FidelioJet Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 where did I do that? Sorry about that...quoted the wrong post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john461167 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Then you have trouble reading. What, in your opinion, does the title of this thread suggest? That Fitzpatrick is playing barely not-bad enough, or that he's playing noticeably above average? What, in your opinion, does a thread titled "fitz apologists", imply? A thread in which you - an obvious Geno fan-boy who tries to hide behind verbosity - seem to have delighted in participating in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Can't we just be happy that at least one metric likes the starting QB of the Jets? 0 metrics have liked our QB's since Week 11 of 2008. Actually it's only been since the last game of the 2014 season. So much for great QB stats meaning someone is even a half-decent QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 LOL Way to sneak the Geno excuses in there in the last paragraph. Your lips are so securely affixed to Geno's sack that you can't see straight. Then again, given the view from down there, I don't blame you for looking cross eyed at the reality of the situation. Bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 What, in your opinion, does a thread titled "fitz apologists", imply? A thread in which you - an obvious Geno fan-boy who tries to hide behind verbosity - seem to have delighted in participating in? Don't think Sperm is a geno fanboy, i think he just doesn't see a big gap between fitz and geno and thinks geno has a higher ceiling. I personally hope Geno never takes the field for jets again (it would mean fitz hurt or jets losing) but Sperm's opinion is reasonable and thought-out whether one agrees or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I had high hopes for Sanchez after 09 and 10 that he would grow and improve. he didn't. for a rookie and 2nd year player i think he played reasonably well. problem is he is still the same guy years later it's hard to keep getting better(though his #s improved from 2010 to 2011 but he wasn't half as good in reality) when you keep losing talent around you and they keep changing OCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 it's hard to keep getting better(though his #s improved from 2010 to 2011 but he wasn't half as good in reality) when you keep losing talent around you and they keep changing OCs. maybe all those things have some truth and i do think the jets would've made playoffs geno's rookie year with sanchez, fact is he is gone and is probably looking at career backup status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Fitzpatrick isn't the reason we're winning Maybe but he's not making terrible mistakes that makes them lose either. He's not throwing dagger pick 6's or dumb fumbles. The ball is coming out quick and he's playing better QB than any Jet since Favre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 maybe all those things have some truth and i do think the jets would've made playoffs geno's rookie year with sanchez, fact is he is gone and is probably looking at career backup status. he will be starting in Philly soon. no matter what he does outside of here I will always appreciate what he did to help those teams get close to SBs. yes I want an actual SB but it sure was fun playing in 2 title games and having a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 he will be starting in Philly soon. no matter what he does outside of here I will always appreciate what he did to help those teams get close to SBs. yes I want an actual SB but it sure was fun playing in 2 title games and having a chance. agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 You just compared Ryan Fitzpatrick to Manning and Brady and you're calling me naive? Having a good defense and pieces around you - doesn't mean you're good enough to win. Bottom line, Jets can not and will not win a SuperBowl with Fitz as their starting QB... That's a statement that can not be stated as fact. Anything can happen in a winner take all game like the Super Bowl. Jets have players on both Offense & Defense that could change any game. Revis! Who's to say he doesn't get a pick 6 in the 4th quarter in a close game? Skrines a baller. Mo, Sheldon, Leo, Coples are all capable of a strip sack fumble recovery. You make it seem like Fitz isn't capable of one really good game? That's BS, he's still a veteran that if given time to throw, a good running game, stout D, they could beat anyone. Now if your saying we get down 0-21 in a Super Bowl, yes, I wouldn't have faith that he could bring us back. But to just flat out exclaim that if Fitz got to a Super Bowl, the Jets would not have a chance is ridiculous! You could have Ivory have the game of his life & punish people like Marshawn Lynch use to, this still is a TEAM GAME in the end. Percentages of wins are higher with a better QB but in One game anything can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Maybe but he's not making terrible mistakes that makes them lose either. He's not throwing dagger pick 6's or dumb fumbles. The ball is coming out quick and he's playing better QB than any Jet since Favre. Favre sucked here and sanchez was much better than fitz has been(non 2012 Sanchez). