.

Geno doesn't deserve to put games at risk because he had poor opportunities the past couple years--which he did. The coaching staff has the opportunity to see Geno in practice. Either they don't care what he is doing or he isn't impressing.

I dont care about this. My point, which you responded to, referred to Geno not lose his starting job based on performance. All this other stuff is besides that point. 

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I dont care about this. My point, which you responded to, referred to Geno not lose his starting job based on performance. All this other stuff is besides that point. 

An idiot off the field rarely translates to a genius on the field. You can draw a line between Geno's stupid off-field behavior and his stupid on-field behavior. Geno's only consistency as a QB is his poor decisionmaking. Plainly Bowles is not seeing enough in practice from Geno to overcome that.

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I understand what you are saying but also for years now we have been pleading for a vet game manager kind of guy rather than a mistake prone young guy.  With any QB but especially for a game manager type you can't be going down 24-0 and have any chance at all.  In any case if and when we make the switch will totally depend on results.  Bet the phins this week and despite his glaring weaknesses Fitz will be the guy for a few more games, if we lose however, or lose and look bad then geno might not be that far off.

Don't put me in the We category all game managers do is drag your franchise to 7-9 to 10-6 seasons and no shot at Super Bowl outside of T Dilfer and B Johnson in the last 20 years.  Yes I agree Fitz should start this coming week, BUT regardless of the outcome it should be Geno's team after the Bye week, find out what you have 3 years in to the kids career, and make a decision going forward for 2016, and beyond.

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Don't put me in the We category all game managers do is drag your franchise to 7-9 to 10-6 seasons and no shot at Super Bowl outside of T Dilfer and B Johnson in the last 20 years.  Yes I agree Fitz should start this coming week, BUT regardless of the outcome it should be Geno's team after the Bye week, find out what you have 3 years in to the kids career, and make a decision going forward for 2016, and beyond.

Well the WE desire would be to have a great viable young QB.  And why the hell should it be genos team after the bye week?  Just when are we going to stop handing these guys the ball when they do not deserve it?  When face with a limited game manager vs a turnover machine who makes bad reads ala Geno and Sanchez before him the game manager ain't all bad.  This team owes Geno Smith nothing at all.

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An idiot off the field rarely translates to a genius on the field. You can draw a line between Geno's stupid off-field behavior and his stupid on-field behavior. Geno's only consistency as a QB is his poor decisionmaking. Plainly Bowles is not seeing enough in practice from Geno to overcome that.

Cam Newton, and Big Ben say Hello!

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Well the WE desire would be to have a great viable young QB.  And why the hell should it be genos team after the bye week?  Just when are we going to stop handing these guys the ball when they do not deserve it?  When face with a limited game manager vs a turnover machine who makes bad reads ala Geno and Sanchez before him the game manager ain't all bad.  This team owes Geno Smith nothing at all.

But the team is OWED better than Fitzpatrick! 

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I find it funny that the Board wants to crucify Geno based on the eye test, but thinks Fitzpatrick is okay and the weapons argument is overrated.  I am not so down on Fitzpatrick as some, but even in his good games his philosophy seemed to be: when in doubt force it in to Marshall.  Geno's main problem seems to be a lack of confidence and when he doesn't know where to go he seems panicky and loses his footwork.  If you let him run through his progression and then force it to Marshall he might look a bunch better.

 

It seems like when Fitzpatrick gets to the end of his progressions, he just chucks the ball to whoever is running deep, no matter how many people are on him.  Which to be honest, isn't the worst thing in the world.  In the same situation, Geno tries to improvise - which often *is* the worst thing in the world...

If Geno could learn one thing from Fitzpatrick, it should be that when your internal clock goes off, throw the ball away / to where only your guy can catch it.

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Well the WE desire would be to have a great viable young QB.  And why the hell should it be genos team after the bye week?  Just when are we going to stop handing these guys the ball when they do not deserve it?  When face with a limited game manager vs a turnover machine who makes bad reads ala Geno and Sanchez before him the game manager ain't all bad.  This team owes Geno Smith nothing at all.

because right now Fitz is a game manager, an 11 vet, who's throwing picks at the same INT to TD as Geno did a year ago without the offensive tools.  And at a higher rate.

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I dont care about this. My point, which you responded to, referred to Geno not lose his starting job based on performance. All this other stuff is besides that point. 

Geno was expected to be the starter and is healthy now.  Why isn't he being given the job back?

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It seems like when Fitzpatrick gets to the end of his progressions, he just chucks the ball to whoever is running deep, no matter how many people are on him.  Which to be honest, isn't the worst thing in the world.  In the same situation, Geno tries to improvise - which often *is* the worst thing in the world...

If Geno could learn one thing from Fitzpatrick, it should be that when your internal clock goes off, throw the ball away / to where only your guy can catch it.

