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I'm seeing many similarities between the recent Jets teams and the Dolphins and am wondering if the fact that Tannenbaum is now in Miami is a contributing factor.  I think so.

He started as a consultant with them in 2014.  Since then they've handed out huge contracts to the QB and Suh, have no middle class of players, and now have a situation where there are media leaks all over the place, players going around coaches to management and a cancerous locker room.

Sound familiar?  I think there's something about the way he operates that creates this type of environment.  We laughed at Mangini for wanting high character guys but when you lose your locker room more often than not your team is doomed.

It's incredible to me that professional football organizations would rather retread someone (Tanny, Rex) than go out and identify new talent and give them a shot.

So happy with who we have leading our franchise now that I'm sitting back and watching what's happening with the Bills/Miami...

 

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Tannenbaum was hired in January of this year.  I hope we don't see similarities to his teams as Gm when he was here and what Miami will be.  he did hand out large contracts and for the ONLY time in our HISTORY we had TWO legitimate chances at reaching the SB. 

 

Jet fans bash Tannenbaum, Rex, sanchez, Schottenheimer- how in the world did we ever make 2 title games w/ these guys if they were all so awful?

 

You are happy now(as we all were in 2009) but once Bowles and Mac are gone at some point they will be bashed too.

Edited by nyjunc
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It just now hit me: nyjunc's defenses of literally every person associated with the 2009 and 2010 teams are just an inversion of Homer's "If he's so smart, how come he's dead?" line.

I defend those that have helped our team win.  I don't bash just b/c players/coaches/execs are gone like most fans do.

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I defend those that have helped our team win.  I don't bash just b/c players/coaches/execs are gone like most fans do.

Here is your big problem, you have convinced yourself that people bash all of those' just because they are gone'.  The 1st in the many many many errors you make when discussing former players, coachs and gms.  Perhaps this is why you totally ignore every compelling argument that counters your praising them to the sky and allowing some degree of success to over ride all else.

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Here is your big problem, you have convinced yourself that people bash all of those' just because they are gone'.  The 1st in the many many many errors you make when discussing former players, coachs and gms.  Perhaps this is why you totally ignore every compelling argument that counters your praising them to the sky and allowing some degree of success to over ride all else.

I haven't convinced myself, I know that is why they are bashed.  until a player has been gone for a long time and people forget they bash like those that tell me how good ken O'Brien was when he was booed off the field every week and would be bashed every day if he had the same career in this era.

 

I don't simply praise, I discuss reality.  I understand what Mark sanchez was, I don't claim him to have been great- same for rex and everyone else we discuss but I realize they weren't garbage either which Jet fans treat them like.  I discussed the truth.

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I haven't convinced myself, I know that is why they are bashed.  until a player has been gone for a long time and people forget they bash like those that tell me how good ken O'Brien was when he was booed off the field every week and would be bashed every day if he had the same career in this era.

 

I don't simply praise, I discuss reality.  I understand what Mark sanchez was, I don't claim him to have been great- same for rex and everyone else we discuss but I realize they weren't garbage either which Jet fans treat them like.  I discussed the truth.

It's not reality because you treat 2009-10 as existing within a sacred vacuum. 09-10 was an exciting time that existed because the right group of people came together at the right time and a lot of money was spent to put together a winning roster. Even still, we barely squeaked into the playoffs one of the years. You can't just cut off the legacies of all these guys at the end of the 2010 season.

Sanchez went on to have increasingly worse seasons and is now a backup in PHI. I don't hate Sanchez like many but he doesn't deserve glorification, either.

Rex had a couple good years there but then also has been increasingly worse. Time will tell on Rex in Buffalo where he is in charge and free from the problems he had with us at the end.

Tannenbaum made a string of terrible decisions after 2010. There was no effective plan. Anybody can spend away and put together a team of successful players. Much more difficult to keep success going after that. After he was fired here nobody wanted him anywhere in their organization. Even Idzik got picked up. Time, again, will tell what happens with Miami.

Schottenheimer's last .500 season was 2011. He went on as OC in STL and never broke .500. Now he's not even in the NFL. His post-2010 record does not demonstrate the kind of greatness deserving of your reverence.