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Don't think Sperm is a geno fanboy, i think he just doesn't see a big gap between fitz and geno and thinks geno has a higher ceiling. I personally hope Geno never takes the field for jets again (it would mean fitz hurt or jets losing) but Sperm's opinion is reasonable and thought-out whether one agrees or not I am not advocating Smith being the Jets starting QB. I have not advocated Smith being the starting QB over Fitzpatrick. The only possible way Bowles should switch now is if he knows something that the public doesn't about the locker room or with a Fitzpatrick injury, and there's evidence of neither. Fitzpatrick is the starter. Smith is the backup. Independent of anything Smith is and isn't, Fitzpatrick can also be a crappy QB who costs us points and point-differentials against our opponents. Thus far, it has only played a significant part in costing us 1 game in 4. But there were a lot of other reasons that it's only been limited to 1 loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Trent was far better than Fitz, Trent had played in postseason before. he was perfect for that great D in Bal, he limited TOs(something Fitz does not do) and made big plays. he was vital to that run. Fitz is NOT Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning or any other mediocre QB that has won a SB w/ great defense. Dilfer went to the Pro bowl with Tampa too if I recall. and I think I do recall actually or I wouldn't have written it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Dilfer went to the Pro bowl with Tampa too if I recall. and I think I do recall actually or I wouldn't have written it. he did go to the pro bowl but more importantly he helped 2 franchise reach postseason and had he started another game in Seattle that # would be 3. led them to 4 game win streak to end a season and they missed by 1 game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 LOL Way to sneak the Geno excuses in there in the last paragraph. Your lips are so securely affixed to Geno's sack that you can't see straight. Then again, given the view from down there, I don't blame you for looking cross eyed at the reality of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I am not advocating Smith being the Jets starting QB. I have not advocated Smith being the starting QB over Fitzpatrick. The only possible way Bowles should switch now is if he knows something that the public doesn't about the locker room or with a Fitzpatrick injury, and there's evidence of neither. Fitzpatrick is the starter. Smith is the backup. Independent of anything Smith is and isn't, Fitzpatrick can also be a crappy QB who costs us points and point-differentials against our opponents. Thus far, it has only played a significant part in costing us 1 game in 4. But there were a lot of other reasons that it's only been limited to 1 loss. Except for a few on the extreme fringes, i think most people agree. Some think geno is a slightly better option, some think fitz is slightly better but in reality almost all fans are closer in opinion than the vocal minority would have us believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Yes. When a thread topic is touting an "insanely high QBR" then yes, it is tantamount to saying he is playing well. Or do you think he created this thread to illustrate the flaws in the QBR statistic? Again, this has nothing to do with Geno Smith or replacing Fitzpatrick with Smith, no matter how much some people want to make it about him, or take the position that anyone is suggesting Geno Smith is the solution to all our QB problems. A player - particularly one playing badly like Fitzpatrick - can be criticized for poor play even if his backup is also a bad player, and even if his backup is worse. And I know you don't believe for a second that just Smith keeping us from winning. Otherwise we could have kept the same coaching staff and the same roster as last year (or the year before that), but merely replaced Smith with Fitzpatrick, and all would be just as good as it is today in Jets-land. That would be quite a Fitzmagic trick, particularly in light of this being the first winning team he's ever been a part of. Fitzpatrick isn't the reason we're winning any more than Smith was the reason we were even as good as a .500 team when he was an atrocious and unready rookie QB on a team with no receivers, no Revis, etc. Nonsense. With a couple of obvious exceptions, the team won games despite Smith being the QB. And we are mostly winning games (mostly, by one), against struggling and/or vastly inferior teams I might add, despite Fitzpatrick right now. Well, I took the thread title to mean... "oh hey, Fitz's QBR is a lot higher than one would guess reading this site". Do me a favor though, spare me the Sperm meltdown because I offered a different interpretation of intent than you. In principle, I agree with the assertion in your second paragraph... however, when this Fitz/Geno nonsense started it wasn't criticism, it was calls for him to be benched for Geno. If the whole dialogue had been framed the way you're positioning it now, then I don't think there would be this much polarization. I stopped reading the last two paragraphs. I never said we're winning specifically because of Fitz, I did however say he's not giving games away like Geno did. Both are facts. I believe we're winning games because this roster is loaded, and there is good chemistry (Fitz definitely contributes to this), and we're playing good football. I've said all these things over the past weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 His Ds in Indy and combined w/ den have allowed less pts in postseason than the supposed "great" Ne Ds Brady has had. they have lost mostly b/c peyton doesn't play like reg season Peyton in January and the lone SB win the D played out of their minds while Peyton was mostly terrible outside of one half against NE. I'm talking about his