Ok first you say Fitz just chucks it deep to whoever is running a route, then you say he throws it away or where only his guy can catch it. 

Edited by 56mehl56
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An idiot off the field rarely translates to a genius on the field. You can draw a line between Geno's stupid off-field behavior and his stupid on-field behavior. Geno's only consistency as a QB is his poor decisionmaking. Plainly Bowles is not seeing enough in practice from Geno to overcome that.

And Fitzpatrick being a Harvard graduate doesnt translate to being a scholar on the field. What are you talking about really? 

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Geno was expected to be the starter and is healthy now.  Why isn't he being given the job back?

You know the answer to this, but I'll state it anyway. Geno isnt considered a franchise QB, if he was he would be back on the field. This goes for any QB that goes into camp in a QB competition to start. You know this as well as I. This would have been the same scenario if the roles were reversed. 

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The big difference between then and now, is the time Fitz has had this year in the pocket, Geno has never had this much time, the o line has been doing well this year in pass protection. I would bet Geno's accuracy on deep throws would improve with the extra second he would get. 

Im not a Geno guy by the furthest stretch of the imagination, I do think he's better for our offense at this time. Fitz will have to beat a stacked box each weak because of his arm, plain and simple. 

As far as stats and numbers go, they all depend on entire teams playing, way to many moving parts on any play to use as complete individual performance as the original post seems to suggest, gotta look at the whole Forrest not just the tree in front of you. So those stats don't mean sh*t towards this season and team. 

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The big difference between then and now, is the time Fitz has had this year in the pocket, Geno has never had this much time, the o line has been doing well this year in pass protection. I would bet Geno's accuracy on deep throws would improve with the extra second he would get. 

u don't read good

Are the Jets simply not protecting Geno long enough for deep plays to develop? Well actually, that couldn't be further from the truth. Geno Smith has more than 2.6 seconds to throw on 59.8% of his drop-backs, which is the highest rate in the league. However he is only completing 47.6% of his passes when given over 2.6 seconds to throw, good for 24th best out of 27 QB’s who have played in at least 50

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u don't read good

Are the Jets simply not protecting Geno long enough for deep plays to develop? Well actually, that couldn't be further from the truth. Geno Smith has more than 2.6 seconds to throw on 59.8% of his drop-backs, which is the highest rate in the league. However he is only completing 47.6% of his passes when given over 2.6 seconds to throw, good for 24th best out of 27 QB’s who have played in at least 50

if your #1 WR is David Nelson that's not surprising 

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An idiot off the field rarely translates to a genius on the field. You can draw a line between Geno's stupid off-field behavior and his stupid on-field behavior. Geno's only consistency as a QB is his poor decisionmaking. Plainly Bowles is not seeing enough in practice from Geno to overcome that.

Tell that to Ben Rapelisburger. 

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u don't read good

Are the Jets simply not protecting Geno long enough for deep plays to develop? Well actually, that couldn't be further from the truth. Geno Smith has more than 2.6 seconds to throw on 59.8% of his drop-backs, which is the highest rate in the league. However he is only completing 47.6% of his passes when given over 2.6 seconds to throw, good for 24th best out of 27 QB’s who have played in at least 50

this stat only tells you that Geno holds on to the ball longer than usual, not that the offensive line was stout or that WR's are running wide open all day but for some reason Geno is deciding not to throw the ball. 

I would suggest you take the time to wonder why Geno is holding on to the ball so long, then you'll probably come to the realization that none of his wide receivers ever got separation consistently. 

Now, let me make this clear, Geno Smith was not good AT ALL those first two years....but lets tell the WHOLE STORY here. Thats all I've been saying all day long. 

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this stat only tells you that Geno holds on to the ball longer than usual, not that the offensive line was stout or that WR's are running wide open all day but for some reason Geno is deciding not to throw the ball. 

I would suggest you take the time to wonder why Geno is holding on to the ball so long, then you'll probably come to the realization that none of his wide receivers ever got separation consistently. 

Now, let me make this clear, Geno Smith was not good AT ALL those first two years....but lets tell the WHOLE STORY here. Thats all I've been saying all day long. 

We've been through this a lot here.  Good QB's hit WR's even when they're not open.  Sanchez had the same problem of holding onto the ball even though people at the game said there WERE receivers open.  QB's who constantly require perfect circumstances around them are not QB's who can start in this league.

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u don't read good

Are the Jets simply not protecting Geno long enough for deep plays to develop? Well actually, that couldn't be further from the truth. Geno Smith has more than 2.6 seconds to throw on 59.8% of his drop-backs, which is the highest rate in the league. However he is only completing 47.6% of his passes when given over 2.6 seconds to throw, good for 24th best out of 27 QB’s who have played in at least 50

no, I comprehend what I read, what you attached here says this; Geno has had 2.6 seconds to throw on 59.8% of his drop backs, not 2.6 seconds to throw on solely his deep throws, 36 deep passes is a small % of all his passing attempt for the season. 