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Tannenbaum's big mistakes were on the 2nd contracts he game Sanchez and Holmes and underestimating how difficult it would be to find competent OL.   The team needed a rebuild after 2011 but Tanny went the wrong direction and tried to hold on to what he already had (being 1 yr removed from the AFCCG).   I also think they really believed in Sanchez and figured he was going to improve not regress.   

The one thing I give Tannenbaum credit for was 'going for it'.   He wasn't afraid to make bold moves to make a run at the big prize.   yes, sanchez sucked but at least he made a move up to go and get him.   He got Santonio for a bag of balls and the guy was great b/f his big $$ contract.   Same thing for Favre, Braylon and LT.  

Tannenbaum wasn't afraid to go down swinging which was Idzik's big downfall.   2 runs to the AFC CG was more excitement than we've had in decades as Jets fans and Tannenbaum deserves a lot of the credit for that.   

Edited by LionelRichie
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Tannenbaum took a pretty complete roster that was built with the help of Mangini, and ruined it within 3 years after Mangini left and Rex came.

Tanny basically thinks he's playing Madden, overpaying for big names, drafting guys with good measurables but low football IQ, and completely ignoring the bottom half of the roster.  Lack of depth was a huge problem towards the end of the Tanny era.

He's a good cap guy, but a middle of the road GM at best.  Give me Maccagnan over him any day.

Edited by jetscrazey
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I'm only offering my opinion on what I see happening now with the Dolphins and comparing it to what took place with the Jets when Tanny was here.  The fact is I'm saying it because I feel it's good for us.

There are a lot of similarities whether NYJUNC wants to acknowledge it or not.  Huge contract to QB that hasn't proven a thing (Sanchez/Tannehil).  Big contracts to players with controversial backgrounds (Holmes/Suh).  High priced stars and no middle class leading to no depth (as does his history of trading away picks).  Lots of media leaks and players talking behind coaches backs leading to a cancerous locker room.  That happened under Tanny when he was with the Jets which led to his firing.  It's happening how that he's with Miami.   Am I missing something?

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It's not reality because you treat 2009-10 as existing within a sacred vacuum. 09-10 was an exciting time that existed because the right group of people came together at the right time and a lot of money was spent to put together a winning roster. Even still, we barely squeaked into the playoffs one of the years. You can't just cut off the legacies of all these guys at the end of the 2010 season.

Sanchez went on to have increasingly worse seasons and is now a backup in PHI. I don't hate Sanchez like many but he doesn't deserve glorification, either.

Rex had a couple good years there but then also has been increasingly worse. Time will tell on Rex in Buffalo where he is in charge and free from the problems he had with us at the end.

Tannenbaum made a string of terrible decisions after 2010. There was no effective plan. Anybody can spend away and put together a team of successful players. Much more difficult to keep success going after that. After he was fired here nobody wanted him anywhere in their organization. Even Idzik got picked up. Time, again, will tell what happens with Miami.

Schottenheimer's last .500 season was 2011. He went on as OC in STL and never broke .500. Now he's not even in the NFL. His post-2010 record does not demonstrate the kind of greatness deserving of your reverence.

post 2010 we started taking away talent from him to work with.  3 of his top 5 weapons to enter 2011 were out of football in 2012.  In 2012 Chaz Schilens, Clyde Gates and Stephen hill were his main weapons.

 

In philly last year he was very good, they averaged almost 30PPG w/ him as QB.  think they would like that production now?

 

No one is saying mark was great, tannebaum great,etc...  mistakes were made but to treat mark like Bubby Brister and Rex & tannebaum like Kotite and Dick Steinberg isn't fair.

 

 

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Tannenbaum made some home run draft picks as our GM. Though Mangini may have had some influence on those

Picking Brick and Mangold in 2006 were good picks, but again how much did Mangini have to do with it?

The Revis pick was all Bradway.  Bradway basically put his reputation on the line to trade up for him.  David Harris the only other pick of note.

After 2007 the drafts were horrible.

Edited by jetscrazey
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Tannenbaum took a pretty complete roster that was built with the help of Mangini, and ruined it within 3 years after Mangini left and Rex came.  Tanny basically thinks he's playing Madden, overpaying for big names, drafting guys with good measurables but low football IQ, and completely ignoring the bottom half of the roster.  Lack of depth was a huge problem towards the end of the Tanny era.