prime, in Indy. Those defenses sucked. The entire way they built those teams sucked, they put it all on Peyton, and it proves my point... one player, a QB cannot win a SB. Teams do. You really want to argue this? Maybe we can shift it to "which breakfast cereal is better", to give you a fighting chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Maybe but he's not making terrible mistakes that makes them lose either. He's not throwing dagger pick 6's or dumb fumbles. The ball is coming out quick and he's playing better QB than any Jet since Favre. He has made terrible mistakes that led to a loss (or at a minimum, it helped lead to a loss). That other terrible mistakes - failing to score when TDs are sitting right in front of his face - didn't make them lose because of who we played and when we played them (actually 4 out of 4 were against bad teams, struggling teams, or bad + struggling teams). And because the rest of the team is just that good. A pick-6 is the worst. There is no argument. It does more damage than just the TD, in the form of momentum and team morale. But Fitzpatrick was responsible for a greater point-discrepancy just in this last game than a pick-6 would have meant on the scoreboard. Then again, there's hardly a guarantee someone else in his place would be limited to just one pick-6 either. So there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Trent was far better than Fitz, Trent had played in postseason before. he was perfect for that great D in Bal, he limited TOs(something Fitz does not do) and made big plays. he was vital to that run. Fitz is NOT Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning or any other mediocre QB that has won a SB w/ great defense. Dilfer was the 6th player taken in the 1st rd of the 1994 draft.. Fitz was a 7th rd pick and at least has 130 tds to 107 picks to Dilfers 113-129.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 he did go to the pro bowl but more importantly he helped 2 franchise reach postseason and had he started another game in Seattle that # would be 3. led them to 4 game win streak to end a season and they missed by 1 game. Exactly. Dilfer was no Montana, but his name is thrown around a lot as scrub who happened to win a Super Bowl with a great D which would insinuate anyone can do it. That's not true. I don't think Dilfer's numbers ever hovered in the bottom 3 like our QB's have the past 4-5 years or so. He was even considered a revitalizing offensive presence with Warrick Dunn in Tampa. Fitz, while I see similar potential, has not had the career Dilfer has. Fitz got paid mid season in Buffalo and sh*t the bed the following week and tanked the season. lol But… he does finally has a dominant style RB and WR's that can get open to go along with a potentially great D. Maybe this is the situation Fitz has been masturbating to his whole life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 You just compared Ryan Fitzpatrick to Manning and Brady and you're calling me naive? Having a good defense and pieces around you - doesn't mean you're good enough to win. Bottom line, Jets can not and will not win a SuperBowl with Fitz as their starting QB... Did the comparison not make sense to you? You said Fitz's skillset can't win a SB. I used the two best QBs of our generation to illustrate that QB alone cannot win the SB. You have to have a complete team. Patriots won last year because they paid Revis and that other CB to give Brady a complementary defense. Seattle won the year before because their defense complemented their QB. I was going to say that maybe the Saints SB with Brees is the only one I could think of recently where the QB carried the team to a SB win, but even then the Saints had one of their better defenses that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Fitz puts up good stats: "Throw all numbers out, can't be trusted." Fitz helps the Jets to a 3-1 start: "A good QB like Geno Smith would have us 4-0". This is beyond comical. This is what happens when career below avg-to avg QB's have top talent around them. I remember the comical statement that "WR's cant help bad QB's". sh*t is happening right in front of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Did the comparison not make sense to you? You said Fitz's skillset can't win a SB. I used the two best QBs of our generation to illustrate that QB alone cannot win the SB. You have to have a complete team. Patriots won last year because they paid Revis and that other CB to give Brady a complementary defense. Seattle won the year before because their defense complemented their QB. I was going to say that maybe the Saints SB with Brees is the only one I could think of recently where the QB carried the team to a SB win, but even then the Saints had one of their better defenses that year. True It was the Pats D that iced that Bowl win along with the stupid call not giving Lynch the ball.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Favre sucked here and sanchez was much better than fitz has been(non 2012 Sanchez). you've made this statement before and again I'll respond there's no measurement by which Sanchez is better than Fitz. Not comp % not int, not fumbles. How was Sanchez "much better" ? Number of hot dogs eaten on the bench? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 He has made terrible mistakes that led to a loss (or at a minimum, it helped lead to a loss). the only game the Jets lost this year, Brandon Marshall tried a rugby-style pitch and Darren Sproles returned a punt for a TD. And the team was coming off a huge win on Monday Night football, on short rest. I'm comfortable not blaming Fitz for all that mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 That's a statement that can not be stated as fact. Anything can happen in a winner take all game like the Super Bowl. Jets have players on both Offense & Defense that could change any game. Revis! Who's to say he doesn't get a pick 6 in the 4th quarter in a close game? Skrines a baller. Mo, Sheldon, Leo, Coples are all capable of a strip sack fumble recovery. You make it seem like Fitz isn't capable of one really good game? That's BS, he's still a veteran that if given time to throw, a good running game, stout D, they could beat anyone. Now if your saying we get down 0-21 in a Super Bowl, yes, I wouldn't have faith that he could bring us back. But to just flat out exclaim that if Fitz got to a Super Bowl, the Jets would not have a chance is ridiculous! You could have Ivory have the game of his life & punish people like Marshawn Lynch use to, this still is a TEAM GAME in the end. Percentages of wins are higher with a better QB but in One game anything can happen. He might be capable of getting lucky and having one good game....I'm not one that thinks Fitz is playing poorly, just that this is who is he - he's playing to his level. A very limited skill set. I didn't say - if he got there he couldn't win - but simply he's incapable of winning a Super Bowl. You don't just start in the Super Bowl, you have to get there too. I stand by the statement that Fitz can not and will not win a Super Bowl, regardless of the tools around him. There seems to be a lot of appreciation for getting a wild card birth and winning a playoff game or two around here (I don't begrudge anyone that, I'm not going to tell anyone how they can or should feel) But for me, getting to another AFC championship game and losing is not all that exciting. I want a Super Bowl and if your QB is incapable of doing that - I want to try someone else, even if he ends up being worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Well, I took the thread title to mean... "oh hey, Fitz's QBR is a lot higher than one would guess reading this site". Do me a favor though, spare me the Sperm meltdown because I offered a different interpretation of intent than you. In principle, I agree with the assertion in your second paragraph... however, when this Fitz/Geno nonsense started it wasn't criticism, it was calls for him to be benched for Geno. If the whole dialogue had been framed the way you're positioning it now, then I don't think there would be this much polarization. I stopped reading the last two paragraphs. I never said we're winning specifically because of Fitz, I did however say he's not giving games away like Geno did. Both are facts. I believe we're winning games because this roster is loaded, and there is good chemistry (Fitz definitely contributes to this), and we're playing good football. I've said all these things over the past weeks. Fitzpatrick is a bad QB. Below average. Other QBs are even worse and even more below-average than Fitzpatrick. Other things get inferred by anyone who states this and merely leaves it at that. My criticism of Fitzpatrick - particularly in the game thread which is when I jumped in - was met with the usual childish Geno-lover responses because I had the temerity to not augment such Fitzpatrick criticism with simultaneous and greater criticism of his crappy baby of a backup. There is such personal hatred of Smith - who (with rare exceptions) has been a disaster since drafting him - has resulted in an off-limits critique of Fitzpatrick unless it has such "but Geno is even worse" augmentations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I think Tebow beat Aaron rodgers in qbr also in a game where Tebow did almost nothing. That statistic is retarded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Then you have trouble reading. What, in your opinion, does the title of this thread suggest? That Fitzpatrick is playing barely not-bad enough, or that he's playing noticeably above average? Hahahaha... this is a go-to move for you lately, eh? Make it an argument over what is "suggested" or "implied" or whatever... nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 the only game the Jets lost this year, Brandon Marshall tried a rugby-style pitch and Darren Sproles returned a punt for a TD. And the team was coming off a huge win on Monday Night football, on short rest. I'm comfortable not blaming Fitz for all that mess. I am comfortable for him sharing significant blame in that mess. We were in multiple positions to be there in the end and he blew it on back to back to back late possessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Not only that, but a lot of them were balls where the WR could have made a play on them, or tipped the ball. In other words, Fitz isn't just throwing the ball directly to a defender. He's throwing to our WRs and if it's an INT, more often than not, the defender had to make a good play on it. No gifts. All 3 of Fitz INT's VS Eagles were on 1st, or 2nd down on the Eagles side of the field how is that NOT killing us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 All 3 of Fitz INT's VS Eagles were on 1st, or 2nd down on the Eagles side of the field how is that NOT killing us? Why did you quote him if you weren't going to address the point he made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Why did you quote him if you weren't going to address the point he made? His point was his INT's are not killing us, when they directly killed us in that game, how is that not addressing his point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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