So end result is the stats are misrepresented for the purpose of this article. Comprehension is key. 

Thanks for just reading though....

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no, I comprehend what I read, what you attached here says this; Geno has had 2.6 seconds to throw on 59.8% of his drop backs, not 2.6 seconds to throw on solely his deep throws, 36 deep passes is a small % of all his passing attempt for the season. 

So end result is the stats are misrepresented for the purpose of this article. Comprehension is key. 

Thanks for just reading though....

The stats aren't misrepresented, and typically QB's don't need tons of time to throw a short pass.  How does what you say above suggest that we "finally" have a good offensive line?

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We've been through this a lot here.  Good QB's hit WR's even when they're not open.  Sanchez had the same problem of holding onto the ball even though people at the game said there WERE receivers open.  QB's who constantly require perfect circumstances around them are not QB's who can start in this league.

No, but quarterbacks like Geno Smith in the first year or two of their development certainly need more perfect game circumstances than a veteran like a Tom Brady (or even a Ryan Fitzpatrick should). Did Geno suck last year? Yep. But anyone saying that his WR corps doesn't make a difference is delusional or doesn't understand football.

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No, but quarterbacks like Geno Smith in the first year or two of their development certainly need more perfect game circumstances than a veteran like a Tom Brady (or even a Ryan Fitzpatrick should). Did Geno suck last year? Yep. But anyone saying that his WR corps doesn't make a difference is delusional or doesn't understand football.

WR's make a difference.  But they don't make a bad QB suddenly look good.  A QB can look terrible AND have few receiving options.  They aren't mutually exclusive possibilities.  We've been through the weapons stuff countless times the last 6 years with both Sanchez AND Geno.  

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We've been through this a lot here.  Good QB's hit WR's even when they're not open.  Sanchez had the same problem of holding onto the ball even though people at the game said there WERE receivers open.  QB's who constantly require perfect circumstances around them are not QB's who can start in this league.

80, those are not good QB's those are great QB's which there arent many of them in the league. In otherwords, QB's need help from WR's getting paid to play the game more often than not in this league. This is not Aaron Rodgers where you can just plug anyone in and it always seem to work. Geno Smith cant do it by himself. 

I cant speak for Sanchez because I no longer remember, but I will give the credit and say that you could have a point here, but Sanchez had better options when he was here so we cannot cut and dry compare like that. He had a better Oline (Faneca, Woody along with a younger D'brick and Mangold) he had Thomas Jones running for 1300 yards he had a Santonio Holmes before he became a total tool and destroyed by that linsfranc injury and a Braylon Edwards. Sanchez also had a top 3 defense in football. 

You know how I know this is true? Because back when Sanchez was the QB what was the popular talk going on around here? Wasnt it "The Jets defense carried Sanchez to the AFCCG"? When has the Jets defense ever carried Geno anywhere? When has Geno ever had a 1300 yard rusher? When has Geno ever had SB winning LG/RT? When has Geno ever had a Braylon Edwards threat? 

Im not saying that Geno must be carried, im saying that there is ALWAYS an excuse. I can understand this talk in the offseason because thats the time to make the change, but we went into the season expecting Geno to be the starter and from what he showed pre Mike Tyston Punch Out, he was on his way to being the starter in the preseason given what he showed during OTA's and TC. 

Because of that I think its enough to warrant a look without all of Jetnation flipping out based on past transgressions and not on what he can do with this particular team. 

 

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The stats aren't misrepresented, and typically QB's don't need tons of time to throw a short pass.  How does what you say above suggest that we "finally" have a good offensive line?

no, I didn't say we now have a good O line, I did say that the line has been doing better in pass protection this year then last.  

In a way the stats are misrepresenting, because the main focus on the article is if Geno was/is a good deep passer, the article sets you up by starting with his deep attempts to completion %, then deflects by putting his numbers up against other qb's, then at the end it uses total % for time in the pocket per attempt, without regard to the % of deep attempts vice short, so it's a misdirection article to fit the authors view point. 

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WR's make a difference.  But they don't make a bad QB suddenly look good.  A QB can look terrible AND have few receiving options.  They aren't mutually exclusive possibilities.  We've been through the weapons stuff countless times the last 6 years with both Sanchez AND Geno.  

WR's don't make a bad QB suddenly look good, but a good WR can coach up a young QB and help them develop into a good QB. For some reason I don't think Clyde Gates and Brandon Marshall have the same impact or insight on a young Geno. By all accounts he was definitely improving; having guys like Decker and Marshall should in theory make him a better QB than guys like David Nelson and Salim Hakim. 

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