He's a good cap guy, but a middle of the road GM at best.  Give me Maccagnan over him any day.

I love how Mangini gets all the credit, why isn't mangini working in a FO?  the team was getting older and more expensive, changes needed to be made and they were happening but the owner panicked after 2012 and foolishly fired him and brought in Idzik.

 

Mac looks great TODAY, at this time in 2006 or 2009 no one was whining about Tannenbaum either.  I love Mac but he had a pretty easy job w/ a top 5 pick and the incredible amount of cap room.

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I'm only offering my opinion on what I see happening now with the Dolphins and comparing it to what took place with the Jets when Tanny was here.  The fact is I'm saying it because I feel it's good for us.

There are a lot of similarities whether NYJUNC wants to acknowledge it or not.  Huge contract to QB that hasn't proven a thing (Sanchez/Tannehil).  Big contracts to players with controversial backgrounds (Holmes/Suh).  High priced stars and no middle class leading to no depth (as does his history of trading away picks).  Lots of media leaks and players talking behind coaches backs leading to a cancerous locker room.  That happened under Tanny when he was with the Jets which led to his firing.  It's happening how that he's with Miami.   Am I missing something?

mark had proved plenty, he proved a tam can win big with him.  the problem wasn't the contract, it was allowing all the talent around him to leave and not replace them.  Both contracts were structured so the teams had easy outs after 2 years.

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This write up in SI is pretty interesting.  And I believe it.  Dysfunction on a team starts at the top.  The Dolphin's owner (Stephen Ross) is VERY similar to Woody in that regard.  At least Woody had the stones to admit he was over his head and brought in Wolf and Casserly to help right the ship...

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/10/06/nfl-owners-stephen-ross-joe-philbin-dolphins

 

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I'm only offering my opinion on what I see happening now with the Dolphins and comparing it to what took place with the Jets when Tanny was here.  The fact is I'm saying it because I feel it's good for us.

There are a lot of similarities whether NYJUNC wants to acknowledge it or not.  Huge contract to QB that hasn't proven a thing (Sanchez/Tannehil).  Big contracts to players with controversial backgrounds (Holmes/Suh).  High priced stars and no middle class leading to no depth (as does his history of trading away picks).  Lots of media leaks and players talking behind coaches backs leading to a cancerous locker room.  That happened under Tanny when he was with the Jets which led to his firing.  It's happening how that he's with Miami.   Am I missing something?

we didn't have depth? in 2009 we lost:

Kris Jenkins

Leon washington

arguably our 2 most important players on both sides of the ball to that point.

we also had Pace out early, lost Ellis for a game

in 2010 we lost Jenkins again, lost Leonhard, lost woody, Mangold left the first NE game early and we won going away w/o him, played w/o Holmes for 4 games, had Cotch hurt, Pace missed many games, revis missed games, etc..

 

we had depth, later on when we were paying the bill for the high priced players we didn't have depth but he would have rebuilt it.

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Mike T and Rex gave us the best 2 years that this franchise has seen in a long time, and I will be grateful for that. I have no ill will towards them.  Also, remember with that success, the team was in a win-now mode; so you could argue (although it didn't work out) that Mike's plan for holding the team worked out okay for 2 years.  Also, Rex and Mike were well suited for each other.  Mike knew how to hold the team together for a few years with mostly veterans, and Rex gave the team swagger (albeit with a lot of smoke and mirrors) and could coach up/motivate veterans.  The worked well with each other - at least at first.

Miami has some veteran talent (at least on defense) but they totally underachieve.  Philbin was terrible and so are the coaches on defense.  I don't know how much authority Mike had on the HC at least until this year, but it seems to me that firing your coach after 4 weeks isn't a great idea.  You are likely not going to get you 'dream' coach until the season is over (unless he is the guy you handed the rains too) - so the season is likely lost; your interim coach might just be good enough to win you out of the top 10 picks.  The other problem is that Mike has not shown the ability to build through the draft and that is what Miami needs.  Too many holes to fill and too little depth.  Also, his track record with coaches (leaving Shotty there too long, etc.) has not been great,  Not sure he is the guy you bring in to rebuild the team.

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Revisionist Jets history repeats itself, Pac as tragedy, nyjunc as farce.

we knew going into 2012 we didn't have cap room but room would be available post 2012.  do you guys think idzik was a genius that cleaned up the cap? he made simple moves that would have been made no matter who the GM was but we fired Tannenbaum for Idzik and it was a disaster.  Tannebaum had built multiple SB contenders but let's forget that and throw the guy away at the first sign of trouble.  that is what all the top franchises do, right?

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Picking Brick and Mangold in 2006 were good picks, but again how much did Mangini have to do with it?

The Revis pick was all Bradway.  Bradway basically put his reputation on the line to trade up for him.  David Harris the only other pick of note.

After 2007 the drafts were horrible.

The Mangold pick was stupid luck. They cut Mawae and headed into the draft with no center. Then a true first round grade center is available when we pick at the bottom of round 1. No one picked him before us and we didn't trade up even 1 slot for a position we were desperate to fill. Waiting for him to fall to the Jets was no smarter than waiting for Favre to fall to us in '91. He was also locked up for 5 years at $2M, with no holdouts/renegotiations, making a GM's job in managing the position much easier for half a decade.

Eventually, the piper (or in this case, the player) must be paid in line with his worth. It's a lot harder to keep a team together and continue to bring in high priced free agents when a center makes $8M instead of $2M, when the game's best CB makes $12-16M instead of $4M, when Cromartie makes $8M instead of $1M, and the cost to keep Holmes is $9M per with $20M in guarantees instead of $700K with no guarantees. Even the high-priced players who were brought in (Pace, Scott, Jenkins, etc.) in don't continue to have the cheaper year-1 cap numbers for the duration of their contracts. 

To make all that (mega-spending to retain existing players) work, you really need to hit on draft picks to replace money that can't now be spent elsewhere, to have more than leftovers/UDFA-level depth, which of course didn't happen and is another discussion entirely.

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we knew going into 2012 we didn't have cap room but room would be available post 2012.  do you guys think idzik was a genius that cleaned up the cap? he made simple moves that would have been made no matter who the GM was but we fired Tannenbaum for Idzik and it was a disaster.  Tannebaum had built multiple SB contenders but let's forget that and throw the guy away at the first sign of trouble.  that is what all the top franchises do, right?

"At the first sign of trouble"? He had the big chair for seven years. Stay golden, nyjunc.

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"At the first sign of trouble"? He had the big chair for seven years. Stay golden, nyjunc.

we had just come off 2 title game apps, we hadn't had a losing season since 2007 and the first one we have since then we fire the GM.  You think Pitt does that? NYG? etc...

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they don't give up on people and they don't listen to their fanbase.  if they did NYG has 2 less SBs as NY fans wanted Coughlin AND Eli gone heading into 2007 and 2011.

This is nothing but narrative. The Giants won the Super Bowl Reese's first year there. They won another one 4 years later. The Steelers won a ring 5 years into Colbert's tenure after making the postseason 3 of his first 4 years there. In other words, both of your examples had rings under their belt in less than the amount of Tannenbaum's entire tenure. That's why they still have jobs, not because of people complaining on the Internet or whatever romanticized concept of loyalty you've developed for yourself.

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I love how Mangini gets all the credit, why isn't mangini working in a FO?  the team was getting older and more expensive, changes needed to be made and they were happening but the owner panicked after 2012 and foolishly fired him and brought in Idzik.

 

Mac looks great TODAY, at this time in 2006 or 2009 no one was whining about Tannenbaum either.  I love Mac but he had a pretty easy job w/ a top 5 pick and the incredible amount of cap room.

I agree with you on this. It wasn't hard for Mac to decide on who to cut, their contracts were designed to cut them. Leo fell right in his lap (no brainer pick). Let's see how the rest of the draft turns out?

Trading for Marshall took some balls after what we went through with Holmes. (So far great). The real homeruns were bringing Revis home & getting Skrine and Gilchrist. Carpenter has been awesome too. It's easy to spend money in the NFL but you have to make the right choices. He overpaid for Harris but he had NO CHOICE, there was nothing available in free agency & through the 1st 4 games, Harris is a true follow me leader, plays hurt, gives 110% always. Cromartie @ 7 million I think was a mistake, but he's cuttable with no salary cap ramifications after the season.

 

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